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Discussion about saving the old VAs

Water Pokémon Master

Jan 7, 2004
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Shoot me in the foot or ban me if you want, but there does not seem to be a place where we can rebuttal against certain fans' attempts to bring back the old VAs. Since the topic is huge and because the arguments are scattered among threads and posts in which people *try* to say something, I thought I would make one. Not having a thread like this just creates friction when someone tries to speak up or wants to say something, so maybe it would be best to have a place to talk. Again mods, if you feel this is wrong, feel free to lock / delete / ban me / whatever. I, along with other people, are extremely frustrated with what SOVA is attempting to do to represent us, and I feel there needs to be a thread where we can discuss certain aspects of the SOVA campaign. Maybe this thread will allow a lot of frustration to subside, since the case as of now has been "sit back and just let them talk - and btw, you can't say anything." They have made their case quite clear, so I think that since this is the forum where SOVA originated from, it's time for a rebuttal.

Feel free to post in here if you are from SOVA. It's extremely illogical to keep a thread one-sided. I think it would be wise to have some discussion on both sides. Please do not flame someone - you may want to call *what* they are doing stupid, but do not call *them* stupid (that goes for both sides).


Alright, so recently, SOVA wants to go on to live television and write into newspapers and magazines, telling the world of how a few Pokemon voice actors have been replaced. They want to go on to such shows as the Today Show, speaking to NY and the world on how the Pokemon voice actors were replaced. As if this will actually happen, but does anyone think this is the wrong way of going about the situation? They haven't even TALKED to PUSA, yet they are going to attempt to go on to live television and into newspapers and talk blatantly, without knowing the facts, for everyone. It does not even seem like they even understand the situation, yet they are going to go and make sure that other people know that the evil Pokemon USA took the jobs of voice acting away from the innocent 4Kids VAs, when that is not even the case. SOVA's members appear to have a deep liking for the old VAs and do not want them to change, but does this cause them to be blind and to avoid what is actually going on?

I have been keeping up with the SOVA thread from Day 1, when I was an actual supporter, but now that I understand the situation, it seems that SOVA is on the wrong side, and NO ONE is trying to forcefully show them that. I have tried, but failed many times to knock some sense into the campaign, but it doesn't seem like anyone in the SOVA campaign wants to listen to any voice of reasoning. They just want to go out into the world, make Pokemon fans look like utter fools, and talk for all of us. Now of course, even I will admit that SOVA seemed to have a good shot in the very, very, very beginning, but once PUSA took over, it almost became 100% apparent that it was lost. So why are they continuing this campaign? Is it because of personal reasons? Is it because they feel this is "their call?" No one seems to know why, and it would be interesting to hear what SOVA has to say about this question.

I'd like to generate some GOOD discussion about all of this. Maybe we can help SOVA to understand that they are not doing things right, or maybe SOVA can show us that we are doing things wrong.
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I was actually against sova from the start. Probably mostly because I heard (and partially saw myself) so much bad things about how 4kids/Kids' WB screwed up the dub and I was also always annoyed that because of all the licensing stuff, TV networks and production companies in other countries are unable to dub the Japanese original and have to dub the US dub instead.
It just doesn't fit together that there is so much rage about the edits that 4kids/Kids' WB did and then suddenly many seem to start to change their minds and want 4kids back - only because of some voices that would change. I never understood how some people can prefer keeping the familiar voice actors over getting a dub that promises to have a lot less stupid edits.

I'm glad that there is a topic like this now. And I can't imagine that it will be deleted. The Bulbapedia article about the voice actor controversy seems to be written from a neutral point of view, so it seems like sova members can tolerate other opinions.
This has recently been posted over at the ANN forums.And it's suppsedly from Pokebeach.com

I talked to several PUSA reps about this, and I have talked to several 4Kids voice actors about this, and in combining their two stories, the reason why the change happened is clear. PUSA took away the rights from 4Kids to dub the show because they asked for too much money, and 4Kids knew they asked for too much money. Thus, PUSA decided to take the dubbing of the show back to TAJ Studios, which did the dubbing for the first five or so seasons of the show. PUSA then approached the main voice actors of the show, such as Meowth and Ash, (despite what the VAs say), but 4Kids WOULD NOT let them go work for PUSA. When Veronica Taylor found out she was losing her job, she phoned PUSA almost every single day begging them to make 4Kids change their contracts, but PUSA could not do anything about it since they were under contract with 4Kids. When I e-mailed Taylor and told her about what I heard about her talking on the phone to PUSA a while ago (since I had heard this story before and had it retold to me today), she replied with "I feel my privacy has been invaded and I will no longer talk to you (something like that)." PUSA also informed me that while the VAs constantly are denying the fact that PUSA approached them to do the voices, THEY DID, and they were in contact with some of the actors, such as Taylor on a constant basis. Thus, if you want to blame anyone for this, blame 4Kids, not PUSA or the voice actors. As a PUSA rep put it today, "It's no one's fault, everyone is a victim (in reference to the old VAs and PUSA)."

