Do you think Ash's JN Team is the Worst Team he's ever had?

[Daren]

I'm not coming down on one side or the other regarding the reserves being used, but last time they were brought back in numbers it was just for the league so them not being used so far isn't necessarily too strong a mark against, especially since we had an episode in JN reminding people/telling new viewers that they exist.

And this might sound odd but I think the JN team getting less focus might make the reserves more likely, since if they were going to be the team used for what should be Ash's most important battles in Journeys you think they'd have spent more time building them up, similar to how most of the Johto team wasn't used against Gary.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Well nobody knows what will happen, but it does seem very likely to me given how much promotion it's been getting even outside the anime. The writers have been setting up to the series revisiting all old characters and pokemon and the fact that they will have to really stretch the idea of his current team taking out champions feels too far. Tomioka has written all the 3 most recent battles and seems in charge of the PWC now, and he's been flashing back and bringing up Ash's old pokemon. I doubt they would mention them at all otherwise since it draws attention to them.

They already defeated Iris, who is a Champion. Granted, that might not be the best example when she is a much younger Champion than someone like Cynthia, but regardless of that and how I feel about anime Iris becoming a Champion in the first place, I don't know if they'd really care about how much of a stretch it would be for Ash's current team to defeat characters like Cynthia. I don't think that bringing up his older Pokemon necessarily means anything, especially when Journeys has quite a few continuity nods.

I'm not coming down on one side or the other regarding the reserves being used, but last time they were brought back in numbers it was just for the league so them not being used so far isn't necessarily too strong a mark against, especially since we had an episode in JN reminding people/telling new viewers that they exist.

And this might sound odd but I think the JN team getting less focus might make the reserves more likely, since if they were going to be the team used for what should be Ash's most important battles in Journeys you think they'd have spent more time building them up, similar to how most of the Johto team wasn't used against Gary.

The last time they brought back Ash's reserves was also in DP, well over a decade ago, which is probably one other reason I have a hard time seeing them making use of his older Pokemon. An episode reminding the audience that these Pokemon exist alone doesn't really make me think that they're going somewhere with them. Again, it isn't impossible and I'm not against the idea, but I just don't think it's that likely to happen either.

The comparison to the Johto team not being used against Gary doesn't quite work for me. Or at least I think it makes the idea of the Journeys team being sideline in favor of reserves kind of worse. Ash's Johto team was pretty much sidelined for the last chuck of the original series and while there were still some good battles in there, including his match against Gary, it left his Johto Pokemon seriously underdeveloped. There were other reasons why that was the case, but if they're just going to do the same thing with his Journeys team, then that will probably make the problems with them worse or more apparent. Given how the lack of focus on specific Pokemon is more of a series issue rather than something specific to Ash's team, I don't think it necessarily means that using reserves is more likely to happen either.

 

[Blob]

For those who say the Johto and Unova teams had it worse... at least they were allowed to appear in fillers. This meant the gap between seeing Ash's Pokémon between episodes was a lot shorter than it is in Journies (excluding Palpitoad, Leavanny and Unfezant).

I would also take a Pokémon with 0 wins and lots of personality over what Journies writers are doing.

 

[Sai]

They already defeated Iris, who is a Champion. Granted, that might not be the best example when she is a much younger Champion than someone like Cynthia, but regardless of that and how I feel about anime Iris becoming a Champion in the first place, I don't know if they'd really care about how much of a stretch it would be for Ash's current team to defeat characters like Cynthia. I don't think that bringing up his older Pokemon necessarily means anything, especially when Journeys has quite a few continuity nods.


The last time they brought back Ash's reserves was also in DP, well over a decade ago, which is probably one other reason I have a hard time seeing them making use of his older Pokemon. An episode reminding the audience that these Pokemon exist alone doesn't really make me think that they're going somewhere with them. Again, it isn't impossible and I'm not against the idea, but I just don't think it's that likely to happen either.

The comparison to the Johto team not being used against Gary doesn't quite work for me. Or at least I think it makes the idea of the Journeys team being sideline in favor of reserves kind of worse. Ash's Johto team was pretty much sidelined for the last chuck of the original series and while there were still some good battles in there, including his match against Gary, it left his Johto Pokemon seriously underdeveloped. There were other reasons why that was the case, but if they're just going to do the same thing with his Journeys team, then that will probably make the problems with them worse or more apparent. Given how the lack of focus on specific Pokemon is more of a series issue rather than something specific to Ash's team, I don't think it necessarily means that using reserves is more likely to happen either.

