Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region?

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Changing Ash's traveling companions and rivals helps to keep the show fresh.

Honestly i dont see nothing fresh in constantly changing female characters with each new region doing the same thing(contests) all over again,ditching older characters and threating them like dust.Its rather repetitive and predictable,than anything else.

In my opinion it would be better to focus more on older ones,instead of changing them with each generation.
But to each their own i guess.

You keep saying that, but with no suggestion. So I'd like to hear then, what kind of goal could they connect to battling more, without that character being a lesser version of Ash (the trainer)? And the whole point of characters like Brock and James is to show that not everyone has to be fixated on battle.

I was just pointing out something,but since you are looking for suggestions aside from coordinating,trainer of specific types(with which i dont find nothing wrong),regular trainer like Ash(which most likely wont happen because of obvious reasons),there is also something like pokemon ranger which you already pointed out.

Who knows maybe in 5th generation,there is going to be some new thing.

I dont find any reason to continue with this discussion.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

trainer of specific types(with which i dont find nothing wrong)

They've already done that through Misty. So then people would just see a clone of her (although she wasn't always too heavily involved in battling to begin with). Additionally, people pointed out that in order to fulfill her goal, she was better off working at her gym, where she could encounter tons of trainers looking to battle her Water-only Pokemon.

,regular trainer like Ash(which most likely wont happen because of obvious reasons)

Why would they incorporate two trainers? That'd mean twice the gyms, and strict repetition. People would complain about having a watered down Ash, or too much of the same thing.

there is also something like pokemon ranger which you already pointed out.

This is probably the only one considerable.

I dont find any reason to continue with this discussion.

Ummm, okay? /cares?

Yeah, so the whole incorporating a more battle-oriented goal, suddenly doesn't look as easy.

I wonder if we'll get to see a Ranger/Stylist with the group.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

They've already done that through Misty. So then people would just see a clone of her (although she wasn't always too heavily involved in battling to begin with).

Who says they would have to bring another character.They could just bring Misty back with purpose of advancing her goal,and about her not battling enough,it was more than Brock or Tracey did.Sure writers didnt do enough during Johto with her,but they were doing mistakes with everyone so this isnt surprising.

However times are changed and if Misty returns(probably wont happen) she would be threated better than it was the case before.

Additionally, people pointed out that in order to fulfill her goal, she was better off working at her gym, where she could encounter tons of trainers looking to battle her Water-only Pokemon.

First what people?I encountered twice as many who arent agreeing with this.
And its wrong,gym can only take you to one point.After that further improvement toward what Misty want to achieve isnt possible.Battling mostly against rookies and medium level trainers isnt giving to her and her pokemon enough experience,and the only way for further progress is by travelling again.Being water pokemon master implies being the strongest or one of the strongest water type trainers in the world being on level of at least E4 members,possibly even higher(which is impossible to achieve with her current position),and its more connected with travelling and participating like its Ashs case than staying at one place.Seriously some people need to rewatch older seasons.

Best way to achieve what Misty wants is by travelling,battling against stronger trainers than she encounters at the gym,competing in water based events and learning more about this type in wild,sharping her skills and becoming stronger.

Nevertheless judging by Misty she never considered how being a gym leader is the way for achieving her dream,and became one only out of obligation not wanting to leave the group in the first place.

Going by that logic we could also say how the best way for Ash achieving his goal is by becoming frontier brain or gym leader(so much about that theory).

If its needed ill provide more evidence toward this.

Why would they incorporate two trainers? That'd mean twice the gyms, and strict repetition. People would complain about having a watered down Ash, or too much of the same thing.

Thats why i said it "most likely wont happen".

Yeah, so the whole incorporating a more battle-oriented goal, suddenly doesn't look as easy.

It looks more easy than you think.I provided examples,as for you throwing everything away which i said is not my problem.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

We don't need another type exclusive trainer. That's probably the main reason they had Brock abandon his rock type status, type-exclusive trainers puts a limit on the Pokemon you can capture.

Since Misty caught only water types (sans Togepi), it put a real limit on the Pokemon the writers could give her. Squirtle and Totodile were starters so Ash got them, (back then only Ash got the starters, unlike now where they split them up), and only a handful of water Pokemon can battle on land.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

We don't need another type exclusive trainer. That's probably the main reason they had Brock abandon his rock type status, type-exclusive trainers puts a limit on the Pokemon you can capture.

Well thats what you think,in my opinion this move would bring some variety bringing certain dose of unpredictability.Alot of things can be done with someone who has one type aswell,and many people because of this find Misty and her goal being unique.

Since Misty caught only water types (sans Togepi), it put a real limit on the Pokemon the writers could give her.

Well to be more precise,during her run she also showed interest in some other types like that Odish and Jigglypuff which she wanted to capture,and tehnically she also has that Azurill which is a normal type.

It also depends on type of region,how much water types who cant be on land can battle,move etc.Besides most of water types which Misty has is perfectly capable being outside of water.

