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Do you think Sun and Moon is a critical and financial failure?

That isn't really a matter of what someone "thinks"; what you are asking about is easily verifiable objective data.

Their aggregate review score is not significantly worse than any previous Pokémon game, with most professional reviewers giving them fairly high marks. They are also the third best-selling 3DS games, after Mario Kart 7 and Pokémon X & Y.

So no, they are not a failure in either of those senses.

Subjectively, sure, some fans hate them and find them to be the weakest entries, but there's not really a core series Pokémon game in existence that you can't say that about.
 
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That's subjective

It had its moments, but they were often months and even years apart - the entire second year was a waste and everything related to the games was basically completely disconnected from the rest of the anime

Heck, they even rebooted the series in the third year by reintroducing how Z-Moves worked and suddenly started giving everyone pokemon for the sole purpose of using them in the league

It had a little bit of everything for everybody, but pleased no one
 
I heard that Sun and Moon is the weakest of the core series. Do you think that they critically and financially failed?
In my opinion, they were the second best, and they were the ones that brought me back into the games after XY almost made me quit (mostly due to feeling "been there, done that"), and financially I don't think so since they sold more or less the same as previous gens.
 
Literally no, I loved the Alola games!

That's subjective

It had its moments, but they were often months and even years apart - the entire second year was a waste and everything related to the games was basically completely disconnected from the rest of the anime

Heck, they even rebooted the series in the third year by reintroducing how Z-Moves worked and suddenly started giving everyone pokemon for the sole purpose of using them in the league

It had a little bit of everything for everybody, but pleased no one

I'm so confused as to what this post is about?
 
I had a far better time with Sun & Moon than I did with the XY games. Jesus, they somehow felt like a total slog...

granted though I have the Ultra version rather than the vanilla one so I wouldn't know if it's any better than the original.
 
Dunno about financial failure since I don't know how much the games sold but I thought the games were kind of messy. I thought they were much better than X and Y by a long shot but still not up to GF's usual standard of perfection.
 
granted though I have the Ultra version rather than the vanilla one so I wouldn't know if it's any better than the original.

It kinda depends on what you're wanting from the game. The Ultra versions have much, much more to offer in terms of features and content: Ultra Warp Ride, the Battle Agency, the Photo Club, Mantine Surf, Episode RR, the Kantonian Gym, a proper eighth Trial, a proper Victory Road, collectible Totem Stickers that you can trade in for Totem-sized Pokémon (this replaces the Zygarde Cell hunt from the originals, with Zygarde in USUM being essentially a typical post-game Legendary), a plethora of small sidequests sprinkled throughout the game, a few new Z-Moves, the 27 Mega Stones that were absent from Sun & Moon made purchasable with BP (in the original SM, they were only available through limited-time-only download codes which have all since expired), 175 extra Pokémon added to the Regional Dex and other areas, 19 of the 28 Pokémon that were available through Island Scan in SM are rotated for different species, and the introduction of 5 entirely new Pokémon species that did not exist until USUM (albeit one of them is a Mythical Pokémon), as well as 3 new forms for Necrozma and a (sort of) event-exclusive form for Lycanroc.

Where the Ultra games become contentious is in the changes (or lack thereof) that they make to the storyline, which is broadly identical to Sun & Moon up until the second time you visit Aether Paradise. Some feel that the lack of divergence makes the price of the games hard to justify if they already bought and played the originals, while others simply dislike the alternative direction that the Ultra games take the last stretch of the story in and prefer how it played out in SM.

(Personally, I've a mixed opinion. I do wish that the story and progression was more divergent from the originals for more of the game, and as far as the actual changes go, there are some I prefer and some I do not - there's one pretty crucial character scene involving Lillie that was present in SM but then cut from USUM, and this only strikes me as reductive, with the excuse given within the story being completely arbitrary. Similarly, Lana's characterization during her Trial is needlessly watered down, with all her fun impishness removed in favor of making her a generic instruction dispenser. On the other hand, while it is rather unfortunate that USUM players miss out on Lillie cathartically confronting Lusamine after the latter has finally gone off the deep end as she does in SM, I feel like what's lost in terms of Lillie's arc is somewhat made up for by what's added to Lusamine's, whose motivation I find a lot clearer in USUM (I would argue that her wanting to be the sole hero who halts the imminent danger of Necrozma more effectively illustrates her savior complex, whereas her reasoning for dropping a horde of Ultra Beasts on Alola in SM essentially boils down to: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) and who gets the opportunity to receive actual closure within her story rather than being left in limbo as was the case in SM. Although, I actually think that these dual portrayals create an interesting contrast - my reading of it is that what we see in SM is what happens when she's left to wallow in her own grief, while the events depicted in USUM show what happens when someone - such as the Ultra Recon Squad in this case - intervenes and gives her something productive to focus on. Which is partly why I wish that more of the early and middle game story was different, as I already quite like what's going on in the back end. Aside from that, I also think that Hau and Gladion receive a nice extra degree of development in USUM, but their prior depictions weren't exactly bad - just not as fleshed out.)
 
