Do We Want New TYPES? (Yes)

[Marionette]

The question is not necessarily whether 17 is enough. Of course it is. You know what else? 151 Pokemon were enough, too. 251 were enough. Etc. That doesn't mean we can't want more. Yes, the types are interesting as they are, and yes, the game will work perfectly fine without the addition of new ones. The world will keep turning without them. I fully acknowledge this.

That said, I completely would not mind a few new types, and it could even be interesting. As long as they work hard to balance it (as they could stand to do this with the existing types), I don't think it's going to hurt anything. The world's not going to stop turning because of them.

As for what kind, I don't know.

I like the idea of Wind/Air just because that happens to be my favorite element, but it's obviously covered elsewhere, so I wouldn't really suggest it as a type. Personally, I find Flying a little silly alongside more elemental types. It's just a handful of air moves plus moves that involve, well, flying, with the other odd bird-based move. Fish-type Pokemon don't get a Swimming element. There's not a Biting element for moves like Crunch or Bite. Wind/Air would have been better, but c'est la vie. It's not changing now.

Light? Maybe. Yeah, it's covered elsewhere, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be a little bit of restructuring. It could work, I think.

Sound? Not a bad idea, especially given that there are a lot of sound-based things in the game, as others have pointed out. I like the idea of Steel being weak to it.

Cosmic? Hmm, I'm not sure about this one, but I wouldn't mind it, either. It is a good point that they'd really need to flesh it out, though, 'cause it doesn't take two hands to count the Pokemon that could be considered cosmic currently, and most of them are legendaries.

 

[Some_Gamer_Dude]

The problem with Cosmic is it's a description, not an Ability. Look at the 17 types we have, all something the pokemon can do, not something they are, hence why Flying is not Bird. Metal/Steel is nearly the only exception, but it refers to the Pokemon's body being as hard as steel, which is why many pokemon can learn metal claw or iron tail.

While Sound is a good idea, one has to remember, it is already covered. Normal, as in things anyone can do. Although, an ability to increase the effectiveness of the attacks, like an inverted Soundproof, would be a great idea for the Whismer and Jigglypuff lines, alternitively, an ability that makes Sound Based Attacks more effective on certain types, like an inverted Thick Fat.

 

[Keegman]

The problem with Cosmic is it's a description, not an Ability. Look at the 17 types we have, all something the pokemon can do, not something they are, hence why Flying is not Bird. Metal/Steel is nearly the only exception, but it refers to the Pokemon's body being as hard as steel, which is why many pokemon can learn metal claw or iron tail.

I can concede that.

While Sound is a good idea, one has to remember, it is already covered. Normal, as in things anyone can do. Although, an ability to increase the effectiveness of the attacks, like an inverted Soundproof, would be a great idea for the Whismer and Jigglypuff lines, alternitively, an ability that makes Sound Based Attacks more effective on certain types, like an inverted Thick Fat.

But what you're suggesting there is basically just saying, "Let's do everything we can to make Sound act just like a type, without actually making it a type." To which one HAS to respond, Why not just make it a type?

 

[BBHood]

But what you're suggesting there is basically just saying, "Let's do everything we can to make Sound act just like a type, without actually making it a type." To which one HAS to respond, Why not just make it a type?

I have to agree there. I feel as though Sound should be a type more than any other idea (I'm persoanlly not a fan of the idea of a "light" type). They've already established Sound-based attacks and abilities enough as is, I think they should go all the way with it.

 

[Marionette]

I don't really get the argument that the other elements are things Pokemon can do. Water? Grass? Electric (an adjective just like Cosmic)? Psychic (again, adjective)? These are not verbs. Flying is the exception there, along with Fighting, and Poison could be argued to be one since it has the capacity to be a verb. All other types merely describe the element or, yes, ability associated with the Pokemon (or lack of one in the case of Normal, which is another one that simply describes what Pokemon "are" rather than what they "do"), but element reigns. In any case, the types are just broad categories based on a Pokemon's abilities and characteristics- what it is and what it does. To illustrate further, would you say that someone "does psychic stuff" or would you say that someone "is psychic"?

