Do the higher ups think fans only care about Ash & Pikachu?

[Johtohfiller]

Reunion movie idea scrapped in favor of a movie focusing just on Ash and Pikachu.

OS characters replaced in the movie except for a single non-speaking appearance from Gary.

Ash's friends in SM getting reduced emphasis compared to previous series.

Team Rocket getting reduced screentime in SM despite being a perfect fit for a more slapstick-oriented series.

Team Rocket not appearing in the so-called anniversary episode, despite being the second biggest constant in the series after Ash and Pikachu. They also don't even interact with Ash in the movie.

It really seems like they're treating Ash and Pikachu as The Only Characters Who Count™, everyone else seems downplayed.

 

[Rath]

Ash's friends in SM getting reduced emphasis compared to previous series.

I'm sorry but what? SM has been less Ash-centric than XY.

Mallow and Sophocles have been shafted sure, but aside from Ash and Lillie getting the most focus because they're the main characters, I'd say Kiawe and Lana have gotten better treatment than Serena or Clemont had at the same point in their series.

As for "fans", they only care about the show's target audience; young children. Anyone older than that isn't worth trying to appeal to in their eyes.

Also the reunion movie idea was scrapped because it was unfeasible; getting all of the original voice actors back would be a nightmare, and in May's case, impossible because she doesn't do voice acting anymore. Not to mention the problems with balancing screentime for all of those characters, as all as their Pokemon.

 

[SonansuMan]

Reunion movie idea scrapped in favor of a movie focusing just on Ash and Pikachu.

While a reunion movie with all of the past characters showing up would've actually been amazing to see, it would probably be better to save it for a last movie. In my opinion, Ash and Pikachu are more important because they've reached a milestone of the time they've been on the anime, so they deserve it.

OS characters replaced in the movie except for a single non-speaking appearance from Gary.

Not everyone is probably going to be steady with my opinion, but I'm okay with Misty and Brock not being Ash's companions in this movie, what upsets me is that they weren't at least shown as Gym Leaders. The only excuse they have for this is that Misty and Brock would not be recognizable by newer and younger fans of the anime.

Ash's friends in SM getting reduced emphasis compared to previous series.

The friends in SM aren't the main focus of the series; Ash is, so it's understandable they'd get less emphasis. It's also hard to balance development with six characters.

Team Rocket getting reduced screentime in SM despite being a perfect fit for a more slapstick-oriented series.

The trio not being in the current series as often is disappointing, especially for me. But when you think about it, what exactly would they have done in the majority of episodes when they were absent? SM is mainly taking a development turn similar to what XY did by the time Serena cut her hair. TR wouldn't really fit in most of these episodes anyways, but on a positive notes, there's still plenty of potential they could have later in the series.

Team Rocket not appearing in the so-called anniversary episode, despite being the second biggest constant in the series after Ash and Pikachu. They also don't even interact with Ash in the movie.

That was a little stupid, but it did make sense considering at the time it was the 20th anniversary of the first episode, not the second episode.

It really seems like they're treating Ash and Pikachu as The Only Characters Who Count™, everyone else seems downplayed.

Agreed.

 

[CrystaI]

You know, I 100% agreed the concern of OP, and that is exactly the problem I have with Pokemon Anime.

Look at the answers to the question of "What do you watch the Pokemon Anime for?" or "What do you like about the Pokemon Anime?" from many forums, the ones how voted "Ash Ketchum" was never the majority. Although I do agreed there indeed exist such diehard Ash Ketchum fans, but still one can't deny the fact that the ones that chose other non-Ash-Ketchum options is far more than the ones choosing only Ash Ketchum.

Even if we disregard the polls in forums because there are someone who argued forum users are non-target-demographics of Pokemon Anime, I still doubt the silent ones will all choose Ash Ketchum as their main reason to watch Pokemon Anime. If I took the M20 interview as reference, even within the staffs themselves, their answers of why Pokemon is loved by many are all differed from each other. Matsumoto Rica think it is because of Satoshi/Ash Ketchum (It is justifiable because she love her own job), Ohtani Ikue think it is obviously his Pikachu, Yamatera Kouichi think it is its unique world-building and limitless possibility to portray many different kind of stories, Yuyama Kunihiko think it is the large variety of pokemon species, Asada Yuuji think it is the perfect blend of relationship between human and pokemon, Sudou Norihiko think it is because of a great adventure story yet easily understandable, Tomiyasu Daiki think because it is a lively expansion of the game series, Yajima Tetsuo think it is the empathy experience of audience insert themselves into the protagonist and go through that fictional adventure through the eyes of Ash Ketchum. None of their answers is congruent to one another, despite they all work in the same show.

