Does Anyone Feel Something Is Missing After DP?

[Cinderfella]

Hello Everyone,

It's been awhile since I've posted on here. I've been having an inclination to go back to my Pokemon roots and make sure that I'm up to date with everything. After getting up to date, I couldn't help but find myself wondering what on Earth has left since DP ended?

I am very much aware that every season after DP couldn't be exactly like DP-as seen with Best Wishes obviously-but even with XY I feel as if the anime has become a bit dry. It's not secret that up until DP, there seemed to be a progression in Ash, his female companion, and the storyline. Heck, even with Team Rocket.

I don't know what in the world happened since, but even in XY, the magic seems to be lingering or not there. The gyms aren't exciting anymore, and I do believe the lack of contests really do play a factor in that. I didn't make this thread to necessarily bash or rant about the current anime, because there are many pro's. Bonnie is adorable and Clemont is super cool.

Serena is sweet, however, her goal quest and this Tri-Pokethlon, I'm a little weary about. And while Ash is a bit better than he was in BW, he still feels a little bit...just there at times.

I don't know if it's because the anime has been around for so long, or the amount of pokemon has become larger and to be fair a bit more complicated in understanding since the Original Series. Also, Ash's friends have become larger, while prior to Dawn and Brock it was only Misty, May, Max, and Tracey.

It just seems like until DP, things weren't so complicated, yet they were exciting and progressing. While in XY I feel like we are progressing only-but progressing slow with Gym Leaders who could use some more umph and background that desperately should be added to a lot of people. I still feel no build up for the League, and it may be too early to call, however, given Ash's history, I don't see why not?

I will say that Serena's journey on top of Ash not having a main rival like Paul play a huge hand in this. AG handled a no rival for Ash fine, but with May's rivals and Ash's new Hoenn team I don't think that mattered to much.

For some reason, XY just makes me realize that there is so much that matters now but isn't really being thought about. I was just wondering if anyone felt the same.

 

[R!ck]

I felt that way during the horrible BW years but I feel like XY is re-capturing that spirit from OS to DP, still I understand you, I like the XY anime but I'm not enjoying the same way like when I was watching OS, AG and DP, there is something definitely missing but I don't know how to say it or maybe me getting old idk lol.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think that getting rid of Contests was a heavy blow to the anime. It was understandable why they weren't used after DP since they aren't in the current games and it wouldn't make sense marketing wise to promote an older feature that isn't in the games. The sad part is that they've never been able to find something to make up for that loss. Contests were a part of the anime for two whole series, they were given even more attention in DP and they were another battle competition that added some variety so it wasn't just about Ash's Gym battles. I think that could be one thing that feels missing in the other series.

The lack of a clear sense of progress with Ash might be another thing. Up until BW, it did feel like Ash was improving steadily with each League. Starting with BW, it felt like that sense of progression was lost. He's a much better trainer in XY, so there is progression in that regard, but it might not be enough, especially when he doesn't have any rivals to deal with. That worked out fine in AG, but it might have helped that it was the first time Ash had started off with a fresh new team back then.

I am enjoying XY and despite being my least favorite series, there were enjoyable aspects to BW as well, so I still enjoy watching the anime. I think I just miss seeing Contests in the anime a lot, especially after I finished watching DP again.

 

[Beth Pavell]

It's got a lot simpler, certainly. It's no secret that I prefer it that way - in short, I thought DP was raucous and melodramatic - but yeah, without Contests or even the tournament arcs BW had, the pacing has slowed down. Having no rival sort of adds to this, though Ash didn't really have a rival in AG and that didn't have the same kind of gentle pace (But then May made for a more proactive travel companion than Serena. She really was a second protagonist)

 

[DracoMan]

I'm kinda thinking about the little things. Like dialogue. It just feels flat lately. Especially since the snark factor is all but gone. I loved seeing it with Ash and Misty in particular. They tried to recapture it with Iris, but it never got past her repeatedly calling Ash a kid. Bonnie seems to be trying to bring it back, but it's just too much for one little girl to do on her own.

 

[Cuddy]

I kinda regret saying this much, because I think he was losing it at the end, but Brock is missed traveling with the others. Brock might not been doing much, but he was someone that does have a side that neither Cilan or Clemont have.

 

[BlackButterfree]

I agree. It feels off. Even the important storyline episodes all feel like filler. They're good, and entertaining, but they all feel like filler. I don't know how to explain it better.

