Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

[marshiyanmisuta]

Yeah there definitely is a complete double standard on this site about ragging on 4Kids for relatively harmless things like minor rewrites or calling riceballs donuts (WHO CARES?)

Obviously someone cares. Why are you even come here if you don't care?

Also, wow that box office placement. The nostalgia draw for this movie waned quickly.

A 50 percent down in the second week is pretty normal for pokemon movie standards and it's still higher compared to all previous movies since the first BW movie.

 

[Dogasu]

I don't have time to respond to everything here (I hope to get around to it someday!) but I wanted to address something real quick.

Dogasu's Backpack isn't a 4Kids dub vs. TPCI dub site. What it does do is compare the 4Kids dub to the Japanese version and also the TPCI dub to the Japanese version. The English verison's faithfulness (or lack thereof) to the original is what I'm interested in here.

If it seems like I'm more harsh on the 4Kids dub lately then probably only because I'm currently working exclusively on 4Kids-era episodes. If I was doing a new Sun & Moon comparison every week I'd probably get shit for ragging on TPCI all the time too.

At the end of the day I have no love for either dub and therefore have no interest whatsoever in proving which one is "better."　That's not a debate I'm interested in whatsoever.

 

[kantoskies]

I can't speak for everyone obviously but TPCi has made me (and from what I've gathered several other people) finally jump ship from the dub entirely so I'm not really sure where people are getting the idea that people on this site are typically harder on 4Kids than TPCi?

#4kidsformovie20

I'm not sure if you were being facetious or not but...I'm pretty sure 4Kids is bankrupt.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Yeah, I'm kind of confused about that too. I still watch primarily the dub, but plenty of people here have voiced their complaints about the TPCI for years and it isn't just the voice cast or how that change was handled. It's certainly not uncommon for people to complain about the TPCI dub at least, so the site isn't really anti-4Kids and pro-TPCI.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Can Japan call TPCi out for their bad dub if they feel it's hurting the anime in the US? I know they can't "fire" TPCi, but Pokémon belongs to Japan, no?

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Can Japan call TPCi out for their bad dub if they feel it's hurting the anime in the US? I know they can't "fire" TPCi, but Pokémon belongs to Japan, no?

They can "fire" DuArt.

 

[kantoskies]

This reminds me of something i saw recently:


View: http://snoozeooze.tumblr.com/post/163435686880/thatll-do-mobpsycho100-dissatisfied-with


If only OLM did the same

 

[Hidden Mew]

Can Japan call TPCi out for their bad dub if they feel it's hurting the anime in the US? I know they can't "fire" TPCi, but Pokémon belongs to Japan, no?

If Japan was that unsatisfied with the TPCI dub, I think that they would have done something about it ages ago. TPCI holds the license and was created to dub the anime, so they wouldn't be able to fire them even if they wanted to most likely. It's possible that they could force TPCI to go to a different studio instead of sticking with DuArt, but the chances of that are also pretty unlikely at best.

 

[Charmander4]

TPCI was created for more than just the dub. It was created handle all things Pokémon outside of Japan. 4Kids actually did a lot more than just the English dub, they handled much of the merchandise and marketing for the franchise too. Most of the non TCG stuff was done by 4Kids. Pokémon USA was created in 2001 to handle Pokémon stuff in house, and the TCG was brought in from Wizards of the Coast in 2003 and the rest from 4Kids in 2005.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I feared the dub would censor Stoutland's death.
I hope they don't butcher stuff when it comes to Lusamine (but then, I expect Japan to butcher Lusamine).

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

If it seems like I'm more harsh on the 4Kids dub lately then probably only because I'm currently working exclusively on 4Kids-era episodes. If I was doing a new Sun & Moon comparison every week I'd probably get shit for ragging on TPCI all the time too.

At the end of the day I have no love for either dub and therefore have no interest whatsoever in proving which one is "better."　That's not a debate I'm interested in whatsoever.