Nevertheless if region is rich with water and this types,this doesnt represents an obstacle,and considering how much writers have improved im sure they could find a way to handle this without being a problem,even if geographical position of certain region isnt much amicable to certain types.

p.s.If your against this thats fine,it just happens that i have my own opinion and in this case we dont have agreement.

 

[Grave-E]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

How on earth is a trainer who specialises in one type supposed to bring about a level of unpredictability and variety that a regular trainer who doesn't specialise in anything could? I mean, really now, opinions are opinions, but that's just silly.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

How on earth is a trainer who specialises in one type supposed to bring about a level of unpredictability and variety that a regular trainer who doesn't specialise in anything could? I mean, really now, opinions are opinions, but that's just silly.

With unpredictability i meant that majority wouldnt expect that writers include/bring older character back,and with variety i meant that this move would bring some change and refreshment to the current state of the show providing something different than same old formula.

 

[Sleet]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

And its wrong,gym can only take you to one point.After that further improvement toward what Misty want to achieve isnt possible.Battling mostly against rookies and medium level trainers isnt giving to her and her pokemon enough experience,and the only way for further progress is by travelling again.Being water pokemon master implies being the strongest or one of the strongest water type trainers in the world being on level of at least E4 members,possibly even higher(which is impossible to achieve with her current position),and its more connected with travelling and participating like its Ashs case than staying at one place.Seriously some people need to rewatch older seasons.

How do we know this? We don't see what kind of people come to gyms. Unless she never has to give away a Cascade badge, she's obviously being challenged at her gym. Really, being a gym leader guarantees more trainers to battle. And since not everyone is from Pallet Town, or even Kanto, she won't always be fighting rookies. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Elite 4 were ex-gym leaders. They seem to operate similarly.

As for the one-type thing, if anyone can make it interesting, it's Misty; Water types are more varied than most other types.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

How do we know this? We don't see what kind of people come to gyms. Unless she never has to give away a Cascade badge, she's obviously being challenged at her gym. Really, being a gym leader guarantees more trainers to battle. And since not everyone is from Pallet Town, or even Kanto, she won't always be fighting rookies. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Elite 4 were ex-gym leaders. They seem to operate similarly.

The thing is that majority of challengers are rookies who start their journey in Kanto by first going to challenge Pewter or Cerulean gym to try to earn their badges.Seriuosly comparing gym leaders to E4 members is nothing but being ridiculous.Your overestimating them.They arent glorified high level trainers,their job is to test upcoming challengers to see if they are ready to participate in pokemon league.If you are looking for further proof for example Blaine in one of Kanto episodes mentioned how he is tyred from battling against weak trainers and he wants bigger challenge.

People like Pryce or Blaine are gym leaders for their whole life,but they arent even close to E4 members level.It isnt surprising why gym leaders arent high level trainers,it has something to do with experience and challengers against which they battle.

Compare for example Lorelai E4 member who is ice type master(there is a reason why she is called like this) with Pryce(gym leader of Mahogany Town) who is specialized in ice types,its obvious who is stronger and is on higher level.I can list numerous other examples aswell.


In Mistys case she cant get much stronger with her current position because she and her pokemon arent getting enough experience and her potential is being held back.Loosing sometimes against rookies(yes this happens aswell) is only making situation even worse.As i said the only way is to start travelling again.

Take for example Wallace.He left the gym,later on becoming league champion and contests master.Why?To become stronger and make further steps toward what he wanted to achieve.
Nevertheless you dont become master at certain type by being gym leader,but by travelling,exploring and learning about that type in wild along with improving your skills and strenght through competitions and battles against trainers which provide better challenge than those one which you get at the gym.It was also pointed out in this show that steps which has to be taken coming closer to this goal is also competing in prestige water based events like that Whirl Cup,and you obviouisly cant do that while your at gym.On the top of that judging by Misty she left the gym in order to try to achieve her dream,and while she was travelling she showed interest in E4 members and competitions saying how this is going to help her toward her dream.She never considered how being gym leader means achieving what she wants to be.Sure this can serve her as somekind of stepping stone,but after you reach certain point further improvement isnt possible.
As i said Misty wants to become the worlds greatest water type trainer,and this and title of water pokemon master isnt possible to accomplish at gym.
Its more than obvious.

 

[Duckgon Z]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I'm not gonna gang up on you, but I just want to say that I want Misty to become a strong trainer myself, maybe even E4 level one day. But I DO NOT and she DOES NOT need to travel with Ash for the rest of her days. There's a reason why May left, and Dawn will eventually leave. Besides the real world "advertising" answer, they want/will want to have their own battle styles and ways of thinking and traveling. They want to mature more as people, and they won't do that with Ash.

I'm sure she wants to get stronger and stronger, like May and Dawn needed/will need to get stronger and stronger. So they separate from Ash to achieve that goal and do other things without him. Maybe Misty needs to travel and do her own thing, and I'm sure she can, she's a big girl.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I'm not gonna gang up on you, but I just want to say that I want Misty to become a strong trainer myself, maybe even E4 level one day. But I DO NOT and she DOES NOT need to travel with Ash for the rest of her days.

