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Do you think Ash's Greninja was overrated?

Do you think it was?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 58.6%
  • No

    Votes: 14 24.1%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 10 17.2%

  • Total voters
    58
I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that despite all of the hype Greninja really didn't have a signature win. Charizard ended Gary's career, Sceptile took out Darkari, Infernape proved Paul wrong, and Lycanroc won the league. Greninja "almost" beat Diantha, but it still lost and it beat Sawyer (but that seems inconsequential IMO). I think if Greninja had won against Zard X, a lot of these people wouldn't be clamoring for it to return.
It would almost be poetic if Ash-Greninja was the one to take down Leon’s Charizard in Pokémon Journeys. That would more than make Ash’s Greninja worth returning for one more bout.
 
It would almost be poetic if Ash-Greninja was the one to take down Leon’s Charizard in Pokémon Journeys. That would more than make Ash’s Greninja worth returning for one more bout.
That might just lead to even more of a divide on it especially if it’s Ash-Greninja considering that not only would it take the win against the world champ in a battle that it wasn’t necessarily a part of getting Ash to but would do so in the form that they literally invented just for it. That would possibly give some Gary Stu vibes.
 
It would almost be poetic if Ash-Greninja was the one to take down Leon’s Charizard in Pokémon Journeys. That would more than make Ash’s Greninja worth returning for one more bout.

I would hate for that to happen.

It feels like it just pandering to XY fans who are still mad about the league.
 
re: Greninja returning
You know, until literally last week I'd have said Greninja's meme failure status would never be redeemed. Him suddenly returning to snipe the win versus Leon would call down significant (and deserved) backlash, and even finally beating Alain would need to be a high stakes match (so he'd pretty much need to knock him outta the PWC and I doubt they'd have Ash face two Charizard Aces in it) to be anything other than a half hearted attempt. I figured as soon as he hit the dirt in the finals he would never recover.
Now though, I've seen the internet can indeed forgive given the right moment.

Chance of that happening for Greninja: 2%.
Rounded up.
 
According to this chart below, Greninja actually did have a better W/L ratio than Talonflame or Hawlucha, as well as the "Ace" Gym leader wins.
Goodra and Pikachu (you have to manually calc Pikachu's Kalos record yourself since the chart combined all regions for him, but it's 73%--his highest gen 6 one by a good margin) are above him, though, and that's just for XY 'mon.


It's tricky to say because the show doesn't give us many barometers to compare; Pikachu's power wildly fluctuates all over the place and there aren't a lot of other ways to compare them, and Pokémon doesn't really do the hard line Dragon Ball style power comparison thing anyways.

Perhaps not too surprisingly his Kanto team is probably the most accomplished; they won both the Orange League and the battle with Brandon. But are they the strongest? No way to tell.

The reason i never take Win/loss charts as proof, is because they don't take into account the amount of battles. Its obvious that if you battle more, you also lose more (Just look at Pikachu compared to Kingler).
 
Talonflame is the strongest Kalos mon by a mile
Are you kidding me?
I don’t even have the energy to argue this one.

EDIT: There’s a clear distinction between “The most useful” and the “strongest”. Talonflame is the former but I highly doubt it’s the latter.
 
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If anyone of Ash’s pokemon should return it’s Incineroar. He hasn’t even battled yet since his evolution, nor have we seen much of its new personality. He would be an absolute beast in the PWC. He’s also been introduced relatively recently in the Alola episode too.
I'm definitely hoping Incineroar gets a battle. Sadly it's been a long time since a reserve has done anything but I think there may still be hope.

The reason i never take Win/loss charts as proof, is because they don't take into account the amount of battles. Its obvious that if you battle more, you also lose more (Just look at Pikachu compared to Kingler).
That particular chart does list the number of battles and Greninja has more than Talonflame.

What is this a reference to out of curiosity?
Spoilers for Star Wars: The Mandalorian's second season
After years of being something of a joke on the internet for getting taken out by a blind Han Solo swinging a stick, Boba Fett's reputation rapidly recovered after the sixth episode gave him several lengthy action scenes portraying him as a powerhouse. I've seen a good number of "I never liked Boba fett but I admit now he's actually cool" just in the first few days and similar sentiments.
 
