Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

[Hellion]

This is the thread for more in-depth discussion about Cabernet's personality, relationship with Dent, storyline, etc.

Personally, I love Cabernet as a rival. She is two cups of crazy mixed with one cup of adorable and one cup of woobie that's blended into a zesty rival with a refreshing taste. Ok, I'll cut the cooking references. She's Best Wishes' Harley or Urara, that really weirdly rival that's angry at one of the main characters and has made it their life's goal to beat them, being supremely entertaining doing so, though she distances herself from the first two because she has a legitimate reason to be angry at Dent since his arrogance and attitude made her give up on her dreams to be a trainer. She's highly entertaining as a character.

As a rival, I actually really like the dynamic between her and Dent. I don't really mind that she's not that good at sommeliering, because I kinda feel that that's the point. She's trying to become a sommelier solely to get back at Dent and it's holding her back, because in her mind being a sommelier is about trashing the relationship between Pokémon and trainer, which she does to Satoshi upon meeting him. It's fun to see that she seems to learn from Dent that there's more to sommeliering than that and that it's actually about strenghtening the bonds between human and pokémon. I could see her character ending one of two ways, either she'll become a better sommelier thanks to Dent or, and I think this is more likely, she'll turn her back on sommeliering because she'll forgive Dent, and we'll see her in the League.

 

[FinalArcadia]

I like Burgundy as a character, and I think that she is an infinitely more interesting rival than, say, Trip, but I don't know how much I like her role as a rival. To me, a rival should be a legitimate threat, and Burgundy just doesn't seem focused enough to cause trouble for Cilan in battle. And I don't see her ever getting to a point where that would be the case (and this is also my problem with Bianca).

Burgundy and Cilan do have very entertaining interactions together, though. They're suitably over-the-top enough for each other, and any episode featuring the two of them is definitely a standout for Best Wishes.

 

[Hitomi]

In the sense of the word "rival," Cabernet isn't much of one to Dento. As a relatively new trainer, she got the crap beat out of her twice by Dento in Pokémon battles, and when it comes to Sommeliering, she's always one step behind him. He hasn't seemed to learn much from her, instead assuming the mentor role (whether she likes it or not).

However, I think if we look at her point of view, Dento is a good rival for her. She tries hard and her purpose in life is finally beating him. She studied to become a Sommelier (which, as Dento said, is a tough task even to be a C-class one). I have a feeling next time they battle, she'll actually make him work up a sweat; even her Sommeliering skills have improved since she first started, and that's because I think she's learned from him, even if she adamantly insists that he's an arrogant, self-righteous, egotistical... er... dork. (Which is all true, so I don't see why Cabernet's haters don't like her saying so.) In my opinion, that's what a rival is supposed to do - make you learn about what you're doing wrong so you can improve on it. This is the case; that's why I think he's a good rival for her.

They play off each other so well. Because Cabernet has shown signs of improvement from appearance #1 to #2, I have no doubt that before too long she'll give Dento a run for his money. I want to see her win at least once to give him something to think on for a change.

 

[Aestivate]

Cabernet is so full of crazy and the dynamic between her and Dent is a lovely, lovely one. He's the unknown rival to her but he turns into such a dodgy nice guy when it comes to her that sommeliershipping is the only straight Dent ship you will ever find me supporting he's so supportive of her doing well and it confuses the fuck out of her which is just endearing and wonderful and adorable to see. She is probably my favorite of the girl rivals personality-wise. I would love to see more and more of her with Langley. :3

 

[Caseydia]

Hehe. I remember when she first showed up and everyone had hated her and now they say she's more interesting than Trip. however, she has shown up less than him combined. I hope she is not traded off as a clone of Ursula. Because she was a good rival too but she was only showed a few times and felt she needed more time. Especially since Cilan is very passionate about his goal.

 

[garrison-san]

Cabernet/Burgundy is easily my favourite character of Best Wishes, and of the series as a whole (tied only with Conway). She's a psychotic underdog determined to prevail against the odds - which is totally adorable - and I think her spunk and determination in the face of adversity as formidable and insidious as Dento is something to truly be admired. Plus she has killer chemistry with just about anyone she interacts with. I love her, I sympathise with her, and I hope to see her kick some serious A-Class Sommelier butt within the near future.^^

 

[Jaye]

I am pretty much in agreement with everyone else. Carbernet is a likeable character who I actually want to see beat Cilan at least some point during the series. She's an interesting rival because she's the plucky underdog that we can see improving and not that superior trainer that the main character constantly has to catch up with. Rivals like that don't appear often enough on the show and it's a refreshing change.