Ok,but im just pointing point out that all of this possible if she travels with Ash aswell.Dawns is also travelling with Ash and this isnt stopping her from making further steps toward becoming great coordinator.
Nevertheless in pokemon people mostly tend to travell in grouzpsa because in that way is easier for them,and Misty is type of person(as we get to see) who rather likes being in someones company when going/doing something,instead of other way around.

If we are going to look at this things from anime perspective,i dont see nothing wrong with Misty travelling with her friends if she start travelling again,and im sure she would make bigger success by having someone on her side giving her moral suppot than being on her own.Sometimes you can achieve more when you have friends by your side,and if their paths collide somewhere on the road going in the same direction there is nothing wrong with it,if you get what i mean(im willing to explain this in more detailed way if its needed).

From real life perspective in my opinion she deserves one last chance to be part of the main cast before the very end of this show(even if its just for a season or two).


As i already said i respect your and everyones else opinion who is against this,but i have my own and in this subject we dont have agreement.

 

[Grave-E]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

refreshment to the current state of the show providing something different than same old formula.

It's not a refreshing change though, it's just taking an existing concept and putting unessecary restrictions on it. There are so many other avenues to explore with the pokémon creatures that have yet to be looked in to, and 'regular trainer...but with one type!!' is hardly going to offer anything new or exciting when we've already got trainers that have a much more diverse variety of critters to choose from. The whole point of the show is, y'know, pokémon. It's only right that there's always numerous options available.

As for the unpredictability of bringing an old character back...so what? They could bring in a new character that acts in a way or does something completely different to what we're used to. That's unpredictable. They might not bring in another character at all. That's unpredictable. They might have Ash travel alone with Dawn. That's unpredictable. And so on.

 

[Musashi]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Nevertheless in pokemon people mostly tend to travell in grouzps

Who besides Satoshi-tachi and the Rocket-Dan travel in groups? Everyone only seems to meet lone trainers on this show.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Who besides Satoshi-tachi and the Rocket-Dan travel in groups? Everyone only seems to meet lone trainers on this show.

Well, there was Gary during the first season (he was often seen with Cheerleaders [actual cheerleaders, BTW] at his side, and in some episodes, a huge mob of trainers not too far behind.). Also, while technically not a "Group" per-se, Jimmy, Vincent/Jackson, and Marina did form a semi-group in "Legend of Thunder", Oscar and Andi seemed to be a bit of a group, as well as those "champs twins" in the episode where Dawn and Ash did that double team battle.

EDIT:

It's not a refreshing change though, it's just taking an existing concept and putting unessecary restrictions on it. There are so many other avenues to explore with the pokémon creatures that have yet to be looked in to, and 'regular trainer...but with one type!!' is hardly going to offer anything new or exciting when we've already got trainers that have a much more diverse variety of critters to choose from. The whole point of the show is, y'know, pokémon. It's only right that there's always numerous options available.

Meh, it's not any different than how GLs and other trainers, even Champions, seem to have a set of only one type of pokemon. In fact, other than the player, the only other characters with variety towards pokemon types are the Rival, Wally, Cynthia, Maxie/Archie, and Cyrus.

Heck, even Ash himself is a bit restricted, if you really think about it. I mean, he always seems to capture the same formula of pokemon almost every season (Grass Starter, Water pokemon/starter, Fire pokemon/Starter, bird, and random capture.). I mean, using your words of "exploring into new and unexplored concepts", Ash's team should be different every season (like having no starters, having a psychic type, having a small-class dragon type (it doesn't even have to be a E4 level dragon), an Ice pokemon (that actually sticks with him throughout the saga instead of being Oak'd almost immediately after capture.), etc. etc. the possibilities would be endless.

As for the unpredictability of bringing an old character back...so what? They could bring in a new character that acts in a way or does something completely different to what we're used to. That's unpredictable. They might not bring in another character at all. That's unpredictable. They might have Ash travel alone with Dawn. That's unpredictable. And so on.

Technically, since you pointed out these factors, they're not unpredictable, seeing how "unpredictable" is a factor that's beyond all possibilities and stats.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

The thing is that majority of challengers are rookies who start their journey in Kanto by first going to challenge Pewter or Cerulean gym to try to earn their badges.

Wow, and this is based offffff of what exactly? This is pure and utter speculation, based off of nothing more than the fact that Ash and the games take you through a set course.

No, "the majority of challengers" do not go through Pewter to Cerulean first. Why would a trainer who starts their journey off in Celadon City, travel all the way to Pewter to partake in their first gym?

That's a complete fabrication.

Trainers follow routes depending on their preference, location, and so forth. Additionally, the anime doesn't use levels (The School of Hard Knocks was like one of the, if not the only episode to even reference them). Therefore, the gym leaders aren't in some kind of order from weakest to strongest. Paul battled Roark first, but he clearly had more respect for him than he did Maylene, who he deemed weak. Also, Gary's acquisition of ten gyms, when there are only 8 present in the games, shows that there are more out there, which suggests that there's no "set path" as to the badges one obtains.

In fact, in Pokemon Chronicles, that Evee trainer traveled all the way from Johto to take on Misty with her highly trained Pokemon.

