Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region?

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

To pokemon fan 132: I appreciate your comment, and I'm glad you see that the situation at Cerulean is complex and not easily pigeonholed. I still think Misty's reactions show resentment of her sisters pushing responsibility off on her (like for cleaning the pool for THEIR photo shoot - or for whatever reason the original episode gave – and not wanting to cover for her so she can see her best friends for the first time in however long), NOT of her dislike of being Gym Leader and the normal duties involved.

While its true that Misty doesnt hates her job(hate is such a strong word),the thing is that the main reason why she isnt leaving the gym is because she doesnt thrust her incompetent sisters enough(with a reason) to leave it in their hands and when i mentioned showing displeasure i wasnt talking about cleaning the pool but some other things which has been showed/implied.

As i said situation with cerulean gym is a little bit complicated,and while Misty would probably rather want to travell with her friends,at the same time she doesnt want that reputation of gym gets ruined even more thanks to her sisters,so she is currently taking care of it.

something she really can't do cheering Ash on from sidelines. She isn't doing something she completely hates.

And yet Dawn,May,Brock perfectly fine are taking further steps toward their goals.
In Mistys case she can make further progress by competing in events for water types similar to that Whirl Cup,battling against stronger trainers than ones which she encounters at the gym sharping her skills and strenght along with learning more about that type in wild.

This isnt anymore Johto and 2001/2002.Writers have greatly improved since than.

This brings us back to the main reason why characters leave in the first place. Their reasons for "leaving the show" are career-related.

This doesnt apply to Misty who left out of obligation not wanting to leave her friends in first place,wanting to continue travelling.

4. I already mentioned how being a gym leader furthers her goal of being a "Water Pokémon Master", I mean, look at Wallace.

Except that gym can only take you to some point.After that further improvement at gym isnt possible.

As for Wallace,he LEFT the gym in order to become stronger making further steps toward his ambitions later on becoming leaguie champion,contest master and one of the strongests water type trainers in the world.

Gym leaders specialize in types,

Actually someone can be gym leader without specializing in one type aswell.

In both of these examples:
You completely and utterly implied that they were weak in the grand perspective of things. First by mocking the idea that they were such great trainers, and then by claiming that they weren't highly leveled.

You are just pulling words out of context.I was just replying to your idiotic claiming how gym leaders are equal to highly skilled trainers,E4 members,league champions etc,etc,etc...when they obviously arent.

I NEVER said how gym leaders are weak,but they arent highly skilled glorified trainers either.

show you why your logic makes absolutely no sense.

Oh i see,says someone who doesnt know the difference between gyms in anime and games and how they work on totally different level,says someone who claime how GL are equal to E4 members,how gym leaders never lose to rookies and someone who is avoiding all my questions which i asked to point out your flaws in arguments fighting back with counter questions.

Maybe my logic isnt excellent,but it for sure makes more sense than things which your saying.

On one hand, you argue that gym leaders are simply lower tier trainers who simply fulfill their goals as tests, to which you claim "pretty much explains the reason why they sometimes lose to rookies aswell."

For Gods sake learn how gyms work.Gym leaders arent some super strong unbeatable trainers,and their job is to test upcoming trainers to see if they are ready for pokemon league.And yes they lose to rookies aswell,no matter how strange that seems to you like it has been showed already in anime,the same goes for mediocre and experienced trainers aswell.Otherwise beginners would never manage to earn their badges qualifying themselfs for pokemon league.

Now some peoples theories when they lose to rookies is that when battling against them they lower their potential or use weaker pokemon for them.Fact is that job of a GL isnt to crush their opponents,but to test them.

This isnt like games where only experienced trainers(players) who are and has pokemon on higher level beat GL.In anime things work differently.

On the other hand, you argue that they don't get too many strong challenges, and that's why Misty wouldn't get much experience from them. You even cited an example from Blaine, who claimed that he took down his official gym because too many weak sauce trainers challenged him.

Fact is that while they battle against experienced trainers aswell,most of time they are battling against rookies and medium level trainers.
Therefore in Mistys case battling for most of time against rookies and mediocre trainers isnt going to make her and her pokemon much stronger,increasing her strenght and experience.What has been done is done and the only way for further progress is by travelling again.Gym is now just holding her potential back.Nevertheless to make further steps toward her goal(becoming worlds strongest water type trainer)is also needed to compete in water coimpetitions like it has been showed during Whirl Cup and in some other examples,which obviously isnt possible with this position.

Hence this is the reason why GL arent highly leveled trainers(this doesnt mean they are weak,there are many levels between low and high level),and why people who are GL for their whole life arent even close to E4 members and very strong experienced trainers.

As for Blaine,again something which i didnt said.I was just pointing out how he said "how he is tyred from battling against weak trainers and wants bigger challenge".Dont believe me?Rewatch Kanto episodes,that should prove to you some things.

you've completely contradicted yourself with your logic.

I didnt contradicted myself at all.Its not my fault that you misunderstood some obvious things which i pointed out.

In fact, you even claimed that Sakura "isn't exactly in category of highly skilled trainer", but Misty lost to her didn't she? So how is she not being challenged?

And your point is?Sakura isnt something special and she isnt even comparable to Harrison.Wait Misty lost to her?So what,while Sakura wasnt some challenge,Misty isnt some highly leveled experienced trainer either.Yes she is good,but not that good.

EDIT:To Shiny Aeon:Regards to Mistys sisters your right about Daisy,she showed interest in battling(like it has been showed in "Luvdisc is a Many Splendored Things") and out of all her sisters she is the only one who is spending some time with her in the gym helping her,but she is pretty much irresponsible aswell.

Now when it comes to Lily and Violet im sorry but they are helpless cases.

p.s.It would be nice if this discussion could be brought to end,because further arguing is pretty much pointless.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

You are just pulling words out of context.I was just replying to your idiotic claiming how gym leaders are equal to highly skilled trainers,E4 members,league champions etc,etc,etc...when they obviously arent.

Wow. You really are an idiot. Where did I state that gym leaders are more equal to Elite four members? Where? You've claimed that at least four times now. So point out to me where.

You obviously couldn't grasp how your words intersected. There was no pulling them out of context, fool. Quit using terms and phrases you don't even understand the meaning of. If it looked ridiculous to you, that's because they're YOUR words, and like I said, make NO sense. Don't try to pin it on anything you've responded to. You tried to argue on two fronts, and ended up crashing your thoughts or ideas in the process:

Battling mostly against rookies and medium level trainers isnt giving to her and her pokemon enough experience,and the only way for further progress is by travelling again.

There's one of the arguments I referred to.

Here's the other:

Lol,yes because gym leaders are such a "strong trainers".It seems that you dont understand how gym works.As i said job of a gym leader is to test upcoming trainers to see if they are ready to partake in pokemon league.That pretty much explains the reason why they sometimes lose to rookies aswell.

There is a reason why gym leaders arent highly leveled trainers.

In one instance, you suggested that she could never receive the necessary challenges to become great. On the other hand, you suggest that gym leaders in general are low-leveled, meant simply to test the trainers, and "sometimes" lose to rookies".

