Do You Like Smaller or More Grandiose Plots?

[Gligar13]

I'd like a grand storyline, but not too grand: overzealous plots have ruined games, like Sonic 2006.

Sonic 06 was ruined by mega glitches.

[video=youtube;3MWEHwvcnyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MWEHwvcnyM[/video]

It's the only game you can glitch without having to hunt.

As for the plots, they should depart from the usual formula, and not try to wrap the whole game around a terrible plot. I didn't like FFX for that reason, neither did I like BW for that same reason. BW not only had the same "Evil Team Will Destroy World" plot as RSE/DPP, but tried to tie the game in with the plot more...which failed due to the fail plot.

If they had a decent plot (PMD, something else), then I would like it. But it's not worth tying the game around a bad plot, if I want lots of cutscenes and linearness, it better have a good plot so it isn't just an a button masher.

 

[Citizen Snips]

I'd like a grand storyline, but not too grand: overzealous plots have ruined games, like Sonic 2006.

That's not the only thing that ruined Sonic 2006.

I would really like to have a different Pokemon game with a more mature gameplay targeted not at underages, but at players who actually care for storyline. This is actually not an uncommon strategy among game developers. Splitting the main series to two or more games with different target segments is not a bad idea.

I actually feel the exact opposite of this. I think the series would lose some of its charm if it tried to be mature. Part of the fun of Pokemon, in my opinion, is that it doesn't take itself too seriously, and has always remained a lighthearted series. A mature story would seem extremely out out place in the universe the games take place in. It would strike as if they made a Mario game where Bowser gets depression an contemplates suicide. I may be taking your comment to the extreme, but this is my perceptive.

On the original question. I prefer the simpler stories of Pokemon, because I feel that the games always fail in the execution. I found it interesting the Gen III tried to shake it up with an 'epic' story, but it all fell flat. All these stories seem out of place and are never explored enough to make me ever care. Gen V does improve on this slightly, but that slight improvement does show a little glimmer that they may get it right one day.

My largest gripe with these games are the writing. Although the writing isn't Resident Evil levels of bad, it's still not very good in terms of plot or dialogue. I feel that the games aren't strongly written enough to hold up a dark and mature story, and that it's doomed to end like Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.

 

[Travalgar]

I actually feel the exact opposite of this. I think the series would lose some of its charm if it tried to be mature. Part of the fun of Pokemon, in my opinion, is that it doesn't take itself too seriously, and has always remained a lighthearted series. A mature story would seem extremely out out place in the universe the games take place in. It would strike as if they made a Mario game where Bowser gets depression an contemplates suicide. I may be taking your comment to the extreme, but this is my perceptive...

...My largest gripe with these games are the writing. Although the writing isn't Resident Evil levels of bad, it's still not very good in terms of plot or dialogue. I feel that the games aren't strongly written enough to hold up a dark and mature story, and that it's doomed to end like Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.

I never said to turn the main series to a mature-themed game. What I talked about was having a kind of spinoff to the main series, but with a more mature theme, but of course still with the Pokemon basic ingredients. It could be a whole new game. The atmosphere of the main series is already that "peaceful and charming" enough that it grew its roots deep in the perception of the market. That's why I said there's no hope for a storyline change in those. Make it a bit more complicated and the games' majority target players won't understand it.

And thanks for the Advance Wars info. I will never play that game.

 

[matt0044]

I love grandiose plots and I loved Black & White for that. Although the whole "kid saving the world" plot would be better if it wasn't entirely up to the kid and had his friends and other allies more involved, showing that it's not always about you. Black and White did do this to a certain extent but not enough, though understandably so. I do kinda like it where the PC goes against the evil team after a chance first encounter, showing that if you hadn't shown up, the evil team would've won in the end. That's something to think about.

Plus, we could assume that kids in the Pokemon World are better educated and more independent than kids in our world. Hey, it's a different world with powerful creatures. Not to mention that there are Pokemon Trainer Schools meant to prepare aspiring Trainers.

By the way, I thought that the ten-year-old thing was Anime only. Have the ever stated your character's age in the game?

 

[Arc Blader]

I like good plots. Whether they're grandiose or simple makes little difference to me.
Example 1: BW has a good (for the series) plot. It's good because it a) features characters that actually have something resembling depth, b) touches on an interesting philosophical subject (ideals vs. reality), and c) actually has structure that unfolds in a logical manner. This plot also happens to be grandiose, but that's just the way things are.
Example 2: RBY has virtually no plot. This isn't really a bad thing (inasmuch as it doesn't detract from the game itself), but that means that, from a story standpoint, it's not nearly as good as some of its successors. It also happens to be simple, but that's just part of the package.
A plot can be good and simple; if the next installment just revolved around a kid learning about and battling in the Pokémon world, but kept working with the things that made BW's plot good (the quality of the characters, themes, and structure), that would be good.

