Do you think Ash's JN Team is the Worst Team he's ever had?

[Kurolegacy]

Ash’s JN team is my favorite because it is the only one of Ash’s team that is going up against (and beating) champion level opponents constantly

Honestly, that has more to do with them having plot armor than anything else. Given that the narrative is for Ash to fight champion level opponents, if you put any of his other Pokémon in their place, you’d get the same results.

 

[Hidden Mew]

It's definitely a case of plot armor as opposed to believable strength. While I still don't think it's Ash's worst team, the minimal screentime really makes it hard to make his Pokemon's strength feel believable, or at least earned.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

I hate to admit it but it really really does feel like plot armour with his JN team.

And that armour seems to be super bulky and heavy even though said team barely even deserves it.

Doesn't help that they've run the whole "Oh no Ash has been backed into a corner but don't worry, with the power of poor writing he might just wing his way outta this one." schtick to the ground after how good Volkner's battle was.

Looking at you Drasna battle.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Yeah, it is such a horrificially blatant case of plot armor here. At least the lesser accomplishments and the strength of his Hoenn and Sinnoh teams actually feel legit gained. Ash and his Journeys team categorically do not deserve to be beating Champion level fighters on a regular basis and the fact that Journeys tries to justify this has given it a spot as my most despised series.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

So, I happened to come across this on YouTube:

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

So, I happened to come across this on YouTube:

Yeah JN really suffered from this, but SM’s team was bad too.
Rowlet- Focused way too much on the comedy and shoved down our throats too much
Incineroar- Great backstory but was irreverent unless it had to do with Kukui
Melmetal- caught late and served as comic relief
Naganadel- MIA for most of the time
Only one done consistently well was Lycanroc.
Also Pikachu in SM- shoved down our throats, given DEM gimmick
Pikachu in JN- acts like Ash (too playful and cheeky) the DEM comes back, hogs too much spotlight kind of (cough Volkner and Steven)

 

[Kurolegacy]

Yeah JN really suffered from this, but SM’s team was bad too.
Rowlet- Focused way too much on the comedy and shoved down our throats too much
Incineroar- Great backstory but was irreverent unless it had to do with Kukui
Melmetal- caught late and served as comic relief
Naganadel- MIA for most of the time
Only one done consistently well was Lycanroc.
Also Pikachu in SM- shoved down our throats, given DEM gimmick
Pikachu in JN- acts like Ash (too playful and cheeky) the DEM comes back, hogs too much spotlight kind of (cough Volkner and Steven)

Even for all those complaints, the handling of the Journeys team is so much worse. At least the SM team didn’t just flat out disappear for ridiculous lengths of time during which they pretended that Pikachu was Ash’s only Pokémon. Like, remember in the TR vacation episode where Ash and Go battle the Matori matrix and were in trouble because Pikachu and Riolu got beaten despite Ash having both a Dragonite and Gengar at that time? Something like that would never happen with the SM team since the writers made consistent use of them.

 

[Sai]

Yeah, it is such a horrificially blatant case of plot armor here. At least the lesser accomplishments and the strength of his Hoenn and Sinnoh teams actually feel legit gained. Ash and his Journeys team categorically do not deserve to be beating Champion level fighters on a regular basis and the fact that Journeys tries to justify this has given it a spot as my most despised series.

He's only battling 3 champion level characters and Pikachu starred in the Steven battle.

 

[HiroHunter]

He's only battling 3 champion level characters and Pikachu starred in the Steven battle.

This doesn't counter his point at all.

 

[Sai]

This doesn't counter his point at all.

It does, because Pikachu carried the Steven battle. Ash also isn't battling 7 champions, he's only battling 3. Granted we don't know what will happen in the next two yet.

 

[HiroHunter]

It does, because Pikachu carried the Steven battle. Ash also isn't battling 7 champions, he's only battling 3. Granted we don't know what will happen in the next two yet.

It doesn't. And just because Pikachu carried the Steven battle doesn't mean the same will be true for the other two battles. And that still doesn't mean the the rest of the JN team deserves to be here.

 

[Unireon]

It doesn't. And just because Pikachu carried the Steven battle doesn't mean the same will be true for the other two battles. And that still doesn't mean the the rest of the JN team deserves to be here.

That makes it even worse, since the rest need to be carried because they can't deal with the challenge.

If Journeys was meant to be a Commemorative thing, then an All-Stars Team would have made more sense.

 

[Imtnt]

The treatment for Dracovish seemed reapy bad... if he wont get points against Cynthia he will be one of the worst picks. We still need to see what happens though, Gengar and Pikachu were worthy.....
I dont think Ash made a good development for every single onw of them.. but in XY he focused in Gninja only(!) and thats not the case here. The problem is the focus on other stuff, in a messy / unorgenized / unnecesary way so Ash's process steped a side to offscreen and we cant deal with that change. Ash used to be walking by his pokemon differently onscreen.

 

[HiroHunter]

. but in XY he focused in Gninja only(!)

This only really started happening in XYZ. Before that his focus was more balanced. And even in XYZ it wasn't that bad overall.

 

[Turbo]

Didn’t mean to keep reviving this thread but recently had this epiphany for why there’s discourse and why the poll results above are so split.

Something I noticed with all the talk about the Pokémon usage in Journeys here and on other platforms is that it simply comes down to what each viewer prioritize and want in a series

As everything is subjective and Journeys offers arguably the most different approach to a lot of factors from past series having people react differently to the differences which is why I felt to mention this somewhat obvious thing.