Which is false, since you shouldn't combine Regular Greninja and Ash-Greninja's wins.

Yes, while its the same Pokemon, Ash-Greninja is a form. There is no way Regular Greninja can defeat Mega's for example.
I wouldn’t say there’s no way that it could. It would certainly be harder, but it could possibly win. After all, back in the Kalos League, Hawlucha was able to beat Astrid’s Mega Absol despite having lost to it the last time they battled.
 
Which is false, since you shouldn't combine Regular Greninja and Ash-Greninja's wins.
That’s like saying that you shouldn’t combine Pikachu’s battles with those when it’s wearing Ash’s hat during the Z-Move. It’s the same battle; same Pokémon and it fights half the battle as a regular Greninja.

Not to come off as mean but your “rules” are pretty arbitrary and these don’t make sense at times.
Win loss ratio accounts for battling more for instance. It adjusts accordingly for Pokémon who battle more and who battle less.
 
I wouldn’t say there’s no way that it could. It would certainly be harder, but it could possibly win. After all, back in the Kalos League, Hawlucha was able to beat Astrid’s Mega Absol despite having lost to it the last time they battled.

The thing is that i don't even count that battle, since in one scene it was a regular (When Hawlucha started the attack) and when it finished the attack it was suddenly a Mega (Like they forgot Astrid had a Mega Absol and that was a last minute addition).
 
The thing is that i don't even count that battle, since in one scene it was a regular (When Hawlucha started the attack) and when it finished the attack it was suddenly a Mega (Like they forgot Astrid had a Mega Absol and that was a last minute addition).
Because some time passed? I don’t really like this random picking and choosing of battles due to convenience. Astrid mega evolved her absol mid battle and Hawlucha defeated it.
 
The thing is that i don't even count that battle, since in one scene it was a regular (When Hawlucha started the attack) and when it finished the attack it was suddenly a Mega (Like they forgot Astrid had a Mega Absol and that was a last minute addition).
Because some time passed? I don’t really like this random picking and choosing of battles due to convenience. Astrid mega evolved her absol mid battle and Hawlucha defeated it.
Actually, that was an animation error. It was Mega Evolved the whole time, but they reused animation from the first Mega Evolution Special in its Psycho Cut shot, where it was depicted as a regular Absol.
 
Which is false, since you shouldn't combine Regular Greninja and Ash-Greninja's wins.
...I'm sorry, but what on earth is this argument? Why should Greninja and Ash-Greninja's wins be counted as separate when it's still the same individual doing the fighting? By that logic Talonflame didn't participate in as many Gyms as you claim she did, since she was unevolved for roughly half of them.

And sure, Hawlucha beating Astrid's Absol was only seen as a tail end, but we do have other examples of non-Mega Pokemon beating Mega ones which we did see in full, such as Pikachu and Dragonite beating Korrina's Mega Lucario in two separate instances.
 
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...I'm sorry, but what on earth is this argument? Why should Greninja and Ash-Greninja's wins be counted as separate when it's still the same individual doing the fighting? By that logic Talonflame didn't participate in as many Gyms as you claim she did, since she was unevolved for roughly half of them.

And sure, Hawlucha beating Astrid's Absol was only seen as a tail end, but we do have other examples of non-Mega Pokemon beating Mega ones which we did see in full, such as Pikachu and Dragonite beating Korrina's Mega Lucario in two separate instances.

Except Pikachu didn't defeat Mega Lucario alone. Fletchinder needed to bring a hit in (Previously, it was shown that Pikachu got smashed when it was a 1v1 match-up vs Mega Lucario).

Because Regular Greninja didn't face Mega Zard, the form did. Yes, its the same mon, but it gets a power buff, because the regular form cannot take down that powered-up form of the other Pokemon. So they are different wins.
 
Please note: The thread is from 1 year ago.
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