Do you think we will ever get an anime as good as Diamond and Pearl again?

[PkmnTrainerV]

yup, we got XY which is better.

XY still lacks in some departments though. The major rivals were added onto the very end of the series. DP actually did rivals better with a more significant ideological conflict. Alain’s more comparable to Tobias than an actual rival.

And for being a ‘battle oriented’ series DP still defeats it when it comes to the actual amount of times where improvised moves, move combinations, and major and consistent strategies like counter shield were created.
I also find Contests better handled than Showcases.

In the end, a ‘better series than x’ is a highly subjective question. For some fans SM might be better than XY and DP, for someone XY might be the best series of all time and so on. So I find OP’s question biased and strange in itself.

 

[ii kanji]

Every saga since DP has been divisive in some way or another.

I agree with your take on the original question, but I'm not sure BW was divisive - the fandom is generally together on where that one stands

 

[Neo Blaze]

I agree with your take on the original question, but I'm not sure BW was divisive - the fandom is generally together on where that one stands

I wanted to word it as neutral as possible. Saying the whole fandom stands together on BW isn't totally fair to say either, there's still a decent amount of people who like BW or have come to appreciate it better over the years. I'd say BW is without question the most disliked saga within the PokéAni fandom, but it isn't like say.... a Dragon Ball Evolution where you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the DB fandom who likes it.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I agree with your take on the original question, but I'm not sure BW was divisive - the fandom is generally together on where that one stands

You might be surprised. There is many BW fans in Serebii forums.

I'd say BW is without question the most disliked saga within the PokéAni fandom

I think that's no longer the case, at least from my point of view.

 

[ii kanji]

You might be surprised. There is many BW fans in Serebii forums.

That says everything you need to know!

 

[Hidden Mew]

yup, we got XY which is better.

I still don't agree that XY is better than DP. I can understand why some people would feel that way in a few areas, but XY just has too many flaws for me. DP isn't perfect, but I think it's a much more solid series overall compared to XY. It would probably be my second or third favorite series. Some aspects of AG really haven't aged well, mainly May's Contests and especially the whole Battle Frontier arc, so I sometimes wonder if I would still have it as my second favorite series.

I wanted to word it as neutral as possible. Saying the whole fandom stands together on BW isn't totally fair to say either, there's still a decent amount of people who like BW or have come to appreciate it better over the years. I'd say BW is without question the most disliked saga within the PokéAni fandom, but it isn't like say.... a Dragon Ball Evolution where you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the DB fandom who likes it.

That's certainly true. BW was widely disliked here, but there were still people who enjoyed the series. Even now, some people have gone back to rewatch BW and have different opinions on it. It's still my least favorite series, but I enjoyed binge watching it a lot more than I expected to, so I can understand why other people would like it more than I do.

I think that's no longer the case, at least from my point of view.

I don't think that SM has gotten the same kind of dislike compared to BW. The response to BW was overwhelming negativity right from the start. There are people who hated SM once it was first announced, but I don't think it has been that intense and it isn't nearly as rare to see people say that they like SM compared to BW during its run. The negativity towards SM might have increased recently due to the Alola League setup we have and people being eager/anxious for the SW/SH anime, but I'll still find plenty of people who do like SM here and on other sites.

 

[Neo Blaze]

I think that's no longer the case, at least from my point of view.

Perhaps it feels that way since SM is currently ongoing, but from my point of view the hate for SM is nowhere near as strong as the hate for BW. Back in the BW days, there was hardly anyone who seemed to genuinely enjoy it on this forum, or this section (although admittedly, the forum atmosphere was so toxic those days that it was hard for anyone to admit they liked it).That's not the case with SM. See any review thread or SM-related thread and you will still see a lot of people who enjoy the SM series. Same on other PokéAni sites.

That said, let's get back to the actual topic

 

[Yami-no-Game]

No, especially not as far as rivalries are concerned. Even Ash's friendly rivalry with Alain in XY couldn't top Ash's rivalry with Paul in DP, mainly because it felt like there was more tension and much more at stake when Paul was involved.

 

[KrspaceT]

While I personally don't hold DP as highly as others, I will say that it is possible to have a rival that works with Ash as well as Paul one day, though trying to copy Paul exactly will not work. You'd have to foil Ash some other way.