My POINT, incase you still can't understand, was that if they're sitting there losing to rookies, then they're obviously receiving a challenge. No matter how strong or weak a competitor is in retrospect, that competitor is strong relative to YOU if they're beating you. Again you called Sakura weak, but she was obviously a challenge for Misty.

And by the by, moron, I was the one who suggested that gym leaders adjust their levels depending on the trainer's level. But that's not to say that they "throw matches" or some crap... If the trainer's inexperienced, they could use lesser Pokemon of their own. What's wrong with that? Isn't part of being a great trainer improving each Pokemon?
------------------

Now here's the response to the rest of your composition of trash. Ask me these questions I'm supposedly "avoiding". I'm waiting. As if I'd ever have to avoid the nonsensical constructions of yhour idiocy.

It was in one of episodes when they were in Viridian town,if i recall correctly it was in "Pokemon Emergency",but im not 100% sure.

They don't bring up gyms at all in "Pokemon Emergency!" Gyms aren't brought up until "Showdown In Pewter City".

She cant get much stronger with current position and the logical way to improve more is with option of travelling.

How? How many battles would she actually get from traveling, with Ash in particular? It's not like she's interested in facing gyms, and it's not like she'll always be the one to step up. In Cerulean, she'll get tons of matches, bound to be both beneficial and not.

And where did you included low level and mediocre trainers in your calculation exactly?

Genius, I specifically stated that 50 percent of those trainers who DO start in Kanto would be facing her at a later stage in their journey, when they're more experienced. If you can do math, you'd realize that the other 50% would be the rookies.

Now as a WHOLE, you simply look at how many trainers made it to the Indigo Plateau. These are the better trainers - the one who could actually acquire 8 badges. The number was an entire 256, based on the number of rounds there were at the Pokemon League.

And please, I'm still waiting for you to calculate all this out, as it "shouldn't be too hard". So let's hear it. And I'd like to know where you get your numbers from at that.

As for trainers who are starting their journey by receiving their first pokemon in Pallet they will first go to Pewter and Cerulean gym in order to gain their badges.

Ash was only one of four trainers from Pallet. The other 3 had the official starters. Yet there were over 200 trainers at the Indigo Plateau. That means of these 400, only these 4 from Pallet positively went on the Pewter-Cerulean route. Gary was one of them, and even he didn't get the same 8 badges Ash did.

It seems that you dont understand how anime=/=games.Speaking about games,E4 members are on higher level than gym leaders.

It seems you have the comprehension of a 3rd grader. Experience obviously translates over to the anime. Otherwise, give a thorough explanation as to how Pokemon evolve, or why base stage Pokemon (IE Pikachu) can keep up with evolved Pokemon (IE Raichu)? You're right (for once), anime =/= games, (congratulations for reciting something that's common knowledge). But until proven otherwise, experience is a constant in both.

And wow, very intelligent of you to go and reference levels in games as some kind of evidence for the anime, RIGHT AFTER "informing" me that anime =/= games. FAIL.

She also left to become worlds greatest water pokemon trainer which was mentioned in "Waterflowers of Cerulean City" episode.

No, she didn't. Her original intentions were to be "a Pokemon master" in general. The whole "World's best Water trainer" didn't spring up until later.

Nevertheless in "Around The Whirlpool" episode when Ash and Misty were subscribing for Whirl Cup prof.Elm stated how by winning this tournament you become Alpha Omega of water pokemon,and how water pokemon masters used to be called by that name.Of course winning one tournament doesnt make you master at that type,but it brings you one step closer toward this goal.

These kinds of tournaments don't happen every day. She's better off practicing back at her WATER-based gym at home in the mean time. Battling a bunch of trainers looking to best her water Pokemon.

Also judging by Misty and her dialogue while travelling she showed great deal of interest in E4 members and participating in water based events saying how this is going to help her toward her goal.

Wow, so she should travel with Ash for an entire journey across an entire region just to enter some rare water type contest along the way?

Do you even remember how this originally started? You claimed that having a type-specific trainer around like Misty would allow the co-character to be more involved in battles. Yet now, you're claiming that Misty could travel around to enter these occassional water events - how would that be "more involved"?

One more thing,you do realize that this what your saying is kind of contradictory because someone cant be master of some type and gym leader at the same time,because it would be unfair toward challengers who would never have a chance to win a badge.

How is that a contradiction? And my words were that it HELPS her become a water-type Master. Not that she could reign at that position AS a water type master. Comprehension fail.

Anyway great way to avoid all my questions?

Like what? Ask away.

Has it ever occured to you why people who are gym leaders for their whole life,who has "tons of experience" under their belt battling for years arent even close to E4 members or very skilled trainers.

Which gym leader has been one their whole lives exactly?

On the other hand Blaine/Pryce are old people,while someone like Lance,Aaron,Bruno etc. are younger ones and however they managed to become more stronger in a lot less time than above examples will ever be.Hmm i wonder why.

I do too, considering the anime never gave a backstory as to how long each had their position, or how they even got it.

You do realize that someone to become a gym leader doesnt have to restrict himself to just one type.So with this said,you still didnt explained why someone who is aiming for becoming what Ash wants to become is travelling instead of being a gym leader when by your logic "he can get as much experience".

Because Ash has goals such as winning the Leagues, and challenging the E4. Misty wants to be the best at a specific type, which can be done without traveling. She chooses to restrict herself, and it's beneficial to her.

What matters is quality,not quantity.

And I argued that she'd get both.

What the?Gym leaders dont lose to rookies?They only lose to exceptional trainers?What are you talking about????
Than how do you explain the fact that Ash when starting as rookie managed to beat them(not counting wins under unpredictable circumstances),

A lot of his early wins WERE because of those circumstances. Brock, Erika, Sabrina all were. Surge he received coaching with. While his real wins were example of his improvements (Koga, Blaine)

and this what your saying doesnt make any sense because in that case noone from starters would never manage to win badges later on qualifying himself to enter pokemon league.

That's why people TRAIN their Pokemon to get strong enough to compete against gym leaders. That's why AJ chose to get 100 victories before he set off on his journey. That's why Samurai wanted to challenge the trainers from Pallet before he tried his luck in Pewter. The games work the same way: training = growth = stronger Pokemon = better trainer = able to challenge gym leaders.

If you took your level 5 Charmander to face Brock in the games, could you beat him? NO, it takes training, fool. What doesn't make sense about that logic?

And again, gym leaders have the option of using Pokemon that are roughly even to a trainer's level.

Sure they do,but compared to number of challengers from that reegion and amount of rookies/startes and mediocre trainers they are in minority.

How do you know that? One region doesn't stop as another continues. Trainers interchange regions ALL THE TIME.

Except that i never said that and i would be grateful if you could refrain from putting your words in my mouth.Thanks.

That's why I ASKED it. As in checking what your implications were. So how is that putting words in your mouth? FAIL
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By the way, keep in mind that this is all relative to Misty's journey with Ash, not simply if Misty went on a journey by herself. These are 2 different things. Your original argument was that someone like Misty would have a more battle-oriented goal with the group. Really? How? By battling TR a bit? Water contests don't happen that frequently. So how would the co-character get more involved? There's no point in keeping her through an entire season to battle in some water contest that they throw in once every 90 episodes. As PDL pointed out, she could get a lot more out of her gym than she could cheering Ash on from the sidelines.

