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SPECULATION: Devon Corporation and New/Sea Mauville

Kyriaki

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In the storage room of Sea Mauville there are a bunch of Nuggets lying around, but among them is

A dead skitty


I wasn't even sure what it was at first. I thought it was some sort of washed up doll someone lost, and even when someone came to pick it up their lines were rather ambiguous (at least in my language translation it was hard to tell whether the NPC was referring to a living thing or not)

It's not the first time the games mentioned Pokemon death, but the first time there was actually a dead body.

How did the skitty end up in there? Why did GF make the players find a dead body?

Since the issue of the skitty doll is taken care of, I changed the title.

EDIT: Brought back this thread because there's never enough Hoenn.

Also, if there's any speculation about the possible monopoly going on in Hoenn, feel free to add ideas.
 
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Neosquid

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

....wait what. I thought that was just a skitty doll. Did I not pay enough attention? Not unusual of me...
 

The Outrage

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

I have no idea why people keep saying that's a dead Skitty, especially if they've read the Sea Mauville Letters.

The man who picks up "Takao" is Cozmo Sr (he is called Raizoh by his nephew, and the documents in the facility refer to a Raizoh Cozmo--though the first name was always cut off). If you read the associated letters from Cozmo Jr. (aka Takao Cozmo), you learn of how the deplorable working conditions at Sea Mauville destroyed Cozmo Sr.'s marriage, leading to his divorce. Takao gave his father a "Hi Skitty" doll (play on Hello Kitty) to remember him by. Here are the associated letters leading up to and after the divorce (Letters 4 - 7):

Letter 4:
"Dear Daddy,
How are you? You aren’t working too hard, are you? You never come home anymore. I’m worried if you’re OK. Mommy goes out with her friends a lot. It seems like fun, so I guess she’s doing OK. The Shelgon that you gave me evolved the other day. But I liked it better when it was a Shelgon and it looked like a Meteorite. Salamence was kind of a letdown, so I asked a friend to trade it for his Solrock. I’m sorry, Daddy. I know it was a present, but I think Solrock is cooler. When it gets dark tonight, I’m going to look at the stars again. I’ll think of you when I do.
- Takao Cozmo”

Letter 5:
"Dear Daddy,
I was really, really happy to get to meet you the other day. It was so fun playing together again, and going to see the star show, too, even if it was just the two of us. It was sad that Mommy couldn’t go, and even more sad when you and Mommy fought that night. I’ll study hard, just like you told me, and I’ll be a good boy, so don’t fight. But let me keep watching the stars, even if I have to do all my homework, too. When I grow up, I want to be a professor and study the stars.
- Takao Cozmo”

Letter 6:
"Dear Daddy,
Thank you for writing to me. I’m doing really well here, so please don’t worry about me. I hope I’ll see you again someday. I dream about it all the time. I brought the telescope you bought me to our new house. Please don’t work too hard, Daddy. I hope you are OK. I will always, always love the stars, and I will always, always love you.
- Takao Cozmo
P.S. I’ll give you my Hi Skitty doll. Please take care of it for me.”

Letter 7:
"It looked like another letter, but it’s a photo. There’s a little boy holding a telescope, with a woman beside him, looking bored."

The Hi Skitty doll is the last thing that Cozmo Sr. had of his son. Who knows if they ever really saw each other again after that? But judging by the fact that he calls Hi Skitty by his son's name, its clear that he turned that doll into a surrogate for his son, especially since amongst all the gold, the Hi Skitty doll was what he was referring to when he told his nephew about the lost treasure in Sea Mauville.

There was no dead Skitty, it was a doll, and its much sadder than a creepy old man claiming a corpse.
 

MTPetey

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

Not sure what language you play it in, but in the American English version they very clearly state that it is a Skitty doll. In one of the other rooms you find a number of letters written by prof. Cosmo when he was a kid to his estranged father. In one of the letters he mentions that he sent his dad a Skitty doll. The old guy that collects the doll, referring to it as the hidden treasure in Sea Mauville, is very clearly Prof. Cosmo's father.
 

Kyriaki

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

I have no idea why people keep saying that's a dead Skitty, especially if they've read the Sea Mauville Letters.