For example someone who is just as close to his Pokemon as Ash, but doesn't believe in friendship with humans. Basically someone whose argument is that 'You do better when you aren't being held back by accommodating other people', which is something Ash has arguably suffered from in the past (for example, going off for Serena's showcases arguably allowed Sawyer to catch up with Ash in XY, and I am sure I could find examples with May and Dawn's contests with some research.)

That's the best example that doesn't rely on meta commentary, like a guy who traveled around with the same Pokemon versus Ash's rotating team roster.

 

[Silktree]

for example, going off for Serena's showcases arguably allowed Sawyer to catch up with Ash in XY,

Did that really happen? They were just a few events that couldn't have taken up much time, and I don't think that they required detours.

They could have a new rival make fun of Ash for going to school in Alola, lol.

 

[KrspaceT]

Did that really happen? They were just a few events that couldn't have taken up much time, and I don't think that they required detours.

My memory

Serena: Oh my next showcase is a bit out of the way of the way. If we go there, it will take longer to get to your final Gym Battle.

Ash: No problem, let's go!

 

[Silktree]

I guess that the last Showcase and Master Class might have slowed Ash down on the way to the last gym, but his training is far more important and is independent of his location.

 

[Hidden Mew]

My memory

Serena: Oh my next showcase is a bit out of the way of the way. If we go there, it will take longer to get to your final Gym Battle.

Ash: No problem, let's go!

That was Ash's reaction when Serena found out how far away the Master Class location was, but I don't really see how that had a negative impact on Ash. It didn't contribute to his defeat at the Snowbelle Gym or put him at a significant disadvantage. Losing to Sawyer was a much bigger factor as to why Ash struggled to get that last badge. Besides that, Ash would have come off as a jerk if he demanded to go for his last Gym badge before Serena's Master Class Showcase. The Master Class Showcase was only available for a limited amount of time, while he had a lot more time to get his last badge by comparison.

 

[Daenerys]

For example someone who is just as close to his Pokemon as Ash, but doesn't believe in friendship with humans. Basically someone whose argument is that 'You do better when you aren't being held back by accommodating other people', which is something Ash has arguably suffered from in the past (for example, going off for Serena's showcases arguably allowed Sawyer to catch up with Ash in XY, and I am sure I could find examples with May and Dawn's contests with some research.)

>blaming Serena for Sawyer catching up to Ash

I dunno, maybe I misunderstood your point, but it seems like you're implying that: a) Serena's goal interfered with Ash's progress in a negative way, and b) that Sawyer only got stronger because Ash took a detour for Serena's sake. Forgetting of course that nothing was stopping Ash from training during the journey to Serena's Showcases, and also ignoring the fact that no matter what Ash was doing, Sawyer was always gonna get stronger and collect the remaining Kalos badges because the plot required it. Also, that point you made about May's and Dawn's Contests kinda triggers me, because it sounds like you're saying that they were bad friends for making Ash take detours to their events. Ash spent a portion of some of their Contests training on his own and not even sitting in the audience to support his coordinator friends back then, so if anything he's the worse friend in this situation.

 

[Hidden Mew]

There were a good chuck of May's Contests where Ash was busy training his own Pokemon. I remember he did that with getting Swellow to learn Aerial Ace and even spent a good amount of time during the Hoenn Grand Festival trying to get Snorunt to learn Ice Beam. It seems less like Ash wasn't a good friend and more like the writers were kind of unsure about having him on the sidelines for too long if that makes any sense. I think Ash arguing with May about going to his Gym battle before her second Contest made him look pretty bad and selfish though. That only happened a couple of times and tied in a bit with how overly eager he could be with getting to his next Gym battle in AG, but it did make him look a bit too selfish when he adamantly declared that his Gym battle comes first despite how May would have missed her Contest if they had gone in that direction.

I'm pretty sure Ash was in the audience during all of Dawn's Contests though. Ash did a lot of training during DP, but I don't think during Dawn's Contests. Contests were arguably were much more important in DP than they were in AG, or at least given the same amount of attention as Gym battles did. The idea that going on detours for Dawn's goal had a negative impact on Ash's skills is especially strange to me. Both Ash and Dawn were inspired by each other throughout DP. They learn different strategies and battle styles by watching their battles. That was the case with the Counter Shield and Ice Armor. I don't think that May had a negative impact on Ash's journey or skills either, but it's kind of strange to make that claim about Dawn when traveling together helped to make both of them stronger than they would have been had they traveled on their own or with different characters.