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man, i really dislike these kinds of takes (even if it isn't a take per se, but it still pushes the perspective that SM was a failure of some sort) because there will always be someone who likes a pokemon game for what it has to offer and what it brings to the table. the thing most people need to understand is that every single pokemon game, no matter what it is, will always have people that like it and dislike it. this has been a thing since the dawn of pokemon gaming. for as much as people worship gen 5 as the peak of pokemon gaming these days, you wouldn't believe how much it got crapped on and then some when it was first released. and even these days, there are still people who aren't fond of gen 5. the fanbase is not monolithic by any means, so i don't think any main series game is an objective failure given that (yet, it would take a LOT to get there).

that all said, credit where credit is due because Game Freak did venture out of their comfort zone even if only a tad with SM and USUM. totem pokemon honestly were adequately challenging to me (at least, if you're not outright looking for ways to cheese them), and the trial captains and kahuna system was honestly really fun, even if it was the gym leader system re-dressed in different clothes, so to speak. i really liked Kukui's personality, i honestly didn't mind Lillie too much and Team Skull was an honest to goodness breath of fresh air compared to the usual "take over the world" evil teams we have seen in past generations considering they're just a regular ol' band of meme-worthy goons. in short, i thought SM was really fun, and it was also the first game i started to bother shiny hunting since SOS chaining made that super easy.

so no, it's not a failure. you (general "you", mind) may not like it, but disliking a game doesn't mean it's an objective failure. a game might be an objective failure if it's full of bugs and glitches and it's an absolute unplayable mess, but no pokemon game has reached that point (yet).
 
I'm pretty sure they weren't a financial failure, nor were they really a failure among critics. Nevertheless, they remain my least favorite games in the series (Sword/Shield should really be, but I already knew what to expect from them, Sun/Moon came out when the series had higher standards).
 
SwSh are the worst ones (among initial versions) if you go by Metacritic, being lower than BW, XY and SM by 7-8 points. BW are the lowest in terms of sales, but not by much compared to RS, XY and SM (less than 5%).
 
These numbers are official but from the end of October, 2019. And all the numbers are in million.

Pokémon X & Pokémon Y - 16.42
Pokémon Sun & Pokémon Moon - 16.17
Pokémon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire - 14.23
Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee - 11.28
Pokémon Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon - 8.57

X&Y are the most sold ones, but the margin between XY and SM is not that much. Also it ought to be taken in consideration that XY never had third/fourth versions, while Sun and Moon did. If it wasn't for the Ultra versions, Sun and Moon probably would have surpassed XY.
 
gyms, anime ... without battles the sales fall...

also they showed too much of the game to early+ Z-moves werent enough good in effects...

Was better bc of good new good moves and abilities and many dual typings.
The better in game effects moves and abilities have the better the games and sales.

Ultra made good sale as versions together.
 
I'm pretty sure they weren't a financial failure, nor were they really a failure among critics. Nevertheless, they remain my least favorite games in the series (Sword/Shield should really be, but I already knew what to expect from them, Sun/Moon came out when the series had higher standards).

This is exactly how I feel. I hate Sun and Moon, they're my least favorite games. They were such a disappointment in all areas.
With Sword/Shield I had already very very low standards so I didn't feel as disappointed or hated them.

Anyway, I don't think they failed financially because sales speak for themselves.
Also I don't trust critics because we never know if they are being honest and truthful or paid by Nintendo. They gave good scores to bad games like Sword, Shield, XY, etc.
 
If Sun and Moon were a financial failure, I'm pretty sure Nintendo would have said something about the games "underperforming their expectations".

And how people feel about the games are subjective - I actually enjoyed SM / USUM. I will admit that yes, I have my list of gripes about the games, but they certainly had the most enjoyable storyline (for me anyway) that I've encountered in a Pokemon game for some time.

Also I don't trust critics because we never know if they are being honest and truthful or paid by Nintendo. They gave good scores to bad games like Sword, Shield, XY, etc.

You also have to take into account when reviewing a critic's review of a Pokemon game: there is a good chance the critic is not as hardcore of a fan that you may be and may not have the same level of expectations based on experience with the games that you may have.
 
Please note: The thread is from 4 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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