That's why, I do not understand at all, where does this notion of "Ash and Pikachu is the uttermost important thing in Pokemon Anime and they must remain til the end of universe even if it costs every other thing in compensation" come from? They are the first protagonist and first handheld of that protagonist, hence iconic, that I could understand. However, iconic =/= important, that is two different concepts. The former is valuable in terms of PR perspective, but the latter is valuable in terms of story-writing perspective. Disregard one's personal favoritism, only looking at story planning from writer's perspective, is Ash Ketchum really that important, where his role is completely irreplaceable with a newbie trainer where his/her name is not Ash Ketchum?

I don't know other people's answer, but from my personal opinion, I would answer "NO". Starting from BW onward, because story doesn't rely on any specific background past of protagonist (exclude those nostalgic fan-service moments like Charizard return, because they are made for purely fan-service, so the main plot is completely unaffected even if such moment/episode is eliminated), hence any trainer character can fill Ash Ketchum's protagonist role. Any trainer, not limited to Red/Leaf/Gold/Kris/Ethan/Lyra/Brendan/May/Lucas/Dawn/Hilbert/Hilda/Nate/Rosa/Calem/Serena/Sun/Moon, but even Youngster Joey or my fanfic OC can fill his role.

I may derailed a bit. But other than problem of fixation of a single protagonist, the Pokemon Anime indeed exist many other charms, such as the world-building, its easily understandable story plot, the large variety of pokemon species, and many other. Hence why talks like Ash Ketchum and Pikachu is the only charm that can lure customers? I hope the director board of Pokemon Anime could understand, the charm of Pokemon is not only one, hence pay attention to other elements as well.

And just a side note. For me personally, in the past I loved and watched Pokemon Anime, not because of Ash Ketchum nor Pikachu, but its world-building and the pokemon themselves, also the possibility to depict many different kind of stories. I'm in the same likes as Yamatera Kouichi.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Mallow and Sophocles have been shafted sure, but aside from Ash and Lillie getting the most focus because they're the main characters, I'd say Kiawe and Lana have gotten better treatment than Serena or Clemont had at the same point in their series.

How exactly? They barely appear to do something. Till the Akala arc, they each had only a single episode that focused on them.

 

[Playerking]

Reunion movie idea scrapped in favor of a movie focusing just on Ash and Pikachu.

OS characters replaced in the movie except for a single non-speaking appearance from Gary.

Ash's friends in SM getting reduced emphasis compared to previous series.

Team Rocket getting reduced screentime in SM despite being a perfect fit for a more slapstick-oriented series.

Team Rocket not appearing in the so-called anniversary episode, despite being the second biggest constant in the series after Ash and Pikachu. They also don't even interact with Ash in the movie.

It really seems like they're treating Ash and Pikachu as The Only Characters Who Count™, everyone else seems downplayed.

It was only Brock, Misty and Gary (to an extent) that got replaced, the rest were pretty much all there.

Ash's friends haven't gotten reduced emphasis. They get roughly the same amount of episodes as Ash's other companions. They even share some focus episodes with other characters. If it seems like they get a little less, it's probably because there are more companions.

Team Rocket haven't gotten less screen time, except for the Akala arc so far. There were multiple breaks in BW where they were also absent.

It wasn't exactly an anniversary episode, in the sense that there was no connection to the first episode and who cares that Team Rocket didn't appear there? They weren't actually in the first Pokemon episode anyway.

 

[Shadao]

I wouldn't say that. The reason why Ash and Pikachu have been given extensive focus over everyone else, including Team Rocket, is the fact that they represent the central core of every Pokémon mainstream games. Doesn't what gender the trainer is or what kind of Pokémon they may have, it is always about a trainer and their Pokémon. Ash and Pikachu represent that narrative quite. Even Satoshi Tajiri stated that marketing focusing on Ash and Pikachu rather than just Pikachu got the point of Pokémon.