Some viewers come more for the Pokémon, some more for the characters, some more for the story, some to just see the game stuff adapted, etc etc

Not saying anyone is more correct but I think that explains a lot of the discourse when it comes to Journeys

So for example Ash’s Journey's Team
For someone like me I’ve never valued the Pokémon interactions highly or view them as a requirement for a series.

They’re cute moments and can sometimes improve or hinder episodes. And I don’t care for them as much as the human characters

But for other people they watch the series to see the Pokémon and all their interactions and moments and such. And get a lot of enjoyment from them. Making them more of a requirement for their watching experience as they’re are here more for the Pokémon

So when Journeys rarely have the Pokémon have those interactions people like me don’t really notice or care. And others that come for or expect those moments are disappointed and such.

I don’t want to go into the whole strength argument but similar logic can be applied there as well

Now if you have a problem with Journeys structure and format that’s a separate thing

I’m just bringing up that some people value different things to different degrees

Like how some people want more Gen 8 stuff in journeys, and others don’t or just don’t care, each side can feel that way but neither are objectively right or wrong it’s all subjective

So if Ash’s Journeys team doesn’t check your boxes for a good team that’s fine just know it probably checks other boxes for other people

As for me and I think I said it before, his JN team as in each Pokémon individually are more developed than a majority of his other Pokémon with only Pokémon like Greninja, Infernape, Charizard having more “development”. And I could argue Pokémon like Lucario and Gengar can be in that group.
There’s exceptions like Dracovish, one I view more as comedic relief, but it’s hard for me personally to acknowledge when people (not necessarily here) try to claim Lucario has no development or personality.

But if you value the interactions with other Pokémon and the other Pokémon on the team highly then that’s fine it’s not even on my list of criteria. And if you value how many episodes are dedicated to “training” that’s also fine, I don’t need a “number” met.

Just everyone values different things


Don’t attack me

 

[Eevee298]

Worst handled alongside his BW team. I mean the rotation fiasco is equal to the Pokémon getting barley screentime.

 

[Nicolas721]

The Journeys team has gotten lots of attention in the last months, but most of it has been about their battling skills rather than their personality so they really didn't win me over. However, it could be fun to analize their roles in battle and how they've changed (btw the recent events confirms they're all dudes):

• Pikachu: He went from The Ace to some kind of Secret Card that's very reliant on 10M Thunderbolt. Many people welcomed the change, but I personally liked how even with hundreds of battles under his sleeve the writers could still keep him fresh with strategies like the ones shown in the Bea battle.
• Dragonite: Hasn't gotten much or changed much, apparently the Iris battle was the end rather than a new beginning. He did got the Draco Meteor Tackle or whatever it's called, so there's that to look forward to.
• Gengar: He went from zero to hero and got the biggest improvement of the group. He's either a speedy sweeper with great coverage or a giant wall that uses his mouth to his advantage. Both styles are very interesting and will be remembered in years to come, through I wish there was more synergy between the two.
• Lucario: Sigh...He became full Greninja and is basically the Ace of the team, the one who is expected to win on major battles and who has The Power of Friendship™ by his side. I like how he's more special-focused than other Lucarios but I don't like how his Aura Sphere is basically another 10M Thunderbolt.
• Sirfetch'd: Well, he...finally learnt Meteor Assault. That's all. The next two battles will define whether he's the Torterra of this generation or not, which would be a shame because he had a lot of potential.
• Dracovish: I'm glad to see it losing more as its was way too OP in its first appearances. However, it still doesn't feel really unique to me, it does not have an unique battle style (there's potential with the biting) and his signature move looks very generic. Kinda feels like a glass cannon.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Many people welcomed the change,

How do people like Pikachu being more reliant on the biggest DEM in this franchise?

 

[Turbo]

How do people like Pikachu being more reliant on the biggest DEM in this franchise?

Mainly because I think a good number of people don’t view Z moves (or the other mechanics) as Deus Ex Machina. And some actually like them and think they’re cool or whatever

I don’t know about being reliant but I think with all the mechanics being used against Ash it makes it more acceptable for him to use the mechanics (only time he’s used a mechanic without the opponent using one was Volkner and I guess the vines lol)

Like I can see if it was just normal Metagross that Pikachu was having trouble with and he used the Z move to win then it would feel a bit over reliant but since it’s Mega Metagross it more or less even the playing field as it was mechanic vs mechanic

And I think Pikachu from just being Pikachu can get away with a lot in a lot of aspects

 

[Imtnt]

Pikachu's Z move is cool enough, to be honest, and we all know no mater what level and exp he gets his normal tounderbolt wont be over powered enough to consider him a top pokemon. It used to be its speed and intensity but even though team rocket blasts off it isn't powerhouse in the PWC. Trump card, Wild card... it is better than being ace and Ash's team will lack the real deal and will never make it to the top 3. Plus, give it a temporary condition like Z move or Mega evolution makes is better than puahing it to evolve to Raichu in order to get more power - cause Pikachu can't disappear from this show. And I personally prefer he will use a one shot only thing and not getting a mega-over-sized-Dai-tounder-ball whenever he wants.

For me the process of Lucario was good, his link with Ash understandable, but his step up with Gninja wasn't enough for me to be sure he is a better version from what Gninja was. I hope his Debut in the Semis will prove it wrong. To beat Mega Garchomp in a convincing way might be that extra signature.

About the others we will see..