Also, no matter what ANYONE does or says, PUSA WILL NOT be changing the voice actors back to the originals (they specifically mentioned that certain individual's radicalism towards trying to save the old voice actors would not sway them, especially when they did not even have their facts straight). They CAN'T, since it was 4Kids' decision. They have already settled in with their new VAs, and nothing will be changed in the future, no matter what a select few fans do (stop wasting your time, folks). The end. Everyone needs to learn to adapt to change, and if you cannot even get used to a couple of voice actors, then you are going to have some real problems in the real world. PUSA said they understood why fans were upset, saying that they were upset too and it is completely understandable for fans to be upset. However, there was nothing they could do to get the original actors to dub the show, and thus, they had to go find new ones. It was even said that at one point, they were seriously considering canceling the show, but instead, they decided to take it into their own hands. The general consensus was that they were sick of people “beating the dead horse,” and that they have moved on to working on the show now, not worrying about the old VAs anymore. They will not be returning to the issue.

If all of this is true,then it really is all of 4Kids' fault.They're the ones to blame for the VA replacements and no one else.My only concern was that somehow the original VA's roles had suddenly been taken away,with not letting them have any say in the matter.But if they actually tried to keep their roles in Pokemon and 4Kids were the ones that prevented them from getting their jobs back,then there really wasn't anyway to stop that from happening.It's like how Megan Hollingshead left the series to pursue an acting carrer,or if say Eric Stuart left to focus on his band,it is what it is.At least we have an actual good reason now,blame it on 4Kids.And now Pokemon USA does deserve the fans' support.

Now,if those were indeed the circumstances of how all of this came about,then at this point I'd have to figure that the original VAs really do care about their jobs and roles on the Pokemon series.They pretty much knew that the only way they were going to keep their jobs was if Pokemon USA hired them through 4Kids,or if Pokemon USA made some sort of deal that would get 4Kids involved in the franchise again.Which would explain why the VAs claimed that Pokemon USA never approached them and started to respond to fans through e-mails and message boards.They just wanted to keep their roles in the english dub.

They didn't have to go that far if you think about it.There's plenty of other work to go around at 4Kids.If Pokemon was just another job to them,we would've never heard a peep from the original VAs.But they decided to speak out anyway while trying to remain loyal to the company they work for.Even though 4Kids represented the wall that kept the old VAs from working on the new dub.

And after all of this BS,I don't know how any of them can keep a smile on their face and remain loyal to 4Kids.Believe me,if it was still possible at this point,I'd welcome back the original VAs with open arms.If the rumor that Ted Lewis has quit over at 4Kids is true,then the last remaining hope is that him leaving creates a snowball effect that would have other major VAs quit 4Kids and jumpship to Pokemon USA.And if not,then I'm cool with the new VA's anyway.Like I said,at least now we'd have an actual good reason for all the changes.
I think the last hopes for the old VA's went in the crapper when Maddie told the people at SOVA to send nasty e-mails to CN telling them not to sign a contract with PUSA unless the old VA's returned. Frankly, if I was in PUSA's shoes, any possible deals for the old VA's would be burned and forgotten.

SOVA has this problem that they don't know when they've lost. They claim they only lose if they give up. Well, here's a news flash, it's over. At least five episodes are dubbed. We have about 6 weeks before Season 9 begins. It's over, you lost.
Didn't we know it was based on the contractual language a while ago?

Kids on a forum are still trying to change the language of a multi-million dollar contract? Come on.
I have been rather quiet about this, as I don't usually voice or update you guys about my current opinion, which is now this:

In my current view of things, the S.O.V.A. campaign is definitely going a bit too far. These kind of things do not need to be blown to this proportion - not many people are going to care. S.O.V.A. will only made a fool and laughing stock out of them.

However, I still do support S.O.V.A.'s cause, but not in the way or direction they are going. I believe that the original Pokémon voice actors should still be used. However, if the replacements are going to be up to par with the originals, then we should let it be like that. From what I hear of the clip of the newer dub, May and Max's voices sound almost the same as the original. However, I would prefer to have Ash and Brock's old voice actors back.