Cosmic moves would have to do with space, just as Electric moves have to do with electricity and Psychic moves (generally) have to do with the mind. To make it fit a little better with most of the other types, it could be called Space or Cosmos. Still, it has company in Electric and Psychic if it's left Cosmic.

 

[010camaro]

As it is currently, 17 types correct? This is not likely to change at all. Yet what new types could be introduced, if any?

I was discussing with a friend of mine about this a little while ago. we both came to a single conclusion.. an Artifical/Digital type. The issue with this type is that it would only serve the Porygon Family (ASAWK). After reading the first page, Glass seems interesting. It could have a similar functionality to Ground Types as Steel does to the Rock type. But there is more than just that.

Light is not the opposite of Dark. Dark is "Criminal" in move set. Which is why fighting can beat it. Light would signify something Divine. which itself could be a Type, changing the Generation 4 legendaries to that type in stead of Dragon.

It is very difficult to think of other types. Plastic could be a type as well. but that downright seems utterly foolish.

What about types based upon energy source? In the TCG, there is no "Normal Energy" just "Colorless." and since, there is no technical Energy in the VG. Energy however is covered mostly by Electric, and making an Oil Pokemon would be Electric/Poison, Coal = Elec/Rock. Propane/natural gas = Elec/Ghost or Elec/flying. Uranium = Elec/Steel (Uranium is a type of Metal)

Realistically speaking, there are nearly no new types that can be added. Artificial/Digital, Plastic, Divine, "Cosmic" (sounds utterly foolish but better than Magic).

the best bet would be to Divide the "Normal" types into newer types that would fit better.

An i'm pretty sure much of this has already been addressed

 

[Keegman]

I was discussing with a friend of mine about this a little while ago. we both came to a single conclusion.. an Artifical/Digital type. The issue with this type is that it would only serve the Porygon Family (ASAWK). After reading the first page, Glass seems interesting. It could have a similar functionality to Ground Types as Steel does to the Rock type. But there is more than just that.

Did someone mention Glass?

It is very difficult to think of other types. Plastic could be a type as well. but that downright seems utterly foolish.

It does, but you fold that into the artificial idea and you've dealt with that. If they did do something like that, I'd like it if they stuck in onto Voltorb and Electrode, just to confirm that they evolved from Pokeballs.

On that note, why isn't Electrode based on a Great Ball? GASP. IT SHOULD EVOLVE INTO A MASTER BALL. Surely I am the only person to have ever thought of this.

What about types based upon energy source? In the TCG, there is no "Normal Energy" just "Colorless." and since, there is no technical Energy in the VG. Energy however is covered mostly by Electric, and making an Oil Pokemon would be Electric/Poison, Coal = Elec/Rock. Propane/natural gas = Elec/Ghost or Elec/flying. Uranium = Elec/Steel (Uranium is a type of Metal)

Not entirely, dude. Torkoal is clearly a kiln, and it's fire/rock. On the Uranium note, though, I like the idea of a radioactive pokemon, but I like it better as steel/poison (mainly because they could stand to do something different with poison).

 

[010camaro]

Did someone mention Glass?



It does, but you fold that into the artificial idea and you've dealt with that. If they did do something like that, I'd like it if they stuck in onto Voltorb and Electrode, just to confirm that they evolved from Pokeballs.

On that note, why isn't Electrode based on a Great Ball? GASP. IT SHOULD EVOLVE INTO A MASTER BALL. Surely I am the only person to have ever thought of this.



Not entirely, dude. Torkoal is clearly a kiln, and it's fire/rock. On the Uranium note, though, I like the idea of a radioactive pokemon, but I like it better as steel/poison (mainly because they could stand to do something different with poison).

