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DiamondShipping vs. ElderShipping

Which ship do you prefer?

  • DiamondShipping (Giovanni/Delia)

    Votes: 10 41.7%
  • ElderShipping (Samuel/Delia)

    Votes: 14 58.3%

  • Total voters
    24
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Ket Makura said:
Can't one be a believer in both?

I am a DiamondShipper in the past (as it, it has happened, but the relationship is over), and an ElderShipper in the present.
I like this notion myself. Although I admit that whenever I see the word 'Diamondshipping,' the first thing that enters my head is the scene in "Empire Strikes Back" where Luke learns that Vader is his father.

I see Eldershipping as being a natural progression for the characters of Oak and Delia. The picture of her with Oak and Spencer Hale in the third movie made me assume that Delia and Samuel have known each other for many years, and probably went from being neighbors to friends. Friendship to romance seems a logical, natural next step in their relationship.
 
I don't have strong feelings about either of these ships, but I suppose I would lean more towards Diamondshipping a majority of the time. Maybe it's the dark/angsty feel that's more appealing. Though Eldershipping could potentially be pretty twisted too. Satoshi finding out that Ookido is his father would be shocking enough, but add to that everything that happened in the fourth movie and you've got some pretty bizarre stuff going on.

"Satoshi, you know that boy you met in the forest with Serebii? That was me from the past. Oh, and after I went back I grew up and banged your mom. Sorry I never told you before, son."

Poor kid would probably have a heart attack.
 
Well, yeah, he probably would. But like myself, a lot of Eldershippers don't buy into the theory that Oak is really Ash's dad. I just like the thought of Delia and Sam together.
 
I ignore Diamondshipping and Eldershipping. They don't bother me. I just find them to be boring.

Like others said, Diamondshipping is too cliché. As for Eldershipping, I can see the evidence, but it doesn't interest me. I consider Delia and Sam to be nothing more than close friends.

Years ago I was convinced that Lance was Ash's father. I now no longer think so for two reasons:

1) Cliché. ("OMGZ! My dad is the world's greatest trainer!")
2) Lance and Ash have met and clearly did not know each other originally.

At this point, the only character I feel could possibly be Ash's father is Silver from the Moltres special.

I'm getting off-topic. Sorry ^_^;;

Anyway, if I had to go with one of these 'ships, it'd be Eldershipping.
 
Personally, Eldershipping bores me to tears. While I may not have strong feelings towards Diamondshipping, I do find its dark, angsty element rather appealing. Therefore, Diamondshipping it is.
 
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I really don't like either of these shippings. I prefer if Satoshi's father remains unnamed.

Diamondshipping did seem possible to me for a past relationship between Hanako and Sakaki, but I seriously don't think anymore it would exist b/c Satoshi would recognize his father, or at least know his father's name (because of the reference to his father earlier). Sakaki can't be his father (in my point of view) because Satoshi has already met Sakaki and made no connection.

Besides, in the video games I'm pretty certain that Silver (not the guy from the Moltres episode) is Sakaki's son; in the Special Manga, Silver is definately Sakaki's son; and Silver makes his appearance in the Anime as well: in the opening for The Legend of Thunder; Kenta fights him. Since Silver hasn't properly been introduced in the anime, we can only conjecture that he is Sakaki's son; but based on the other 2 references, this is the only meta-hint or hint or evidence whatsoever of Sakaki having a son at all.

Eldershipping is just to creepy in my view to exist: Ookido-Hakase is Shigeru's grandfather and was Hanako's teacher (reference: Lord of the Unown Tower). Plus, Satoshi and Ookido adventured together in A Timeless Encounter, and I really don't think that that would go over well with the Anime writers.

Finally, I prefer his father left unknown because that allows us to continue to conjecture who he is. Plus, that means that my fanfiction isn't contradicted, which has a new character as Satoshi's father; his name being Master Kumori, aka Fade, who is a Dark-type Gym Leader in my fanfiction.

But all and all, I like the idea of Sakaki being Satoshi's relative at least, and in my fandom, he's Satoshi's cousin-once-removed (like the relationship between Frodo and Bilbo), that is, he's Satoshi's father's cousin.
 