Again, learn to keep things in perspective. You seem to be unable to trace points back to their original source, and therefore you're losing the purpose of it all. Half of what you're arguing doesn't apply to her because we're talking about her journey with Ash, not on her own.

You're right, she probably could learn a thing or two traveling around for the purpose of her goal. But in that case, her place is NOT with Ash, as his routes, etc... are completely different.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Wow. You really are an idiot. Where did I state that gym leaders are more equal to Elite four members? Where? You've claimed that at least four times now. So point out to me where.

Actually, you did kinda imply from your responses in regards to how Gym Leaders aren't weak that they were of Elite 4 level, so it's an understandable mistake.

You obviously couldn't grasp how your words intersected. There was no pulling them out of context, fool. Quit using terms and phrases you don't even understand the meaning of. If it looked ridiculous to you, that's because they're YOUR words, and like I said, make NO sense. Don't try to pin it on anything you've responded to. You tried to argue on two fronts, and ended up crashing your thoughts or ideas in the process:

Hey, cut him some slack! he's from Croatia, so of Course he may sound a bit garbled (No offense, Pokemon Fan 132, I was just trying to get him off your back.)! Besides, I can actually understand his points, and not only that, but I actually agree with them.

In one instance, you suggested that she could never receive the necessary challenges to become great. On the other hand, you suggest that gym leaders in general are low-leveled, meant simply to test the trainers, and "sometimes" lose to rookies".

It's a combination of both. You see, if you just spend your time just testing younger trainers, you don't grow more powerful. Actually, your potential actually goes lower. As they won't be able to win against small fry, they probably won't be able to grow stronger (otherwise, Team Rocket won't be losing AS much.).

My POINT, incase you still can't understand, was that if they're sitting there losing to rookies, then they're obviously receiving a challenge. No matter how strong or weak a competitor is in retrospect, that competitor is strong relative to YOU if they're beating you. Again you called Sakura weak, but she was obviously a challenge for Misty.

And again, most people who lose to rookies a lot are deemed "weak", hence the fanbase's viewpoint on JJM.

Now here's the response to the rest of your composition of trash. Ask me these questions I'm supposedly "avoiding". I'm waiting. As if I'd ever have to avoid the nonsensical constructions of yhour idiocy.

Look, can you at least try and argue without resorting to saying someone's idiotic or anything like that? I mean, doing that would only prove your lack of ability to argue.

How? How many battles would she actually get from traveling, with Ash in particular? It's not like she's interested in facing gyms, and it's not like she'll always be the one to step up. In Cerulean, she'll get tons of matches, bound to be both beneficial and not.

Ash only gets, what? 8 to 16 battles per region, at least? I mean, he didn't really get THAT many battles, the only reason why it even SEEMED like he got that many battles is because of JJM. I guess he should be a Gym Leader/Frontier Brain then, since he'll have infinitely more battles doing that.

Genius, I specifically stated that 50 percent of those trainers who DO start in Kanto would be facing her at a later stage in their journey, when they're more experienced. If you can do math, you'd realize that the other 50% would be the rookies.

You know, not everything is exactly "50/50". I mean, we don't know the exact measurements of the stats of challengers (For all we know, they could just as easily be "75/25" or "25/75" or any percentage range.)

Now as a WHOLE, you simply look at how many trainers made it to the Indigo Plateau. These are the better trainers - the one who could actually acquire 8 badges. Tbjs number was an entire 256, based on the number of rounds there were.

And please, I'm still waiting for you to calculate all this out, as it "shouldn't be too hard". So let's hear it. And I'd like to know where you get your numbers from at that.

I'd like to know where you got your figures, since, correct me if I'm mistaken, but they definitely didn't mention any percentages or even a full blown amount as to how many gym challengers are in a region.

Misty has trainers every day, coming into her gym, attempting to best her water Pokemon with a wide range of Pokemon, types, and tactics, while she's restricting herself to her type.

JJM restricts themselves to Poison and Grass, for the most part, and they fight all kinds of trainers, and the last time I checked, they are labeled as pathetic and weak.

You mentioned the quote of Blaine shutting down his gym because he battled weak trainers.

I then responded by using that as an example to show Blaine's strength, and then stated how he and other GLs faced stronger challenges through trainers like Ash.

Pick up your comprehension, otherwise, why respond?

They would have retired from the Gym-leader rig if they were stronger.

Besides, JJM ran a gym two times, and the last time I checked, especially in their recent attempt, they didn't even win a single battle until Croagunk came into the picture.

No shit. Are you even serious? Throughout Ash's journey in Kanto, he was one of only FOUR trainers who started their journey from Pallet. Only 3 official starters are given out per Indigo semester/year (Pikachu was a rare fourth). But how many trainers were at the Pokemon League? At least 256. Meaning there are tons of trainers who take routes other than the one that Ash took. Gary's from Pallet, and he didn't even require the same 8 badges Ash did. There are tons more trainers who start in different cities, take different routes, and are bound to face Misty late in their journeys, when their Pokemon are highly trained.

Either that, or the other tons of trainers stopped the Gym tourneys because they saw the pointlessness of having to fight trainers whom they win easily against. If I must bring up an example, in the DBZ movie "Bojack Unbound", Piccolo was to fight Krillin in the Galaxy fighters Tournament, and Piccolo forfeited the match, not because of Krillin's skills, but because he saw Krillin as being a waste of his time.

But he was talented, and he obviously trained his Pokemon hard. He grew to be a strong trainer, and that's how he did what he did to Giovanni's Pokemon. Yet Gary lost in the Round of 32 at Indigo, meaning there are tons more trainers like him that the gym leaders face, including Misty.

It's also implied in the Viridian Gym match that Giovanni was deliberately not trying so he could lure the trainer into overconfidence and then unleash "the Big guns" (IE, Mewtwo) to wipe the floor with them (Hence the smirk when Gary beat his Kingler).

When did I say they were on the same level? Goodness...

Again, the way you worded your statements as to how the GL's aren't weak implied that they were Elite 4 level.

It seems you have the comprehension of a 3rd grader. Experience obviously translates over to the anime. Otherwise, give a thorough explanation as to how Pokemon evolve, or why base stage Pokemon (IE Pikachu) can keep up with evolved Pokemon (IE Raichu)? You're right (for once), anime =/= games, (congratulations for reciting something that's common knowledge). But until proven otherwise, experience is a constant in both.

You know, Caterpie, despite having virtually no experience in regards to it's fight against Koffing and Ekans, and being barely even alive at the time thanks to Pidgeotto and Ash's foolish decision, was able to take them down with virtually no effort. BTW, something to point out in regards to Caterpie, it's moon-gazing implied that it was going to evolve anyways, even IF it didn't win against Koffing and Ekans.

