Do you think Ash's Greninja was overrated?

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Because Regular Greninja didn't face Mega Zard, the form did. Yes, its the same mon, but it gets a power buff, because the regular form cannot take down that powered-up form of the other Pokemon. So they are different wins.

...And?? If it's still the same Pokemon, it counts as a win for that Pokemon. Does Infernape's win against Paul's Electivire no longer count as his because he had to use Super Sayan Blaze to accomplish that, then? Because that too is a power buff. And before you say that that's different because Blaze is just a natural ability of Infernape's, well, guess what, Ash-Greninja is a natural ability of Greninja's too, just a once-in-a-blue-moon one.

 

[ii kanji]

Spoiler

Boba Fett

Spoiler

 

[Black&White]

Overrated as in certainly not Ash's strongest as people claim. Though it still accomplish plenty such as defeating Mega Sceptile and helping save Kalos. That's something I guess

 

[R1ke]

I'm definitely hoping Incineroar gets a battle. Sadly it's been a long time since a reserve has done anything but I think there may still be hope.

I reckon it’s possible given all the character returns we’ve seen so far. Even if it’s for a brief period. This is the best time for the writers to do it, they’ve already set up that Ash and Goh want to revisit Alola so maybe his Alola mons in general will get some more focus.

 

[Chidamari Sketch]

Well, a friend of mine linked me here, but I don't really have much input here. I never really held empathy for the Pokemon anime.

Buuuuut.... It should say something that Ash-Greninja was one of the biggest reasons why I stopped caring about Greninja and consequently why I just went back to Jigglypuff for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
(My actual main is King K. Rool and/or Mii Swordfighter but still; it's the only Pokemon representative I use.)

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'm not sure if I'd say it was overrated exactly. It got a lot of hype both in and out of the series, but it honestly never bothered me. Greninja easily became the most popular Kalos starter the moment it was revealed, so it was bound to get more attention once it appeared in the anime. I can still understand why it annoyed and frustrated people though. Greninja took center stage when it evolved and Ash-Greninja was a pretty major plot point for the last chuck of XY. People complained that it took attention away from the rest of Ash's team, but I didn't really feel that way in large part because there were significant problems with that team well before Greninja even evolved.

Ash's XY had a pretty solid start, but I think that it fell apart the moment they decided to rush through Goodra's evolutions. It's development felt hallow and its power felt pretty unbelievable because of the lack of experience it had up until it was a Goodra. They seemingly rushed its development so it could be used in the Clemont battle and then left it at the wetlands until the Kalos League. Noibat did virtually nothing between learning how to fly and evolving. They easily could have given it more to do since Ash caught it well before Frogadier evolved. They could have given Ash a proper sixth Pokemon instead of leaving the slot open for Goodra's return, which kind of makes me question why they bothered to rush its development and release it in retrospect if they just wanted to bring it back later.

As much as I can understand the complaints, I was pretty much fine with the focus on Greninja since it didn't frustrate me nearly as much as the other issues I had with Ash's team. The plot with Ash-Greninja was genuinely interesting since it was a brand new form exclusive to the anime at the time instead of being from the games. That made it more mysterious and made me more invested in the storyline. It is a shame that it was effectively done so that Ash could get his own kind of Mega Pokemon without actually using a reserved. The Kalos starters really should have gotten proper Mega Evolutions, but I was generally okay with it. It also helped that I could believe that they had a strong connection. It was one Ash's main powerhouses throughout XY and with Froakie choosing Ash to be its trainer, it seemed like they clicked well together. One of my favorite moments in XY was Ash talking to Greninja, asking it to train with him again and then Greninja later tossing its Pokeball at Ash to show that it still wanted Ash to be its trainer. It worked fine. I can still understand the complaints. If you don't like Greninja, didn't see a noticeable connection between them or didn't care about the Ash-Greninja plot, then it wouldn't be your cup of tea. I just think that fans putting the blame on Ash-Greninja for the lack of focus on his team use it as a scapegoat, or at least that's how it feels to me.