 

[Odinn]

The missing thing is progress. Until the end of DP, at least we were getting the feel we were headed somewhere. Right now, complete nothing. Just a visual promotion for the games.

 

[JacobYBM]

Diamond & Pearl did give us genuine conflict, which has been sorely lacking. Satoshi gets along too easily with those outside and perhaps even inside of the group. The world-building and sense of legacy developed in Diamond & Pearl has also failed to go very far. Learning more about the Champion League or the rankings of trainers on a national, continental, and global scale would be nice. In seventeen years a Satoshi series has never once had Satoshi meet a trainer with credit as a nationally or globally ranked trainer. Shirona, Adeku, and Carne are all regional champions who have won their respective League and Champion League, but we have yet to see who is above them, like the national champion of whichever nation Kantou, Jouto, Hou'en, and Shin'ou belong to. I assume it's 'Japan', but the franchise has become so afraid of being Japanese it is hard to say. Heck, who is the World Champion, the undisputed champion amongst champions? Best Wishes had a Junior Cup that would have been a perfect time to begin exploring that sort of issue. This is something GameFreak should get on trying to define for the video games, at least.

 

[Iteru]

The way I see it for the majority of viewers:

"This saga is really good!"
"This saga is nearly as good!"
"That's not how I'd have done it..."
"What are they doing?"
"This is crap!"
"I guess its viewable."
"I like it."

It is easy to get bored of the show and once you've watched it for ages you'll see the flaws of it more easily and they become hard to ignore. Then, eventually, you suck it up and take the show for what it is. At least that's what I've noticed in my years here about anime viewers.

 

[Aura7541]

I've been enjoying XY so far, but I do agree that it's lacking that magic DP (and my co-favorite Battle Frontier) had. As Hidden Mew said, contests were a huge part to the anime. In DP, they were significant to the point that much of Ash's battle strategies revolved around contest techniques (e.g. Ambipom's appeal -> Countershield, Dawn's spin move, ice aqua jet). Also, the contests allowed May and Dawn to co-star with Ash rather than being overshadowed by his gym battles. However, in XY, Ash has been the only focal point of this arc. Serena will get more attention if she's going to pursue the Kalos Queen title, but it's not the same. There won't be any battles in Tri-Pokethlons and while battles aren't everything, contest battles helped Ash grow.

Speaking of growth, BW terribly lacked in this department. From OS to DP, we have seen Ash constantly improving. However, that growth went to a very, very sharp halt. It was to the point that I could no longer recognize Ash as Ash. The outside-of-the-box, improvisational strategies that made Ash's battle style distinct were lacking in BW. Instead, he kept being reckless and relied too much on luck. His battling is much improved in XY. Some of Ash's top improvisations were nullifying sleep powder with a self-inflicted electro ball and rock tomb climb. He is still not as good as he was in DP because at times, Ash still acts recklessly.

Probably the biggest difference between DP and XY, in my opinion, is character development. Not only did Ash get a lot of focus, but Dawn and Team Rocket, as well. Dawn had quite a journey from beginner to runner-up in the Sinnoh Grand Festival. Team Rocket had its moments, too, like Jessie releasing Dustox and James trying to teach Cacnea drain punch, but eventually leaving it in Gardenia's care. BW suffered from very stunted character development. Too many times did Iris get free passes such as Axew learning outrage and giga impact, and Dragonite freelancing in the Junior Cup. In addition, Burgundy and Georgia's development were never resolved. Character development in XY is significantly better, but still not up to DP's standards. Bonnie, for example, has had really good development. Clement had his moments, too, like retaking his gym from Clembot or overcoming Chespin's gluttony in his battle against Delphox. However, Serena's development has been anemic outside of the Rhyhorn racing episode. Team Rocket has been very bland.

 

[Necrozma]

Um yes.

What XY is missing:

- Conflict! Not just between main characters themselves but rivals too.
- Proper rivals and more supporting characters
- Actual villains like Team Flare.
- A sidequest like Contests or Tripokalons.
- Some relevance for Team Rocket that will make them, well, relevant.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Well Sinnoh wasnt my favorite series by any margin. Admittedly DP was very good in terms of plot and development, but still i hold to view how OS and AG had better character interactions, more enjoyable main females and more exciting sense of adventure and mature elements put into it.