Yes, someone did. If not here, the somewhere else

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Not entirely, dude. Torkoal is clearly a kiln, and it's fire/rock.

Torkoal is pure Fire. And a tortoise. :-/ FYI.

The question is not necessarily whether 17 is enough. Of course it is. You know what else? 151 Pokemon were enough, too. 251 were enough. Etc. That doesn't mean we can't want more. Yes, the types are interesting as they are, and yes, the game will work perfectly fine without the addition of new ones. The world will keep turning without them. I fully acknowledge this.

That said, I completely would not mind a few new types, and it could even be interesting. As long as they work hard to balance it (as they could stand to do this with the existing types), I don't think it's going to hurt anything. The world's not going to stop turning because of them.

As for what kind, I don't know.

All right, then, let me pose this question. Why do we NEED any more types? If you've got problems with game balance, what will the addition of new types solve that tweaking of the current type chart won't?

True, you could turn this question back on me and ask why we NEED any more pokemon, but I argue that those are two entirely different things. Pokemon, like it or not, is a cash cow. New generations -- and thus, new pokemon -- are going to continue to be brought out until it stops making money. 100 or so new pokemon is therefore expected with each new generation. Adding new TYPES, however, is something that's only been done once; it is not a regular occurrence, nor will it be. Whomever decides these things has decided that there are no glaring problems with one type dominating the others (with respects to IN GAME consequences) as there was in Gen 1 with Psychic, and apparently, that's that.

There won't be any new types. Just. F*cking. Deal with it.

 

[010camaro]

All right, then, let me pose this question. Why do we NEED any more types? If you've got problems with game balance, what will the addition of new types solve that tweaking of the current type chart won't?

True, you could turn this question back on me and ask why we NEED any more pokemon, but I argue that those are two entirely different things. Pokemon, like it or not, is a cash cow. New generations -- and thus, new pokemon -- are going to continue to be brought out until it stops making money. 100 or so new pokemon is therefore expected with each new generation. Adding new TYPES, however, is something that's only been done once; it is not a regular occurrence, nor will it be. Whomever decides these things has decided that there are no glaring problems with one type dominating the others (with respects to IN GAME consequences) as there was in Gen 1 with Psychic, and apparently, that's that.

There won't be any new types. Just. F*cking. Deal with it.

So much angst. This is merely a hypothetical. IF they introduce new types, what would we want to see?

When I see a person completely throw the topic out the window by just saying that it will never happen, two thoughts come to my mind.

1. They are frustrated that they can't think og anything and want to ruin it for the rest of us.
2. They actually have great ideas, but are afraid of being mocked or honestly think that it won't ever happen so there is no point.

To the latter i say this. Why not just mention it? If you have a good idea that you would like to see for the game, voice it. If you don't then the game developers will never see it and implement it. If you at least state is as a possibility and give good reasoning for it, they might actually consider adding it to the game.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Why not just mention it? If you have a good idea that you would like to see for the game, voice it. If you don't then the game developers will never see it and implement it. If you at least state is as a possibility and give good reasoning for it, they might actually consider adding it to the game.

You know this how?

 

[010camaro]

You know this how?

I actually implemented an idea for another game. Back before Halo 2 was released, i mentioned over a public poll that being able to play the Battle of reach would be an interesting Idea. its happening now.

I also mentioned back before the release of Pokemon Crystal that the next generation should remake the previous games.

and last but not least, months before New Super Mario Brothers was even announced, i mentioned that it would be a novel idea to remake the original nintendo games from the NES, like they did for the GBA, but with much better graphics and playability for the whole family (i.e. Four players).

Whether or not i was the first to mention them or not is not the question. Those ideas were mentioned and Nintendo got wind of it. If the people want something bad enough and ask for it, and continually discuss it to the point where it becomes a fully fleshed out idea, then they are much easier to impliment.