That's fair, Dogasu, I think I had misunderstood you then: it's fine then, but I'm just saying, both dubs have similar flaws at the end of the day. Which one is better is down to personal opinion, but I feel there's a wide disparity between the two in certain areas (you're all well aware of my preference on it): at least you're being more impartial here than I had given you credit for, so I apologize for that and jumping to conclusions.

Obviously someone cares. Why are you even come here if you don't care?

They may come here to vocalize a dissenting opinion: I know I have, and that shouldn't be a crime either. No one is doubting 4Kids did some dumb edits or script rewrites, but like them, TPCi also did some dumb edits & script rewrites, so I also think it's important to remind everyone this isn't something the 4Kids dub alone should be hung at the stake for when the TPCi dub did these things, too.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I feared the dub would censor Stoutland's death.
I hope they don't butcher stuff when it comes to Lusamine (but then, I expect Japan to butcher Lusamine).

I never understood why people thought that they'd censor Stoutland's death. There were two episodes in XY, the Espurr and Chesnaught episodes, where they made it perfectly clear that human characters died. They didn't really sugar coat those and they kept the foreshadowing of Stoutland's death in Litten's first focused episode. I know that the TPCI dub has its fair share of problems, but I don't think that the chances of downplaying Stoutland's death were all that great.

As for Lusamine, it's hard to say when we don't know how that aspect of the game will be played out in the show. The show itself might downplay her behavior and actions.

 

[Mew2]

For Lusamine, I'd also wait to see how she is portrayed in Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon. If she's good there, or if her insanity is more apparently due to the neurotoxins and they play up the fact that she was a good and kind person before being exposed to them, then chances are that the animé will play up her good characteristics and make it more apparent that her actions when infected by Nihilego's neurotoxins are not being done by her own free will. Though that also could allow for the story to become darker in a way while still being presentable to a family-friendly audience, especially if Lillie is the one who battles her and specifically does so to save her mother.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

4Kids wasn't perfect and there was some stupid errors like missing game mechanics they should've caught onto and others like then infamous Arbok>Seviper goof but their scripts were smart and threw in humor and a bone to the adults who had to watch with their kids and the voice acting and directing was top notch.

I can watch any one of their episodes today and not feel like I've lost brain cells. Can't say the same for TPCI's dumbed down lowest common denominator monstrosity.

I honestly agree with your analysis for the most part (there's a little bit of 4Kids era stuff I don't like, namely Princess v. Princess, Volcanic Panic to some degree, Battle of the Badge, M1-2 & some of Chronicles that being said, but the vast majority of 4Kids era dubbed material was tolerable at worst imo), and it's not like TPCi's dub is scot free of making these kinds of errors themselves. I recall them having Ash call his Greninja "Greninjo" in one XY dub ep, said Hearthome City was the same place as Eterna City in DP053's dub, one becomes a Pokemon Master by beating a Regional League tournament in DP191's dub which isn't said in Japanese...I could go on, but the point is random errors didn't change between the two dubs.

And I recall "The Ole Berate and Switch" as an example of TPCi rewriting whole Team Rocket scenes like 4Kids did for them in "Volcanic Panic," I recall that one being particularly awful during Battle Frontier (don't get me started on Cassidy's "Marvioso" line which isn't even a word), but judging the whole dub's writing off of just a few instances of it in either case is unfair from my perspective. Another one, now this one may not features scene rewrites per se, but has a very poorly done script in terms of the dialogue translation for Team Rocket that I feel is on that level in a different form for TPCi is "Noodles! Roamin' Off!" during DP's dub, one episode Dogasu has yet to cover.

As for death acknowledgement, 4Kids acknowledged Ash dying in "The Tower of Terror," Celebi's death, Latias' death, and Lucario's death (as did both dubs recognize Pokemon & trees dying too) so TPCi doing that as well doesn't really surprise me. What did surprise me is TPCi censored Meowth's joke death in Sun & Moon, though, shockingly even 4Kids kept Meowth's face in the water in a drowning pose in Kanto: that was rather unexpected, personally.

tl;dr Both dubs have done things I'm not pleased about with the scripts at times, not just 4Kids' dub.