However i also cannot deny that Sinnoh brought certain elements in story and still maintaned charm which started to gradually disperse and decrease ever since DP era ended and pokemon anime stepped in BW and now XY run.

For once lack of proper rivals for Ash is really showing. Because they are usually main generator of conflict, clash of ideology and motivation which is capable of bringing some of best qualities from Ash character, but also lift up atmosphere around everyone else too adding for more compelling and filled with spice interactions.Like it was case with Gary, especially Paul bringing panic and disorder for Ash realizing how he has serious, competent and organized obstacle on his road hindering his dreams of achieving master title himself.

It serves as inspiration for Ash to reveal more to his personality, extort bigger diapason of emotions , insecurity, rough hotheaded and even cynical side of his which most traveling companions arent capable of providing. Or if they do not in same groundbreaking way to the point of shaking up core of Ash character.

Something presence of Paul did staggering Ash views about pokemon training and forcing him to change his strategy becoming more innovative. Which especially now in Kalos would be of crucial importance going in line with Ash determination to win league realizing he needs to train and work harder than ever before to stand chance. But here we are 50 episodes in and there are no signs of rival showing up making storyline more bare imo.

Yeah sure BW had Trip and Cameron but they were more jokes, ratgher than substantial adversaries which contain depth to their motives and ideology not making Ash change his ways and learn anything new that he already didnt had at that point.

Another aspect which was one of stronger points about Sinnoh was bigger sense of world building, more connections to past and stronger continuity. We got insight in Ash past through characters like Gary, Chimchar rage issues drawing paralel with Charmander or Pikachu refusing to evolve.

Writers didnt hesitate in bringting various past characters like Gary, James undestined fiancee Jessibelle, Butch and Cassidy,Jasmine, May, homage to AG rivals like Drew and Harley etc. Even reappearance of Tracey(well not in DP but still it was right up to start of DP) and less important characters like Magikarp salesman.

Ok maybe not all, Misty was ignored and forgotten in DP too never making in flesh return and follow up on her dreams,character followed by future sagas(even when World Cup came which ended as travesty in Unova).

But still you can tell how while not ideal and putting my personal peeves aside, DP tried to establish closer connection to past sagas and characters, situations and events which left impact on Ash character and amount of development, struggles and experience he builded prior to starting his adventure in DP. Making story more fluent and believable with Ash not feeling like in every saga he is reset forgotting everything.

But in retaining and utilizing his knowledge in DP, maturing even further as person to more sophisticated degree and giving out impression of seasoned veteran who is ready to go on next, more higher levels of personality growth and build of his trainer skills. When you witness character coming top 4 almost winning Sinnoh league you can tell that he came long way as trainer and individual since his roots. Just to see knowledge and maturity be flushed down into toilet during BW and somewhat fixed now in XY. But still not to same height it was present in DP saga.

I wont say how drop of contests after DP made pokemon anime worse, because OS had no contests either and i really liked this series with female not needing to be coordinator to be active, useful. Although more tournaments in Johto to advance character goals and reduce on fillers was in least hand required. It happened in 5th season but it was not enoug.

Not to mention i likie variety and different ways to see girl companions trive, work on overcoming flaws and struggles bringing with their carers new direction in which we can see someone grow. Develop battle style and come closer toward achievemernt of dreams, liking that myself. Because not every person is cut out to be coordinator with some being by nature trainers and seeking for different ways to be competitive.

However ill say how drop of contests definitely made pokemon anime different and in terms of pacing and storytelling forced writers to find alternatives to fill up void between each gym. Unova made bold and good approach by introducing Don George battle clubs wehere each character and rivals, instead of just Ash could compete and learn something from it.

Iris story of becoming dragon master admittedly had unique feel to it, drawing connections to nature and instincts as catalyst through which through understanding of pokemon feelings and developing close bond someone would draw. Rather than training and battling. Which with half success, half failure enriched on BW plots.

But problem in there was that not many characters grew in emotional aspect through that. Not to mention rushed and forced wins which came out of it or questionable power up of pokeno strength and attacks which came out of nowhere(like Axew outrage, catching powerful pokemon with no build up to it)i imagine decreased overall appeal of such plots.

I have yet to see if anything out of Tripokalons will come out and whole pokemon performer thing. But there is no denying how pacing and slowness at which things are moving forward in XY even compared to BW is in every way worse and less satisfying than how things went in DP.