Another thing, it's shown in the episodes that sometimes pokemon evolve, you know, WITHOUT having experience in battles (For example, the two Nidorans evolved just by mating with each other. Charmeleon evolved despite not even laying a finger on Aerodactyl just because it mocked him.)

And wow, very intelligent of you to go and reference levels in games as some kind of evidence for the anime, RIGHT AFTER "informing" me that anime =/= games. FAIL.

You know, I looked at the quote that you were replying to, and I don't recall him actually mentioning Game Levels in that statement. If anything, he was actually referring to Level as in, you know level of ability, or level of position (like the Grain level of a food pyramid, or the top level of a building hierarchy.).

No, she didn't. Her original intentions were to be "a Pokemon master" in general. The whole "World's best Water trainer" didn't spring up until later.

...which was in direct reference to her sisters in regards to the gym (And besides which, the three pokemon she had at that point had the same type, that is, water (and in Starmie's case, Water/Psychic).). So, if her goal to be a Water Pokemon Master only came up in Johto, then please explain why they had her have all of her party at the time be water types? I mean, they would have had her with other types besides water if they truly wanted to emphasize a typical Pokemon Master rather than just a single-type master.

These kinds of tournaments don't happen every day. She's better off practicing back at her WATER-based gym at home in the mean time. Battling a bunch of trainers looking to best her water Pokemon.

Neither do Pokemon League matches, and if becoming a Gym Leader, or heck, a BF brain would truly get someone closer to the position of a Pokemon Master (Regardless if it's just one type or not.), why didn't Ash just accept the position of a Frontier Brain instead of, you know, just continuing on his journey? I mean, it's not like Gym Leaders are restricted to one type (Blaine, Giovanni, and Whitney all say "hi".)

And who exactly said that Lance or Lorelai were masters? They still have a great deal more to accomplish. And it's not said that they accomplished where they got by traveling.

I'm guessing dialogue...

Wow, so she should travel with Ash for an entire journey across an entire region just to enter some rare water type contest along the way?

Hey, it's not like those League matches are common either (Otherwise, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't say that it happens "every year", and say that it happens 24/7).

Do you even remember how this originally started? You claimed that having a type-specific trainer around like Misty would allow the co-character to be more involved in battles. Yet now, you're claiming that Misty could travel around to enter these occassional water events - how would that be "more involved"?

How's Ash challenging leagues "more involved", anyways? Heck, how's his challenging a "Battle Frontier" "More involved" anyways? seeing how they last for a year (and in the case of the Battle Frontier, it's a once in a lifetime event.)

How is that a contradiction? And my words were that it HELPS her become a water-type Master. Not that she could reign at that position AS a water type master.

If sitting around being beaten by rookie pokemon is considered helping her to be a Water Pokemon Master, then JJM must be masters already, seeing how they LOSE TO ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE/POKEMON, EVEN THE WEAKEST, MOST NON FUNCTIONING ONES!!!

Like what? Ask away.

Which gym leader has been one their whole lives exactly?

Let's see, there's Blaine, Pryce, and Wattson. It's also hinted that Flannery's predecessor, her grandpa, had spent most of his life as a Gym Leader before handing it down to her.

You. You can't comprehend anything, let alone create a plausible argument. I've snuffed just about every point you make. You just aren't able to get it. You're the epitome of an idiot.

You know, the same can be said for you. Heck, most people, regardless of whom they're arguing, NEVER try to call someone an idiot. Doing that would actually prove that you can't even argue (Join a debate club, call someone on the other side an idiot or some other derogatory term, and you'll see what I mean.)

I do too, considering the anime never gave a backstory to any of them.

Blaine was said to have closed down the Gym due to having found it pointless after so many years, but then secretly placed his gym in a volcano, and Pryce once had a Piloswine that he lost in a Blizzard, embittering him ever since. Sounds like backstory. Erika had a backstory in regards to her being attacked by Grimer. Misty's sisters, tambourine, and being eaten by a gyarados ARE her backstory. Brock's backstory was his getting onix, and his dad and mom abandoning the family. Sabrina's backstory involved turning her mom into a doll, and exiling her father, and developing split-personality disorder. Giovanni technically has a backstory, since he arranged for Mewtwo's creation. Roark had a backstory involving a falling out with his dad.

Because Ash has goals such as winning the Leagues, and challenging the E4. Misty wants to be the best at a specific type, which can be done without traveling.

His goal was to be the worlds greatest Pokemon Master (Something that, contrary to popular belief, can easily be achieved as a Master, from your standpoint. I mean, Blaine, Giovanni, Whitney, Sabrina, Koga and some other GLs had at least one pokemon that wasn't even of their gym's type (Blaine had a fighting type, at least two water types, and a psychic type, Whitney has one poison type, Sabrina, aside from Haunter, was implied to have a fighting type at one point, and Koga was implied to have a Bug/Flying type and was shown to have several Voltorb (all electric types), and that's just in the Anime.

In the games, Giovanni had a Persian in Yellow, (normal type), Sabrina had a Venomoth (a Bug/Poison type), Blue's team only had one Pokemon that even fit the Viridian gym type (Rhydon), Pryce had a Seel (a pure water type, even IF it evolves into a part-ice type later on), Roxanne in the fourth rematch had a Steelix (which wasn't a rock type at all, it's a Steel/Ground type), in the first through third rematches, Winona has a Dratini/Dragonair (Dragon), which isn't a flying type (well, not yet, anyways), in DP, Candice has a Medicham (Psychic/Fighting type), and also in DP, only two of Volkner's pokemon is of the electric type (Octillery's a water type, and Ambipom's a normal type), that's not even counting pokemon that are half-types in their respective gyms.

Due to these things, Gym Leaders CAN be trying to master multiple types and still be gym leader. Heck, Forrest's team has a Poison/Flying type, a Steel/Ground type, a Water/ground type, a Water/grass type (Assuming that it actually is a gym roster pokemon), at least 8 water types belonging to Lola (half of which are mixed breeds), and a bug/steel type. And if Brock leaves most of his pokemon at home, they'll also have a Poison/fighting type and a normal type in the gym's roster, and Pewter Gym's supposed to be a Rock-type gym.). Heck, he also was offered a position of becoming a Frontier brain (which would have been a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity).

And I argued that she'd get both.

Team Rocket had to deal with that kind of thing as well, and yet both the main characters AND the fanbase have said or implied that they are pathetic losers.

Ash beat Brock and obtained his first badge because of aid from the arena (showers).

Speaking of which, Pikachu (uncharged) had a better chance at taking down Geodude than Onix had he fought it the first time around (I know since, when it was supercharged, it took down Geodude in one hit, whileas Onix proved to be difficult to beat, even WITH the Supercharged status.).

Also, he said unforeseeable factors do NOT count.

Besides, did Ash actually train or get enough experience to even rival Brock? The last time I checked, all he did was wire Pikachu up to an abandoned water mill's power generator (something that Flint came up with, BTW.).

He beat Misty because they were pretty much on the same level at the time.