The man who picks up "Takao" is Cozmo Sr. If you read the associated letters from Cozmo Jr. (aka Takao Cozmo), you learn of how the deplorable working conditions at Sea Mauville destroyed Cozmo Sr.'s marriage, leading to his divorce. Takao gave his father a "Hi Skitty" doll (play on Hello Kitty) to remember him by. Here are the associated letters leading up to and after the divorce (Letters 4 - 7):

Letter 4:
"Dear Daddy,
How are you? You aren’t working too hard, are you? You never come home anymore. I’m worried if you’re OK. Mommy goes out with her friends a lot. It seems like fun, so I guess she’s doing OK. The Shelgon that you gave me evolved the other day. But I liked it better when it was a Shelgon and it looked like a Meteorite. Salamence was kind of a letdown, so I asked a friend to trade it for his Solrock. I’m sorry, Daddy. I know it was a present, but I think Solrock is cooler. When it gets dark tonight, I’m going to look at the stars again. I’ll think of you when I do.
- Takao Cozmo”

Letter 5:
"Dear Daddy,
I was really, really happy to get to meet you the other day. It was so fun playing together again, and going to see the star show, too, even if it was just the two of us. It was sad that Mommy couldn’t go, and even more sad when you and Mommy fought that night. I’ll study hard, just like you told me, and I’ll be a good boy, so don’t fight. But let me keep watching the stars, even if I have to do all my homework, too. When I grow up, I want to be a professor and study the stars.
- Takao Cozmo”

Letter 6:
"Dear Daddy,
Thank you for writing to me. I’m doing really well here, so please don’t worry about me. I hope I’ll see you again someday. I dream about it all the time. I brought the telescope you bought me to our new house. Please don’t work too hard, Daddy. I hope you are OK. I will always, always love the stars, and I will always, always love you.
- Takao Cozmo
P.S. I’ll give you my Hi Skitty doll. Please take care of it for me.”

Letter 7:
"It looked like another letter, but it’s a photo. There’s a little boy holding a telescope, with a woman beside him, looking bored."

The Hi Skitty doll is the last thing that Cozmo Sr. had of his son. Who knows if they ever really saw each other again after that? But judging by the fact that he calls Hi Skitty by his son's name, its clear that he turned that doll into a surrogate for his son.

There was no dead Skitty, it was a doll, and its much sadder than a creepy old man claiming a corpse.
So it is a doll, right? I thought it was a doll at first but everyone on pokemon fansites were saying it was a dead skitty that I was getting confused.
 

The Outrage

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

So it is a doll, right? I thought it was a doll at first but everyone on pokemon fansites were saying it was a dead skitty that I was getting confused.
Why wouldn't it be a doll? I honestly don't know how anyone comes to that conclusion if they've read the letters (or the fact that the Skitty clearly is not bones as one would expect) other than their thirst for "darker and edgier". Ironically, they miss an even deeper, sadder, and more mature story by doing so.

If you thought Cozmo's letters were sad, its even sadder what the doll implies considering his father seems to be using it as a surrogate for his son, calling it his most valuable treasure, and losing it as well when the facility sank. Raizoh does not get any sort of happy ending--we see a broken old man who seems to have lost touch with reality, and I'm kind of upset we don't even get to see any resolution with Prof. Cozmo. I mean, would Cozmo have had such an amicable relationship with Steven and work with Devon Co. if he knew?
 

Kyriaki

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

So it is a doll, right? I thought it was a doll at first but everyone on pokemon fansites were saying it was a dead skitty that I was getting confused.
Why wouldn't it be a doll? I honestly don't know how anyone comes to that conclusion if they've read the letters (or the fact that the Skitty clearly is not bones as one would expect) other than their thirst for "darker and edgier". Ironically, they miss an even deeper, sadder, and more mature story by doing so.

If you thought Cozmo's letters were sad, its even sadder what the doll implies considering his father seems to be using it as a surrogate for his son, calling it his most valuable treasure, and losing it as well when the facility sank. Raizoh does not get any sort of happy ending--we see a broken old man who seems to have lost touch with reality, and I'm kind of upset we don't even get to see any resolution with Prof. Cozmo. I mean, would Cozmo have had such an amicable relationship with Steven and work with Devon Co. if he knew?
Which leads to another question - did Prof Cozmo lose touch with his father altogether? I mean, both of them are alive; the Sea Mauville project got cancelled altogether, and Prof Cozmo is now famous as a leading scientist. I'm pretty sure his name would have been on the news a lot, especially with the Aqua/Magma plot kidnapping case. Has Prof Cozmo not actively searched his father? Has his father not looked for his son?

And about Steven, I think Cozmo knows that Steven has nothing to do regarding what happend at Sea Mauville. If we consider Cozmo to have sent letters to his father at the age of ten, then the Sea Mauville project was going on approximately 30 years ago (Prof Cozmo is 40). Steven (25) wasn't even born yet at that time or either too young to even be a part of it.
 

