Did ORAS do Wally justice?

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Okay everyone who played RSE probably remembered Wally and knew he would be coming back for the remakes. While in RSE he seemingly had a bland personality and he barely appeared, ORAS changed a lot of things, from upgraded visuals to dialogue alterations/additions. Do you guys think that ORAS did this precious child justice, compared to RSE?

 

[HyruleAlpha]

I don't remember how much of a presence he had in RSE. In ORAS, you barely bumped into him. I felt like the other rival was shoved down our throats too much, when I'd rather see more of how Wally was progressing.

 

[Team Gaara]

100% YES~

I love that they not only integrated more of Wally into the story, but that they also dramatically improved on his character. He wasn't just a sickly kid we help catch a Pokemon, hear about from his family (should you so happen to talk to NPCs), and barely ever see until the end of the game; we got to see him grow as a trainer. He got more personality, in that scene of him trying to ask the PC to be his rival, but ultimately falling short. Despite that, when we later see him in Petalburg, it lets us know that he's still working hard, even if we don't battle him right there. Even when his dad has that moment with Norman, it also shows how much better he's doing, even health wise. At that final battle with his FANTABULOSO theme music in the background and his Mega Gallade, he can see that he's really changed and is more confident in himself. Not to mention his appearance at the Battle Maison and his subsequent battles there, which shows that he's pretty much on par with the player and no longer dragging behind. He's even visibly upset when he loses, rather than just thanking the player for their time and afterward mutters to himself about an entire battle strategy.

Even the little things, like having Wally's name engraved on all of the Gym Statues, most of which were before yours, and that short shot of him after stopping Primal Kyogre (or Primal Groudon) showing him farther along in his journey, showed just how much he was growing when you didn't see him or weren't with him. I feel ORAS did a fantastic job with Wally and I'm glad, because I think he'll finally stop being so forgotten by the community.

 

[NoirGrimoir]

I can't remember exactly compared to the original RS, but I felt like he made way fewer appearances in ORAS, which some people might find good, but it did sort of make him really superfluous to me. His final appearance was great, with the new pretty area in victory road, and they somehow made him adorable as hell. So I don't think it was improved, exactly, but it was passable. Basically, they cut him back in ORAS, but what scenes he had they really made count, so in the end it sort of evened out.

 

[Rainami]

wait, you're telling me wally existed in the original rs?

 

[godiego]

Simply put: No he was not done justice. Everyone merely over-hypes his barely expanded role.

 

[The Outrage]

I was a Wally fan in RSE. His dialogue now is nearly exactly the same. I've seen people say that N fans only like him because he's fanservicey--Wally may not be fanservice, but people certainly only like him now because of the better graphics. People couldn't appreciate the subtlety of his character development in RSE, but act as if he was given so much now that models can emote. His only added appearance was in the post-Cave of Origin scene didn't add anything we already didn't know from BuzzNav, the gym statues, or his family. In fact, I'd argue ORAS took away from what made Wally good.

First, Wally wasn't the conventional rival. He was meant to be the guy who looked up to you, who you don't really give much of a second thought in terms of rivals. You know what the big surprise was at the end of Victory Road? Fighting Wally. That post-Cave of Origin scene killed the big reveal that everything else as building up to because you knew he'd be there even if you never played the game before. In my first play through of Sapphire, I honestly thought I was done with the cave when he surprised me.

Second, his father used to be ignorant of Wally's journey. Essentially, Wally defied his father's wishes, he was a sickly kid who ran away with Pokemon. Now, his father just accepts his sickly child running around because he's with his Pokemon (a role that used to be his uncle's). This also deprived his father a chance for character development, where he learns that Wally is grown up and can protect himself. Rather than being a father who was over-protective, he just stands there musing with Norman "Oh look our kids grew up!" Sure, maybe it would have been derivative of what happened with Bianca, but then, Bianca's story was derivative of Wally's.