 

[GatoRage]

I can't exactly remember who posted it, but in another thread a user came up with an idea that I liked.

Basically, the region that the PC lives in has been under control by an evil organisation for a long time, but there's a resistance consisting of skilled trainers fighting against the oppression. The PC joins the resistance and the goal of the game is to free the region from the evil organisation.

That, to me, sound incredibly fun and interesting. The plot would then be big, but it wouldn't be the typical "little kid saves the world single-handedly" because there would be other skilled, more experienced trainer working with the PC.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Do You Like Smaller or More Grandoise Plots?

I like the larger, more involved plots? Why? Because they're ultimately more interesting. Compared to Team Plasma's goals, TR's goals are incredibly ill-defined (well, I always thought they were but that is neither here nor there), and their scheme to take over Kanto is merely pathetic. I don't know how they came so close to regional domination and how no one noticed or cared except a 10-year-old, but it has always been that way and it always will.

So, long story short: Longer, more complex plots. They make the game more interesting.

I think with Team Rocket, they were well known, except everyone was afraid to challenge them except a trainer with a one-track mind, and TR just happened to be in between him and his goals.

Though, they could have actually made their take-over of Silph Co. more interesting and fleshed out Mewtwo's plot. We hear of this super-powerful Pokémon, and Giovanni goes after the Master Ball, yet no connection is made between the two? Sure, its still not "take over the world" plot type thing, but it would have fleshed out two plots and not made Giovanni's sudden "GOD AM I" complex in HgSs so weird

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: Do You Like Smaller or More Grandoise Plots?

Seriously, guys, the lackluster story is suppose to separate the franchise from other RPGs, since it's a Nintendo game after all, and who the heck plays the games for the plot? This is like giving New Super Mario Bros. Wii or any Kirby game a bad score for a weak storyline. Do I still need to repeat myself?

 

[H-con]

Re: Do You Like Smaller or More Grandoise Plots?

Seriously, guys, the lackluster story is suppose to separate the franchise from other RPGs, since it's a Nintendo game after all, and who the heck plays the games for the plot? This is like giving New Super Mario Bros. Wii or any Kirby game a bad score for a weak storyline. Do I still need to repeat myself?

Why should we be content with a pathetic, repeating story when it actually has influence on the game's progression? There's probably a ton better plot-lines they could choose, but instead go for boring repetition. I like RPGs with plot, and the point is that a better plot would make the games better.

 

[thedarkbunnylord]

Current Pokemon games are targeted at kids (besides young adults, of course). No hope for that. Give it a plot other than saving the world and the kids wouldn't understand.

Oh please. Kids aren't that stupid. RBY didn't have the saving the Universe stuff and I'm quite sure kids pretty much understood the whole story. Of course in plotwise RBY were horribly told, but nowadays they could handle a that kind of story better.

 

[Blue1225]

The thing about the Huge Save the World type plots is that it always makes me ask, "Why am I the only one doing something about this?! What kind of people let a 10/11 year old kid risk his life like this?". The games now seem to be focusing too much on Legendary pokemon, where in Gen. 1 Legendaries were basically just that. Legends. Extremely powerful pokemon and most people didn't even mention them throughout the game.

 

[matt0044]

I can't exactly remember who posted it, but in another thread a user came up with an idea that I liked.

Basically, the region that the PC lives in has been under control by an evil organisation for a long time, but there's a resistance consisting of skilled trainers fighting against the oppression. The PC joins the resistance and the goal of the game is to free the region from the evil organisation.

That, to me, sound incredibly fun and interesting. The plot would then be big, but it wouldn't be the typical "little kid saves the world single-handedly" because there would be other skilled, more experienced trainer working with the PC.

I think that was me. I also said that the Gym Leaders would help the hero train his Pokemon and give him badges to help him get into the Pokemon League where the stage for the final battle will be set (though the PC is given these badges when he/she beats the Gym Leader, surpassing them).

I think the plots in the Pokemon games would be better if there were cutscenes in the game for the story's important parts where it didn't involve you. I'm not sure how that'd work but I'm sure it could be handled well. Plus, your rival, friends and allies could accompany you to take out the evil team more often and the police could recognize you as a helpful agent.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: Do You Like Smaller or More Grandoise Plots?

Why should we be content with a pathetic, repeating story when it actually has influence on the game's progression? There's probably a ton better plot-lines they could choose, but instead go for boring repetition. I like RPGs with plot, and the point is that a better plot would make the games better.