 

[Steampunk Abortions]

Just to let you guys know, I was joking about the Metal/Steel thing. Haha.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

I actually implemented an idea for another game. Back before Halo 2 was released, i mentioned over a public poll that being able to play the Battle of reach would be an interesting Idea. its happening now.

I also mentioned back before the release of Pokemon Crystal that the next generation should remake the previous games.

and last but not least, months before New Super Mario Brothers was even announced, i mentioned that it would be a novel idea to remake the original nintendo games from the NES, like they did for the GBA, but with much better graphics and playability for the whole family (i.e. Four players).

Whether or not i was the first to mention them or not is not the question. Those ideas were mentioned and Nintendo got wind of it. If the people want something bad enough and ask for it, and continually discuss it to the point where it becomes a fully fleshed out idea, then they are much easier to impliment.

Right you revolutionized Pokemon, Super Mario Bros. and Halo games. I'm going to forget I ever read that nonsense.

We can keep making assumptions and guesses sure, nobody is stopping us, but people get pretty annoyed when kids make assumptions and completely forget about the games balance or just make off the wall ones.

Just to let you guys know, I was joking about the Metal/Steel thing. Haha.

Right, couldn't come up with anything else.

 

[010camaro]

Right you revolutionized Pokemon, Super Mario Bros. and Halo games. I'm going to forget I ever read that nonsense.

We can keep making assumptions and guesses sure, nobody is stopping us, but people get pretty annoyed when kids make assumptions and completely forget about the games balance or just make off the wall ones.

I never said that i revolutionized it. I just said that i mentioned the idea before it happened.

And I never said that making assumptions were bad, or that the balance of the game should be disregarded for the sole fact of adding more types. That is actually the most vital part of the drafting process. If you disregard everything before hand just so that you can do what you want, that virtually destroys everything.

I am an avid fan of Alternate History, and the process of throwing away everything just to get a desired result is known as "Butterfly netting." While making outlandish remarks with no actual value or reason is simply "Alien Space Bat Magic"

I am willing to put money down that, if we were all to work towards adding just a single type, with all the Type effectiveness's worked out, the idea itself wouldn't seem too outlandish at all.

 

[Keegman]

Torkoal is pure Fire. And a tortoise. :-/ FYI.

Crap. You're right on the fire thing. But I still say it's a kiln/tortoise.


I admit this is a purely hypothetical, but I always laid out that this is something I'd like, not that I expect. It's pure fantasy, and there's no reason to harsh on the buzz.

That being said, just because it's only happened once is no reason to assume it'll never happen again, even if it won't be a regular occurrence. We simply don't know enough about GF's process make any assumptions. I for one have never heard of any announcement about pokemon or the games that came straight from GameFreak, instead of the mass Pokemon media machine. One thing I don't like about Japanese developers as opposed to American ones is how closed-mouthed they are about their development process. This is not to say that all American developers are perfect (Valve, while open in many areas, has been cruelly reluctant to answer any questions regarding Half-Life Episode 3). Like I've said in another thread, I've never seen a scrap of concept art of a single Pokemon. Not even Pikachu. The only acknowledgment I've seen of a Pokemon being an element of game design, and not just a description of what it is INgame, was something about Shellos and Gastrodon being holdovers from Generation III. In fact, I think that's what made me realize I'd never seen any concept art. As a Western gamer, and a fan of the design process, this is absolutely retarded to me (from a fiscal standpoint, too. I'd pay money for an art book).

Another thing Japanese developers don't do is listen to fan feedback, ESPECIALLY not fan feedback from the West. Argue with me if you want, but I can honestly tell you that the closest thing I've ever HEARD of a Japanese developer listening to fan wishes have been a recent series of statements from Squenix people acknowledging the widespread desire for an FFVII remake, and saying how utterly impossible it would be to do it in less than ten years. Recently on Kotaku one of their contributors wrote a very, very long article about why he was sick of living in Japan, and this included some specifics about how insolar Japanese developers are. They do NOT talk to each other, they do not play each others' games, and ideas come from the top down.

