• Another scrumptious episode of Bulbacast has been uploaded to YouTube. Watch it here. I hope you don't feel desserted after watching this one.
  • Grookey, Scorbunny or Sobble, which one do you love most? Want to show your support with a cool banner, check out the info here!

Does It Bother Anyone Else?

Patrick Haines

Lone Scribe for the Lord of Time
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
200
Reaction score
89
In Gen 1 (and subsequent generations), Lance is advertised as a Dragon-type trainer and Agatha as a Ghost-type trainer, yet all of their Pokémon have a single type in common that is NOT what is advertised. For all intents and purposes, Agatha is a Poison-type trainer (Gengar x2, Haunter, Arbok, Golbat). This barely changes at all in Gen 3 when she replaces Haunter with Misdreavus on the second challenge and is partially reinforced by the addition of Weezing in LGPE, even if she is given A-Marowak.

Lance is a little different, as (in Gens 1/3) his team has 3 Dragon and 3 Flying-types, but the fact that Dragonair are not fully evolved is shocking. In Gen 2/4, he is completely a Flying-type trainer (Dragonite x3, Aerodactly, Charizard, Gyarados). His teams on the second play-through are far more Dragon (the addition of Kingdra in GSC and 4/6 Dragons on the second playthrough [though 5/6 are still Flying]). He returns to an all Flying-type team (sans the ridiculous addition of Seadra who can not evolve in the game) in LGPE, with AGAIN, 3 Dragon and 3 Flying-types on the second challenge.

I know the games have limitations (only 1 Ghost and Dragon for Gen 1, the exclusion of the other generations from LGPE), but it still bothers me that they advertise the two of them of Ghost and Dragon trainers when they clearly are not. Agatha is an Elite Four trainer, so they could have given her Bug or Normal (both missing from Gyms/Elite Four in Gen 1) OR replaced Arbok and Golbat with Pokémon who were not Poison-type (Psychics like Hypno seem to fit the bill well). I like the idea that the old lady is Ghost-type, but they could have done better. In fact, both Lorelei (Slowbro) and Bruno (Onix) have Pokémon who are not their set type, so it would have totally worked. Lance, on the other hand, could have been pegged as 'The Champion,' just like the Champions starting with Cynthia, who didn't have a specialization. In that way, he could have used a couple of Dragonite and whatever other Pokémon he wanted without problem, instead of specializing in Flying-type Pokémon.

Does this bother anyone else? Anyone else thought of it? Am I completely nuts?
 

Silktree

Unown Seer
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
17,505
Reaction score
10,733
Why can't trainers have an expertise in two types? I would have preferred Ninetales for Agatha over Haunter/Weezing, though.

Ghost was apparently added very late into Red and Green's development, with Gengar originally being Koga's signature Pokemon. As for Dragon, both Crocky and Scyther's prototype might have been Dragon types. It's too bad they were removed.
 

Dieter

Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
925
Reaction score
594
Hardly, as their 'other' pokemon still fit their aesthetic. And it's not a problem restricted to the Kanto E4 either. Consider Karen, Phoebe, Glacia, and Flint. They either have limited pokemon of their type, or feature the same species twice. And that's ignoring the E4 members who only have one pokemon not of their type in their teams. Only Will, Sidney, Aaron, and Lucian have a team consisting of 5 members, without any repetition, and all of their specialisation when they are first introduced.

It's only from Gen 5 on that all members of the E4 actually exclusively feature pokemon of their typing, but their part is reduced from 5 to 4, in Gen 6 even permanently so. and I think adding something in a party of 5 that's not the 'correct' typing, but thematically fitting nonetheless can actually create an extra challenge.

Also, early on Dragon and Flying kinda went hand-in-hand, so I figure that's why he has 2 Dragonair, as his Dragonite and Aerodactyl both have a 4x weakness to Ice, an d only his Gyarados has no weakness to Ice.

I think the only reason later generations don't have this problem is because the Dex became far more expansive.

And it's not an issue limited to E4 members only, Candice and Volkner also have this issue when they're first introduced (possibly others, but these to came to mind right away). That said, in their case Medicham and Octillery actually help them counter their weakness, which I think makes the challenge more interesting
 

Nicolas721

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
2,643
Reaction score
1,919
In one hand, it can be beneficial to your playthrough, as it can give one of your Pokemon a chance to shine in a battle where otherwise they would never have been used, like using Shiftry against Flint's Drifblim. But in the other hand, it shows a clear lack of planning on the developers' part. The best solution is something like Lance's Seadra, which isn't Dragon-type but makes sense thematically, and doesn't feel like insulting his reputation.
 

Count Scarlioni

F Pokémon GO, M Mystery Dungeon, K the core series
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
5,143
Reaction score
12,749
Agatha does feel slightly awkward, although I think her Alolan Marowak in LGPE helps. Unown Seer is absolutely right that she should have got a Ninetales instead of a Weezing, though.

Of course, it was kinda cool back then because it made it seem like after going through all of the Gyms, which specialized in one type each, you now had to face the logical progression of "ultimate" Trainers who were themselves sort of dual-type specialists. Lorelei was Water and Ice, Bruno was Fighting and Rock, Agatha was Ghost and Poison, and then Lance was Dragon and Flying.
 

Boruto

Yᵒᵘ Oᶰˡʸ Lᶤᵛᵉ Oᴺcᴱ
Joined
Jun 24, 2017
Messages
680
Reaction score
1,291
I always considered Agatha to be a Ghost-type specialist. The fact that she had five Poison-types in Gen 1 is kind of irrelevant to me; Haunter and Gengar are half Poison-type by default, and as for Golbat and Arbok, I figure that Game Freak added them to her team because there weren't that many other options given the lack of other Ghost-types in Gen 1 (minus Gastly who ain't even a challenge compared to its evolved forms), and Golbat and Arbok at least seemed sinister enough to fit Agatha's team.
 

TechSkylander1518

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
2,517
Reaction score
7,080
I don't understand what you mean by saying you "consider" Agatha to be Ghost-type despite her Poison-types -she canonically is a Ghost-type specialist.
 

Akira Bond

Wuntch time is over!
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
1,133
It never really bothered me back then, as there were times when they didn't really have a choice. I would like to see going fourth though, an updated team for both of them consisting of Pokémon of their specialty. Now that we have plenty of Dragon and Ghost type Pokémon, they could easily re work their teams once again and give them a new 'official' team.
 
Top