Do you like TPCI's decision to split the Original Series into Pokémon the Series: The Beginning and Pokémon the Series: Gold and Silver?

[Ricbolog]

As you probably know, at some point TPCI decided to divide the Pokémon anime not only in seasons as it was done since 4kids days, but also in series, like Japan. In doing so it split the original series along generation I and generation II, to the point of retroactively reducing Season 3 from 52 episodes to 41 and raising season 2 from 49 (52) episodes to 60. While Japan itself divided the original series (Pocket Monsters) in 3 chapters (Kanto, Orange Islands and Johto) it is still neverthless one single series. Do you prefer TPCI's way and think that there are good reasons to separate Generations I and II in two series, or do you prefer Japan's way?

 

[Daren]

The Japanese way makes more sense because Kanto/OI and Johto are much more closely linked then later series' due to Ash not Oaking his team, Gary being the rival of both series, and having the same core protagonists in the cast (aside from Tracey replacing Brock in the OI).

 

[Orchid]

Seconded, I think Japan's way of grouping them together makes more sense. I guess I get why TPCI separated them, but I wouldn't consider Johto a separate series the same way I'd consider Hoenn a separate series, mostly because the cast (and Ash's design) stays the same throughout.

 

[Hidden Mew]

It is understandable from a marketing perspective. They wanted to make it clear what games Johto was promoting since most of the other series do have the games in the title. Even AG was rebranded to include Ruby and Sapphire in its dub title. But it doesn't make sense to separate them as if Kanto and Johto aren't part of the same series. There's really no reason to see Johto as its own separate series when it's tied so closely to Kanto, so I prefer how the Japanese version labels the original series instead.

 

[Ricbolog]

It is understandable from a marketing perspective. They wanted to make it clear what games Johto was promoting since most of the other series do have the games in the title. Even AG was rebranded to include Ruby and Sapphire in its dub title. But it doesn't make sense to separate them as if Kanto and Johto aren't part of the same series. There's really no reason to see Johto as its own separate series when it's tied so closely to Kanto, so I prefer how the Japanese version labels the original series instead.

Thanks for your feedback. Yeah, I guess it makes sense from a marketing perspective, even though they decided to not call the first one "Pokémon the Series: Red and Blue". They could've even simply called it "Pokémon the Series" like the first series is simply called "Pocket Monsters" in Japan, but TPCI uses that acronym when refering to the whole anime. I bet they would've called it "Pokémon the Series: The Origins", it that subtitle hadn't already be taken by another Pokémon animation product.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Thanks for your feedback. Yeah, I guess it makes sense from a marketing perspective, even though they decided to not call the first one "Pokémon the Series: Red and Blue". They could've even simply called it "Pokémon the Series" like the first series is simply called "Pocket Monsters" in Japan, but TPCI uses that acronym when refering to the whole anime. I bet they would've called it "Pokémon the Series: The Origins", it that subtitle hadn't already be taken by another Pokémon animation product.

You're welcome. My guess is that they didn't include Red and Blue in its title due to how they also included the Orange Island arc with the Kanto arc. Just calling in Pokemon the Series wouldn't have as much of a ring to it either. Origins would have been a cooler title if that wasn't already taken.

 

[Yash]

I'm entirely indifferent, lol.

Personally I was never a huge fan of the 4Kids-era "give every show a new subtitle" practice in the first place, and this just seems like an evolution of that. 4Kids even originally planned on rebranding the series Pokemon GS starting with Johto, so in a way it's come full circle.

It makes the actual series transitions feel less distinct in a way - in the original you go from just "Pocket Monsters" for 270+ episodes to "Pocket Monsters Advanced Generation" and you know it's something new, whereas in the dub I don't get a sense that "Pokemon Master Quest" is going to be that much different from "Pokemon Advanced." It's like how the Dragon Ball anime changed to Dragon Ball Z when Raditz appeared to convey that alright, this is the second half of the story, and it's going to go in some weird directions. It wouldn't have had that same punch if every season prior to that had a different title. (Not that Pokemon really ever reinvents the wheel that much with its new series, but AG was the first one to start rotating out its cast permanently, so it's got that going for it)

 

[Ricbolog]

I'm entirely indifferent, lol.

Personally I was never a huge fan of the 4Kids-era "give every show a new subtitle" practice in the first place, and this just seems like an evolution of that. 4Kids even originally planned on rebranding the series Pokemon GS starting with Johto, so in a way it's come full circle.

It makes the actual series transitions feel less distinct in a way - in the original you go from just "Pocket Monsters" for 270+ episodes to "Pocket Monsters Advanced Generation" and you know it's something new, whereas in the dub I don't get a sense that "Pokemon Master Quest" is going to be that much different from "Pokemon Advanced." It's like how the Dragon Ball anime changed to Dragon Ball Z when Raditz appeared to convey that alright, this is the second half of the story, and it's going to go in some weird directions. It wouldn't have had that same punch if every season prior to that had a different title. (Not that Pokemon really ever reinvents the wheel that much with its new series, but AG was the first one to start rotating out its cast permanently, so it's got that going for it)

I didn't know that 4kids originally planned to rebrand to rebrand the series "Pokémon GS"; Yes, they could have done that, since prior to "The Johto Journeys" the series was simply known as "Pokémon" ("Indigo League" and "Adventures in the Orange Islands" are posthumous subtitles).

 

[Islander Princess]

Gotta agree with everyone who's said they prefer the Japanese version of the series' label. Watching the series as a kid, I literally only knew it as Pokémon. I never really differentiated between Kanto and Johto, and to be honest, I still don't. I didn't even realize they had rebranded those seasons (and changed AG to Ruby and Sapphire) until last year maybe?