The treatment of Ash and Pikachu is in hindsight no different from the treatment of various superheroes like Batman and Spider-Man. While each interpretations and incarnations of Batman and Spider-Man are different, the fundamental core of their character remains the same and the focus of these stories. Best summed up by Batman: The Brave and the Bold:

"Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways. To be sure, this is a lighter incarnation, but it's certainly no less valid and true to the character's roots than the tortured avenger crying out for mommy and daddy."

I bring this up because if anyone has been paying attention to the various medias of Batman and Spider-Man, you would notice that their supporting casts or even their villains are not all accounted for. Batman in particular had movies that feature him alone with no Robin, and even shows that don't feature his arch-nemesis, the Joker. Doesn't that sound familiar?

 

[Rath]

How exactly? They barely appear to do something. Till the Akala arc, they each had only a single episode that focused on them.

Lillie had three.

The other four all sort of blend together in episode that aren't focused on them, but that's more of a result of, well, having four of them.

To put into perspective:

Ash = Protagonist
Lillie = May/Dawn/Serena
The other four: The Brock/Cilan/Clemont role split into four characters

Individually, yeah, but as a group? They haven't gotten any less focus than Clemont had before and after the Lumiose Gym Battle.

 

[SinnohEevee]

They know we care about other characters too but they don't care because the target audience keeps renewing itself.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Individually, yeah, but as a group? They haven't gotten any less focus than Clemont had before and after the Lumiose Gym Battle.

Whut? You claimed that:

I'd say Kiawe and Lana have gotten better treatment than Serena or Clemont had at the same point in their series.

This has nothing to do with your answer.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Reunion movie idea scrapped in favor of a movie focusing just on Ash and Pikachu.[

As cool as the idea sounds, I'm not sure how practical that concept would actually be. There are fifteen traveling companions including the SM cast now. Even if they didn't include the SM cast for some reason, that would still be a lot of characters to include in a movie. It might not be too hard to write in an explanation as to why they all meet up and it wouldn't take long to introduce some of the older characters to the younger audiences, but there's still the issue of getting all of the voice actors to reprise their roles. Not to mention it would be really hard to balance out the screentime for that many characters in one movie. Granted, I think people would generally just like seeing older characters returning and getting an idea of how they're doing, but I could just as easily see people getting upset/frustrated if their favorite characters didn't get enough screentime.

Ash's friends in SM getting reduced emphasis compared to previous series.

I'm not sure if they're getting that much reduced emphasis. Most of the SM cast still get at least a decent amount of screentime. The only ones with reduced focused to me are Mallow and Sophocles and even then, Mallow has been able to stand out in some of the other character focused episodes. If it does feel like they have a reduced amount of focus compared to other main casts, I think that would have more to do with just how large the cast is than anything else.

Team Rocket getting reduced screentime in SM despite being a perfect fit for a more slapstick-oriented series.

That is pretty strange. I haven't noticed it that much yet in the dub, but they do tend to miss more episodes in a row than they have for awhile, so I don't know how that decision works.

It really seems like they're treating Ash and Pikachu as The Only Characters Who Count™, everyone else seems downplayed.

I think it's more like Ash and Pikachu are the major stars of the anime as opposed to the only characters who count exactly. For better or for worse, they are the faces of the anime. Each series is all about Ash and Pikachu going on new journeys, making new friends and catching Pokemon. They are going to have more importance than other characters in that regard, but I don't think that necessarily means that every other character doesn't matter.

 

[Nicolas721]

The answer is yes. However, fans are given many reasons for not caring about the duo, including:

1) As Ash and Pikachu aren't disposable, people latch on more to companions and other recurring characters, even those that are percieved as unpopular. People talk more about Iris than about BW Pikachu...Or even Pikachu in general. TR's sudden personality change arguably made people appreciate them more.

2)Ash and Pikachu's relationship isn't the focus of the series. There are a lot of episodes where their only meaningful interaction is Ash commanding Pikachu to use Thunderbolt on Team Rocket. I'm not asking for them to fight every 10 episodes, but small things like Pikachu cheering Ash more would be welcomed.