So no, Misty would not fight an excess of rookie trainers. Some, perhaps, but stronger ones. I mean even the trainers who make it to the League or go on to win it have to face gym leaders at one point. Not to mention that trainers like Harrison, Paul, Ash, Gary, etc... prove that they can venture to other places and already be highly advanced before taking on a gym leader.

In conclusion, gym leaders can get just as much of a challenge as any other trainer, and they're guarenteed to battle a great deal. Just look at Ash, he travels around so much, yet his primary opponents are still TR.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Wow, and this is based offffff of what exactly? This is pure and utter speculation, based off of nothing more than the fact that Ash and the games take you through a set course.

Well, technically, Ash seemed to always get directed to the first gym in the games (I mean, really, even IF it's supposed to be advertizing the games or not, that doesn't mean he HAS to do the Gyms in the set order in the games. As a matter of fact, Ash didn't even do the Kanto order, or technically, the Sinnoh order [taking into account the fact that right after platinum was released, they switched around the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gyms].). Actually, the only time that Ash went in Game order under his own free with no outside influences whatsoever was Johto. In Hoenn, Norman pretty much told him to go to Rustboro city for his first gym (and kinda implied through the reasoning that all trainers in Hoenn face his gym fifth.), and in Sinnoh, his Badge case told him to go to Roark (and once again, it was implied to have a set order, because, besides the stupid badge case, Paul, of all people, decided to face Roark first instead of just fighting Maylene [or whoever the heck the gym leader of Veilstone was at the time] first as soon as he returned from Sinnoh.)

No, "the majority of challengers" do not go through Pewter to Cerulean first. Why would a trainer who starts their journey off in Celadon City, travel all the way to Pewter to partake in their first gym?

Why would a trainer who just started in... ohh, Lavaridge town go all the way to Rustboro city just to partake their first gym? I mean, Norman implied that this is what's supposed to happen when denying Ash's challenge against him and telling him to go to Rustboro (I mean, if this was May he was talking to, I'd understand, but, this is Ash, who had made top 8 in Johto, heck, his son knows Ash from the league as well.). Also, why would Paul face Roark first? I mean, seeing how he lives in Veilstone town (which also has a port), it would have been much more convenient for him to face Maylene [or, like I said, whoever the Veilstone gym leader was at the time] instead of having to travel all the way to Roark for your first gym match.

That's a complete fabrication.

Actually, it was implied a few times in the show that there is an order to facing Gym Leaders in Hoenn and Sinnoh, at the very least (Norman's line about how he's the fifth Gym leader to be faced, as well as Paul deciding to face Roark first when it would have been more convenient to face Maylene/previous Veilstone Gym leader first, among other things all say "hi".)

Trainers follow routes depending on their preference, location, and so forth. Additionally, the anime doesn't use levels (The School of Hard Knocks was like one of the, if not the only episode to even reference them).

Well, technically, they were referenced a few times in the anime (Brock's line of "It depends on the pokemon's level" to Max say's "hi"), it's just that "The School of Hard Knocks" was the only episode to give an exact measurement of levels.

Therefore, the gym leaders aren't in some kind of order from weakest to strongest. Paul battled Roark first, but he clearly had more respect for him than he did Maylene, who he deemed weak.

Well, I don't know if he had any actual respect for Roark (much less if he did indeed have more respect to him than to Maylene). I mean, he did kinda imply that he felt that Roark was weak when he said "...pathetic" to Ash in regards to his loss to Roark. Besides, he kinda lied to Cynthia in regards to why he treated Chimchar the way he did (He implied to her that he had tough love for Chimchar, when in reality, he was only pushing him so hard so it could activate it's super blaze ability for his own selfish reasons.), he may have only seemed respectful of Roark because he knows of his experience (Remember, Maylene was only just starting out in her Gym career, so he probably would have had an easier time dissing her without immediate consequence than he would have in regards to dissing Roark.).

Besides, in Hoenn and Sinnoh, at least, there is an actual order to GLs (I mean, why on earth would Norman tell Ash that he's the fifth gym leader to be faced in such a way that made it seem as though it's what's supposed to be done in gym challenges if there was no set order? And heck, why did Paul travel all the way to Oreburgh Gym if he could easily face Maylene or whoever the Veilstone Gym Leader was at the time?)

Also, Gary's acquisition of ten gyms, when there are only 8 present in the games, shows that there are more out there, which suggests that there's no "set path" as to the badges one obtains.

We know that Hoenn and Sinnoh has at least 9 badges, as well, yet that didn't stop Norman from saying that Ash can't face him due to his being the fifth gym leader, or having both Ash AND Paul face the exact same path of Gym Leaders.

In fact, in Pokemon Chronicles, that Evee trainer traveled all the way from Johto to take on Misty with her highly trained Pokemon.

Actually, it's theoretically possible that Sakura would be able to face the Pewter Gym first (I mean, if she crossed through the mountainous region which is the Mt. Silver pass, she could challenge the Pewter City gym.)