Technically, he didn't beat her, seeing how TR interrupted the match. Of course, even IF they didn't interfere, it's still unknown who would actually be the winner (Remember, things don't always turn out the way they seem. Otherwise, JJM would have completely destroyed Caterpie with Koffing, Ekans, AND Meowth.).

He beat Surge because his Pikachu gained experience and became stronger, and he got assistance and strategy from Brock.

Well, it's mainly due to Brock. Heck, seeing how JJM have yet to actually beat Ash (or anyone, for that matter) in a battle for the past 10 years (not to mention the fact that they lost to a barely alive, inexperienced caterpie, and recently, a barely even experienced Piplup, despite outclassing those two in every way possible), we don't know if experience was even a factor in it.

He beat Sabrina because he made her laugh. He didn't finish the match with Erika.

Re-read the post. He said unforseeable factors did NOT count. Besides, how can we determine his chances against Erika if he didn't even finish the match, Heck, Ash hadn't even begun to fight Erika with Pikachu before TR bombed the place?

He was a stronger trainer (on his 6th badge) by the time he beat Koga. He was a stronger trainer with stronger Pokemon (Charizard) by the time he beat Blaine. And he had a strong team by his 8th badge. A lot of his early wins WERE because of those circumstances.

He wasn't really a stronger trainer (So his Charizard evolved, BIG DEAL! charizard didn't even evolve due to experience, it was due to the fact that Aerodactyl taunted him.). Heck, the only reason he won is because Charizard wanted to settle it's rivalry with Magmar. Had it not been for that, he definitely wouldn't have been so lucky.). As for Koga, if he indeed got stronger, Charmander would have awakened the Exeggutor/Team Rocket from their hypnosis without needing Melvin's help.

That's why people TRAIN their Pokemon to get strong enough to compete against gym leaders. That's why AJ chose to get 100 victories before he set off on his journey. That's why Samurai wanted to challenge the trainers from Pallet before he tried his luck in Pewter. That's why Ash struggled so much in comparison to Gary, early on. The games work the same way: training = growth = stronger Pokemon = better trainer = able to challenge gym leaders.

Yet it didn't even take any training for Ash to whup Brock or defeat JJM in the third episode. Heck, he didn't actually train for Lt. Surge.

If you took your level 5 Charmander to face Brock in the games, could you beat him? NO, it takes training, fool. What doesn't make sense about that logic?

And again, gym leaders have the option of using Pokemon that are roughly even to a trainer's level.

Since when? The Only Gym Leaders who even seem to HAVE an option of using Pokemon of the opponents level (when Ash, Otoshi, or Gary fought them) were Juan, Sabrina, Koga, Erika, Misty, Giovanni, Bugsy, Morty, Pryce, Wattson, Tate/Lisa, and Gardenia.

and if we separate them:

Kanto: Misty, Sabrina, Erika, Koga, Giovanni.

Johto: Bugsy, Morty, Pryce

Hoenn: Wattson, Juan, Tate/Lisa

Sinnoh: Gardenia (implied)

only 1/8th of Sinnoh has a Gym Leader with more pokemon than what's shown in her roster.

Johto and Hoenn having about 3/8ths each

and Kanto had 5/8ths.

If there were going to be more, they would have shown us. I didn't count Brock since he only had more pokemon than his roster AFTER he joined Ash (plus, his father returned home, and it's implied that the Golem, the Rhydon, and the three geodude were Flint's pokemon.), Heck, the episode where Lt. Surge fought Ash implied that Raichu was the one taking out all the other pokemon challengers. I mean, he could have EASILY chosen more pokemon for his team in the rematch, but he didn't. Blaine also didn't even mention any other pokemon he might have had, let alone shown, which implies that he might not even have any pokemon other than Ninetales, Rhydon, and Magmar.

By the way, keep in mind that this is all relative to Misty's journey with Ash, not simply if Misty went on a journey by herself. These are 2 different things. Your original argument was that someone like Misty would have a more battle-oriented goal with the group. Really? How? By battling TR a bit? Water contests don't happen that frequently. So how would the co-character get more involved? There's no point in keeping her through an entire season to battle in some water contest that they throw in once every 90 episodes. As PDL pointed out, she could get a lot more out of her gym than she could cheering Ash on from the sidelines.

There's no point in trying to keep Ash in the show if he's only going to battle in a League for little more than about 120 episodes, anyways. Another thing, she doesn't "Cheer" Ash from the sidelines, in order for her to do that, she would have to be an exact clone of Gary's cheerleaders.

Again, learn to keep things in perspective. You seem to be unable to trace points back to their original source, and therefore you're losing the purpose of it all. Half of what you're arguing doesn't apply to her because we're talking about her journey with Ash, not on her own.

Who says that she wouldn't have anything to do in regards to Ash's Journey.

You're right, she probably could learn a thing or two traveling around for the purpose of her goal. But in that case, her place is NOT with Ash, as his routes, etc... are completely different.

The only thing that's truly different between their goals is Ash having more types (even then, it's barely even much, seeing how the only types he's actually mastered are the Grass, Water, Fire, and Flying types.). Both have a duty of entering a league. Heck, there's even certain requirements to entering said leagues.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Oh great, from one ranting to the one and only, Sir Ranting.

Actually, you did kinda imply from your responses in regards to how Gym Leaders aren't weak that they were of Elite 4 level, so it's an understandable mistake.

No, I kinda don't actually. By this logic, any trainer who is not on the E4 level is weak. That's exactly what you're implying here. Just because I'm saying the gym leaders are strong, does not mean I'm saying they're on the E4 level. You act as if there isn't a large shade of gray in between these 2 tiers. So no, I'm not implying shit.

Look, can you at least try and argue without resorting to saying someone's idiotic or anything like that? I mean, doing that would only prove your lack of ability to argue.

Weedle, I understand that you have a thing for this guy. I'm okay with that. But if he wants to treat my arguments like they're "idiotic", I'll gladly do the same.

Also, you're one to talk about lack of ability. Contrary to your belief, ranting doesn't make you sound smarter. And you say that similar things can be said of me? I'm not the one who rants in circles or argues without premise.

Another thing, it's shown in the episodes that sometimes pokemon evolve, you know, WITHOUT having experience in battles... Charmeleon evolved despite not even laying a finger on Aerodactyl just because it mocked him.)

And how did that same Charmeleon come about? Because Charmander worked its' ass off against Exeggcutor, crushed a Golem, flamed Erica's Weepinbell, bested Koga's Venemoth, etc... It gained a great deal of experience. The writers realized this, so they sped up Charmelion's evolution.

A lot of times they've saved evolutions for high stake situations (particularly in Kanto), but none of these Pokemon would've been able to evolve if they had 0 experience. A charmander's not going to be walking and suddenly evolve if its never grown stronger in any way.

...which was in direct reference to her sisters in regards to the gym (And besides which, the three pokemon she had at that point had the same type, that is, water (and in Starmie's case, Water/Psychic).). So, if her goal to be a Water Pokemon Master only came up in Johto

Wow, I said it came up in Johto?? No, I said it came up later than that episode, genius.

I mean, it's not like Gym Leaders are restricted to one type (Blaine, Giovanni, and Whitney all say "hi".)