I can't really blame fans for wanting Greninja to come back. I was generally fine with Ash releasing it to help Zygarde. After all of its battles throughout XY and its special form, leaving it at Professor Oak's lab with the rest of Ash's team might have felt too moot or anticlimactic. However, I agree that the lack of a major victory really would make fans more upset about it. It doesn't make the storyline pointless, but they were seemingly building up to Ash-Greninja being able to beat Mega Charizard X after it mastered its true power. Ash and Greninja were able to do that, but they still couldn't win seemingly to maintain the status quo. Fans still might have been upset with Greninja leaving even if they had defeated Alain, but it would have made the conclusion a bit more rewarding to some extent. I'm still pretty sure that Greninja will come back at some point. It isn't a guarantee by any means, but the premise for Journeys does make it potentially easier for Ash to run into Greninja whenever they go back to Kalos and Greninja is still quite popular if that Google Pokemon of the Year was any indication too. I don't think that they'll bring back Alain for Ash to defeat. A part of me would kind of appreciate that since Alain winning the Kalos League didn't amount to anything, but I agree it would be too much pandering for fans who didn't like the Kalos League finale. That and we'll be lucky if they bring back any video game based characters. Anime-only characters still seem like a huge long shot at this point. But I wouldn't mind at least on paper somehow bringing Greninja back for the PWC.

 

[Daren]

A part of me would kind of appreciate that since Alain winning the Kalos League didn't amount to anything, but I agree it would be too much pandering for fans who didn't like the Kalos League finale.

To be fair, Alain having a super strong Megazard X who wins the league was transparent pandering to Charizard fans and enough wrong turns eventually turns right.

 

[CometCartoons]

I mean don't get me wrong. I loved Ash's greninja in XY it was his most powerful pokemon before he became champion. But I feel like if he returns to ash now he'll either steal the spotlight from ash's new pokemon or be sidelined like ash's gengar and farfetch'd. Either way fans won't be happy so it's better for the anime to not bring back greninja unless they use it to develop ash's new pokemon.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

I've never seen anyone deny that Greninja was overexposed but I have seen some people who've tried every form of mental gymnastics to claim that Charizard or Eevee were more overexposed when they've been in the cast, but that argument doesn't work because no other Pokemon except maybe Pikachu and Piplup got shown as much as Ash's Greninja.

 

[Ebhin ketchum]

For me it wasn't overrated , because even if Greninja had a lot of screen time it did not made me to worry about the other Pokemons of ash .During the X and Y period the games weren't so special and It acted as an boost to the company's growth. Also the main reason for the huge success of X and Y anime is :
*Greninja
*Serena

 

[Emelie]

I think it's OK to advertise Pokémon from the new generation (which was Kalos at the time). I would have preferred if the new season did that instead of advertising Pokémon from old generations. Lucario should have been advertised in DP when it was new and popular. This in combination with the fact that they aren't traveling around in Galar makes the new gen feel almost a little neglected.

Infernape had better character development though.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Apologies if I’m replying to an old thread, but I think Ash-Greninja is overrated simply because of the fact that it was build up to be some super strong powerful Pokemon and it’s best feat was… defeating newbie Sawyer’s Mega Sceptile. Ash-Greninja, with its newfound power, should have absolutely beaten Alain’s Mega Charizard X, but it fell in the weakest way possible which is embarrassing for an ace Pokemon especially one that got so much focus. It’s arc ended unsatisfyingly and the only reason why people say it’s Ashs strongest Pokemon is because of the Ash-Greninja form, when in reality the unmastered AG form is stronger than the mastered AG form as that form was able to almost defeat Diantha’s Mega Gardevoir.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Pre Journeys
1.Pikachu (Gimmick)
2.Greninja (Battle Bond)
3.Infernape (Blaze)
4.Charizard / Pikachu (Peak)
5.Sceptile (Overgrow)
6.Infernape / Sceptile
7.Snorlax
8.Greninja

 

[nickdt]

Pre Journeys
1.Pikachu (Gimmick)
2.Greninja (Battle Bond)
3.Infernape (Blaze)
4.Charizard / Pikachu (Peak)
5.Sceptile (Overgrow)
6.Infernape / Sceptile
7.Snorlax
8.Greninja

Yeahh... no

Base Greninja isn't even in the top 15 if we look at feats pre-journeys (Drops out top 15 even we include journeys mons)

1. Pikachu (Gimmick)
2. Pikachu (Peak)
3. Greninja (Battle Bond)
4. Charizard (Peak)
5. Sceptile
6. Infernape
7. Snorlax
8. Glalie
9. Krookodile
10. Talonflame
11. Swellow
12. Lyanroc
13. Bulbasaur
14. Incineroar
15. Hawlucha

Journeys
1. Pikachu (Gimmick)
2. Pikachu (Peak)
3. Greninja (Battle Bond)
4. Charizard (Peak)
5. Sceptile
6. Infernape
7. Lucario (Mega)
8. Snorlax
9. Dragonite
10. Glalie
11. Sirfetch'd
12. Dracovish
13. Talonflame
14. Gengar (Gimmick)
15. Swellow
16. Lycanroc
17. Bulbasaur
18. Incineroar
19. Hawlucha
20. Lucario