Even IF Cerulean City was the first Kanto gym that Sakura faced, the only thing it proves is that Kanto doesn't have a set order, as it still doesn't explain Norman's line about how he's supposed to be the fifth Gym leader to be faced, and that the first gym leader that gym challengers must face is Rustboro city, or why Paul would decide to face Roark first instead of facing Maylene/previous Veilstone Gym Leader first.

So no, Misty would not fight an excess of rookie trainers. Some, perhaps, but stronger ones. I mean even the trainers who make it to the League or go on to win it have to face gym leaders at one point. Not to mention that trainers like Harrison, Paul, Ash, Gary, etc... prove that they can venture to other places and already be highly advanced before taking on a gym leader.

Even if Misty doesn't actually face an excess of rookie trainers, she would still face an excess of rookie pokemon (which, experienced trainer or not, is still no different than facing a rookie trainer. I mean, just because the trainer has vast amounts of experience doesn't mean the pokemon he newly caught in the region have that same experience.), since, guess what? Most trainers tend to start fresh when completing a region. I mean, Ash started fresh, Gary started fresh, Harrison started fresh, Jessie, James, and Meowth started fresh, the ToTD from "Judgement Day" started fresh, heck, even Paul started fresh, and he's the last person you'd expect to start over from scratch.

In conclusion, gym leaders can get just as much of a challenge as any other trainer, and they're guarenteed to battle a great deal. Just look at Ash, he travels around so much, yet his primary opponents are still TR.

Whom, BTW, JJM were officially labeled as being the most pathetic trainers on the show, but that's aside from the point.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Well, technically, Ash seemed to always get directed to the first gym in the games (I mean, really, even IF it's supposed to be advertizing the games or not, that doesn't mean he HAS to do the Gyms in the set order in the games.

That's my point. No one has to do anything in any set order. Otherwise, Gary would've gotten his seventh badge in Cinnibar, or wouldn't have had 10 badges by the time he was at Viridian.

As a matter of fact, Ash didn't even do the Kanto order, or technically, the Sinnoh order [taking into account the fact that right after platinum was released, they switched around the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gyms].).

The only gyms Ash switched around in Kanto were the fourth and fifth. But that only further proves that there's no pre-destined order.

In Sinnoh, he went the way of the DP games, so how did he not go the order here? From Maylene, to Wake, to Fantina. Platinum's changes are irrelevant, although I'm glad you mentioned that, because it once again works in the favor of my argument. Thanks.

Paul, of all people, decided to face Roark first instead of just fighting Maylene [or whoever the heck the gym leader of Veilstone was at the time] first as soon as he returned from Sinnoh.)

Or, he went there because it was convenient. Paul treated Roark with more respect than he did Maylene, by a long shot. That was the only gym leader he's called weak yet.

Well, technically, they were referenced a few times in the anime (Brock's line of "It depends on the pokemon's level" to Max say's "hi"), it's just that "The School of Hard Knocks" was the only episode to give an exact measurement of levels.

First of all, stop with this "says hi", crap, because you don't even use it right. It makes you look like a moron, quite frankly. Second of all, did I not say "one of the only times"? A few, lousy instances (although Brock could easily be referring to the Pokemon's skill or experience in general, not an actual level) don't override their ignorance to it the rest of the show. They may have experience, etc... But levels are hardly noted. And people like Brock and Misty 've shown that there's no difference in terms of skill between them and some of the other gym leaders.

And if you DO believe that the anime works the same way the games do, then that means Misty's Pokemon would still be receiving a great deal of experience with her Pokemon for the fact that she's battling SO many trainers, regardless of quality.

(Remember, Maylene was only just starting out in her Gym career, so he probably would have had an easier time dissing her without immediate consequence than he would have in regards to dissing Roark.).

Which would still imply that she's weaker as a gym leader than Roark is. Considering the fact that she was much less experienced. And you're ignoring Paul's personality; the fact that he's overly critical of Ash. Of course he's going to call his loss pathetic. While he, in turn, barely beat Roark, yet swept Maylene (types aside).

Actually, it's theoretically possible that Sakura would be able to face the Pewter Gym first (I mean, if she crossed through the mountainous region which is the Mt. Silver pass, she could challenge the Pewter City gym.)

What does that matter? My point was that she was experienced. Or did your ranting blind you from that?

Even IF Cerulean City was the first Kanto gym that Sakura faced, the only thing it proves is that Kanto doesn't have a set order

Case closed. What does Hoenn have to do with Cerulean City or Misty? The argument was that Misty's gym is not the lesser one, or start for all rookies. Things are easily interchangable.

And as for this repetitive crap about Paul you keep bringing up... We don't know where Paul was at the start of Sinnoh. What we do know is that he's gone to other Leagues. He may've easily been in that area upon his return to Sinnoh, or Maylene could've still been getting her position. The fact is, she was sweeped, and he referred to her as weak. He had nothing but respect for Roark. Also, Ash swept Wake. Does that imply that he's lesser than Maylene?

