Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

[Charmander4]

Don't know why people are harping on them for actually doing a game reference, especially since they get crapped on for removing them. Never can win can they? And I always chalked up anime "Seafoam islands" as being more detailed in the anime than in the games as the same logic that lets Pikachu attack ground types.

And I've been to Westwood, CA many times. Small town east of Mt. Lassen. My grandma was born there.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

the same logic that lets Pikachu attack ground types.

You know people call out the writers on that one, too so I really don’t know what do you want to prove by writin that.

I wonder what would be your reaction if TPCi had made the change....

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Don't know why people are harping on them for actually doing a game reference, especially since they get crapped on for removing them. Never can win can they?

Problem is their tendency to make up stuff.

 

[kantoskies]

Never can win can they?

They can win when they accurately translate the original script. It's not that difficult of a concept.

 

[MizuTaipu]

I think you should get rid of the "this week's episode" and "why can't every week be this easy?" parts in the comparison because future visitors to your site who read that comparison long after #Kanto2017 is over will be wondering what you're referring to.

 

[kantoskies]

Maybe it's because its 3:30am but I can't stop laughing at how Puka's name in the original was "Michael", that's like when someone names their cat "Craig", it's just too funny to me.

 

[technickal]

I actually sat down and watched this episode the other day in preparation for this comparison and didn't come across anything that screamed "this is a 4Kids rewrite". Looks like I was (almost) correct! The few changes they did make I actually liked. They helped play up the parallels between Victor/Puka and Jan.

The only real losses are the references to Misty's game title and that old surfing movie. I knew about the name changes before and understood why they were made (well, except Vincent -> Victor, still scratching my head over that one), but now that I know where they come from they really should've been left alone.

 

[PockyAddict]

I still don't get why both tpci and 4kids changes english names to other english names. I just find that type of localization weird as hell.

 

[Charmander4]

Vincent is longer than Victor. It’s quite possible they ran into problems with mouth flaps on some lines.

 

[technickal]

I still don't get why both tpci and 4kids changes english names to other english names. I just find that type of localization weird as hell.

With Puka, I'm guessing they were trying to give the character more of an exotic feel since such a common Western name doesn't really have that effect outside of Japan. But with Vincent->Victor they changed a common Western name to an arguably more common Western name. So I don't get that one.

Vincent is longer than Victor. It’s quite possible they ran into problems with mouth flaps on some lines.

Both have the same amount of syllables so that shouldn't really be a problem.

 

[Gabo2oo]

In any case, I highly doubt mouth flap issues could be a valid reason for name changes. Name lengths don't matter at all since they're almost always mentioned as part of a full sentence. Mouth flaps are considered when localizing an entire line of dialogue, but not a sole word.

The only time where one single word could present a problem for translation is when it's used as an interjection ("hai", "nani", etc), and even then, most English equivalents are equally long. There are also some occasions where a name is said by itself, but that didn't stop them from changing a three-syllable name to a one-syllable name (Kojiro → James).

 

[kantoskies]

Wasn't Lorelei's name changed during the Orange Islands to "Prima" in order to fit the mouthflaps for "Kanna"? I've also heard some claim that Ash was given the surname "Ketchum" to fit the mouthflaps for "Satoshi", but I can't back this up with any evidence. But yeah that still doesn't explain dub names like Brock, James, May, or Dawn. Yeah three of the four were game characters but so was Lorelei. It could be 4Kids was just covering their mistake of giving a character from the games a new localized name but they've done this so many times I don't see why they would suddenly try to excuse their way out of it for that one instance.

Also kind of off-topic but considering how TPCi changed the line in the Rocket motto from just "James" to "and it's James" makes me think that had they localized the show from the beginning they would have given Kojiro a dub name with three syllables, and possibly Musashi the same (since Jessie only has two).

 

[Gabo2oo]

Well, had they given James a different name, I'm not sure if Jessie's would've been the same, since the point is for them to be named after Jesse James. I gotta admit I like their dub names, but I wonder which other pun with longer names could have worked for them. Consider the other Rockets follow a similar pattern in the dub, but Butch and Hun are both one-syllable names too, so...

 

[Charmander4]

TPCi wouldn’t have been creative enough to give them catchy names.

 

[Neo Blaze]

Very interesting to know about Seafoam Islands being a dub only thing. I always did think it was weird Seafoam was a tropical resort in the anime. They also speak of "the island" in the dub if I'm not mistaken, and not "the islands", which would make more sense considering it's the Seafoam Islands.

But now I'm wondering: what about the Chronicles episode Oaknapped? That special episode is said to take place at the "Seafoam Islands" as well. The Jenny of Oaknapped even has the same hat symbol as the Jenny of The Pi-Kahuna (it bears a heavy resemblance at least):

Spoiler

Did they mention Binnes here as well in the original version? I'd assume so, and I'd also assume that the dub just chose to retain Seafoam Islands here as well for consistency reasons. The dub of Oaknapped also speaks of a bridge from Seafoam to Fuchsia City. I wonder if this is in the original version as well and if Binnes has a bridge to Fuchsia.

In any case, it's a mess and one of the weirder changes the dub has ever made.

EDIT: Turns out Dogasu already did a comparison on Oaknapped... Apparently they speak of "Binbou no Machi" (Binbou Town) in the original version of Oaknapped, which, judging from Jenny's hat symbol, is probably the same as Binnes. And the bridge to Fuchsia wasn't there in the original version.

 

[technickal]

Wasn't Lorelei's name changed during the Orange Islands to "Prima" in order to fit the mouthflaps for "Kanna"? I've also heard some claim that Ash was given the surname "Ketchum" to fit the mouthflaps for "Satoshi", but I can't back this up with any evidence. But yeah that still doesn't explain dub names like Brock, James, May, or Dawn. Yeah three of the four were game characters but so was Lorelei. It could be 4Kids was just covering their mistake of giving a character from the games a new localized name but they've done this so many times I don't see why they would suddenly try to excuse their way out of it for that one instance.

Also kind of off-topic but considering how TPCi changed the line in the Rocket motto from just "James" to "and it's James" makes me think that had they localized the show from the beginning they would have given Kojiro a dub name with three syllables, and possibly Musashi the same (since Jessie only has two).

I never really bought the mouth flap excuse for Kanna/Lorelei/Prima either. Couldn't they just say "lore-lie"?
And yeah, I thought "Jessie" and "James" being changed to "It's Jessie" and "And it's James" for the TPCi dub were so they didn't have to cram the names into three mouth flaps.

 

[Galactic_V]

I actually loved the Vincent > Victor change. Hearing my real name in the anime made me really happy back in the day.

 

[Yash]

If you notice in the older dub episodes, James' mouth clearly moves three times when he says his name.

4Kids has never been particularly good at matching lip flaps, even in their other dubs.

 

[Insanish Danish]

Yeah, Eric Stuart always just dragged the name out so it had three syllables. It's actually kind of awkward as hell but I guess 4Kids couldn't think of anything better to deal with that situation.

Reading through the newer comparisons I actually laughed out loud at Dogasu's "UGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH" in reaction to Oak's pun XD I had more or less the same reaction.

 

[kantoskies]

I think there's also a non-English dub that has James pronounce his name as "Ja-ma-maes" to cover the mouthflaps....I guess 4Kids really didn't realize this would be an issue.

I've also always thought mouthflaps were the reason why they started altering the "prepare for trouble, make it double" lines in the orange islands because they were way too short to fit over the original lines.