Ashura Kumori said:
I really don't like either of these shippings. I prefer if Satoshi's father remains unnamed.
Both can work without them being Ash's father. I see ElderShipping as happening after Ash's father was no longer around and even Pokémon Live has someone else as Ash's father.

Diamondshipping did seem possible to me for a past relationship between Hanako and Sakaki, but I seriously don't think anymore it would exist b/c Satoshi would recognize his father, or at least know his father's name (because of the reference to his father earlier). Sakaki can't be his father (in my point of view) because Satoshi has already met Sakaki and made no connection.
Ash never met Giovanni. Giovanni was away for the Gym Battle, (which DiamondShippers see as suspicious,) and they never came face to face in Mewtwo Returns. Even Brock only thinks that an ice sculpture of Giovanni "looks familiar". (Final Hoenn contest)

Besides, in the video games I'm pretty certain that Silver (not the guy from the Moltres episode) is Sakaki's son; in the Special Manga, Silver is definately Sakaki's son; and Silver makes his appearance in the Anime as well: in the opening for The Legend of Thunder; Kenta fights him. Since Silver hasn't properly been introduced in the anime, we can only conjecture that he is Sakaki's son; but based on the other 2 references, this is the only meta-hint or hint or evidence whatsoever of Sakaki having a son at all.
Gary has a sister called Daisy in all formats except the anime where he has no known siblings and Misty has a sister called Daisy. Just because one of the mangas expanded upon a line in the games doesn't mean that a character who has has one cameo is related to Giovanni. Plus, there's nothing to stop the guy having two kids. I actually have a (fanon) theory that Ash and Silver are half-brothers, (through Delia. :p).

Eldershipping is just to creepy in my view to exist: Ookido-Hakase is Shigeru's grandfather and was Hanako's teacher (reference: Lord of the Unown Tower). Plus, Satoshi and Ookido adventured together in A Timeless Encounter, and I really don't think that that would go over well with the Anime writers.
It would be an interesting twist if Sammy did turn out to be Ash's father and I don't see how the anime writers would hate that idea. But really, Professor Oak doesn't have to be Ash's father. As I said above, I see their relationship growing after Delia became a single mother.

In case I haven't made my point clear, Delia could have had a relationship with either and not had a child from it. And different forms of dub-canon have even confirmed both without giving any reason that either should have a relationship to Ash. Besides, the writers are hardly going to care about your fanfiction. Just amit that it is fanon like most DiamondShippers do about their ship.
 
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I personally like Eldershipping better with our without Ash being Oak's son. Older!Delia and Oak make a cute couple and there's a bunch of little cannon moments hinting that they're close. Diamondshipping’s interesting in its own right and it has more dynamic background-story potential because of the “Small-Town Country Girl/Future Crime Boss” pairing as opposed to the “Small-Town Housewife/Old Next Door Neighbor." Diamondshipping just doesn’t float my boat. I think that some of the angst that could come out of it, unless it was handled well, would be sort of a bad thing, because I just can't see something dramatically changing in Ash's character just because of the news about an evil father, biological or stepfather, who, like FabuVinny pointed out, he’s never met.

Giovanni’s probably got a whole clan of illegitimate children running around, but I don’t think Ash is one of them. If Ash wasn’t Gio’s kid and found out Delia did have an affair with Gio, Ash’d probably just scratch his head and wonder, but stay out of Delia’s personal business unless Giovanni was hurting her in some way or if he thought that Gio would. Even if Pokemon did a Star Wars and revealed that Gio is Ash’s daddy, I think Ash would get over it. His jaw would drop, Oak would nod sympathetically (because if anyone else other than Delia knows who Ash's father is, it's probably Oak), Delia would have a little heart-to-heart talk with her son, and then life would go on. He’d probably be stunned, sure, maybe a little embarrassed or touchy when the subject’s brought up later on, but he wouldn't let it really affect him unless Giovanni started to become more of a problem for Ash and co. Ash seems like a solid character who makes up his mind and then sticks to what he believes is right, and so far his lack of a father hasn't really affected him. I think someone said that Ash's father hasn't been mentioned since episode two. On the other hand, finding out that Professor Oak is his father would probably be a huge OMGWTF??? because Ash knows Oak, they’re practically neighbors, and that would also mean that his rival, the kid he grew up with, is his nephew.

