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  • AussieEevee trains in the Bellsprout Tower on his journey through Johto. Watch as he ascends to the next level here.

Do you think the DP and BW series have a misleading style?

Hello.
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Hopefully this isn't too confusing, but:

The anime touches on some points that aren't babyish in any way at all. All previous series handled it well, especially AG (Lucario and the Mystery of Mew: Lucario's death), but since DP (even DP001) it just seems... Babyish in style. It touches on important points (Arceus and the Jewel of Life) but fills all unimportant points with Filler that seems aimed towards 6-8 year olds. Which is a shame.

The anime before this had filler, not disputing that, but it wasn't babyish humour. Compare the first episode with DP's first episode. Similar themes, almost copied I'd say, but the filler is different hugely.

Compare electric shocks with childish 'mon acting like preschoolers in a room that looks strangly like a child's room with Piplup not caring.

I'm almost embarrassed to watch it nowadays in the home with parents due to the babyish moments.

Discuss.
 
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I completely agree with you the show is getting more and more childish,cheesy stories,no drama,no sad scenes no death nothing AT ALL!!

I also sometimes feels embarrassed while watching it, especially when some of my friends compare it with other anime.
 
...
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I disagree.
Evil Togepi are not for 6-8-year-olds.
Alright, seriously- BW does seem to be a bit childish, but I don't consider the anime to be completely kiddy.
 
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I had no idea that the slapstick comedy in Kanto wasn't childish.
 
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Alright, seriously- BW does seem to be a bit childish, but I don't consider the anime to be completely kiddy.
Sadly, that's my Point. A lot of it is adult. It's just covered up by the kiddy filler.
 
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The entire series is, and has always been, aimed at 6-8 year olds, guys. Older episodes just felt "more aimed towards your age" because you were closer to that age group when you watched them.
 
Gonna be a tl;dr Master!
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Pokemon Hunter J fucking died in DP.

That kills half the argument right there.
 
fight me
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Event/character wise I really can't see any difference between sagas in terms of childishness, they're all childish. One thing from BW that does make it seem a bit more childish for me is the art. It's just so... flat and play-doughy.
 
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The entire series is, and has always been, aimed at 6-8 year olds, guys. Older episodes just felt "more aimed towards your age" because you were closer to that age group when you watched them.
Later fan of Pokémon here.

Started at DP, then watched the rest.
Gotta say, 11 to 13 in terms of age difference in viewing 6-8?

Not a lot.
 
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Whilst the show has always been for kids, there's been some things added for the older fans. I'd say the most was during DP: Shinji's rivalry with Satoshi, Hunter Jun, ect. TR have always provided some things too (and we're designed with older fans in mind from what I remember of Takeshi Shudo's blogs). Some things could have been better but overall, I can't see how this arguement applies to DP. Best Wishes, I'll give you though.
 
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Hmm, I'm not really sure how the electric shocks in early Kanto are indicative of the show being any less childish back then. Sure, Ash got his arse zapped ad nauseum in the early episodes because Pikachu was such a cold-hearted bastard, but it's not like he was actually damaged in any way - just momentarily charred and compelled to stagger about a bit. The show's tendency toward silly, pratfall-driven humour, as evident in Kanto as anywhere else, has never really reeked of sophistication to me. :p
 
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How exactly are DP and BW's fillers more... "babyish" than those of previous sagas? They seem the same to me, except less repetitive than they are now. DP didn't even have that many fillers anyway.
 
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@Shinneth : Wait, it was never confirmed (Especially not in the anime itself) that J actually died. It's likely, but it was kinda avoided in itself, so... I dunno if that kills the argument.
 
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They showed her still being in her ship just as the water pressure crushed it and blew the motherfucker up in an explosion so immense she would've needed an emergency Abra she could instantly call on in order to survive that shit. I'm actually surprised they showed as much as they did. But given that J fulfilled her role in DP and there's definitely no need for her in the light-hearted bullshit world of BW, I'm taking it on good faith that the anime intended to kill her off. She was pretty damn evil and jail would've been a lousy way out for her, so going out with a literal bang would make sense.

Point is, the anime showed enough to make a pretty hard argument that J survived. And honestly, aside from like two movies, this entire series has never outright killed anyone, much less implied it. The fact that DP actually went as far to strongly imply death when no other series has so far should at least critically injure the argument being made against it being overtly childish.

Hell, even without J's death I really don't think DP really fits the argument. I can name a number of shit about DP off the top of my head that's gone right over the heads of younger viewers, just as the show's pretty much always done since the beginning. But BW? That one does feel dumbed down most of the time, I'll give the topic that.
 