And that brings me to my third point. I feel like people only hated Wally in Gen III because they were looking for reasons to hate Gen III. It was the first generation we had a non-conventional nice rival, but three generations later, its become the norm and Wally's as accepted as douche rivals like Silver.

 

[Osprey]

He was given focus and an ante-battle 3D model, something that's given only to a select few, along with a pretty nice final fight with his Megallade (even if the Mega Stone kinda came out of nowhere... seriously, where do all the NPC's find those things??). While ORAS didn't give him as much screentime as I wanted, it made the times he was seen more memorable. Of course, the Gen-VI graphics have a lot to do with that.

 

[The Outrage]

He was given focus and an ante-battle 3D model, something that's given only to a select few, along with a pretty nice final fight with his Megallade (even if the Mega Stone kinda came out of nowhere... seriously, where do all the NPC's find those things??). While ORAS didn't give him as much screentime as I wanted, it made the times he was seen more memorable. Of course, the Gen-VI graphics have a lot to do with that.

Everyone who was a Maison partner got a 3D battle sprite. Wanda explained that she found the Galladite after the Cave of Origin event when you retrieve the Gardevoirite from her, so yeah, the NPC's literally just find them on the ground.

 

[Rainami]

I was a Wally fan in RSE. His dialogue now is nearly exactly the same. I've seen people say that N fans only like him because he's fanservicey--Wally may not be fanservice, but people certainly only like him now because of the better graphics. People couldn't appreciate the subtlety of his character development in RSE, but act as if he was given so much now that models can emote. His only added appearance was in the post-Cave of Origin scene didn't add anything we already didn't know from BuzzNav, the gym statues, or his family. In fact, I'd argue ORAS took away from what made Wally good.

First, Wally wasn't the conventional rival. He was meant to be the guy who looked up to you, who you don't really give much of a second thought in terms of rivals. You know what the big surprise was at the end of Victory Road? Fighting Wally. That post-Cave of Origin scene killed the big reveal that everything else as building up to because you knew he'd be there even if you never played the game before. In my first play through of Sapphire, I honestly thought I was done with the cave when he surprised me.

Second, his father used to be ignorant of Wally's journey. Essentially, Wally defied his father's wishes, he was a sickly kid who ran away with Pokemon. Now, his father just accepts his sickly child running around because he's with his Pokemon (a role that used to be his uncle's). This also deprived his father a chance for character development, where he learns that Wally is grown up and can protect himself. Rather than being a father who was over-protective, he just stands there musing with Norman "Oh look our kids grew up!" Sure, maybe it would have been derivative of what happened with Bianca, but then, Bianca's story was derivative of Wally's.

And that brings me to my third point. I feel like people only hated Wally in Gen III because they were looking for reasons to hate Gen III. It was the first generation we had a non-conventional nice rival, but three generations later, its become the norm and Wally's as accepted as douche rivals like Silver.

As implied with my last post, I feel that Wally was portrayed better in ORAS, but it's really just a feeling as I don't really have much solid reasoning behind it. Memories of the original RSE are hazy, just remember never remotely giving a shit about him while I sorta like the dude now. You bring up some solid points...mostly the bit about his not defying his dad in ORAS.

I can address some definite improvements, at least. Aside from obvs grafficks. Firstly, Wally's access to mega evolution makes him feel more special to me. Mega evolution is a special mechanic available to few characters besides the PC, so him being able to mega evolve his Gallade makes him feel less like some-kid-who-randomly-appears-in-victory-road (which was basically what I thought of him before). Secondly, his invitation to the Battle Resort and his appearances there also made me pay attention to him more, even if that is post game.

Really wish the kid appeared more in some way, I didn't really feel like mentioning his role in the Delta Episode as a point since while it technically made me notice his existence more, it was rather pathetic compared to what I expected (and I didn't expect much).

 

[Almonds]

They expanded on his character development, so I'd say yes.