Stories aren't important to video games, it would mean focusing less on improving the core gameplay. Plus you've ignored my example of the repeated storyline for the Mario games.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

@Ghetsis-Dennis: You're right in that games that focus too much on plot tend to be stale, as well as the Mario thing, but Mario games are platformers: They don't need a focus on plot as much as RPGs like Pokemon need to. An interesting plot that does not infringe on the gameplay and sheer wonder of the game would, well, not infringe on the gameplay and sheer wonder. But a good plot that does not infringe on the gameplay is possible through good writing: Something many of you believe can be improved upon (I'm not sure what to think, personally). So, if the writing of the games were better, that could call for a more interesting plot, and possibly even a smaller scale (note, large, complex plot, smaller in utter scale within the pseudo-reality of the Pokemon Universe).

 

[H-con]

Re: Do You Like Smaller or More Grandoise Plots?

Stories aren't important to video games, it would mean focusing less on improving the core gameplay. Plus you've ignored my example of the repeated storyline for the Mario games.

What? A great story makes a great game, especially an RPG. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Witcher, Fable, Star Wars KOTOR (to name my own favorites...), all games that would be way less fun if they didn't have a great story. The story is what makes you want to actually play the game and progress, at least in these kind of game. Saying the story doesn't matter reeks of ignorance if you ask me.

Mario is the same as pokémon, possibly to the extreme (I did like Bowser's Inside Story though), and they suffer from the same, but I was thinking of keeping myself to pokémon on this subject, and rather have a discussion about Mario plots elsewhere.

Besides, pointing at one Nintendo game and using that almost as an excuse to keep having a poor plot isn't really going to improve anything in the pokémon games.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: Do You Like Smaller or More Grandoise Plots?

What? A great story makes a great game, especially an RPG. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Witcher, Fable, Star Wars KOTOR (to name my own favorites...), all games that would be way less fun if they didn't have a great story. The story is what makes you want to actually play the game and progress, at least in these kind of game. Saying the story doesn't matter reeks of ignorance if you ask me.

Mario is the same as pokémon, possibly to the extreme (I did like Bowser's Inside Story though), and they suffer from the same, but I was thinking of keeping myself to pokémon on this subject, and rather have a discussion about Mario plots elsewhere.

Besides, pointing at one Nintendo game and using that almost as an excuse to keep having a poor plot isn't really going to improve anything in the pokémon games.

What about Metroid Other M? That game was criticized despite having a better storyline than Super Metroid, which had the best control scheme of all time. The point is, you can still make a great game without having a complex story, and Pokemon is no exception.

 

[Mijzelffan]

I think a good plot is essential to a lot of games, and pokémon is one of them. However, pokémon usually has had two quests if you will. Beating the gyms and finally the league, and beating bad guys. I always liked the switch in that: "I have now beaten the Xth gym, and it turns out team Y has been up to no good in the meantime, so let's beat them." Then when you finally have beaten the bad guys you can take the ultimate challenge: the league.

I'd rather not have the plot interfere with the gymquest (looking at you BW), nor already be seen as the best trainer in the world before beating the league (BW, Platinum). Because of this, I'd also rather save a region than save the entire world.

 

[H-con]

The point is, you can still make a great game without having a complex story, and Pokemon is no exception.

I see, and I can understand that, though I still think pokémon would be even better if they also added some good plot to the games. A large, good plot doesn't necessarily influence gameplay in a very drastic way, considering how fine-tuned pokémon gameplay is as of today.

 

[matt0044]

I'd rather not have the plot interfere with the gymquest (looking at you BW), nor already be seen as the best trainer in the world before beating the league (BW, Platinum). Because of this, I'd also rather save a region than save the entire world.

Actually, I love it when that happens since it adds to challenge and the story but only when it's done right. BW came close but not exactly in a few areas. Hopefully, this will improve in Gen. VI.

Personally, GameFreak should do my idea for a plot where the evil team has control over the region already and PC joins a resistance comprised of skilled Trainers who want to take down the organization and are allied with the Gym Leaders too. They should also have the PC have a cool backstory.

 

[Mijzelffan]

Personally, GameFreak should do my idea for a plot where the evil team has control over the region already and PC joins a resistance comprised of skilled Trainers who want to take down the organization and are allied with the Gym Leaders too. They should also have the PC have a cool backstory.

Such a thing would be way more fit for a console game if you ask me. Adding gym fights to such a plot just doesn't feel right right. "Hey, I know we're being oppressed by an evil team right now, but you should just pretend like we aren't, and go become a pokémon master by earning gym badges!" It's like taking a citytrip 'round Europe during WWI.