Those were mainly focused on one generation, XY was self contained and the Alola league obviously was about Alola pokemon and humans so there was no reason for old pokemon to appear there. Most of the things that has happened in Journey's so far for example, are things people never would have believed would happen if you told it to them 5 years ago. This series is bringing back old characters and giving references to old pokemon. I severely doubt the writers won't want to focus on a variety of pokemon towards the end of the series. And yeah constantly putting Infernape in merch aimed at Japanese kids watching the current series does feel like marketing it for a reason. It's similar to how we got all that Piplup merch before we knew Dawn was getting any returns.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Those were mainly focused on one generation, XY was self contained and the Alola league obviously was about Alola pokemon and humans so there was no reason for old pokemon to appear there. Most of the things that has happened in Journey's so far for example, are things people never would have believed would happen if you told it to them 5 years ago. This series is bringing back old characters and giving references to old pokemon. I severely doubt the writers won't want to focus on a variety of pokemon towards the end of the series. And yeah constantly putting Infernape in merch aimed at Japanese kids watching the current series does feel like marketing it for a reason. It's similar to how we got all that Piplup merch before we knew Dawn was getting any returns.

I still think that might be reading too much into the merchandise, especially when we knew about BD/SP before Dawn's first return. At the moment, I'm just not convinced that it's anything more than wanting to capitalize on the starters' popularity due to the Sinnoh games. It could easily be hinting that they plan on doing something with Infernape, but I don't think that the merchandise and what Journeys has done thus far is enough to make it that much of a strong possibility to me.

 

[Nicolas721]

Obviously it's subjective, some people will take the battle prowess or the popular species over their number of appearances and that's fine, but I definitely go with the latter. Johto or Unova may not be the most developed or have the coolest mons but are still Pokemon that made lasting impressions on my mind and that I'd like to see them again, something that doesn't happen with the Journeys gang. Checking each member...

• Pikachu: Probably the one who fares better but not by much, in battle it's mostly used to showcase gimmicks and steal attention, and doesn't have much of a relationship with other Pokemon.
• Dragonite: Completed his story of learning Dragon Dance and becoming a formidable Dragonite in 15 minutes. Nowadays it's a reliable powerhouse and transport...But it's role isn't that bad and could be compared to past series' flyers like Noivern or Pigeotto, the problem is that it hasn't had much opportunities to put its motherly personality to use.
• Gengar: Completed his arc of abandonment in 15 minutes. Afterwards its appearances were minimum and just appears to trick the fans into thinking it'll be useful in a battle.
• Lucario: Ugh, where to start. A pampered baby that was praised for bullying other Pokemon after hatching, a "concentration" subplot that went nowhere, an evolution that had nothing to do with friendship, a terrible filler, a convenient aura gimmick that's used for resolving conflicts easily instead of solving the mysteries from DP, an horrendous Mega stone episode resolved with comedy, I could go on...
• Sirfetch'd: First it was invisible, then it had a decent story of becoming more heroic and defensive. and then it became invisible. I like him but it's clear the writers have zero plans for him, apparently an Original Character's Gallade was his best challenge.
• Dracovish: Completed his story of being born and experiencing the world in 5 minutes. Then it apparently became a beast off screen to the point it was able to 2HKNO a champion's almost strongest Pokemon. The solution to this inconsistency? Disappearing, of course!

Yeah, I'd rather have a Totodile that only knows Water Gun and always loses to Team Rocket but that appears consistently than an interesting Pokemon who only appears to look cool in battles.

 

[SammyW27]

Maybe not THE Worst, but close. The Johto and Isshu teams weren't great either...

Reminder that this is the Team that's going to defeat CYNTHIA.

The team with the least amount of chemistry, screentime, and investment put into it.

Along with Lance, Raihan, who knows how many other Champions and really strong trainers.

I think the showrunners are foolishly placing "power and abilities" over "personality and depth"...<_<

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

You know something I realized is also contributing to the lack of screentime for Ash's team? Its the fact that we scarcely get Team Rocket trying to steal Pokemon, so they don't have more chances to be sent out to fight. It certainly seems like battles are their only real chance to appear since the writers seem to have some issue with using them for fillers for simple interactions and such like past series.

 

[Kurolegacy]

You know something I realized is also contributing to the lack of screentime for Ash's team? Its the fact that we scarcely get Team Rocket trying to steal Pokemon, so they don't have more chances to be sent out to fight. It certainly seems like they have some issue with using them for fillers for simple interactions and such like past series.

That might be somewhat of a buffer for his Pokémon to get appearances but I wouldn’t really call it a very significant one. I mean, TRio weren’t always involved in a given plot in Alola, but the Alola team got plenty of spotlight. I’d say a major issue affecting their appearances is that they typically don’t seem to use their teams to help solve the issue of the week this time around and so, for the most part, Ash ends up using just Pikachu even if his others could help better.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Overall, I doubt that Ash will suddenly be good enough to take on even Raihan with this team, let alone be a match for Cynthia, Lance, or Leon. And that's just mentioning the Master Class trainers we even know about. The seven other trainers in this class (once Ash displaces the poor sod in 8th place) are the sort who could or even have previously annihilated Ash on better days than these.