MTPetey

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

Sometimes situations aren't so black and white. Cozmo Sr. obviously neglected his family for quite a long time while concentrating on Sea Mauville. Cozmo Sr. may be afraid to meet up with his son again in fear of his son holding a grudge for him not being there 30 years ago. He may be afraid his son is ashamed of him, and thinks he's a failure because Sea Mauville failed, which may be worse. Prof. Cozmo may actually be mad at his father and not want to seek him out, or has come face-to-face with him since those letters were sent, and dismissed him (trying to think of a better word but its 6 a.m. here). I've known people with screwed up family's, and shit runs deep. Kids who want nothing more than for daddy to come home often grow into men who resent their fathers. People who have screwed up relationships with people important to them, would often times rather keep wondering if that person hates them than actually find out. That Skitty doll is a reminder to Cozmo Sr of a time when his son truly, unconditionally loved him, and also as a reminder of everything he's screwed up in his life. And if I were him, I'd never let go of it. Not for a second.
 

The Outrage

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

Even if Steven didn't do anything, its kind of hard to like a guy carrying the legacy of the Devon Corporation, and whose riches were built from said abuses, and its kind of weird that he'd even work with Devon Corporation. Steven may not be involved, but the company sure is.

Cozmo Jr. seems like he still loved his father by the end of the seven letters, but who knows what happened? His mother certainly didn't like him, and if he'd been kept away from his father due to his father's work (while he did neglect them, I really wouldn't put the blame on him; if you read the mantra for Sea Mauville, they basically say "no breaks" and even provide energy drinks to make sure no one needs one) he'd only have his mother's side of the story. The fact that he holds no resentment at least to the Devon Corporation makes me think that Cozmo Jr. never heard (or accepted) his father's side of the story as he grew older.

Then there's also the fact that Raizoh Cozmo seemed out of touch with reality. I've seen people blame it on old age, but mental illness isn't a normal process of aging. Perhaps the external stressors of both his job and losing his family, and getting fired, led to Cozmo's current state of mind. It doesn't help that he was encouraged to drink that Energy drink with Seviper Extract. Who knows what that could have done. Maybe he could have had a chance to meet his son? But at that point, he's already replaced his son with Hi Skitty.

And who knows how many years after the divorce that Raizoh Cozmo still worked at Sea Mauville--Takao clearly did a lot in his life, but what if his father missed important mile stones like high school or university graduation? Becoming a scientist is very important to Takao, so I doubt it would be easily forgivable.
 

Silktree

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

Personally, I find it hard to care about Prof. Cozmo's past when he looks like a generic scientist (despite the fact that he was given a unique design for the TCG and anime) and doesn't really stand out. Suffice to say that it was Zinnia who gave the Stone family a piece of her mind about the use of Infinity Energy, whereas Takao showed no hint of a deeper backstory. It's hard to put Sea Mauville into a proper context.
 

Kyriaki

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Re: Question: Pokemon Death

Even if Steven didn't do anything, its kind of hard to like a guy carrying the legacy of the Devon Corporation, and whose riches were built from said abuses, and its kind of weird that he'd even work with Devon Corporation. Steven may not be involved, but the company sure is.
You know what, I'm starting to think that it's not that Prof. Cozmo doesn't know or isn't mad at Steven - it's that he can't get mad at him.
1. Like I mentioned, Steven himself has nothing to do with a project that happened 30 years ago. What Steven thinks about it is another issue.
2. Devon is involved pretty much everywhere, especially in technology. Prof. Cozmo did request Devon's help in Episode Delta to create a device that would send the oncoming meteoroid to another dimension. With Devon being the biggest corporation in Hoenn and basically the source for all sorts of funds and supports, it would be essential for Prof. Cozmo to maintain a good relationship with them through Steven. Where else would he be able to get large amount of research funds? For all we know, the Space Center could be working on large amount of funds from Devon.
3. It's possible Steven/President Stone promised he'd support all of Prof. Cozmo's research as a way of repayment. I know this might sound stupid, but again, Prof. Cozmo is the leading scientist in the field of space tech - in the long run, it will benefit Devon.
 

Kallyle

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I agree with the fact that Cozmo can't be mad at Steven, but I do think that he might resent Devon Stone (the company president) for what he did to his family. In fact, I'm inclined to believe that even Steven somewhat disagrees with the company's more deplorable practices, judging by his line of "What choice do we have?" in regards to Zinnia's question about the dimensional shifter that was made from AZ's ultimate weapon.