Relevancy says, "hi". What does it matter what those gym leaders do? We're talking about Misty, who you just admitted has a water-type fixation.

Hey, it's not like those League matches are common either (Otherwise, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't say that it happens "every year", and say that it happens 24/7).

But there are gyms, etc... that lead UP to League matches. Whereas water tournaments happen and that's that. Completely different. Analogy fail.

How's Ash challenging leagues "more involved", anyways? Heck, how's his challenging a "Battle Frontier" "More involved" anyways? seeing how they last for a year (and in the case of the Battle Frontier, it's a once in a lifetime event.)

Do you even understand the premise of this argument? Ash is a trainer, idiot. Of course his goals are battle-oriented. 'Cause as I said earlier, Pokemon matches/experience/training etc... make you stronger. Are you joking with this?? Go review Pokemon, then get back to me.

Insert rant about backstories

Wow. Relevancy once again says, "hi". I'm talking about back-stories that actually explain how long any of them have been gym members. Quit responding to things if you don't know the premise of the arguments.

Besides, did Ash actually train or get enough experience to even rival Brock? The last time I checked, all he did was wire Pikachu up to an abandoned water mill's power generator (something that Flint came up with, BTW.).

LOL, that's why I said he received HELP in that victory. So what is your point?

And if he truly didn't deserve the victory against Misty, that further aids my point, as that's yet another victory that he was aided in as a rookie.

So, if this were "debate", you'd then look like a clown, right?

Re-read the post. He said unforseeable factors did NOT count. Besides, how can we determine his chances against Erika if he didn't even finish the match, Heck, Ash hadn't even begun to fight Erika with Pikachu before TR bombed the place?

Quit crying. Simply declaring something "doesn't count" doesn't make the circumstances any less true. This is by far the dumbest excuse for anything I've encountered on this board. "Wahh! No! You can't use your sword to beat me 'coz they don't count", honestly, you sound like children with that.

charizard didn't even evolve due to experience, it was due to the fact that Aerodactyl taunted him.). Heck, the only reason he won is because Charizard wanted to settle it's rivalry with Magmar.

if he indeed got stronger, Charmander would have awakened the Exeggutor/Team Rocket from their hypnosis without needing Melvin's help.

A desire to do something doesn't mean anything if you don't have the strength/experience/skill behind it.

And are you serious? It was an entire march of Exeggcutor. Come off it.

---------------------

I'm honestly done here. You come up with the most abysmal arguments, based on the smallest possible things, and attempt to come up with a legit point. It fails miserably.

And I still did not get a single plausible response to my question of that logic.

If gym leaders are so weak, what does it mean for a trainer to beat them? Beating the weak isn't any kind of test. So how does that prepare them for the League? Or is the League comprised entirely of weak ass trainers?

Also, if gym leaders are losing to "rookies", then don't they have their hands full with trainers already? If someone is strong enough to beat you, how are they not a test for you, regardless of how well trained they are?

And you yourself argued that Lt. Surge and others aren't holding back with their Pokemon, so what does it mean if they get beat? That there are challengers who can give them the experience or "training" they need.

Misty would be a lot better off at her gym, accepting challenges from all types of Pokemon and trainers looking to best her, than playing cheerleader for Ash, and entering the rare water competition they find.

And if Gym Leaders are supposedly weak, then what does it mean for Ash to go around and beat them? How is traveling making him stronger by beating weak gym leaders?
--------

I've said my part. I'd love for someone to come in here and actually judge these posts. But other than that, there's no point arguing with the blind, the deaf, and the dumb. I'm done.

 

[PDL]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

We still don't even know if they're strong competitors or weak competitors...though the fact that their heart isn't in it implies that they're not that strong, of course. And it's a good bet that they're not very responsible about the position (I mean, maybe it was a REALLY dirty pool, but still...)

I just like to keep established fact separate from widely-held assumptions.

Still, you can't really deny that putting someone in a position that they are not cut out for is never really a good idea.

Misty's sisters were simply not the best choice for leading a league-sanctioned gym. It takes a special person with considerable talent to do that. Misty is a better choice for that role. Gym leading is a serious job that requires skill. Misty has that skill and drive to do it.

Also, all these posts are getting too long. Could you guys apply Occam's Razor and cut out the redundant?

 

[Yoshi-san]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Um, What's this thread about again?

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Um, What's this thread about again?

Sadly, there is no point. Maybe its best if people just ignore the ones who rant about Misty's "water pokemon goal," we'd all be better off.

Anyhoo I like the changing cast. It's much more fresh and exciting to see new characters come in than sit through the same dull cast all the time.

I think one of the major reasons I didn't like Johto is because it didn't introduce anyone new ...sans Casey, but she hardly counts.

 

[Yoshi-san]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Sadly, there is no point. Maybe its best if people just ignore the ones who rant about Misty's "water pokemon goal," we'd all be better off.

Anyhoo I like the changing cast. It's much more fresh and exciting to see new characters come in than sit through the same dull cast all the time.

I think one of the major reasons I didn't like Johto is because it didn't introduce anyone new ...sans Casey, but she hardly counts.

I thought it was be nice if Sakura joined the group in that episode...It would had gave Jotho a nice twist of things.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I thought it was be nice if Sakura joined the group in that episode...It would had gave Jotho a nice twist of things.

Sakura would have been alright, but the writers don't want two girls on the cast at the same time.

Besides Sakura was going for Gyms, and Ash was halfway done with Johto at the time, there was no way Ash was going to travel back to Falkner, Bugsy, etc. just for Sakura to beat them.

 

[MetaRobo]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I'd rather they rotate the rest of the cast. Okay, Ash and Pikachu are pretty much staying for reasons much discussed already (though I personally wish that if Ash's other Pokemon have to go, Pikachu should too; I have an aversion to mascot characters in general), but why do they have to change the obligatory female character while keeping Brock to be little more than an ancient relic? Because they can't think of anything better? Okay, he's redeemed by his Pokemon a bit, but Brock himself is getting old.

I fear that I have unleashed great madness on this board by bringing this up.

 

[Yoshi-san]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Sakura would have been alright, but the writers don't want two girls on the cast at the same time.

Besides Sakura was going for Gyms, and Ash was halfway done with Johto at the time, there was no way Ash was going to travel back to Falkner, Bugsy, etc. just for Sakura to beat them.

Personally I would like for her to appear in DP as a rival but Ash already has 2 (maybe 3 if Nando wasn't Brother Chucked)rivals in DP. Anyway I think she could be a good rival for him.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Casey did start off as Ash's rival but eventually wound up going nowhere. In her last Johto ep she only had 4 Johto badges whereas Ash had all 8. It's pretty sad.

 

[Yoshi-san]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Casey did start off as Ash's rival but eventually wound up going nowhere. In her last Johto ep she only had 4 Johto badges whereas Ash had all 8. It's pretty sad.

Yeah....

Anyway what do you think about Ash's DP Rivals compared to his other rivals?

