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Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

Discussion in 'Pokémon Anime and Manga' started by Pokemaster Justin, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. Dogasu

    Dogasu ロケット団よ永遠

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    The character thing works with pretty much everybody, but I feel Nyarth is the most obvious because his proportions / head shape is so specific that even the slightest deviation results in something just looking off.

    My analogies are fine. The two person vs. one person thing doesn't matter, either. Musashi said the regular version of the common expression, and Kojirou adds to that with his own turn of phrase. The wordplay doesn't suddenly become invalid just because two people contribute to it instead of one.

    I really think you're taking a couple of lines that are just meant to be a joke (a lame joke, but a joke nonetheless) and are reading into it far too literally. To be fair, though, a lot of other fans do exactly the same thing. But in order for your interpretation to work we'd have to believe that screenplay writer Takeshi Shudo thought that the best way to reveal a couple of characters' ages would be to have them do so in an extremely unnatural exchange that requires the film's viewers to do a series of calculations to figure out what they're trying to say. I really don't think that's the case.

    (Plus, for the literal meaning to work the Rocket trio would have to actually know that Satoshi is ten years old. And while that's something they could have figured out on their own I don't think we actually know that they know?)

    Here's my take on it:

    [​IMG]

    So...sorta-kinda?
     
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  2. SkyWarriorT

    SkyWarriorT Member

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    That's pretty much implying the same exact thing about Ash returning Pidgeot was said in both the English dub & Japanese Version: also pretty solid dialogue/script writing from the dub despite slight liberties, compared to the crud we've had to deal with for the last few years now.
     
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  3. ii kanji

    ii kanji Clean bowled ⚾

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    From the birth of mewtwo radio drama:
    Or alternatively, from the Backpack itself:
    I think this is fairly conclusive evidence that Musashi is at least 20 (and given the other circumstantial evidence, probably a few years older), unless anyone feels that Shudo's Mewtwo origins story is non-canon or unreliable for some other reason.

    Whatever anyone thinks about the quote from Movie 2, I'd argue that it at least implies Kojiro is in a similar age bracket to Musashi, hence he is also in his 20s.
     
  4. kantoskies

    kantoskies Prepare for over-used stock animation!

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    Two things I'd like to add:

    1) In the dub of EP161 when Jessie tried to enter the Bug Catching Contest she was denied because the age limit was 16 and she was "obviously much older" than that. And according to Bulbapedia in the original the age limit was 18? It would make sense if she were 21-22 or so (or even older than that).

    2) It's kind of a running gag that other characters call Jessie names relating to her being an old woman/grandma. I feel like if she were only 17-18 they probably wouldn't do this as much? Typically these jokes don't start until someone is in their mid twenties or so.

    Like neither of these are concrete proof by any means and they certainly don't narrow down her age more than a general age range but I feel like they can at least be used to deduce that at least some writers intend for her to be at least in her 20s? Then again I feel like I'm reading way too much into some throwaway lines from episodes that aired over 15 years ago.

    I wish the artists actually drew characters age-accurate in this show. It's easy to say "oh she looks like she's in her mid-twenties" until you remember Ash and his friends are supposed to be ten but are usually drawn to look like they're 13-15 (depending on the series).
     
    #2584 kantoskies, Apr 28, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  5. Charmander4

    Charmander4 Member

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    Just a couple things I noticed. For SSB4, you have all the Pokémon listed that are in it except for Jigglypuff. I think this was when they didn't reveal it would be in it.

    Then I think there was a post you made about the season 1 opening that had clips from the actual episodes in it and there's one of Charmander you said you weren't sure where it was from. Well I finally saw where it was, it was in "Haunter vs Kadabra".
     
  6. GalacticRonpa

    GalacticRonpa 私立希望ヶ峰学園の生徒なんだ

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    Shigeru never drove the car. It was a woman part of his stupid fanclub.

    And I believe all references to going back to take X Pokemon in Kanto are light or inexistent? Not totally sure, but that's the case with Okorizaru at least.
     
  7. ii kanji

    ii kanji Clean bowled ⚾

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    What do you think are the budgetary reasons you alluded to for the girls' day episode being pushed back?
     
  8. martianmister

    martianmister マーシャンミスター

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    It's common assumption that Toru arc is created to advertize Pokémon Snap, a game released in March 21, 1999 at Japan. It seems weird to use him in an episode that aired a whole year before. So is it possible that Toru arc originally supposed to air in a later date?
     
  9. Dogasu

    Dogasu ロケット団よ永遠

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    (Well, there is the question of when Dr. Fuji's wife left him, which is different depending on which version of the story you're watching...)

    Don't get me wrong; the two probably *are* in their 20s, as both you and ii kanji said. I just don't think that line in Movie 2 is proof that they are.

    The "but isn't Musashi also potentially underage?" line from the comparison that sparked this whole discussion has a question mark there for a reason. I agree that they're probably meant to be in their twenties but the possibility that they aren't isn't zero.

    "Princess vs. Princess" easily has the largest number of digital paint edits in the series. My theory is that when 4Kids got to the episode, they had more or less already used up their digital paint budget for the season and so 4Kids pushed the episode back to Season 2 in order to, y'know, actually be able to afford to dub it.

    (of course, the whole issue could have been avoided if the company didn't have such a weird phobia against showing Japanese writing on screen dot dot dot)

    I'll be covering that in the comparison for "Pokemon Papparazzi" :)
     
  10. SammyW27

    SammyW27 Pony Ball Z: Battle of Alicorns!

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    Though just to let you know, you don't have to do comparisons you've already done before if they're okay as is.