The reason I am obsessed with getting through the Battle Maison Supers is because of Wally's extra character development seen in rematches. (I still haven't unlocked it, but I heard enough about it to feel the need to see for myself)

With his initial relationship with Ralts, and as implied in his profile and dialogues, he is a pokemon lover, and he considers pokemons to be his best friends, and he specifically points out that he wants to win for his friends' sake.

But after the rematches in the post-game

Spoiler

he states about re-raising his team, and there are NPCs talking about a green-haired prince jogging along the Battle Resort beaches with a handful of eggs. Wally handpicks his team members and breeds for better IVs. This isn't what the RSE Wally would have done, or what pre-post game Wally would have done. And according to people who's had the rematches with him, the IVs of his Gallade is different in the rematches compared to the Victory Road match (idk how they found it but if this is true, he actually replaced his first friend for a better pokemon). He was initially this sweet child who stuck with his best friends no matter what, and changed into a trainer similar to the pokemon gamers in real life - like us.

In other community sites I've been to, people are stating that Wally became Paul-ish

 

[Esserise]

I don't find him any better or worse than before, myself. I still like him, but he's not really one of my favorites.

But after the rematches in the post-game

Spoiler

he states about re-raising his team, and there are NPCs talking about a green-haired prince jogging along the Battle Resort beaches with a handful of eggs. Wally handpicks his team members and breeds for better IVs. This isn't what the RSE Wally would have done, or what pre-post game Wally would have done. And according to people who's had the rematches with him, the IVs of his Gallade is different in the rematches compared to the Victory Road match (idk how they found it but if this is true, he actually replaced his first friend for a better pokemon). He was initially this sweet child who stuck with his best friends no matter what, and changed into a trainer similar to the pokemon gamers in real life - like us.

In other community sites I've been to, people are stating that Wally became Paul-ish

There's a bit of Fridge Brilliance there if you think about it, though. When you first meet him in Petalburg, he adds the PlayNav app to your PokéNav Plus. And what does the PlayNav include? Super Training. And when he goes to catch his Ralts, he says that he read about how to catch Pokémon in a book. So it seems as though he spent a lot of time studying up on that stuff before becoming an actual Trainer.

 

[Morningstar]

I don't find him any better or worse than before, myself. I still like him, but he's not really one of my favorites.

But after the rematches in the post-game

Spoiler

he states about re-raising his team, and there are NPCs talking about a green-haired prince jogging along the Battle Resort beaches with a handful of eggs. Wally handpicks his team members and breeds for better IVs. This isn't what the RSE Wally would have done, or what pre-post game Wally would have done. And according to people who's had the rematches with him, the IVs of his Gallade is different in the rematches compared to the Victory Road match (idk how they found it but if this is true, he actually replaced his first friend for a better pokemon). He was initially this sweet child who stuck with his best friends no matter what, and changed into a trainer similar to the pokemon gamers in real life - like us.

In other community sites I've been to, people are stating that Wally became Paul-ish

There's a bit of Fridge Brilliance there if you think about it, though. When you first meet him in Petalburg, he adds the PlayNav app to your PokéNav Plus. And what does the PlayNav include? Super Training. And when he goes to catch his Ralts, he says that he read about how to catch Pokémon in a book. So it seems as though he spent a lot of time studying up on that stuff before becoming an actual Trainer.

So does that mean that Wally will become a Social Darwinist jerk that abandons his pokemon on a whim, A Smogon strawman, or we will find out that despite all this Wally still spends time with his old pokemon?

 

[The Outrage]

@Kyriaki;
At first glance, it just seems like Game Freak acknowledging their fandom, but combined with the Gentleman who basically gives the opposite message of Karen and this recent interview, I am honestly thinking that Game Freak derailed Wally's personality to take a jab at competitive players.

The real hardcore Pokemon players are aware of the creatures' hidden stats -- the effort values and individual values. Why do you keep those hidden instead of letting players see them?