It's great fannon material, but seriously I think Ash’s biological father is most likely some trainer we’ve never heard of before with black hair, the same markings on his cheeks, and maybe a Raichu on his team. Maybe Ash does know exactly who his father is, but it just isn't important enough for him to bring it up. I forget exactly what was said about Ash's father, but I think it was only that it took his father a week or something to reach Viridian City.
 
My idea of Diamondshipping is that Delia and Giovanni are still together (ie, they never split), but are apart to keep Ash safe. Because really, it would be dangerous for all three parties if Ash (or anyone else) knew the truth. It's likely that Gio has a crapload of enemies out there all wanting a chance to kill him, and Ash would make it so much easier. I also have a theory that J&J are really out tracking him to make sure he's safe... it explains so much.
 
One thing I don't get is why people think that Giovanni would care about his son *or* wife/lover. He isn't exactly the most kindhearted person in the show, you know?
 
Gary has a sister called Daisy? In Ono's manga, she's named May.
 
Roses Ablaze said:
One thing I don't get is why people think that Giovanni would care about his son *or* wife/lover. He isn't exactly the most kindhearted person in the show, you know?

Yeah, but who have we really seen him in contact with other than J&J? I mean, anyone would be a jerk if they had to put up with those guys. Besides, it's his son/wife/lover. Not a bunch of faceless underlings. I'm sure he has a heart somewhere... he seems to love his cat, right? So the capacity's there...
 
He's the leader of a criminal organization, dedicating to gaining power by any means necessary with absolutely no limitations, even if it means hurting people and pokemon along the way. That doesn't exactly scream 'kindness' now does it? Besides, if he loves his wife so much, then why did he leave her? Pressure from his mother? She seems to be dead at this point, as if she were alive she'd probably be the one running Team Rocket, not Giovanni. Do you really think she'd let him get away with all those expensive projects and experiments of his?
 
I like musing that Agatha is Madame Boss. If Madame Boss had dreams of doing something other than TR, then Gio could still run TR and she could do something else.

The only issue I have with Diamondshipping still present (opposed to the ship in the past) is that you would think Delia's house would be crawling with cops and under constant surveillance. Also, Gio isn't the only guy rich enough to let Delia live a life of comfort without employment. At least the anime has more "proof" that Hale could be Ash's dad, or at least have also been with Delia -- and he's rich enough to provide decent alimony.
 
Roses Ablaze said:
Besides, if he loves his wife so much, then why did he leave her?
That's mentioned in an earlier post of mine on here from this week.

Basically, in my Diamondshipping canon, they still call each other and visit when Ash is away, but keep it hush-hush from the K-I-D. I'll refer you to my fic "His Father's Eyes," somewhere in the fanfiction forum (I hope), for a good picture of this from Delia's perspective.

I still think he has some capacity to be a loving father... that's the thing I hate about a lot of fanfic writers, they tend to Pidgeyhole him into this two dimensional personification of pure evil.

Also, I've always thought that MB was more of a corrupt entrepreneur than megalomaniac nutjob- personally, I think world domination didn't come into the picture till after Giovanni came round. Maybe a consideration, but not a solid goal.
 
nekusagi-chan said:
I still think he has some capacity to be a loving father... that's the thing I hate about a lot of fanfic writers, they tend to Pidgeyhole him into this two dimensional personification of pure evil.
I guess I can understand that, but I think any good fanfiction takes the writer's intentions into account along with exploring undeveloped aspects of a canon character. The writers of the anime clearly intended Giovanni to be an evil guy and an archetypical villain. I've never seen Giovanni as caring about anybody but himself, and a portrayal of him as a loving father would completely contradict everything else we've learned about him IMO.
Also, I've always thought that MB was more of a corrupt entrepreneur than megalomaniac nutjob- personally, I think world domination didn't come into the picture till after Giovanni came round. Maybe a consideration, but not a solid goal.
That's my impression, too, but that also means that Giovanni further corrupted it - which takes a corrupt person.
 
I'm not doubting he's a corrupt person- he is- but even then, what is there to stop a corrupt person from being a loving father/husband?

Should we start a separate thread for this?
 
If you want to I guess. But someone else'll probably have to pick up as I tire of debates easily.
 
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