Even with his Alola League victory, Ash is just not ready for this high level competition. He can certainly reach them and battle them but... no, I do not believe he can realistically reach Leon in the finals. Winning in Alola doesn't automatically mean he gets to be a success story in every later series goal. Orange Islands and Battle Frontier turned out to be one-offs, after all.

 

[ManUtd22]

This season is so boring that no one become care about anything or where is the stpry is gping so having the wrost team or not is small point in the term of the worst story

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Overall, I doubt that Ash will suddenly be good enough to take on even Raihan with this team, let alone be a match for Cynthia, Lance, or Leon. And that's just mentioning the Master Class trainers we even know about. The seven other trainers in this class (once Ash displaces the poor sod in 8th place) are the sort who could or even have previously annihilated Ash on better days than these.

Even with his Alola League victory, Ash is just not ready for this high level competition. He can certainly reach them and battle them but... no, I do not believe he can realistically reach Leon in the finals. Winning in Alola doesn't automatically mean he gets to be a success story in every later series goal. Orange Islands and Battle Frontier turned out to be one-offs, after all.

Yes but they are going to make him that good through bs

 

[Daren]

Overall, I doubt that Ash will suddenly be good enough to take on even Raihan with this team, let alone be a match for Cynthia, Lance, or Leon. And that's just mentioning the Master Class trainers we even know about. The seven other trainers in this class (once Ash displaces the poor sod in 8th place) are the sort who could or even have previously annihilated Ash on better days than these.

Even with his Alola League victory, Ash is just not ready for this high level competition. He can certainly reach them and battle them but... no, I do not believe he can realistically reach Leon in the finals. Winning in Alola doesn't automatically mean he gets to be a success story in every later series goal. Orange Islands and Battle Frontier turned out to be one-offs, after all.

I think you're putting too much faith in consistent power scaling. If "Ash shouldn't be ready for these people" mattered it would work both ways and he'd have breezed through Sinnoh after winning the Battle Frontier instead of having his worst W/L rate there.

Plus OI and BF were in retrospect just there to pad out before the next game league; that's not what's going on in JN where Leon was set up as the final boss really early on.
Edit: Plus he already beat a champion in JN.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I still find it hard to believe that Ash could defeat Champion Cynthia of all trainers. He's defeated some pretty high level trainers like Professor Kukui in SuMo and recently the newly crowned Unova Champion, Iris. Someone like Raihan and maaaaybe Lance I could believe, but Champion Cynthia is on a whole different level.

 

[HiroHunter]

For me I believe Ash can put up a damn good fight vs any of the Champions he may not win but he'll sure as hell make them work for it.

 

[Unireon]

Finally, something more contrived than Gou's captures.

Satoshi and this underdeveloped team, getting plot-armor and pulling a DeM, to defeat Shirona.

Even worse if Lucario tanks everything to do a reversal.

 

[Blob]

Finally, something more contrived than Gou's captures.

Satoshi and this underdeveloped team, getting plot-armor and pulling a DeM, to defeat Shirona.

Even worse if Lucario tanks everything to do a reversal.

Don't forget the classic staple of: Only two of Ash's Pokémon are allowed to win and one of them has "achu" in their name.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Don't forget the classic staple of: Only two of Ash's Pokémon are allowed to win and one of them has "achu" in their name.

Love to know what happens once the full battles start coming out. After all, Pikachu, Lucario and Dragonite have been carrying this team (and Dragonite hasn’t fainted once yet). Bet Goodra’s curse hits Dragonite in that situation.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I have to say no for now if only because Journeys isn't done yet, so the team does still have time to pick itself up and fix at least some of its issues. However, it says a lot that even the less developed teams like Johto and Unova already had most of their members completely established by the stage that Journeys is at whereas of this team the only Pokemon I could even consider to be properly fleshed out is Lucario. Granted, Dragonite, Gengar, and Sirfetch'd have certainly gotten their moments, but they still feel pretty lacking compared to past Pokemon. Heck, Lucario is nowhere close to the level of prominence that other ace Pokemon have gotten (at best he's more like Buizel or Hawlucha, who were prominent members of their respective teams but not the aces), so that should give an idea of how much worse the rest of the team is faring. Sirfetch'd has yet to learn a single STAB move and Dracovish has only participated in a single battle despite having debuted a little over a year ago. I cannot believe that the team that is effectively Ash's Champion Team feels like it's made up of Unfezants (minus the awful track record in battles... mostly. RIP Kamon...) when ideally it should be made up of Infernapes.

 

[Alola]

The series is still ongoing, so I think it's unfair to reach a decision when there is still time for development, battles, or just screen time.

I don't recall people comparing Ash's team of just Pikachu, Rowlet, Lycanroc, and Torracat with his previous teams at the same amount episode-wise during SM (who had less battles as a whole than in Journeys within the same amount of episodes).