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I also see no more fluff than there always was in Pokemon. There were some rather dark things in the first saga. In fact, I may even go so far to say that the original Kanto saga was the most hostile the pokemon world has ever been, but only because Ash was at such a low point that the world seemed almost impossibly unforgiving. But it's also the most ridiculous it's ever been as well. Most of it is played for laughs. If what you're getting at is that the pokemon world is not as hostile as it was, I may agree with you in the matter that by Johto, things seemed less hostile. (I honestly don't remember Orange well enough to comment on it) The ridiculous factor also petered out, though. This continued through to the end of AG, where the most hostile the anime got was with the big villian encounters, or in the key battles of the anime (both gyms and contests). This is why most of the anime seemed bland whenever an important event wasn't going on, and why people skip the fillers a lot.

I will argue that DP was the saga that the writers somewhat got their backbone back. They made both the rival and the villians more hostile than they had ever been. True, we still have fluff going on, but it is mostly drowned out by other interesting things going on, and when they really wanted to be funny, we got some truly hilarious moments. Kiddish? Perhaps, but DP also was the most awesome the anime has ever been to me.

BW, yes, they have made it a lot more kiddy, perhaps to recapture the essence of the original series. Unfortunately, this has led to large inconsistencies. There is still hostility to be had, though, as TR is darker, and there is evidently some larger scheme they have going. If TP ever comes back into the picture, this could get more interesting. The pokemon themselves are back to being malicious brutes again, and now most of the conflict of the anime is centered on them instead.

It's all mostly a balance now, although if you didn't get anything out of DP, then I don't see why you would now. I hardly think things have gotten worse from the original Kanto series, but we can just agree to disagree on that matter.
 
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Well, the unaired Team Plasma episodes looked more... "mature" then previous episodes in Black and White. Not to say I think the Black and White episodes are childish.
 
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Other than Kanto showing handguns and the Mewtwo storyline, the show was never really any more dark or light than its ever been.

The show was already dumbed down when Johto rolled along as it got rid of all of Kanto's darkness. DP however did bring some darker storylines back into the series.
 
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I also see no more fluff than there always was in Pokemon. There were some rather dark things in the first saga. In fact, I may even go so far to say that the original Kanto saga was the most hostile the pokemon world has ever been, but only because Ash was at such a low point that the world seemed almost impossibly unforgiving. But it's also the most ridiculous it's ever been as well. Most of it is played for laughs. If what you're getting at is that the pokemon world is not as hostile as it was, I may agree with you in the matter that by Johto, things seemed less hostile. (I honestly don't remember Orange well enough to comment on it) The ridiculous factor also petered out, though. This continued through to the end of AG, where the most hostile the anime got was with the big villian encounters, or in the key battles of the anime (both gyms and contests). This is why most of the anime seemed bland whenever an important event wasn't going on, and why people skip the fillers a lot.

I will argue that DP was the saga that the writers somewhat got their backbone back. They made both the rival and the villians more hostile than they had ever been. True, we still have fluff going on, but it is mostly drowned out by other interesting things going on, and when they really wanted to be funny, we got some truly hilarious moments. Kiddish? Perhaps, but DP also was the most awesome the anime has ever been to me.

BW, yes, they have made it a lot more kiddy, perhaps to recapture the essence of the original series. Unfortunately, this has led to large inconsistencies. There is still hostility to be had, though, as TR is darker, and there is evidently some larger scheme they have going. If TP ever comes back into the picture, this could get more interesting. The pokemon themselves are back to being malicious brutes again, and now most of the conflict of the anime is centered on them instead.

It's all mostly a balance now, although if you didn't get anything out of DP, then I don't see why you would now. I hardly think things have gotten worse from the original Kanto series, but we can just agree to disagree on that matter.
I can agree with that. I have enjoyed the show since the beginning. The show has always made me laugh in funny moments like Barry. There were times in the movies especially the recent ones that had some funny moments despite how dark the Arceus movie was, I like them all equally so I don't let other peoples opinions keep me from enjoying the show I have and is enjoying since childhood and continue today still. Pokemon is about the only cartoon and show I watch on TV(Curse you Animal Planet for ruining your own channel that I enjoyed. Now kids would not be able to see those shows back then. Same with you Disney and Cartoonnetwork.)
 
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...I really don't see how DP and BW are any more childish than previous series. BW, okay, maybe I could accept that a little, but not DP. Team Galactic was a bit "deeper" than Team Rocket, Aqua, or Magma, and we had Paul and Hunter J. Once Team Plasma finally rolls around onto BW, I think it'll pick up as well.

As some others have said, the only way Kanto might seem less childish is if you're watching/remembering it through a nostalgia filter.
 
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Why are people applying this now? This happened during Johto a decade ago.

Did nobody notice how Johto did away with Kanto's darkness, handguns, and sense of violence? The characters stopped hitting each other, there were no guns, almost no villains, no running plots.

Everything to blame about the show being dumbed down all happened during the Johto saga. Johto was to blame for everything.
 
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