 

[Sakuraa]

I wouldn't say that. If they really felt that way, what would be the point of introducing companion characters at all? I can't see them going through the trouble on including extra characters, making episodes for them, hiring voice actors for them, etc if they thought the fans only wanted to see Ash and Pikachu.

 

[ii kanji]

If by higher ups, we're talking about the people who make executive financial decisions, then absolutely yes. I think the people behind the actual creation of the anime have a much broader love for the show and its characters (which is why, by hook or crook, fans become hugely invested fans of other characters too!) but I suspect that their ambitions for other characters, and even for Satoshi & Pikachu, are massively stunted by restrictions placed by the people who pay their salaries. The most explicit example of this is Takeshi Shudou who wrote something on his blog about his dream to make the TRio the main characters which he was not allowed to do

and who cares that Team Rocket didn't appear there?

*puts hand up*

 

[Unbeatable HoennMon]

Of course they think so. However, it's strange- that whole ,,Ash-Pikachu Thing" became boring about Orange Islands. I don't know what more we can learn about them. The episodes about May, Dawn or Serena ( without these two ) were like fresh air- i really don't understand what is the point in returning to that relationship ( especially, without original characters).
@ii kanji
You can count on my hands too.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I'm sorry but what? SM has been less Ash-centric than XY.

Mallow and Sophocles have been shafted sure, but aside from Ash and Lillie getting the most focus because they're the main characters, I'd say Kiawe and Lana have gotten better treatment than Serena or Clemont had at the same point in their series.

As for "fans", they only care about the show's target audience; young children. Anyone older than that isn't worth trying to appeal to in their eyes.

Also the reunion movie idea was scrapped because it was unfeasible; getting all of the original voice actors back would be a nightmare, and in May's case, impossible because she doesn't do voice acting anymore. Not to mention the problems with balancing screentime for all of those characters, as all as their Pokemon.

I disagree. SM is the first series where I haven't felt like I know the characters really well within 10 to 20 episodes. Even BW which I don't like did better in that respect. Usually Ash's friends get involved in his quest which helps bring out their own personalities, but that's less the case this time (compare Ash vs Viola where his friends helped him out, with Ash vs Hala where they weren't even there) - hell, Ash isn't even that involved in his quest. And that's part of the problem; the emphasis on dicking around isn't doing the characters any favors.

I didn't specify adult fans. "Kids love Pikachu" is probably a big part of the mindset. It's playing it safe.

You know, I 100% agreed the concern of OP, and that is exactly the problem I have with Pokemon Anime.

Look at the answers to the question of "What do you watch the Pokemon Anime for?" or "What do you like about the Pokemon Anime?" from many forums, the ones how voted "Ash Ketchum" was never the majority. Although I do agreed there indeed exist such diehard Ash Ketchum fans, but still one can't deny the fact that the ones that chose other non-Ash-Ketchum options is far more than the ones choosing only Ash Ketchum.

Even if we disregard the polls in forums because there are someone who argued forum users are non-target-demographics of Pokemon Anime, I still doubt the silent ones will all choose Ash Ketchum as their main reason to watch Pokemon Anime. If I took the M20 interview as reference, even within the staffs themselves, their answers of why Pokemon is loved by many are all differed from each other. Matsumoto Rica think it is because of Satoshi/Ash Ketchum (It is justifiable because she love her own job), Ohtani Ikue think it is obviously his Pikachu, Yamatera Kouichi think it is its unique world-building and limitless possibility to portray many different kind of stories, Yuyama Kunihiko think it is the large variety of pokemon species, Asada Yuuji think it is the perfect blend of relationship between human and pokemon, Sudou Norihiko think it is because of a great adventure story yet easily understandable, Tomiyasu Daiki think because it is a lively expansion of the game series, Yajima Tetsuo think it is the empathy experience of audience insert themselves into the protagonist and go through that fictional adventure through the eyes of Ash Ketchum. None of their answers is congruent to one another, despite they all work in the same show.