 

[Galactic_V]

I don't have time to respond to everything here (I hope to get around to it someday!) but I wanted to address something real quick.

Dogasu's Backpack isn't a 4Kids dub vs. TPCI dub site. What it does do is compare the 4Kids dub to the Japanese version and also the TPCI dub to the Japanese version. The English verison's faithfulness (or lack thereof) to the original is what I'm interested in here.

If it seems like I'm more harsh on the 4Kids dub lately then probably only because I'm currently working exclusively on 4Kids-era episodes. If I was doing a new Sun & Moon comparison every week I'd probably get shit for ragging on TPCI all the time too.

At the end of the day I have no love for either dub and therefore have no interest whatsoever in proving which one is "better."　That's not a debate I'm interested in whatsoever.

You're going harsh on 4Kids now? I felt you're going easier on them comparing to a few years ago (if that's what you meant, course).
Remember having huge laughs back then when like you mocked Takuya (Fiorello Capuccino) as saying if he was supposed to look like Fabio or that the stereotype of hunky Italian guys is to be movie actors too (I'm half-Italian so I loled even harder).

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

You're going harsh on 4Kids now? I felt you're going easier on them comparing to a few years ago (if that's what you meant, course).
Remember having huge laughs back then when like you mocked Takuya (Fiorello Capuccino) as saying if he was supposed to look like Fabio or that the stereotype of hunky Italian guys is to be movie actors too (I'm half-Italian so I loled even harder).

I don't agree: he's being harsher than ever on the 4Kids dub from what I'm seeing (although about half of the time I've agreed with his thoughts, half of the time disagreed entirely so far reading his Kanto compares- especially that recent comment on Haigney was pretty uncalled for, even his one in "Charmander- The Stray Pokemon" was more justifiable imo since that one was about a genuine lack of knowledge, rather than his attitude, which Haigney seemed at least quite polite from what I can tell as a person when explaining his thought process).

I'm honestly more curious about what his thoughts are on the TPCi dub from mid BW to SM, since he hasn't reviewed anything from S15 onwards: he's only revisiting Kanto to cover eps he didn't before and revise some others right now, really. The only eps I've generally agreed with his thoughts are Princess v Princess, Riddle Me This & I think Battle of the Badge which he has yet to revise (but rest assured he wrote an essay on it like those other two I mentioned), the scripts in those 3 are bad. As for the others, I didn't have much issue with them like he did, though. I didn't really like the writing in Kanto's dub much vs the other 4Kids seasons (which that definitely got a lot better at the least reading through his compares), though, now I can kind of see why that's the case (music, I liked most in it because it's the season to keep more of it than 2-20 except for 14).

 

[Galactic_V]

I don't think Dogasu cares that much for TPCI dub, and that's not the site's focus either.

However, from the writing point of view, both are terrible to me. As... Why rewrite an entire scene needlessly. Why add lame jokes, and unstranslatable ones in other languages? My local dub suffered a lot with the latter lol

 

[kantoskies]

This episode always stuck out to me as being unusually ugly but also out-of-place for this point in the series. It had the weird "not quite sure how to draw these characters yet" vibe the first dozen or so episodes had.

 

[MizuTaipu]

Isn't there more to critique of 4Kids' handling of the show though? The biggest criticisms the TCPi dub has now are subpar acting and music replacements, they don't really give characters random accents like the Valley girl accents 4Kids gave to Misty's sisters in this episode, which is a big character change. The only instance I can remember TCPi doing that was once (an Australian accent for a COTD in an early DP episode).

 

[kantoskies]

Well I think the most noteworthy thing TPCi does that 4Kids didn't do is their butchering of the Rocket trio. Yes, 4Kids definitely changed their character and I can absolutely see how people (especially fans of the original) would be turned off by 4Kids Team Rocket but at least they were watchable whereas TPCi Team Rocket is a trainwreck. But I think Dogasu has brought up his dislike for TPCi Team Rocket in like 90% of his TPCi dub comparisons?