 

[Galactic_V]

For me both DP and XY had really strong points and some weak points. I prefer XY because of a few stuff (good openings, Satoshi having a fully evolved team and making it to the finals in the league, Flare's showdown post-league, and I prefer Serena over Hikari for some reason).

Reading through comments I've seen that BW used to be really unpopular here back in the day, and I happen to like it a lot. Actually the only season I couldn't bring myself to enjoy, at all, is SM.

 

[Parissong]

Oh yeah, I think Paul being extremely abusive and not going to lie, pretty much an asshole, was a big buzzkill. Did it create tension and rivalry? Yes, but come on, did it have to be like that?

I'm a Gen IV stan too but Paul pls

 

[Johtohfiller]

I think they'd need to go with the official co-star approach again to make another series as good as DP.

A 4-year generation would help too - which I'd argue would also be beneficial for the games.

 

[Cresselia92]

Well, while the whole thing about DP being the best series is very subjective, I think it would be a good idea to consider its strong points to see what we could expect from a rivaling series.

Consistent pacing - This is something that BW managed to achieve to an extent, but the pacing had become much of a problem during the latest two sagas, XY(&Z) and SM. So, I think that the next series should aim to actually work better on the various events if it wants to become a stronger series with better storytelling.

Character development - All series post-DP suffered from a lack or mishandled character development, in a way or another. Iris had a very spotty development with the plots about her involving convenient circumstances and newly discovered talents, Cilan's character remained virtually unchanged throughout the whole series, Serena took way too long to find her goal, Clemont got something in the beginning and was left in the dust toward the end, Bonnie got some development but could have gotten more, and the SM gang suffers from either "too little, too late" or "something at the beginning, nothing at the end" due to being waaay too big. And this is without considering the rivals and other important characters.

The next series should better aim to have a more limited cast, but give some proper development to all characters. Ideally, there shouldn't be more "Cilans". "Clemonts" and "Sophocles" in term of development, but we can hope that the next in the series will be handled a bit better than the other boys.

Tangible goals for all characters - Another element that helps root for your characters is seeing them progress into some kind of goal, and see the results of said progress (preferably on-screen). In BW, we got Iris and her Dragon Master goal and Cilan with his Connoisseur objective, but both goals have been good ideas on paper but bad in execution, as we don't have a clear idea of what being a "Dragon Master" entail and Cilan's goal was left aside to focus on his "It's (insert thing) time!" running gag. For Serena and Clemont, Serena got her goal way too late and Showcases are often considered a downgrade toward Contests, while Clemon aimed to be... more confident or something, and like Cilan had his character centered around his running gag. The SM cast has some issues with their goals as well, as either they can't be fully judged or they get very little focus.

As such, I hope that the next characters will have some interesting goals that allow us to see how they came from Point A to Point B, rather than have their dreams as a simple barebones afterthought.

Stunning battle strategies that carry on - Now, I'm not saying that BW, XY and SM don't have interesting strategies, but they usually end up being one-time gimmicks or not as impressive as the techniques used during the DP saga. It would be good if the next series got some good choreographies that brought some awe from the audience. Hopefully, they'll do something creative with the Dynamax without making the matches look like simple "attack, attack, attack" fights.

Rivals that push the cast to their limits - Another thing that had been quite lacking in BW, XY and SM is this detail. In BW, both Cilan and Iris dominated all matches against their rivals and Ash got a newbie rival as a rival who could somehow be superior to him, while in XY the rivals suffered from either being beaten most of the times (Shauna and Miette), appeared very rarely to have an impact (Tierno and Trevor) or were introduced very late in the main series (Sawyer and Alain). Similarly, SM suffers from cases of rivals appearing rarely or getting a role too late. For this reason, I hope that the rivals in Sword/Shield (if there will be any) will be introduced earlier and really made the main cast sweat for their victories. It would make it more satisfying to watch their final showdown that way.

These are the points that come to my mind in order to have a saga that can "rival" DP, in my opinion. If it tackled all those elements, it would surely have the potential to be one of the best series to date. It's up to the anime staff to work on that and deliver a satisfying and entertaining product.