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I'd rather they rotate the rest of the cast. Okay, Ash and Pikachu are pretty much staying for reasons much discussed already (though I personally wish that if Ash's other Pokemon have to go, Pikachu should too; I have an aversion to mascot characters in general), but why do they have to change the obligatory female character while keeping Brock to be little more than an ancient relic? Because they can't think of anything better? Okay, he's redeemed by his Pokemon a bit, but Brock himself is getting old.

I fear that I have unleashed great madness on this board by bringing this up.

They need a character like Brock, as one who tutors the audience and explains what's going on (important to reel in new fans). And he explains a lot of things by himself, such as how their Pokemon stay healthy or how they eat when far from town (the group's cleric).

He's doing a lot more in DP than in AG or Johto. Breeding/Tag Battle Arc/Training with Ash/Team Galactic plot with Croagunk, etc...

I think they're fine with him. And it's been made pretty clear that he won't be switching for a while.

 

[PDL]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I'd rather they rotate the rest of the cast. Okay, Ash and Pikachu are pretty much staying for reasons much discussed already (though I personally wish that if Ash's other Pokemon have to go, Pikachu should too; I have an aversion to mascot characters in general), but why do they have to change the obligatory female character while keeping Brock to be little more than an ancient relic? Because they can't think of anything better? Okay, he's redeemed by his Pokemon a bit, but Brock himself is getting old.

I'm guessing the writers have figured that any female character would be acceptable by the fans simply because they look "pretty". You can't really get the same effect with male characters. Few people really give a damn as to how attractive Ash or Brock are (There are fangirls, but for Pokémon, they are a minority and are off little interest to the producers and writers of the anime and the franchise in general.)

I fear that I have unleashed great madness on this board by bringing this up.

Well, there's no need to kick yourself since the topic was bound to come up anyway. We tend to cycle through the same arguements and topics all the time. Chances are this one will appear in the future.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I just wish Brock and Dawn had more memorable interactions. The two of them definitely have the least amount of chemistry together than Brock and the previous two girls.

Brock and Misty felt like friends, and Brock acted as an older brother to May. But his friendship with Dawn is almost artificial.

It's almost as if Brock realizes that Dawn will go off on her own someday so he feels no reason to get attached to her.

 

[MetaRobo]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I'm guessing the writers have figured that any female character would be acceptable by the fans simply because they look "pretty". You can't really get the same effect with male characters. Few people really give a damn as to how attractive Ash or Brock are (There are fangirls, but for Pokémon, they are a minority and are off little interest to the producers and writers of the anime and the franchise in general.)

I wouldn't exactly call 40% a minority (http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=29874). Okay, Internet polls are biased, but it's better than going by anecdotal evidence of me noticing a lot of fangirls in shonen anime/JRPG fandoms in general.

 

[PDL]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

I wouldn't exactly call 40% a minority (http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=29874). Okay, Internet polls are biased, but it's better than going by anecdotal evidence of me noticing a lot of fangirls in shonen anime/JRPG fandoms in general.

That's just the fans that regularly patrol the internet's Pokémon message boards run by fans. What I'm talking about is the demographic that the anime really aims for: children between the ages of 5-13 (and maybe older). While Pokémon is made to appeal to children of both sexes and all ages, Pokémon's core demographic are still boys. The anime still centers around monsters that blow shit up and crush things with their minds. They don't care all too much about the frankly boring human characters. As long as they get to see their awesome battles, that's all that matters for them.

They replace characters to keep the anime relevent to the newest games. As the anime is essentially a 30-minute long commercial. One with decent writing mind you, but they do set time aside for promoting stuff. They include Rangers when, an only when, new Ranger game is released. Hence why it's unlikely they'll introduce a new regular charatcer that is a Ranger, and they did purposely extend the route from the Hearthome tag battle to Veilstone City just so they could have Lucario's anime debut shown at the same time as SSB Brawl's release (Since Lucario is a new character in that game).

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Wow. You really are an idiot. Where did I state that gym leaders are more equal to Elite four members? Where? You've claimed that at least four times now. So point out to me where.

Judging by some of your posts it seemed that way.

In one instance, you suggested that she could never receive the necessary challenges to become great. On the other hand, you suggest that gym leaders in general are low-leveled, meant simply to test the trainers, and "sometimes" lose to rookies".

And my point still stands,battling mostly against rookies and medium level trainers isnt going to make you much stronger.Is that so hard to understand?

As for gym leaders for 10th time i never said how they are weak.Im pointing out something obvious and thats how they arent highly skilled trainers either.There are many areas between low level and high level trainers,learn the difference.

It seems that you still missunderstood some things which i said.
Ok ill try to explain it in the most understandable way i can think of.Gym leaders sometimes lose to rookies but that dosnt mean they are weak.The thing is when battling against them they are not battling with full potential or are using weaker pokemon to give them a chance/test them to see if they are ready to participate in pokemon league.However by doing so not battling with full potential they arent receiving much experience or becoming stronger in this way.
The only real challenge which they get is when they are battling against experienced trainers,but considering how majority of challengers are from lower category after they reach certain point there is no much room left for further improvement.
Job of a gym leaders is to test challengers,not crushing them.

To sum it up that doesnt mean that GL are "weak pathetic trainers" but if someone wants to become one of the strongest trainers in the world for whats Misty aiming for after you reach certain point further improvement is only possible by leaving the gym.
Someone cant become highly skilled trainer,one day being on level of league champions,
E4 members by being in gym.The only possible way to do that is by travelling.E4 members are top trainers,but it has also been showed in many cases that they travell alot learning about new things and showing their techniques against very strong trainers while travelling,like it has been showed with Lorelai,Drake,Lance,Lucian,Cynthia etc.While travelling Misty showed a great deal of interest in them and competitions,and for Lorelai she even said how she is like her idol.


Hence why Wallace left the gym in order to improve himself later on becoming league champion,contest master and one of the strongest water type trainers in the world.All im saying is that this goal of being in skill and strenght at least on E4 member level if not even higher isnt possible to achieve at the gym.Gym can serve as somekind of stepping stone,but its not enough.
The only way for further improvement is by travelling again,learning new things,increasing her strenght and skills through competitions and battling against stronger trainers than ones which she encounters now.

My POINT, incase you still can't understand, was that if they're sitting there losing to rookies, then they're obviously receiving a challenge.

Battling against rookies and mediocre trainers isnt a challenge.If we go by your logic how GL never lose to rookies,than you are contradicting yourself.

If we go by facts and how gym leaders lose to rookies aswell,considering how they probably in that case lower their potential or use pokemon on lower level(if you can think of a better explanation for losing against this type of trainers provide one),than this isnt challenge at all.Not battling with full potential isnt going to make you more stronger and experienced.

Again you called Sakura weak, but she was obviously a challenge for Misty.

No i did not called Sakura weak.So she battled against Misty two times.First time Misty won,second time Sakura won,which means they are somewhere on the same level.
And Sakura was one decent trainer(not highly skilled one)out of bunch of usual challengers,which arent a challenge for gym leaders.

And by the by, moron, I was the one who suggested that gym leaders adjust their levels depending on the trainer's level.

Not battling with full potential isnt going to make you more strong and experienced.My point still stands.