Two fairly pertinent quotes:

"Once, when I was working for a Japanese game company as something of a liaison to help them develop games with a more future-proof "western" method, I suggested that every employee be, at all points in the process, encouraged to offer input on things such as game design. The initial reaction was, "That's what the game designers do!" It took days of near-futile conversation to uncover the controversial finding that, prior to designing a game for the first time, people like Shigeru Miyamoto had actually never designed any games. To be most blunt, modern Japanese games are so soulless because the only people who make them are people who make games. You need some outside influence, I said. And anyway, maybe some of these people who like videogames enough to learn how to program them might have some decent ideas of what they like or don't like in game design? What happened, eventually, was an email: "ALL EMPLOYEES ARE REQUIRED TO REPORT TO THE CONFERENCE ROOM IMMEDIATELY FOR A BRAINSTORMING SESSION RE: GAME DESIGN". Some part-time kid fresh out of college sat there with a notebook, writing down literally everything everyone said. The meeting was a terrible failure. "That didn't work," someone said. "So much for that idea," someone else said."

and

We have centuries of literature and decades of film from which to draw artistic inspiration; we have 1080p graphics and processors capable of displaying tens of thousands of high-definition polygons rotating at the scale speed of sound. And though game designers all know that more interesting methods of communication are possible, when you hit enemies in Final Fantasy XIII, huge numbers fly out in every direction. Huge, horse-choking, golden, gleaming five-digit numerals explode outward everywhere. The game never shows you how many hit points the monsters have. It shows you the shit out of how many hit points of damage you're doing. They do this because this is how it used to be, so that's probably how it should be, forever. The customer is already in the store, and they're going to keep yelling at them, telling them to come in.

That last line works in the greater context of the article, which is very good, and very distressing, and you should read.

http://kotaku.com/5484581/japan-its-not-funny-anymore

All of this is my way of saying, I realize that NOTHING I say here will effect game development, or even matters. Very little of what gets said on an internet forum does. I came here to trade pokemon because I'm sick of the GTS, but while I'm here, I felt like sharing an idea I had that I thought was nifty. Any resemblance anything in this thread has to some future reality, though, is simply the stars aligning.

I'm still not willing to rule out new types, though. A future where the developers feel completely content to milk the cow they have is completely feasible to me. However, so is a future where they inundate us with new types in order to milk the cow in an entirely different way (children love new things, but they really love supernew things).


So rather than succumb to the harsh realities of balance and stultifying Japanese business practices, howsabout we throw caution to the wind and Just. Fucking. Have fun with it.

On that note, I submit for your cruel and calculating consideration, Baby type. Because I liked how the TCG treated baby pokemon when they first came out (and might still, I have no idea), and, like I said in the first post, Normal doesn't have to mean catchall.

... And Blanket type. Because this blanket is ROCKING it.

 

[Terra Force]

Light, Sound, and Cosmic would be best, IMO.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

And I never said that making assumptions were bad, or that the balance of the game should be disregarded for the sole fact of adding more types. That is actually the most vital part of the drafting process. If you disregard everything before hand just so that you can do what you want, that virtually destroys everything.

I said that's what most kids do, I never accused you of anything.

I am willing to put money down that, if we were all to work towards adding just a single type, with all the Type effectiveness's worked out, the idea itself wouldn't seem too outlandish at all.

Great and then what? We have a new type and nothing to do with it.

 

[010camaro]

I said that's what most kids do, I never accused you of anything.

Great and then what? We have a new type and nothing to do with it.

That's part of the fun of thinking of new ideas. We think of something, Nintendo just happens to stumble upon it, they pass it along to GF and the pokemon company. Both of them tweak it a bit, and there is a new type in the game

Or, if not, then it just becomes a type that can be used by persons who want to use it for an RP. I do that quite a bit.

 

[Glacia]

I think that there are enough types of pokemon.
But if a new one comes along, be welcome ^^