 

[MizuTaipu]

Cabernet's my favorite out of all of the Best Wishes rivals. Now that Musashi's taken a serious role, Cabernet fills in her tsundere role wonderfully in Best Wishes. I love how paranoid she is toward everything like during her "tasting" of Satoshi's Pokémon, she goes crazy at the slightest thing. I also like how she just focuses her attention on Dent 24/7 and ignores everyone else around her. So yes, she's an interesting rival.

 

[Insanish Danish]

Oh, I adore her. She's probably my favorite Best Wishes rival, and her interactions with not only Cilan but pretty much everyone else are just fantastic. I just love how insane she is, and it's adorable how pissed off she gets when things don't go her way. I think she has one of the greatest personalities any character on this show has ever had, and I'm just sad we didn't get to have someone like her on the show sooner. I love her and I hope we get to see way more of her before Best Wishes ends.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

If there is one thing i like about Cabernet(or Burgundy)is that her rivalry with Cilan has purpose, some actual maning put into it. Her motives behind becoming Connoisseur were of wrong nature, wanting to revenge Cilan and beat him at his own game. He was apparently responsible for Cabernet quitting to pursue career as trainer causing revolt and anger in her character. What i like about this is that she isnt one of those rivals which are usually superior to main protagonists having to catch up with them. Cabernet is opposite having to prove herself to others and Cilan falling behind, realizing how she is still far from his level which affects greatly her self esteem,and beauty in it is that character can learn and develop from this rivalry becoming better as person and realize what path is right one for her to follow. Her sweet and insecure side mixed with flaming attitude is endearing and vertiginous complimenting Cilan personality well,and whether its battle or connoisseur showdown commenting other pokemon and relationship with trainer,its fun to watch them compete against each other with their rivalry having tension,charm and grace of Swans.

Cabernet is what i call rival being done right with writers using different approach, compared to get go overused and cliched route of main character having to catch up with his opponent. She has stamina and certain doze of appeal and i could see her staying past Unova ,in case Cilan gets kept as main character for one more region.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Cabernet's alright/decent. Her character execution and writing has something more to be desired though. She's ok, and obviously she loves her Pokemon since when Murando was knocked out by Gamagaru she went over and comforted it. But, I feel like the writers are flanderizing(is this even a word?) her a bit to much, and really made her too much of "Dento's Toy". What I mean is, through a lot of her appearances she's been portrayed as this bitch who's basically there to do nothing but complain and wine(Pun not intended) about Dento. When Tsutarja ate Dento's food, when Dento battled Luke, When Dento was entering the tourney, and she was so obsessed with Dento everything. She wants nothing but her precious revenge against Dento, but then after that "what is there?" what can they do? She's pretty much done and that's a pretty one-note role in my opinion. She's just basically this girl in the clique who truly seems to have nothing to do but, stalk Dento and bitch about him all the time. Even her catch phrase is a carbon copy of Dento's with, s'il vous plait and Bonjour tacked on. And, her first appearance was just pretty bland overall to me. It was so cheap to me how Ishizumai took out Futachimaru, given it never even battled under Dento's ownership until then and Futachimaru is the same Mijumaru that lost to Yanappu and Cabernet supposedly trained that Mijumaru and evolved it into a Futachimaru. I don't agree on Yanappu's win over Mebujika given the typing and low amount of attacks on an evolved Pokemon. But, I can let it slide given Yanappu is strong. Of course Dento tasted her Mijumaru before and you would think the writers would let Futachimaru get a little poetic justice since it evolved and trained and had a type advantage but, close but no cigar tired from simply using Fury Cutter a few times and Shell Blade evening out with X-Scissor. I find her personality to be annoying at times and a bit vain and overdone. Truly a rocky execution in my opinion, and I hope the writers can fix a few of these things in the future.

 

[Shinneth]

Without a doubt, Burgundy is among the best of BW's rivals and a very nice foil for Cilan. I really hope she appears more often before the series ends. As a character, she's fantastic, as her tendencies to hold grudges and pretending to know what she's doing make her a very entertaining character. And honestly, in retrospect, I pretty much agree with what she said in her debut. Snivy and Scraggy aside, Ash's Unova team is absolutely suck-tastic and should all be replaced. Isn't it sad when the writers fuck up Ash's team so badly that the adversary who says such a harsh thing actually has a valid point? The Don Battle, for all its problems, at least showed that it wasn't just Cilan and Ash that Burgundy could bounce off well. Really, aside from her unfortunate early defeat (the saga really went downhill in terms of match-ups as time progressed), Burgundy's one of the few characters who didn't get fucked over in some manner due to that craptastic arc.