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Yeahh... no

Base Greninja isn't even in the top 15 if we look at feats pre-journeys (Drops out top 15 even we include journeys mons)

1. Pikachu (Gimmick)
2. Pikachu (Peak)
3. Greninja (Battle Bond)
4. Charizard (Peak)
5. Sceptile
6. Infernape
7. Snorlax
8. Glalie
9. Krookodile
10. Talonflame
11. Swellow
12. Lyanroc
13. Bulbasaur
14. Incineroar
15. Hawlucha

Journeys
1. Pikachu (Gimmick)
2. Pikachu (Peak)
3. Greninja (Battle Bond)
4. Charizard (Peak)
5. Sceptile
6. Infernape
7. Lucario (Mega)
8. Snorlax
9. Dragonite
10. Glalie
11. Sirfetch'd
12. Dracovish
13. Talonflame
14. Gengar (Gimmick)
15. Swellow
16. Lycanroc
17. Bulbasaur
18. Incineroar
19. Hawlucha
20. Lucario

What the...

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Yeahh... no

Base Greninja isn't even in the top 15 if we look at feats pre-journeys (Drops out top 15 even we include journeys mons)

1. Pikachu (Gimmick)
2. Pikachu (Peak)
3. Greninja (Battle Bond)
4. Charizard (Peak)
5. Sceptile
6. Infernape
7. Snorlax
8. Glalie
9. Krookodile
10. Talonflame
11. Swellow
12. Lyanroc
13. Bulbasaur
14. Incineroar
15. Hawlucha

Journeys
1. Pikachu (Gimmick)
2. Pikachu (Peak)
3. Greninja (Battle Bond)
4. Charizard (Peak)
5. Sceptile
6. Infernape
7. Lucario (Mega)
8. Snorlax
9. Dragonite
10. Glalie
11. Sirfetch'd
12. Dracovish
13. Talonflame
14. Gengar (Gimmick)
15. Swellow
16. Lycanroc
17. Bulbasaur
18. Incineroar
19. Hawlucha
20. Lucario

Uh… Greninja Battle Bond should be dropped to like 15 in both lists… that thing blows and a lot of Pokémon have better feats

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Yeahh... no

Base Greninja isn't even in the top 15 if we look at feats pre-journeys (Drops out top 15 even we include journeys mons)

1. Pikachu (Gimmick)
2. Pikachu (Peak)
3. Greninja (Battle Bond)
4. Charizard (Peak)
5. Sceptile
6. Infernape
7. Snorlax
8. Glalie
9. Krookodile
10. Talonflame
11. Swellow
12. Lyanroc
13. Bulbasaur
14. Incineroar
15. Hawlucha

I'd personally have Pikachu and Charizard tied,sure Pikachu did defeat Regice and tie with Latios along with it's feats at the Kalos League.But we seen Charizard do what it did vs Gary's team at the Johto League and outlast an Articuno during the Battle Frontier saga.Charizard would've defeated Dusclops if Ash didn't use Seismic Toss on the ghost type and it would've went on to face Solrock or been brought out later to face Brandon's Regice.It kept up it's training at Charicific Valley when it was absent from the DP series and didn't come back until the tail end of BW and we saw it pretty much toy with Iris's Dragonite and the match had to be stopped by N.

As for some of the others lower on the list I'd probably have Glalie tied with Krookodile and Swellow next to Talonflame,

 

[PaperSplash]

I liked Ash's Greninja as a character, especially when it was a Froakie, although I agree that its personality got quite a bit blander as it evolved. As for Ash-Greninja, I think it was a cool idea but quickly overstayed its welcome, and it didn't feel like they were doing anything too unique with it aside from the transformation itself. I also think it would have been more interesting if Ash was actually called out for relying on Greninja too much, similar to Charizard in early Johto. I'm not sure that idea would have fit into the arc they wanted, though.

 

[nickdt]

I liked Ash's Greninja as a character, especially when it was a Froakie, although I agree that its personality got quite a bit blander as it evolved. As for Ash-Greninja, I think it was a cool idea but quickly overstayed its welcome, and it didn't feel like they were doing anything too unique with it aside from the transformation itself. I also think it would have been more interesting if Ash was actually called out for relying on Greninja too much, similar to Charizard in early Johto. I'm not sure that idea would have fit into the arc they wanted, though.

I mean... Ash hardly relied on Greninja until the latter portion of XY though.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I just think some people are borderline unhealthily obsessed with it.