    For example, you can skip OS63-65 if you want since you just then a couple of years ago for the "Mewtwo Mondays" theme and they're just fine. (y)
    Heck, I'm felt like the comparisons for "Holy Matrimony" and the upcoming "Pokemon Paparazzi" were perfect as they were, though I greatly appreciate your efforts.:love:
     
  11. FANG-TAN

    FANG-TAN 小聖杯

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    That's a good question. Maybe the character merely just inspired the game?

    Though it's strange he's introduced as if he's Satoshi's third traveling companion and then just leaves after three episodes if that was the case.
     
  12. MizuTaipu

    MizuTaipu The Metal Idol

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    I think Toru's episodes were made to coincide with the release of Pokémon Snap, much like the Kotone and Kazunari episodes were aired when HG/SS came out in Japan, but either the episodes are produced too early or the game itself had development problems and had to be released months later than intended.

    The certification exam and the daycare episodes are one of my favorites from Kanto, so I'm excited to see those comparisons. :)
     
  13. GalacticRonpa

    GalacticRonpa 私立希望ヶ峰学園の生徒なんだ

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    I'm reading some of the puns presented in the American dub here in the comparitions and, after watching a few episodes in my own language, it's pretty much a literal translation for everything (or almost), if there's not a stupid rewrite.

    As: "I think he said a DragonAIR."
    "No no, he said an AERodactyl." ....... is literal and makes no sense, since the dub pronounce both names different (Aé - Rodactly)
    "Once upgraded, your Pokédex will have an updated database and even a new voice." ..... Is also literal and the dex's got no new voice! xDDDDD

    There're more, but the most ridiculous one I remember is that joke in the Tohru's arc: "I'm the number one Pokemon Photo Master"
    "He said... Masker?"
    "That's right, I'm... No, I said Master, not Masker!"

    Here's a roughly translation in my language:
    "I'm a Pokemon Photo Mastor!"
    "He said... Mastor?"
    "That's right, I'm... Not Mastor, I said Master!"
    (Mestre - Mastro), they didn't sound nothing alike, so they had to let Tohru say "Mastro" instead.
     
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  14. MizuTaipu

    MizuTaipu The Metal Idol

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    God, this comparison just highlights how cringy 4Kids' writing was.
     
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  15. SkyWarriorT

    SkyWarriorT Member

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    4Kids' writing was fine most of the time, in fact, there's only a few times it was bad (unfortunately the next few episodes will be examples, they did very well with Orange Islands & early Johto).
    If anything, TPCi's writing is a thousand times more cringe-worthy to me: all the slang they give Ash, the rhymes/alliterations/puns/"Dig it" stuff from Meowth, Jessie, James, etc...ugh.
     
  16. Dogasu

    Dogasu ロケット団よ永遠

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    Well, as I explained in yesterday's update, I have reasons for redoing the ones that are "okay as-is."

    (Also, the "Pokemon Paparazzi" one is getting a major overhaul because the current one is nowhere near the level I want it to be and the newer version is going to be a lot better)

    Wow, those are really interesting! Thanks for sharing!!

    Part of the reason I like doing these Episode Comparisons is because the edits 4Kids / TPCI do don't just affect the English dub; they affect pretty much every other dub in the world. If the English dub changes something, that change is also applied to every single dub based off it. Some countries work hard to produce competent localizations while others just directly translate 4Kids' dumb jokes / puns without any thought put into them whatsoever. Unfortunately, it seems like your local dub goes for the latter.

    I really wish we lived in a world where the English dub didn't have as much of an influence on the rest of the world as it enjoys now.

    The TPCI dub is bad, yes, but that doesn't make what MizuTaipu said any less true.

    Both dubs are terrible in their own, special ways. It's not a competition.
     
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  17. SinnohEevee

    SinnohEevee Well-Known Member

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    4Kids significantly altered the plot in M01.

    May childhood was a lie. :p
     
  18. SkyWarriorT

    SkyWarriorT Member

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    Maybe to you, but I found 4Kids' dub considerably more listenable in the voice acting, music, and intros departments. I also prefer how they wrote Team Rocket's dialogue pretty substantially over TPCi, to be frank (even you have once elaborated on this when reviewing DP153).

    Not to say the 4Kids dub was anything to write home about, I'm aware of its issues, but I find the TPCi dub on its own level of suck by now, since it suffers from the exact same issues the 4Kids dub had as of this point (meaning it still made edits, errors, replaced BGM, script changes), but I feel, that it took away whatever the dub's good aspects were, on top of that.

    My point is 4Kids' dub stands out as less painful to sit through: even I have to take a lesser evil, I'll do it, I could at least take it for what it was (inb4 you say "crap" or something).

    *My childhood :p
    I'm already aware of that and M02's dubs having those problems: I'm just glad 4Kids' later Movies fared better overall (particularly M06-M08), which isn't true for TPCi, who began replacing the OST in the Movies since M17 began, which I honestly consider worse since they haven't shown a shred of improvement by now in contrast.
     
    #2598 SkyWarriorT, May 21, 2017
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  19. SammyW27

    SammyW27 Pony Ball Z: Battle of Alicorns!

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    Don't forget Maron (the girlfriend) in DBZ ;)

    Man, that was a sight watching her move around while parts of her bathing suit tried to keep up. :LOL:
     
    #2599 SammyW27, May 21, 2017
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  20. Dogasu

    Dogasu ロケット団よ永遠

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    And my point is that nobody was even talking about the TPCI dub in the first place when you decided to bring it up out of nowhere. It's not necessary to butt in saying "well, at least it's not as bad as the current dub!" whenever someone expresses issues they have with the 4Kids version of the show, y'know.
     
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