From whatever I can glean from the internet, ultimately, 4Kids (the company we all love to hate) is the single sole reason we can blame all this mess on (not Pokémon USA (PUSA), and not the old or new voice actors). The old voice actors did try, but 4Kids refused and couldn't listen, and couldn't allow or compromise anything, and PUSA couldn't do anything either, and neither the old voice actors could do anything either, since 4Kids was the one being stubborn and bossing and pushing everything around and about and being while making sure their hands were clean off this (and Pokémon) as they bounded their own voice actors, their own employees, to their selves with "contracts" as a wall bounds a prisoner to itself with chains.

If S.O.V.A. needs to accomplish anything now, their last chance is to talk to PUSA and 4Kids, and try to broker a deal between the two. Undeniably, there will be some bias from the press releases of both companies trying to glorify themselves, but it is important not to allow this to distract matters too much and to focus on where the bull's eye is right now: getting 4Kids to allow PUSA to use their voice actors. Only then can something be done.
Nothing is more important with all the wars, hunger, oil crisis, murder, robberies going on then going on the Today Show and protest something that already has been decided!
4Kids letting the voice actors stay with Pokemon is akin to the Yankees letting Derek Jeter play for the Mets in his spare time.
Okay, that's like the Devil Rays allowing one of their players to play for the Royals =P
SOVA may have a good cause, but if the above is true, then someone must feel shallow. Right now they're only adding fuel to PUSA's fire when 4kids are the ones to blame here. The season's already being dubbed, and probably the only one with the capability to sort things out, it's 4kids, and even those chances are pretty slim. Plus even if they do, it wouldn't be for season nine, that's for sure, unless they re-dub it in their free time.

But why not take advantage of PUSA and have a banned episodes petition all over again? I mean, I remember a while ago someone (Dogasu I believe) mentioned that because of the complaint it would be a bad move to dub the Jynx episode, even though the woman probably doesn't care. Wouldn't it be a clean slate now since it's a now company?

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Ookinkyokon said:
Didn't we know it was based on the contractual language a while ago?

The jury's still out on that. The only contract from 4Kids that we were able to find on the vast space of the net turned out to be a contract for one of the executives, which would be vastly different to that which the VA's would have signed.

It'd help if perhaps we could ask a VA not connected to 4Kids or Pokémon what the industry standard contracts look like, since it's doubtful that any specific contract with a company would be looser than those. We'd have a good benchmark to start discussions from.

For the record BTW...I believe a number of people in SOVA have expressed that they already realise their cause is lost. But even knowing that, they're willing to continue to fight this lost cause.

From the way PUSA and the old VA's keep accusing each other of various things, I'd wouldn't be surprised if the true blame does lie with 4Kids, spreading two different versions of things to people on both sides, just ending up distorting the facts, and turning it into a he says, she says arguement where neither side is exactly right, because of the confusion caused by the 3rd party.
Al Khan is evil, I wouldn't put not letting the VAs go to PUSA past him.
It's really not "evil"... Now that PM is not with 4Kids anymore, they're probably regarded as the number one threat. So if they can gut their VAs, that's a good blow, and 4kids can gain back some lost market share...
Ookinkyokon said:
Okay, that's like the Devil Rays allowing one of their players to play for the Royals =P
Sad but true. (GM needs better managment like stat.)

I'm just getting sick of the attitude that they can change it no matter what. Some want Season 9 redubbed when they're finished. Others want *shudders* 4Kids to take it back over.
Well, we know one thing, they won't get any support from One Piece Fans.
Is anyone forgetting that Pokémon is considered to be the best 4Kids dub? (Even if that isn't saying much.) I have no problems with it and even the questionable edits are a different aspect to the voice acting. The voice acting has always been praised and most of SOVA even seems to have no problems losing 4Kids and is only concerned with the voice actors.

It is PUSA's constant attempts to please the fandom worry me. They've already pulled away the VAs because "we thought that's what you wanted". Sooner or later they are going to realise that they just can't please everyone and give up, probably after making more big mistakes.

I am anxiously awaiting their reaction to the reactions to the new opening.
While I would have enjoyed the idea of the 4Kids VAs working on a non 4Kids dub of Pokemon I didn't ever really thing SOVA was going to get anywhere. Aside from the obvious points about how difficult/impossible it would actually be to acheive, I couldn't see a single factor in their tactics that would see success.

I mean half a dozen members of a message board sending a few letters and e-mails? Hardly going to influence anyone or anything. SOVA is not only a tiny drop in the ocean of Pokemon fans, they're also not the target audience.

Though the bitching in the community about it as a whole, not just generated from SOVA, can probably be attributed to some success - the Mastermind special has been redubbed and sounds better. Of course, as a rushed job in the first place it's possible that a redub was always on the cards, but if SOVA is to claim any success, it'd be of that.
Anyone have a link to the new opening?
Is it good, etc.?
Please note: The thread is from 18 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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