It does make sense in the grand scheme of things, since the series took on a more consistent naming approach starting with DP, but I personally just group together the first two seasons as OS (and I also still call the Hoenn series AG...again, while RS makes sense, I can't just break the habit after 17+ years.)

This whole conversation also reminds me how much the Journeys label initially threw me off. I can understand why they didn't go with Sword and Shield, since the series doesn't only take place in Galar, but to all of a sudden have it be different after all those years of just naming the series after the games was kind of weird.

 

[Galactic_V]

This case reminds me of how the first produced trilogy of Star Wars were rebranded to Episodes IV, V and VI during the late 90s when the franchise launched new movies. It's weird at first but it makes sense, and I'm not against it.

I skimmed through the previous posts so I'm not entirely sure if it's unpopular or not, yet my opinion on separating Kanto from Jouto is understandable. I've never been a fan that Japan lable Jouto as part of OS when it's pretty much based on a different gen. Perhaps back then OLM hadn't thought of rebranding the show, or believed it wasn't such a good idea, or who knows, even though I'd prefer it to be named, let's say, Pocket Monsters Gold & Silver.

Therefore I agree with TPCI's decision (I'm just not too fond of the "the Series" subtitle, is it really necessary to make the whole title so wordy?).

This whole conversation also reminds me how much the Journeys label initially threw me off. I can understand why they didn't go with Sword and Shield, since the series doesn't only take place in Galar, but to all of a sudden have it be different after all those years of just naming the series after the games was kind of weird.

I think so too, not exactly for the same reason. I don't like how random both Japanese and English titles sound, and the reason they are so distant from each other. The latter, for the first time ever in 20 years, decided to go back to its roots and exclude the subtitle, while the former kinda makes more sense (region hopping, etc), but with some people complaining about how misleading "Journeys" is.

 

[Ricbolog]

At the end I've come to the conclusion that both the japanese and western are valid choices:
- It makes sense to consider Kanto and Johto an unified series given how they are connected and how the main cast is the same, with AG being a fresh start clearly differentiating itself from what came before.
- On the other hand, it is more practical to split 270+ episodes in 110+ for Kanto/Orange and 150+ for Johto, not to mention that this way every number of the western series corresponds to its respective generation, while in the Japanese version, for example, the Gen V anime is the 4th series.

 

[L-05308]

It certainly is easy to refer to them as simply the Gen 1 and Gen 2 anime, but I get how they’re linked - depends on the context whether I refer to the OS or the dub names.

 

[Shadao]

If Johto had more emphasis on Gen II Pokémon or had a very distinct storyline not found in Kanto, then it would be appropriate to separate Kanto and Johto into two different series.

However, that is not the case. Aside from new Pokémon, a Johto episode is almost indistinguishable from a Kanto episode, especially when those Johto episodes focus on Kanto Pokémon instead of, you know, Johto Pokémon. Something like Ash vs Gary in the Silver Conference feels like an episode made for a Kanto season, with all the emphasis of rematch, rivalry, and closure. And the episodes that do focus on Johto Pokémon were often so boring or forgettable that you might as well leave it in the OS section rather than dividing it.

At least in terms of splitting the series on TV Tropes. Yeah, I helmed a project on TV Tropes to split and reorganize the Pokémon anime into separate anime series since it's clear that the show was too big to be placed under work page. This question came up during the discussion and while I was opened to the idea of splitting Kanto and Johto, I argued it would be far easier and less tedious to simply keep Kanto and Johto under the banner Original Series because A) I don't know which tropes belong to which episodes and which episodes belong to which subseries and B) Japan placed them under a single banner and because they are the original, their format supersedes the American version by a long shot.

 

[kantoskies]

Maybe this is a hot take but I think splitting Kanto / Johto into two separate "series" makes more sense than how XY and XYZ were marketed as two distinct series when they first came out.

 

[Ricbolog]

Maybe this is a hot take but I think splitting Kanto / Johto into two separate "series" makes more sense than how XY and XYZ were marketed as two distinct series when they first came out.

Yeah, while the Original Series itself was split in Japan in three different chapters, it is nevertheless more of an unitary series than XY and XYZ at least on official terms. Prime Video Japan lists XY and XYZ as separate series, while the Original Series has one single page, but it is split in two seasons: Kanto/Orange Islands (117 episodes) and Johto (161 episodes), similarly to the american version.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Yes, hardcore 999% yes. It's always bugged me how those two generations are lumped together. I know why, but it's so inconsistent with how every other series covers one generation.

 

[Gabo2oo]

Kanto and Johto are a connected series, but I think if they were to rebrand the "Advanced" series as Ruby & Sapphire, it made sense to also do this.
The whole labeling system was already a complete mess anyway, both in the west and Japan.

 

[Skyryan2468]

I agree with that because Gold and Silver is also known as Johto Journeys.

 

[Ricbolog]

I agree with that because Gold and Silver is also known as Johto Journeys.

More precisely, The Johto Journeys is the first season of Pokémon the series: Gold and Silver. But before TPCI created a specific name for the series, that part of the anime was generally referred to as the Johto league arc or as the Johto saga.

 

[Gabo2oo]

Now that I think of it, perhaps TPCI should rebrand the older seasons to have the saga's name on it, like they've been doing since DP.
Something like "Pokémon GS: The Johto Journeys" or "Pokémon RS: Advanced Battle". That would make them easier to understand.

Also, Battle Frontier should've had "Advanced" in the title to begin with, but there's nothing to be done about it now.