As a rival, Cilan's rival, admittedly I was at first a little miffed that Burgundy's threat factor was virtually nothing (since it seems all the GOOD rivals this series are no threat at all while the blandest, most boring and uncompelling rivals are the real threats), but I hadn't thought of the reversal of the typical protagonist-struggling-to-match-the-rival scenario, which is actually rather clever. It's true that Burgundy has a distorted perspective of what it means to be a sommelier and that her vendetta against Cilan is what's holding her back. Signs of change in their relationship were already apparent by the end of the Don Battle, which is a good sign, and I hope that means Burgundy will return much improved in terms of her performance. Otherwise, I really couldn't ask for more in an entertaining and likable rival that's perfectly suited towards the kind of character that Cilan is. We know he's got a slew of canon fangirls, so a female rival who bitterly hates his guts seems totally appropriate and has made for the most entertaining banter the show's had so far.

Plus, Ash having to be on the receiving end of her brash negativity was a priceless sight to behold... and again, not so off-the-mark as it once seemed. At least for us beyond the fourth wall!

 

[Hellion]

As suspected Futachimaru and Doryuuzu are going claw to claw. Still a tad effy on the idea of Cabernet and Iris battling. Makes no sense. Doryuuzu and Iris have a great relationship, and have been together since child hood. Cabernet is known for her broken Sommelier skills, so it would be a bit counter-development productive if she diagnosed their relationship as crap and when on to beat them. Plus again Futachimaru was beaten by Dento's newly caught hermit crap so the power-up does seem a tad forced. I can't really see how the writers are gonna do things.

Responding here, because this is more about my take on Cabernet's character as a whole and her rivalry with Dent. I disagree somewhat. In my opinion, I think that Cabernet's broken skills as a sommelier are actually totally intentional on the writers' part, and it's interesting that for a character who's supposedly not about battling, all of Cabernet's appearances had some heavy battling related to them. Her last episode was about her gaining respect for Dent's skills as a sommelier, and they left promising to polish their skills. To me, it's obvious that Cabernet will have trained both as a battler and as a sommelier during that time. I wonder if this tournament could be where she shifts from the latter to the former. I'm really interested to see what Dent would say if he tastes Futachimaru, a Pokémon he twice defeated. I think that it could be a good opportunity for Dent to recognize Cabernet's skills as a battler and praise her for the progress done with her training (since it's obvious she still trains and battles with her Pokémon). In turn, it could be interesting to see Cabernet realize that there was truth in his initial assessment of her, since she now respects his skills as a sommelier, which could prompt her to realize how far she came, and chose to pursue battling instead of or in addition to sommeliering, setting up Cabernet in the League.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Responding here, because this is more about my take on Cabernet's character as a whole and her rivalry with Dent. I disagree somewhat. In my opinion, I think that Cabernet's broken skills as a sommelier are actually totally intentional on the writers' part, and it's interesting that for a character who's supposedly not about battling, all of Cabernet's appearances had some heavy battling related to them.

I realize her crap Sommelier skills are intentional.

To me, it's obvious that Cabernet will have trained both as a battler and as a sommelier during that time. I wonder if this tournament could be where she shifts from the latter to the former. I'm really interested to see what Dent would say if he tastes Futachimaru, a Pokémon he twice defeated. I think that it could be a good opportunity for Dent to recognize Cabernet's skills as a battler and praise her for the progress done with her training (since it's obvious she still trains and battles with her Pokémon).

I don't think it's "obvious" she's trained she might have not trained at all for all we know. And Dento beating Futachimaru twice and having him taste it in it's battle against Doryuuzu seems a tad weird imo, especially when it's not battling Dento's Pokemon and has no real dynamic against Iris and her Doryuuzu.

In turn, it could be interesting to see Cabernet realize that there was truth in his initial assessment of her, since she now respects his skills as a sommelier, which could prompt her to realize how far she came, and chose to pursue battling instead of or in addition to sommeliering, setting up Cabernet in the League.

I don't really see her going to the league at all. It just would seem entirely forced if she so happened to show up at the league being all "Haha, I collected 8 badges without you knowing." Especially when she's more of Dento's rivalry when Satoshi's. Unless the writers are going to pull a Kengo and have her beat Dento after Satoshi beats her at the league and that being her farewell or something.

 

[Caseydia]

Burgundy is a very interesting rival but I wish her interactions and her training was more with Cilan since she and him have similar goals.

 

[Hellion]

I don't think it's "obvious" she's trained she might have not trained at all for all we know.

She raised it from a Mijumaru to a Futachimaru. She didn't stop battling and training when she became a sommelier, even winning a Gym Badge. Also, it's interesting to note that she's signing up to two battle tournaments. She specifically comes there to battle, Dent or not. Finally, when Dent and her left the Don Battle, she said she would train and hone her skill as a sommelier. We have no reason to think she hasn't gotten better.

"Haha, I collected 8 badges without you knowing."

We know she won one and that her goal prior to being defeated by Dent was to pursue Gyms, and with her attitude towards Dent changing and softening, it would make total sense in my opinion.