They don't bring up gyms at all in "Pokemon Emergency!" Gyms aren't brought up until "Showdown In Pewter City".

First did you rewatch this episode,and if you did in that case my apologies.However im still standing by what i said about gyms in one of episodes when they were in Viridian town during Kanto,which implies how some gyms are tougher than other ones.

How? How many battles would she actually get from traveling, with Ash in particular? It's not like she's interested in facing gyms, and it's not like she'll always be the one to step up.

By same logic we could say how many battles is Ash exactly getting while travelling?How many battles is Dawn getting,etc?

And to answer you questions,she would in that case get more battles which counts as challenges,unlike its the case wasting your time at the gym testing same all trainers every day.

If you didnt noticed not everything has to be from games,events like WhirlCup and many other ones arent from games but that didnt stopped them from being in the show.

So writers could come up with chain of water based competitions in case they decide to return her.
New generation of games could have competitions for single types(in this case for water),and who would be better person for advertizing it than Misty itself?
Nevertheless take into account that we dont know whats the case with water based competitions in every region and how much they are often.

As i said this is 2009,not 2002 and writers have dramatically improved since than.If they decide to bring her back,you can be sure there would be some backstory behind that(like purpose to advance her goal) along with giving her something to do.

In Cerulean, she'll get tons of matches, bound to be both beneficial and not.

Maybe you dont understand but its quality what matters,not quantity.Yes she will battle against experienced trainers,but not nearly enough like its the case with lower category of trainers.Considering how more than 50% are rookies,including percentage of mediocre and medium level trainers there isnt much of experienced ones.To sum it up this isnt going to give you enough experience and make you stronger.

Like i mentioned several time,the only way for further improvement is by traveling in Mistys case.

Now as a WHOLE, you simply look at how many trainers made it to the Indigo Plateau. These are the better trainers - the one who could actually acquire 8 badges. The number was an entire 256, based on the number of rounds there were at the Pokemon League.

Take into account how many out of this trainers who qualify themselfs for pokemon league(in this case Indigo one) aquire badges without going to Cerulean gym(you know in Kanto as it has been showed there is more than 8 gyms).
Than take into account how many trainers there was who tried to aquire 8 badges,how many of them were rookies and mediocre trainers,how many of them managed to earn some badges but not all,how many are starting their journey by going through route Pewter,Cerulean and you might finally start to comprehend what im saying all the time.

It seems you have the comprehension of a 3rd grader. Experience obviously translates over to the anime.

I wasnt talking about experience,i was explaining to you whats the difference between gyms in anime and gyms in games and how they operate on different level.

By the way insulting wont help you to get across your points.It seems that your calling stupid anyone,who doesnt agree with you.Wow.

No, she didn't. Her original intentions were to be "a Pokemon master" in general. The whole "World's best Water trainer" didn't spring up until later.

Man some people really need to rewatch Kanto saga.And your wrong it was mentioned during Kanto several times how her dream is to become worlds strongest water type trainer,which you obviously cant achieve at gym.

Do you even remember how this originally started? You claimed that having a type-specific trainer around like Misty would allow the co-character to be more involved in battles. Yet now, you're claiming that Misty could travel around to enter these occassional water events - how would that be "more involved"?

I perfectly remember what i said and my point still stands.Considering how Mistys goal is connected more with battle she would be involved in more battles,and that wouldnt be just occassional water events.For further exaplanation,look above.

Which gym leader has been one their whole lives exactly?

Blaine,Pryce,Wattson etc.If you still dont understand there is a reason why gym leaders arent even close to highly skilled trainers,champions,E4 members etc.Fact is that you can be a gym leader for your whole life,but your still arent going to be even close to mentioned levels.It was even mentioned by Blaine whats the case with challenger at gyms(being mostly weaker trainers).
When you think about it its quite simple,it has something to do with experience.

There is a reason why some of E4 members are called master at certain types,and why gym leaders arent.

I do too, considering the anime never gave a backstory as to how long each had their position, or how they even got it.

Before trying to argue over this rewatch Kanto(since we are talking specifically about that region).You might want to reconsider what you said about them having no backstories.

Because Ash has goals such as winning the Leagues, and challenging the E4. Misty wants to be the best at a specific type, which can be done without traveling. She chooses to restrict herself, and it's beneficial to her.

Claims how Misty can achieve her goal at gym are just inventions from some fans.Anyone who watched original seasons should know what steps are involved in order to become what Misty wants.In case people dont remember they should rewatch it again.
Instead of writing several paragraphs im just going to adress some points to make it clear to everyone:
-Fact:You dont become water pokemon master by being gym leader.
-in order to come closer toward this goal certain steps like competing in water based events like that Whirl Cup(which in case of winning gives you title of Alpha Omega water types by which used to be called water masters) and other competitions needs to be entered(preferably winning).
-Fact:Some E4 members like Lorelai and Lance are masters at certain types,while gym leaders arent and with a reason.
-For someone like Lorelai,Wallace etc could be said how they are strongest water type trainers in the world,but certainly not for gym leader.
-If you want to come even close to that level,the best way is while travelling,learning more about certain type in wild,battling against trainers which provide better challenge(if possible against ones which uses water types to prove your strenght and how you handle water type pokemon) than ones at the gym(like i said before its quality what matters not quantity),participating in events for water pokemon etc.
-Misty while travelling several times claimed how competing in water events is going to help her toward her goal.
-Fact:Misty never wanted to become gym leader in the first place,and she never considered how gym is the way to "achieve her goal".

In the end it all comes down to this:Gym isnt enough.

As for Ash,as it has been showed to become gym leader you dont need to restrict yourself to one type,so by your logic by being gym leader he would receive "plenty of challenges"(with questionable quality),becoming closer toward his goal,but its obvious thats not the way.Becoming frontier brain also isnt the way.

A lot of his early wins WERE because of those circumstances. Brock, Erika, Sabrina all were. Surge he received coaching with. While his real wins were example of his improvements (Koga, Blaine)

In Erikas case,match was interrupted so we dont know how would it end,in Sabrinas case is invalid due to unusual circumstances with her not providing fair battles against challengers turning them into dolls.Speaking about her, compare her with some stronger trainers,which we saw later on(excluding league champions,E4 members etc) and that should point you out how she isnt that strong.
Against Koga,Ash was still not very strong of a trainer.

As i said your overrating gym leaders.

But in that case, her place is NOT with Ash, as his routes, etc... are completely different.

By that logic the same goes for May,Dawn,Brock and every travelling companion "because their place isnt with Ash".Just like contests are conviniently on same route where is Ash going,the same case could be with with water events being in same direction where Ash goes.

p.s.As it has been showed we are just repeating ourselves at this point,with you trying to argue about some things in which i pointed out flaws,so i really dont see further purpose of discussing about this subject which leads us nowhere.

 

[Deadman]

Re: Do you like how the anime introduces new companions/rivals for Ash in each region

Annoying how easy people get to far off-topic...

Well I voted for "keep them" cuz I think two gens with the same charas are a good timespan to gave them a good amount of screen time and development. After that there still can be decided if it was enough or not.