SO: Each Pokemon does have a value but I don't consider those data as parameters. I prefer to think of them as real, living creatures. It's the same way that if you have a pet and someone else has the same breed of dog, it's a different dog. That way people can play the game and my Pokemon will be different to your Pokemon even if they're the same type.

A comparison would be looking at a datasheet on different dogs and deciding about the data on the different dogs and deciding which one you want based on that data -- that would be soulless.

I usually expect such crap coming from Masuda's mouth, but this one came from Ohmori. Sure, deride an entire section of your fandom, one you devote an annual tournament to.

And let's completely ignore the fact people do in fact judge animals based on pedigree

So does that mean that Wally will become a Social Darwinist jerk that abandons his pokemon on a whim

The irony is that if Wally was a Pokemon, competitive battlers would have released him because he's sickly. So much for his Trainer's Eye profile.

 

[Garren]

I don't see how the gentleman's words or Ohmori's is necessarily taking a stab at competitive players?

Doesn't the gentleman just say that sometimes you'll need to go with stronger Pokemon in order to win? From what I remember seeing a screen-shot of that dialogue, it didn't seem judgmental as all. Nor does it seem the game implies there's anything wrong with Wally for creating a stronger team.

As for you bringing up how real-life people judge animals based on pedigree, I'm sure you'll find a lot of people who find that to be soulless and somewhat cruel towards the animals, especially as many pure-breed animals suffer debilitating genetic diseases to their breeding.

I think you're looking to be offended when there's really no reason to be.

 

[Norzan]

@The Outrage; Just wow. So they create IV breeding, make the Everstone have a 100% chance to pass down natures, make the Destiny Knot pass down 5 random IVs from either parents, the Friend Safari mons having at least 2 perfect IVs, pretty much encouraging everybody to breed for 5/6 perfect IVs mons and now call us souless because we decided to choose our mons based on IVs when they, probably unwillingly though, encouraged us to do so because of the changes they made to IV breeding? That's dickish to say the least.

Sorry for the off-topic, but i had to respond to that.

 

[Absent]

For all we know, he could have multiple teams for different scenarios. He can still be the caring boy, he just embraced the competitive scene.

 

[Garren]

Yeah, I really think you guys are just being really thin-skinned about something completely ridiculous to get upset over. There's plenty of solid, actual in-game evidence that they're catering to competitive players in a meaningful way as you just posted, it's not even like the situation with Smash fans where there's legitimate gameplay decisions made against competitive players like tripping and such, it's just one interview implying that the team who makes the creatures still likes to see them as living and not exactly data, and a fictional character breeding a stronger team.

 

[The Outrage]

@Garren;
There's a difference between seeing their creations as actual living animals, and then calling out a section of your fandom who likes to do the number crunching as "soulless".

I'm not that big a competitive battler, and anyone who has seen me post knows I care more about the story. However, its plainly obvious that they have a low opinion of an entire subsection of their fandom even if they aren't willing to overhaul the battle system (probably in fear of alienating their fanbase).

And what, you expect people to ask the same questions over and over again in each interview? Its not "just one interview"--its the director of ORAS stating his opinion on competitive battling.

As for you bringing up how real-life people judge animals based on pedigree, I'm sure you'll find a lot of people who find that to be soulless and somewhat cruel towards the animals, especially as many pure-breed animals suffer debilitating genetic diseases to their breeding.

That's exactly my point, which is why I find it ironic that he talks about comparing breeds of dogs, especially since nearly all the medical conditions pure-bred dogs have are a direct result of selective breeding for aesthetic traits.

 

[Garren]

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't really see anything that controversial about what he said. I agree it was a poor word choice, but if a company is putting money and effort into fostering a competitive environment, I'm not going to exactly get upset if their words say otherwise since, imo, actions speak louder. If there was a downward shift in ORAS taking away the importance of the competitive fans, I agree the comment would be much more scandalous, but there isn't.

And honestly, if the director sees the competitive side as soulless, that's his opinion. I mean I know there's times where I find the competitive scene of Pokemon to be pretty dull and unoriginal.