Based on this, I hope that there's a DLC called "Episode Devon," where Steven calls out his old man, and stops his evil practices once and for all! Not without help from Looker, of course.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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It's not like Mr. Stone became rich by abusing his workers. Sea Mauville was just a big project, a big failure. From documents, the idea wasn't even from Mr. Stone, but Wattson's. Certainly the project caused a big upset, leaving several people unemployed and all of this, but it was 30 years ago. Maybe the company (and Wattson as well) has been working for all those years to try and compensate everyone for the trouble caused, and now Sea Mauville is remembered as just an old big mistake. Resentment for it can't last forever.
 

The Outrage

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It's not like Mr. Stone became rich by abusing his workers. Sea Mauville was just a big project, a big failure. From documents, the idea wasn't even from Mr. Stone, but Wattson's. Certainly the project caused a big upset, leaving several people unemployed and all of this, but it was 30 years ago. Maybe the company (and Wattson as well) has been working for all those years to try and compensate everyone for the trouble caused, and now Sea Mauville is remembered as just an old big mistake. Resentment for it can't last forever.
Of course Mr. Stone didn't, his grandfather probably did. And it wasn't Wattson's idea--Wattson was just the Project Leader. He could have been appointed that without it being his idea, and he was the Project Leader of New Mauville. From the sounds of it as well, it was the shutting down of New Mauville that had negative repercussions to all the Mauville Projects, leading to Sea Mauville's closure.

Also, where are people getting "30 years ago" for the time frame for the Sea Mauville events?

I agree with the fact that Cozmo can't be mad at Steven, but I do think that he might resent Devon Stone (the company president) for what he did to his family.
Where are you getting Devon as his first name? People usually name corporations after their last name. We find out that Mr. Stone succeeded his grandfather, so for all we know, he is his maternal grandfather and his mother married someone with the name "Stone" since there's an entire generation unaccounted for.

Based on this, I hope that there's a DLC called "Episode Devon," where Steven calls out his old man, and stops his evil practices once and for all! Not without help from Looker, of course.
His father is Joseph Stone. The one who was morally ambiguous was Mr. Stone's grandfather--aka Steven's great-grandfather. I doubt he's alive considering Mr. Stone is 52 years old.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Of course Mr. Stone didn't, his grandfather probably did. And it wasn't Wattson's idea--Wattson was just the Project Leader. He could have been appointed that without it being his idea, and he was the Project Leader of New Mauville. From the sounds of it as well, it was the shutting down of New Mauville that had negative repercussions to all the Mauville Projects, leading to Sea Mauville's closure.

Also, where are people getting "30 years ago" for the time frame for the Sea Mauville events?
Not sure if it's just my translation, but I understood that the project failed because of Wattson's idealizations that couldn't be put in practice.
And the estimations comes from Cozmo's age: he's 40 and he was a kid at that time.

Based on this, I hope that there's a DLC called "Episode Devon," where Steven calls out his old man, and stops his evil practices once and for all! Not without help from Looker, of course.
His father is Joseph Stone. The one who was morally ambiguous was Mr. Stone's grandfather--aka Steven's great-grandfather. I doubt he's alive considering Mr. Stone is 52 years old.
He could be 85 and alive. And why people assume there were evil practices? The myth that big companies are evil by the mere fact of existing?
 

The Outrage

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He could be 85 and alive. And why people assume there were evil practices? The myth that big companies are evil by the mere fact of existing?
Mr. Stone's grandfather, alive at 85? That would put grandfather to grandson 33 years apart, considering that Mr. Stone and Steven are 27 years apart, I'd give it at least 40 years between Stone and his grandfather, especially since 33 years would mean both Mr. Stone's grandfather and his parent had children in their mid-teens, or at least one of them in their early (as in ~13-14) teens.

And what do you mean why do people assume the practices were evil? Did you look at Sea Mauville? There was a list of company values that basically amounted to "Work hard, no breaks unless you're retired or fired" and the fact Sea Mauville employees were given energy drinks to keep them from getting tired and needing a break. Even if you assume Cozmo Sr. was a workaholic, it was clear it wasn't by choice. It was work or be fired. Then there was branding Wattson as a traitor for exposing the environmental impact New Mauville would have, halting its production.

That's not even touching on Devon Corporation adapting ancient technology that we knew ran on the life energy of Pokemon. Even if they found a non-lethal way of harnessing it, you can't ignore the above examples. Maybe Game Freak is playing on the "Evil big corporations" trope, but we have concrete examples in-game.
 