Even if Misty doesn't actually face an excess of rookie trainers, she would still face an excess of rookie pokemon (which, experienced trainer or not, is still no different than facing a rookie trainer. I mean, just because the trainer has vast amounts of experience doesn't mean the pokemon he newly caught in the region have that same experience.), since, guess what? Most trainers tend to start fresh when completing a region. I mean, Ash started fresh,

Right... Escept you're ignoring that Ash used his Charizard against FALKNER (the very first gym leader) at the start of Johto. Or that he used Pikachu against Roxanne at the start of Hoenn. Or that he used Pikachu in his match with Roark.

Gary started fresh,

Right, except Gary kept his Blastoise with him in Johto, had an Evee that he was clearly raising prior to his Johto travels, had his all too familiar Arkanine with him, etc...

Harrison started fresh,

Blazikin and Kecleon "say 'hi'".

Jessie, James, and Meowth started fresh,

They got Ekans and Koffing as gifts. Wtf...

heck, even Paul started fresh, and he's the last person you'd expect to start over from scratch.

Yet had his Torterra with him, and has apparently been using his Honchkrow, and Weavile - both of which he caught prior to Sinnoh.

Misty gets battles just fine, and against more than rookie trainers or rookie Pokemon.

The rest I left out...as it seemed to be either rant or repetitive.

Whom, BTW, JJM were officially labeled as being the most pathetic trainers on the show, but that's aside from the point.

I would question the whole "official" bit, but you actually just helped my case.

The TR trio are Ash's primary opponents. If they're so utterly weak, then what is Misty missing out on by battling them every so often as oppose to battling swarms of trainers?

 

[pikachu200]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I'd rather have the traveling companions like Misty to stay with Ash, but the changing of the rivals I like since Ash's only main rivals were Gary before he followed in Profesor Oak's footsteps and now Paul though I have to admit has a lot of powerful pokemon instead of little cute first or second forms

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

The only gyms Ash switched around in Kanto were the fourth and fifth. But that only further proves that there's no pre-destined order.

...At least in Kanto, but that line that Norman gave in regards to gyms that Ash should face implies that Hoenn has a set order (I mean, if there's no set order, why did he say that he's supposed to be challenged later on in the Gym tourney?)

Or, he went there because it was convenient. Paul treated Roark with more respect than he did Maylene, by a long shot. That was the only gym leader he's called weak yet.

First off, as I said before, we don't even know if Maylene was the Gym Leader before Paul returned to Sinnoh, for all we know, Maylene wasn't the gym leader yet when Paul returned (We definitely know that Veilstone has a port. what do you call that body of water behind the Galactic HQ?) I mean, in order for it to be convenient, it needs to be right near your home town or the area you disembark (or, if the gym in question is out of order, just go with the nearest city with a gym). I mean, as you said, how is it convenient to travel to Pewter City just to face Brock first when you can easily face Erika first due to it being your hometown.

First of all, stop with this "says hi", crap, because you don't even use it right. It makes you look like a moron, quite frankly. Second of all, did I not say "one of the only times"? A few, lousy instances (although Brock could easily be referring to the Pokemon's skill or experience in general, not an actual level) don't override their ignorance to it the rest of the show. They may have experience, etc... But levels are hardly noted. And people like Brock and Misty 've shown that there's no difference in terms of skill between them and some of the other gym leaders.

Well, at least, until they got to GLs being bested by rookie pokemon that barely even have Any experience (Not EXP points, REAL experience, since even in the anime, experience matters quite a bit.). As for the "Saying hi" complaint, people used it as a way to prove a point by using an example. Heck, people on these forums, even you, have used it. Does that make you and every one else sound like Morons?

And if you DO believe that the anime works the same way the games do, then that means Misty's Pokemon would still be receiving a great deal of experience with her Pokemon for the fact that she's battling SO many trainers, regardless of quality.

Hey, so should JJM, and yet that doesn't stop them from losing to pokemon that they should overpower easily quite a few times, or heck, Brock losing to that Eevee very easily despite his Marshtomp being, ohh, more experienced than it (AND Eevee not having ANY experience at that point.)

Which would still imply that she's weaker as a gym leader than Roark is. Considering the fact that she was much less experienced. And you're ignoring Paul's personality; the fact that he's overly critical of Ash. Of course he's going to call his loss pathetic. While he, in turn, barely beat Roark, yet swept Maylene (types aside).

Well, he could have done it in such a way that didn't make it seem as though Roark was also pathetic, at least. So what if he was criticizing Ash, the way he did it still implied that he felt Roark was weak.

Besides, at least Maylene had an excuse for being weak (she was new to the gym setting since she replaced the previous Gym Leader a little bit before Ash arrived in Sinnoh, at least, if not before Paul faced her in Veilstone.)

What does that matter? My point was that she was experienced. Or did your ranting blind you from that?

Ok, Sakura MAY be experienced, but that does NOT mean her pokemon have that same experience. I mean, the only pokemon that she had with her that we definitely know was experienced was her Espeon. Her Beautifly? She could have just as easily caught it when she was passing through Kanto, and even IF she did evolve it, it still won't be as experienced as a Gym Leader.