That's why, I do not understand at all, where does this notion of "Ash and Pikachu is the uttermost important thing in Pokemon Anime and they must remain til the end of universe even if it costs every other thing in compensation" come from? They are the first protagonist and first handheld of that protagonist, hence iconic, that I could understand. However, iconic =/= important, that is two different concepts. The former is valuable in terms of PR perspective, but the latter is valuable in terms of story-writing perspective. Disregard one's personal favoritism, only looking at story planning from writer's perspective, is Ash Ketchum really that important, where his role is completely irreplaceable with a newbie trainer where his/her name is not Ash Ketchum?

I don't know other people's answer, but from my personal opinion, I would answer "NO". Starting from BW onward, because story doesn't rely on any specific background past of protagonist (exclude those nostalgic fan-service moments like Charizard return, because they are made for purely fan-service, so the main plot is completely unaffected even if such moment/episode is eliminated), hence any trainer character can fill Ash Ketchum's protagonist role. Any trainer, not limited to Red/Leaf/Gold/Kris/Ethan/Lyra/Brendan/May/Lucas/Dawn/Hilbert/Hilda/Nate/Rosa/Calem/Serena/Sun/Moon, but even Youngster Joey or my fanfic OC can fill his role.

I may derailed a bit. But other than problem of fixation of a single protagonist, the Pokemon Anime indeed exist many other charms, such as the world-building, its easily understandable story plot, the large variety of pokemon species, and many other. Hence why talks like Ash Ketchum and Pikachu is the only charm that can lure customers? I hope the director board of Pokemon Anime could understand, the charm of Pokemon is not only one, hence pay attention to other elements as well.

And just a side note. For me personally, in the past I loved and watched Pokemon Anime, not because of Ash Ketchum nor Pikachu, but its world-building and the pokemon themselves, also the possibility to depict many different kind of stories. I'm in the same likes as Yamatera Kouichi.

I'm fine with keeping Ash, but I absolutely want to see more side stories. How about a Team Rocket story but animated instead of a radio drama? A Contest miniseries with Dawn, Serena, and May (she might be impossible due to VA issues, but this is hypothetical anyway) and some of their rivals? A detective story starring Looker? Prof. Oak interacting with a bunch of Ash's Pokemon at the lab? If I were in charge I'd cut fillers for side stories.

I loved the Mega Evolution episodes, for that matter. It almost seems like a miracle that they got made.

If by higher ups, we're talking about the people who make executive financial decisions, then absolutely yes. I think the people behind the actual creation of the anime have a much broader love for the show and its characters (which is why, by hook or crook, fans become hugely invested fans of other characters too!) but I suspect that their ambitions for other characters, and even for Satoshi & Pikachu, are massively stunted by restrictions placed by the people who pay their salaries. The most explicit example of this is Takeshi Shudou who wrote something on his blog about his dream to make the TRio the main characters which he was not allowed to do

I've toyed with the idea of a meta-fanfic with the writers and animators as angels and the suits as demons. Which is to say I agree completely. It's probably frustrating for the staff - I'm doubtful nerfing Ash's skills in BW or changing the show to slice of life in SM is what they wanted to do.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Isnt it obvious? Even if in past higher ups considered possibility of viewers watching pokemon for more than just Ash and Pikachu. Their actions lately over the years showed and speak differently.

Think about it:

How much continuity does pokemon even have anymore?
Ever since end of AG generation continuity, freferences to past, return of older major chaacters started to decrese(if you compare throwbacks to past in Hoenn and DP, former had far more of them).

Just to see it die down completely through BW and especially XY(Kalos series).

Do older main characters who defined Ash character development and pokemon stories having their own stories, interests, plots and mark left on pokemon adventure ever return?
Ever get references and recognition despite so many people wanting to see follow ups on their lives and stories?
Characters like May, Misty, Brock, Cilan, Dawn etc?

Would it be bad to see May solo adventures of how she went in Johto with contests and what happened afterwards? Did she won Grand festival, what came of rivals like Harley or Drew?
Follow Misty adventures in Cerulean and resolve whole issue with gym, see her prepare for next Whirl Cup, maybe train with her idol Lorelei on Seafolam islands, or meet Siebold teaching her how to mega evolve her pokemon(Gyarados) coming closer to her ultimate dream?