Which how to say hads much stronger planning and constructon of plots. Conflicts and obstacles implanted in character stories and main narrative. More consistent pace and character development, accompanied with better fleshed out dreams, personalities and ideas brought in Sinnoh series compared to BW and XY.

Containing more mature and complex storylines. Especially with presence of Hunter J , insane leader of Team Galactic which had no scrupul and moral values. Depression streak Dawn went through and packed with lot of sadness, emotion and memorability episodes(like Jessie and James leaving pokemon behind through hertwarming scenes with Dustox and Cacnea, Ash falling in despondence after harsh lose vs Paul , Paul turmoils of not wanting to end as failure like his brother Reggie when battling Brandon etc).

Not compared to all series finding how under mr. Shudo batton and in AG there was arguably present more emotion and depth to certain stories and incidents. But compared to Unova snd Kalos, Sinnoh felt still like series aimed not just solely for kids and kindergarten toddlers, but also to more grown up audience which have more profined taste offering certain darker and more elevated, substantial direction under which characters and plots are build up.

Which is for now sadly missing from pokemon taking away from its integrity and appeal imo.

I kinda regret saying this much, because I think he was losing it at the end, but Brock is missed traveling with the others. Brock might not been doing much, but he was someone that does have a side that neither Cilan or Clemont have.

I know what you mean. To me Brock brought stability, comfort and sense of security in main cast, lot of extravagant but quality comedy and supporting parental type of role. That role maybe wasnt big , but it served purpose on keeping group and everything on hold even at his lower point during DP series. I miss him in anime feeling its not as substantial without him around.

Than again i also feel ever since Misty left none of succesors brought same level of emotion, sarcastic quips and flaming passion like she did. Missing her and unique interests she had as well. Though that could be just me.

 

[PockyAddict]

Um yes.

What XY is missing:

- Conflict! Not just between main characters themselves but rivals too.
- Proper rivals and more supporting characters
- Actual villains like Team Flare.
- A sidequest like Contests or Tripokalons.
- Some relevance for Team Rocket that will make them, well, relevant.

wait, team flare has'nt debuted yet in the main anime? I did'nt know that, usually villain teams debut earlier than that. (I know about the cancelled team plasma 2 parter in which team plasma would have debut around the 24/25 episodes.)

But Yeah I pretty much agree with you on everything.

 

[Necrozma]

wait, team flare has'nt debuted yet in the main anime? I did'nt know that, usually villain teams debut earlier than that. (I know about the cancelled team plasma 2 parter in which team plasma would have debut around the 24/25 episodes.)

Nope, they didn't debut yet. Lysandre however was teased at the end of Act I and will be actually appearing in Act II of the Mega Evolution special.

 

[MizuTaipu]

I think this "missing feeling" is mainly due to Best Wishes! severing all ties of continuity with the previous series and its general reset carried over into XY. That and XY doesn't really have much tension and conflict to it like others said.

 

[Life]

To make a list:

> Actual conflict that is not a rehash of that stupid flower scenario
> Diverse rivals
> Depth
> Great battles
> Side stories
> Goals for the companions
> Progression with characters
> Something to make Team Rocket look like they have a reason for being in the show aside from being comic relief
> And some more team development would be nice

That's all I can think of.

 

[Necrozma]

I think this "missing feeling" is mainly due to Best Wishes! severing all ties of continuity with the previous series and its general reset carried over into XY. That and XY doesn't really have much tension and conflict to it like others said.

I will never understand how people blame Best Wishes for everything especially since Best Wishes season 2 pretty much was ALL about continuity. Return of Charizard? Return of Dawn? Ash remembering his Butterfree? Return of Cynthia?

And there is no reset in XY either.

There was never no reset.

 

[R!ck]

Because Best Wishes messed up the feel of progression from OS to DP? that's clear, XY is trying to solve the great damage caused by BW to the Pokémon anime series but it's still lacking. XY has been a decent series so far tho, way better than its predecessor.

 

[Necrozma]

Because Best Wishes messed up the feel of progression from OS to DP? that's clear, XY is trying to solve the great damage caused by BW to the Pokémon anime series but it's still lacking. XY has been a decent series so far tho, way better than its predecessor.

Ash's progression? Sure, BW did that poorly.

The user I quoted though claims Best Wishes severed all ties with previous series which not at all true.