 

[Cinderfella]

Do I find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival? Hell Yeah! I just love her energy and I think she's funny as fuck. She also is shown to have flaws and a much softer side, and like Ursula and Harley, I actually liked seeing her care for her Pokemon even when they lost. I am always TEAM BURGUNDY I find her interactions with Dent to be absolutely beautiful and gracious, and funny. I also really enjoy her design and her team as a collection. I hope she becomes a prime example of "if it's first you don't succeed, get yourself up and try again" in this show because while she has suffered a few losses, she doesn't let it affect her ambitions. I really do hope she is in the League, along with Langley, because Bel can't save that whole thing by herself, and Kenyan as well as boring ass rival Trip just don't bring me any satisfaction.

I must say though, it sucks that:

Spoiler

She looses to Iris in BW071.

Knowing Burgundy though, she will still find a way to be interesting

 

[Hitomi]

I don't think it's "obvious" she's trained she might have not trained at all for all we know.

I can't think of anything else she might be doing in between the Don Tournament and the Donamite. Unless she sat around twiddling her thumbs muttering curses at Dento from afar for, what thirty episodes? Bel obviously trained, Kenyan obviously trained, Langley obviously trained, why would Cabernet be the only one not to train?

And Dento beating Futachimaru twice and having him taste it in it's battle against Doryuuzu seems a tad weird imo, especially when it's not battling Dento's Pokemon and has no real dynamic against Iris and her Doryuuzu.

Dento tasting Cabernet's Pokémon in her battle against Dento's traveling partner Iris makes sense to me. Sommeliers test the bond between trainer and Pokémon. He'd undoubtedly want to taste Futachimaru to see if Cabernet did as she promised in their last parting and work to be better next time they met up. He has an interest in how Cabernet is progressing as both a trainer and as a Sommelier. It would be wasted opportunity if he didn't check to see if the bond between her and her starter improved since his first encounter with her.

 

[Sweet Veil]

I can't think of anything else she might be doing in between the Don Tournament and the Donamite. Unless she sat around twiddling her thumbs muttering curses at Dento from afar for, what thirty episodes? Bel obviously trained, Kenyan obviously trained, Langley obviously trained, why would Cabernet be the only one not to train?

Bel has obviously been improving, possibly Kenyan as well, but I don't think it's "obvious" at all that she's trained. No member of Satoshi-Tachi has trained either, so it's not that obvious.

Dento tasting Cabernet's Pokémon in her battle against Dento's traveling partner Iris makes sense to me. Sommeliers test the bond between trainer and Pokémon. He'd undoubtedly want to taste Futachimaru to see if Cabernet did as she promised in their last parting and work to be better next time they met up. He has an interest in how Cabernet is progressing as both a trainer and as a Sommelier. It would be wasted opportunity if he didn't check to see if the bond between her and her starter improved since his first encounter with her.

True. But, Cabernet and Iris don't really have a dynamic so it seems weird I don't think they've even interacted that much at all.

 

[Hitomi]

Bel has obviously been improving, possibly Kenyan as well, but I don't think it's "obvious" at all that she's trained. No member of Satoshi-Tachi has trained either, so it's not that obvious.

You're suggesting that out of the entire cast of rivals, Cabernet is the only one who is stuck exactly where she has been all along. I disagree; from her first appearance where Dento curbstomped her to her battle with Satoshi in the Don Battle tournament, there was a difference in her battling style. In her battle against Dento, she just spammed powerful attacks without taking into account defensive strategies. But in the tournament - regardless of whether you think she's still weak because she lost against Satoshi's newly caught Gamagaru (and that's not the first time, or the last, in this series that a rarely used/never used Pokémon has defeated a well-trained Pokémon; see also Satoshi's Gantle and Yacon/Doryuzuu or Kurumayu vs that guy with the horrible horrible pants Arti) - she used strategy. She fell short in the end, but against anyone not named Satoshi, I think it very well might have worked for her. There was a definite amount of training evident, and she definitely took Dento's advice to heart, even if she didn't want to admit it out loud. That's precisely why I think she will prove that she's learned, trained, and studied to become better since her last appearance.

True. But, Cabernet and Iris don't really have a dynamic so it seems weird I don't think they've even interacted that much at all.

I don't think it matters who Cabernet is battling. I think Dento would taste Futachimaru regardless of whether he was battling her himself, or whether his friend was battling her, or whether some random CotD was battling her. The point is, Dento wants to see Cabernet do well. He wants to see her improve. He wants her bond with her Pokémon, to improve. Otherwise, he wouldn't bother offering her advice every chance he got (whether in the form of constructive criticism or through battle). In fact, the fact that Dento is already so familiar with Iris and Doryuzuu would make it easy for him to provide Cabernet with a helpful tasting. Being familiar with both battlers would provide him with the ability to match compatibility between the battlers even better.