Though, at least won using an experienced pokemon. However, that does NOT mean that most of the pokemon faced against her are experienced. Heck, it's seems more likely that the opposite is true, considering how most of the ToTDs that we've seen very rarely seem to stay with the exact same team that they started with in their first region they traveled in.)

Case closed. What does Hoenn have to do with Cerulean City or Misty? The argument was that Misty's gym is not the lesser one, or start for all rookies. Things are easily interchangable.

Kanto, maybe. But that doesn't mean that ALL regional gyms are interchangable (Especially considering Norman's statement to Ash and Paul not fighting the Veilstone Gym Leader (or the other possible gym leaders in what ever town he disembarked at in the games, if he even disembarked in those areas at all, which I'll cover below.).).

That reminds me, you still didn't explain why Norman would imply that there's a set order to Hoenn if there wasn't one.

And as for this repetitive crap about Paul you keep bringing up... We don't know where Paul was at the start of Sinnoh. What we do know is that he's gone to other Leagues. He may've easily been in that area upon his return to Sinnoh, or Maylene could've still been getting her position. The fact is, she was sweeped, and he referred to her as weak. He had nothing but respect for Roark. Also, Ash swept Wake. Does that imply that he's lesser than Maylene?

What we do know, though, is that Paul definitely didn't disembark in Twinleaf Town, seeing how he's been training for quite a while in Route 202. Plus, his conversation with Rowan implied that they were total strangers.

Other than Anime-exclusive cities, the only other places there are for him to disembark are Snowpoint, Canaclave, Pastoria, Valor Lakefront (though it's hinted that Valor Lakefront is probably a suburb of Pastoria rather than a separate city, seeing how it doesn't have a town motto), and Veilstone (Paul's hometown). Want to know what these towns all have in common? They all have a gym. So really, Even IF he didn't disembark at his hometown, he's still would probably fight the first gym he comes across, and seeing how it's implied a few times that Oreburgh is his first gym battle in Sinnoh... well, you get the idea.

Right... Escept you're ignoring that Ash used his Charizard against FALKNER (the very first gym leader) at the start of Johto. Or that he used Pikachu against Roxanne at the start of Hoenn. Or that he used Pikachu in his match with Roark.

It's implied in the pokemon series that pokemon trainers who start fresh often make exceptions with Pokemon that are their starters. As for Johto, even that had a bit of a fresh start, seeing how he Oak'd Snorlax, released Lapras, and eventually left Squirtle and Charizard with the Squirtle Squad and Charrific valley (Interesting how you noted Charizard, BTW).

Right, except Gary kept his Blastoise with him in Johto, had an Evee that he was clearly raising prior to his Johto travels, had his all too familiar Arkanine with him, etc...

The only Pokemon that Gary definitely brought with him that's an actual veteran was Blastoise (for obvious reasons). Arcanine was probably gotten out of Oak's place (I mean, we know for certain that trainers, given the need, can get their Oak'd/Reggie'd/Norman'd/boxed pokemon, seeing how Ash got Kingler out for the Whirl Cup, had Charizard on his team temporarily (and the second time in Johto, it was implied that he gave a call for Charizard), called Squirtle, and how he handled the Battle Frontier. As for Eevee, the only thing we know about it was that it was caught before Ash returned from the OI, we don't know if he had it soon after Ash had gone to the OI, if he had got it halfway through Ash's Journey, or if he had caught it shortly before Ash returned to Pallet Town.)

Blazikin and Kecleon "say 'hi'".

I know Blaziken (but, again, it's an exception, due to the fact that Pokemon Trainers often exempt the pokemon they started with from the rule.), but Keckleon could have easily been caught during his tenure through Johto (if that Keckleon episode in Johto is anything to go by, Johto definitely has Keckleon as a native species.).

They got Ekans and Koffing as gifts. Wtf...

even still, they mentioned a fresh start. Besides, it's unknown if their Arbok and Weezing were their actual starter pokemon, or just assigned pokemon. (similar to Aggron, Charizard, Raticate, Drowzee, Granbull, and Shuckle were assigned pokemon that are for the most part temporary/expendable.).

In fact, the closest to an actual starter pokemon would probably be Meowth.

Yet had his Torterra with him, and has apparently been using his Honchkrow, and Weavile - both of which he caught prior to Sinnoh.

Considering the fact that Torterra's his starter, it's pretty obvious that it would be an exception. As for Honchkrow and Weavile, we could argue that Honchkrow and Weavile were taken from his Brother (we know that he "Reggies" his Pokemon if he doesn't need them, if you know what I mean.). I mean, all we know is that he didn't catch them in sinnoh. We don't know if he had them since the start of his Sinnoh Journey. (in fact, it's impossible that he actually had used them at the start of his Sinnoh Journey, because he had Chimchar and Elekid at least (We know that he has at least three pokemon, because when he caught the three Starly, he had all three with them, which if he had more than four, they'd be sent to wherever he got his Pokedex from.) We might reasonably assume that Torterra was with him. Also, at the Roark gym battle, Paul had Ursaring, Azumarril, Elekid, and Chimchar. there were four poke-balls when he checked them out (seeing how he gave the kid Azumarril earlier), and knowing that Trainers often exempt their starter pokemon from being oak'd, that means he had Torterra.

