Does Journeys Still Replace The Music A Lot? And on another note, is the new dialogue more accurate?

[Starze]

Please keep this spoiler-free / use and label spoiler tags as I am only 207 episodes in my current watch of Pokemon (Stopped during MQ many many years ago, started up again in March)
My plan is to watch the sub mainly and skim/put the dub on while I work to support the official release and enjoy the quirky Team Rocket dialogue. The biggest reasons for me wanting to watch the sub is because I like the original dialogue and pacing, as well as hearing Rika Matsumoto as Satoshi, and I enjoy all the other VAs as well (Shinichiro Miki is a legend), I am also aware that especially after the 4kids era the music is generally a lot better in the original Japanese version. So my question is,

Is the dialogue-less divergent compared to earlier seasons (and movies, because damn are the lines different between languages), and is the music replacement still a huge issue?

Again, please keep this spoiler-free or use spoiler tags.

 

[Dogasu]

Music replacement is still a huge issue, unfortunately. These days we're lucky if we get three pieces of Japanese music in any given episode of the English dub.

The dialogue is more accurate these days than it was back when 4Kids was running the show but there are still issues; the way TPCi writes Team Rocket is still atrocious, a lot of the dialogue feels very stilted / unnatural, there are still some rewrites, etc.

 

[Starze]

Music replacement is still a huge issue, unfortunately. These days we're lucky if we get three pieces of Japanese music in any given episode of the English dub.

The dialogue is more accurate these days than it was back when 4Kids was running the show but there are still issues; the way TPCi writes Team Rocket is still atrocious, a lot of the dialogue feels very stilted / unnatural, there are still some rewrites, etc.

Would you say that Team Rocket's dialogue is more accurately translated compared to before? Has it improved at all?

 

[MizuTaipu]

I'd say relatively the same as before. James Carter Cathcart is still the ADR scriptwriter and the voice of both James and Meowth so that gives him carte blanche to have the trio say what he thinks is funny since he thinks their Japanese dialogue isn't funny at all or something. He adapts all the other characters relatively accurately, just not the Rockets.

 

[PaperSplash]

I don't think dub Team Rocket has changed nearly as much as people would want them to be from a purism standpoint, but I definitely wouldn't say they haven't changed at all.

Back in Battle Frontier and early DP, the dub script for Team Rocket was as rewrite-happy as the 4Kids days if not more, with it not being uncommon for entire conversations to barely resemble the original script. There was also noticeably a lot more fourth wall breaking and self-referential humor added to the dub back then than there is now.

Somewhere partway through DP, the dub started keeping at least the general gist of Team Rocket's conversations the same, but it was almost always "punched up" in some gimmicky way (rhymes, alliteration, wordplay and insults being by far the most common). There were also still the occasional lines that were completely rewritten for seemingly no reason other than the dub script writer finding their version more funny, I suppose.

By SM or so, the trio were finally allowed to have some moments where they talk completely normally without any sort of gimmick, although there are still plenty of moments where they go back to their old rhyming shtick and a decent handful of random rewrites. Still, I'd actually say it's quite a bit more faithful than it used to be.

 

[Starze]

I don't think dub Team Rocket has changed nearly as much as people would want them to be from a purism standpoint, but I definitely wouldn't say they haven't changed at all.

Back in Battle Frontier and early DP, the dub script for Team Rocket was as rewrite-happy as the 4Kids days if not more, with it not being uncommon for entire conversations to barely resemble the original script. There was also noticeably a lot more fourth wall breaking and self-referential humor added to the dub back then than there is now.

Somewhere partway through DP, the dub started keeping at least the general gist of Team Rocket's conversations the same, but it was almost always "punched up" in some gimmicky way (rhymes, alliteration, wordplay and insults being by far the most common). There were also still the occasional lines that were completely rewritten for seemingly no reason other than the dub script writer finding their version more funny, I suppose.

By SM or so, the trio were finally allowed to have some moments where they talk completely normally without any sort of gimmick, although there are still plenty of moments where they go back to their old rhyming shtick and a decent handful of random rewrites. Still, I'd actually say it's quite a bit more faithful than it used to be.

That's very good to hear. That's totally something I love about the sub. While the dub's quirky dialogue is great, and Team Rocket's conversations always contained some wordplay that is nostalgic and entertaining, I have a soft spot for the extremely genuine lines and reactions to things they have in the sub. Move 3 had a lot of those examples. Thanks for the detailed insight!

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Music replacement is still a huge issue, unfortunately. These days we're lucky if we get three pieces of Japanese music in any given episode of the English dub.

The dialogue is more accurate these days than it was back when 4Kids was running the show but there are still issues; the way TPCi writes Team Rocket is still atrocious, a lot of the dialogue feels very stilted / unnatural, there are still some rewrites, etc.

Agree on the music handling all around, TPCi is below 4Kids' worst levels from XY onward in particular on music replacement in the main Anime (you would be shocked what's happened lately, Dogasu, the only good thing I can say about this is now 4Kids' later tenure with the OST in the Anime dub has been redeemed somewhat in this aspect-- not Movies and Pikachu Shorts as they were a LOT better there vs. the first 3 films, not sure what was up with this dynamic shift in their dub-- but I think they must've made a licensing agreement to do so and I'm very happy about that because that really kept me around during the later 4Kids run tbh as a boy). JN keeps the least OST of all the sagas, with SM the runner up for worst in this aspect.

I also kind of hate (pet peeve of mine, guys, YMMV) that TPCi trimmed the openings/length of intros down to 30 seconds whereas 4Kids had them running for 45 seconds at worst to 1 minute long at best (even the last one TPCi is doing is just a copy of 4Kids but with a worse singer I just saw in JN137's dub, and still restricted to 30 seconds). This was clearly a choice by TPCi, not by the networks, as on Disney XD you can see Yokai Watch with a minute long dub OP (even Gera Gera Po for a while) and Beyblade Burst at 45 seconds with its dub OP when the English dub of SM was broadcast on Disney XD in the USA over here. You compare the last 4Kids dub OP to the last TPCi dub OP, night and day to me, double the length and much more varied lyrics to their OP than just a remix of what was done prior. Credit where it's due for me, 4Kids had a much better music department and OPs than TPCi did, even if they didn't per se compare to the Japanese Version's IMO (I did like Johto Journeys and Advanced Challenge's OPs, though, especially!).

I'm of two minds on the dialogue/script changes, to clarify: while sure, TPCi doesn't go as far per se on translating differently, their dialogue feels a lot more inhumane and jadedly adult slang-y when compared to 4Kids' tenure so that kind of pushes me to slightly prefer 4Kids' writing despite its flaws, which I acknowledge (I feel like especially the way Ash and Team Rocket in particular was much more appropriate for their respective age groups/demographics, you already went into how much I detest TPCi's Team Rocket writing relative to 4Kids' tenure in your DP153 review with all the "lugs," "dig it," and such they gave to Meowth but all the alliterations, rhymes, etc. is unfunny and makes them the easiest people to hate in the English run post-4Kids in terms of diction. Also, there's no variety to the dialogue, you'll be drunk in no time if you count how many times TPCi dub Ash says "I'm so psyched" or "'kay" whereas 4Kids at least spiced it up a bit and made it feel more...genuine, I want to put it).

(Regarding the dub's VA work, I thought 4Kids was so much better than TPCi even at their worst overall: never thought I'd long for the days of even goofy AG James shouting in my ears but JCC's XY-JN take has made me as has the new dub James as it sounds like JCC's DP one which was my least favorite James in English before the one since 2014-2023 but still better than that one tbf so far)