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Ziggy Stardust

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He could be 85 and alive. And why people assume there were evil practices? The myth that big companies are evil by the mere fact of existing?
Mr. Stone's grandfather, alive at 85? That would put grandfather to grandson 33 years apart, considering that Mr. Stone and Steven are 27 years apart, I'd give it at least 40 years between Stone and his grandfather, especially since 33 years would mean both Mr. Stone's grandfather and his parent had children in their mid-teens, or at least one of them in their early (as in ~13-14) teens.
Sorry, I confused myself and somehow I was thinking at "Mr. Stone's father/Steven's grandfather" instead of "Mr. Stone's grandfather"
 

DasManiac

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It should also be pointed out that never once is it stated that Devon Corp isn't using the life energy of Pokemon. They mention that's what the Ultimate Weapon did but they conveniently never say they aren't doing the same. It should also be noted that such technology is probably illegal. I'd say the evidence is stacked against the Devon Corp. They were perfectly willing to send a large meteor to another universe, to a different Earth with no qualms about whether or not the people of that universe had the technology to deal with it. What really makes them any different from Cyrus or Lysandre?
 

The Outrage

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It should also be pointed out that never once is it stated that Devon Corp isn't using the life energy of Pokemon. They mention that's what the Ultimate Weapon did but they conveniently never say they aren't doing the same.
It's outright stated they still use it. Mr. Stone mentioned the Devon Parts you saved were part of a motor in the Submarine Explorer 1 that allowed it to use Infinity Energy. They explicitly state that rockets (even the one before their plan to use the Dimensional Shifter) were powered by Infinity Energy.

It should also be noted that such technology is probably illegal.
"Probably illegal" is your subjective opinion--its clear it isn't, since the Devon Corporation are openly using it. That's why I think the modern-day Devon Co. found a non-lethal way of harnessing the energy. In DPPt, we learn Team Galactic was learning to harness the power released from Pokemon Evolution (according to Prof. Rowan). That plot may not have gone anywhere, but I wouldn't be surprised if +MEvo!Devon succeeded where -MEvo!Galactic failed.

I'd say the evidence is stacked against the Devon Corp. They were perfectly willing to send a large meteor to another universe, to a different Earth with no qualms about whether or not the people of that universe had the technology to deal with it. What really makes them any different from Cyrus or Lysandre?
It's stated very clearly in-game that they didn't know that the dimensional shifter would take it to another dimension--just that it would take it away from hitting Earth. The dimensional shifter is part of the warp-panel technology that the games use. It's only Zinnia that starts calling them out on this, and of course they wouldn't believe her. You have a 6-mile diameter meteoroid about to hit your planet, and some random girl tells you that maybe there's another Hoenn and maybe they don't have the technology to handle it. That's a lot of assumptions right there with no concrete evidence. Obviously we know its true, but from the perspective of the game characters, there's no reason to entertain such faulty reasoning that maybe they're about to destroy another planet when definitely the current one is in danger. Zinnia doesn't even propose any alternative to sway them other than condescendingly calling Steven and the scientists uncreative and we all know how her plan almost failed. I don't know, Zinnia, maybe it would have been smart to have a contingency plan.

This isn't even touching on the fact that Zinnia knew full well what Groudon and Kyogre would be like (whereas Maxie and Archie underestimated their power) and still decided to use them to awaken Rayquaza, when she had a perfectly valid Plan-B that at worst was just theft. She had the choice between theft and bringing an end-of-the-world disaster to avert another end-of-the-world disaster, and she didn't choose the former until the PC put a stop to the latter.

And to answer the question of how it makes them any different from Cyrus and Lysandre? No one involved in the Mosdeep Space Centre plan actually knew they were about to destroy another world, and all Zinnia provided them was conjecture. Cyrus and Lysandre were fully aware of all the lives they'd destroy even if they thought it was "for the greater good".

The Devon Corporation had a dark past, but I'm not to say the present corporation is as dark as it once was? And then we're all here looking the other way at the crimes Zinnia's committed.
 

Kyriaki

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Also, where are people getting "30 years ago" for the time frame for the Sea Mauville events?
Prof. Cozmo's official age is stated to be 40.
He sent letters to his father when the Sea Mauville project was ongoing when he was a kid. (And the last photo certainly states it features a boy with a telescope)
If we assume that it would be around when he's ten, give or take a few years, the Sea Mauville project was ongoing at least 30 years ago. We don't know when it started, or when it ended. Just that it happened then.
 
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