See Brock passing exam to become doctor, open his own pokemon center , travel to various conventions meeting other specialists and face with al kind of mini tests, maybe even battle related to see how well he adopted new skills and knowledge?
Etc.

Or better yet what about al those broken promises, started plots, older pokemon so many fans grew fond of fading in oblivion forgotten?

None of this things receives any respect and acknowledgment in pokemon anime.

Ultimate fact that those in charge are out of touch with world and what audience from pokemon really wants can be found in 20th anniversary movie.

Where likes of chief director Yuyama Kunihiko, anime director Tetsuo Yajima and rest opted to go instead of proper reunion marking 20 years of pokemon history. With alternate story and rewritten pokemon roots ecxcluding everything relevant to OS and beginning except Ash and Pikachu.
Succumbing entire movie to just Ash and Pikachu bond(something we already seen so many times in regular anime anyway in ill argue more emotional and genuine way anyway like "Pikachu Gooldbye!", or "Get the Shown on road!" for example. Than this lackluster anniversary really did.

Being under impression how viewers care and watch pokemon just for Ash and Ash alone accompanied with his partner Pikachu delivering just those 2 instead.

But i can guarantee thats not true, far from it.

And biggest irony in here is that higher ups despite putting all emphasis and focus just on Ash are doing incredibly bad job about said character to begin with. Not giving to viewers reason, notice to be so much invested and emotionally connected to this anime main star. Given how Ash has no defined future, no real character development which we could say lasts over long period of timer building on itself. No real profession in his 20 years long journey devoid of any connection to his older friends(ignoring them and sending to kids very bad message out there), previous accomplishments and everything experienced and lived through all challenges, hard work and maturity he went through previous journeys.

So in short yes its pretty much a given how those in charge are under illusion of "fans watching pokemon just for Ash and Pikachu", yet they don't even give proper treatment to those two either.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

@pokemon fan 132 Not giving attention to older characters=only caring about Ash and Pikachu.

Newer companions also matter the same. And continuity also isn't very relevant. There are other ways. They can show that they care for companions other than Ash and Pikachu by giving PRESENT companions enough attention.

 

[noworry]

Ash and Pikachu are still "active" characters in the anime, which makes kids recognise them. I think they went with new characters to kind of "show" of new pokémon and stuff? I am personally kind of sad about it all, because I loved the original series, and would love to see a real reboot of the first episodes, with all the original characters.

The anime rarely uses or refrences to older characters anymore, which I find sad. I think it would be nice to see Misty or even Gary again, since it has been so long. They usually just replace them with new friends and rivals, to match the current games.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Not giving attention to older characters=only caring about Ash and Pikachu.

Newer companions also matter the same. And continuity also isn't very relevant. There are other ways. They can show that they care for companions other than Ash and Pikachu by giving PRESENT companions enough attention.

No one said they don't, But instead of focusing just on whoever is currently in this show and how righteous writers are in distribution of focus among characters. Im looking at much bigger picture in here.

Because by denouncing continuity your undermining new characters legacy and whatever will happen to them in present as well. What, you think likes of Lana, Mallow, LIly, Kiawe etc currently present in pokemon anime will be remembered and acknowledged once SM saga is over? As long executives are under delusion of Ash and Pikachu being only thing people really want and care about they wont, they will end up abandoned and put in oblivion regardless of how much their stories during time they get replaced are finished otr unfinished, how much potential they have or how much important they used to be.

Without past and bridges to what happened before your erasing anime substance and identity turning it in hollow shell with no long lasting character development and story progression, no outstanding and iconic protagonists, no real gratification for all past troubles and difficulties Ash and whatever other character faced. Having no background and history behind itself.

At that point why even bother focusing on any character not named Ash, explore on his/her friendship with Ash, give them any development and plots when everything will end up irrelevant never to be brought up, continued seeing what came of them in future or remembered?

Continuity is super important in long lasting series set allegedly in same universe and world like pokemon. Yet this anime has little to zero in it with on going development being just wishful thinking.
And fans who support mindset of having anime with no throwbacks to past and no return of older characters, but older pokemon as well are honestly sending to directors ands producers signal of current status quo and formula being acceptable and popular never amounting to anything being changed in how is any character not named Ash treated in this show.