Misty gets battles just fine, and against more than rookie trainers or rookie Pokemon.

What makes you so sure? Seeing how Misty is currently miserable with the job (Heck, she skips out at every opportunity, and deliberately held back the return to the Gym during the Mt. Moon Arc in Battle Frontier), for all we know, she might as well BE losing to rookie Pokemon (I WON'T say Rookie Trainers, seeing how you mentioned that there are Experienced Trainers, but that doesn't mean that the pokemon they had aren't rookie pokemon, especially considering that, from what was shown in the series, most trainers have a fresh start.).

I would question the whole "official" bit, but you actually just helped my case.

Ash and Friends have often called JJM weak/pathetic or implied it a few times. Paul even labeled JJM as losers.

The TR trio are Ash's primary opponents. If they're so utterly weak, then what is Misty missing out on by battling them every so often as oppose to battling swarms of trainers?

because at the gym, she'll be experiencing what JJM had experienced in their run, which is nothing more than a few wins, but mostly losses that range to good to downright pathetic.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

It's not a refreshing change though, it's just taking an existing concept and putting unessecary restrictions on it.

Refreshing change is because it would provide something different than the same old formula of gyms and contests,and someone can be interesting and a lot of things can be done with him if he has one type aswell.The fact that water pokemon are the most diverse type just helps the case even more.

As for the unpredictability of bringing an old character back...so what? They could bring in a new character that acts in a way or does something completely different to what we're used to.

Why on earth they would introduce new character who acts in same way being like "Mistys clone" when they could just bring her back.This doesnt make any sense.

No, "the majority of challengers" do not go through Pewter to Cerulean first. Why would a trainer who starts their journey off in Celadon City, travel all the way to Pewter to partake in their first gym?

Maybe you dont remember but in one of episodes from Kanto,when Ash was starting his journey wanting to challenge Viridian gym,Misty mentioned how its smarter to challenge some other "easier" gyms like Pewter one before going for this one.Dont believe me,go rewatch Kanto episodes if your looking for proof.
And i didnt mentioned "most of challengers" but "most of rookies" who are from Kanto,thats not the same.Those who are getting their first pokemon in Pallet starting heir journey and in their route Pewter or Cerulean gym is much closer than some other one.Do you even understand how gyms and pokemon league works?

So no, Misty would not fight an excess of rookie trainers. Some, perhaps, but stronger ones.

Your right she wouldnt fight mostly only against rookie trainers,but those at medium level aswell,"big difference".As for battling against "stronger rookies",thats not true she is battling against beginners aswell.
More than 50% of challengers at gyms are rookies.How much people every year participate in Indigo League?Well just do the math,how many trainers start their journey in Kanto,take into account how many of them are starters from Kanto and how many are from other regions,it shouldnt be too hard.

In conclusion, gym leaders can get just as much of a challenge as any other trainer, and they're guarenteed to battle a great deal. Just look at Ash, he travels around so much, yet his primary opponents are still TR.

Lol,yes because gym leaders are such a "strong trainers".It seems that you dont understand how gym works.As i said job of a gym leader is to test upcoming trainers to see if they are ready to partake in pokemon league.That pretty much explains the reason why they sometimes lose to rookies aswell.

There is a reason why gym leaders arent highly leveled trainers.With your theory and "amount of experience which they receive" over the years,people who are gym leaders for their whole life should be at least on E4 members level,but however they arent.Hmm i wonder why?
Maybe because they arent receiving enough experience.

As i already pointed out,why did Wallace left the gym?Because he wanted to become stronger.Why did Misty initially left the gym in start of her journey back than in Kanto?Because she wanted to achieve her dream of becoming one of the strongest trainers in the world,and that obviously isnt possible to do at gym.

Nevertheless aside from Blaine mentioning how he is tyred from battling against weaker trainers and wants bigger challenge,aside from fact how Brocks father Flint said how its a shame that someone like Brock who has enough potential to be great trainer,even challenging pokemon league,is just a mere gym leader which proves what im saying,if your looking for more examples i will gladly provide them.

Seriously your overestimating gym leaders.Lets compare for example Morty(gym leader from Johto) who is using ghost types with Agatha E4 member.He obviously isnt even close to her level.
The same goes for comparisons between Pryce and Lorelai etc.

My point is that Misty cant achieve her goal of becoming worlds strongest water type trainer as a gym leader,people should know this by now.The only way is by travelling again,that way you can receive much more experience and learn much more about pokemon types instead of staying at one place wasting your time against challengers who arent providing enough of challenge.

Let me ask you this.Isnt Ashs goal becoming pokemon master,being the strongest pokemon trainer in the world or one of the best.Then howcome someone who wants to achieve this(Ash is just an example) isnt settling down to becoming frontier brain or gym leader,when by your theory he would receive as much experience as its the case when your travelling.

Im sorry but your theory is full of flaws,and i dont have time to write several paragraphs looking as an essay to prove to some people,why gym leaders arent high level trainers,and how many experience they really get which isnt nearly as much like amount of experience when your travelling.