Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

[Insanish Danish]

I was really looking forward to this rewrite. It's one of my absolute favorite episodes.

The 4Kids dub will always have a special place in my heart - it's what I grew up with, after all, and therefore I have a lot of fondness and nostalgia for it. That being said, the more of these episode comparisons I read, the more I can't help but wonder why 4Kids didn't translate it more faithfully. I know there are a lot of Japanese puns and expressions that wouldn't have worked in English, but other than that, surely they could have avoided most of the rewrites? I don't get it.

 

[ii kanji]

Do you want to kill him? Because no one could make it out of a marathon of TPCi Rockets alive, or at least sane

He can surely take one for the team!

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Oh, wait I get it!
Itai (Pain) + Roketto + Happii = I-RO-HA
Iroha = Basics. He's learning the basics!

 

[SammyW27]

Though the thing to remember is that Nathan Price was originally trying to make Meowth sound like a gangster, given his role early in the series. Plus, he rocked it, IMHO. (Then Blaustein and especially Cathbert ruined it...)

 

[ii kanji]

Though the thing to remember is that Nathan Price was originally trying to make Meowth sound like a gangster, given his role early in the series.

But... he's not a gangster. He's a cat who joined an evil organisation because it was named after one of his first words. I don't know jack about liguistics, but I'm pretty sure you don't just develop a stereotypical accent different from those you learnt language from....................

 

[kantoskies]

Unpopular opinion....i actually liked Blaustein's Meowth in the first few seasons....):

 

[Insanish Danish]

I did too. She was my favorite dub Meowth by far.

And okay, to be fair to Nathan Price, he didn't realize there was going to be an episode later on explaining how Meowth learned to talk like a human (I don't think it had aired in Japan at the time the dub began, had it?). Though that still doesn't explain why he decided to give Meowth a gangster voice to begin with...was there a reason or did he just think it would be a funny voice for a talking cat?

 

[ii kanji]

Unpopular opinion....i actually liked Blaustein's Meowth in the first few seasons....):

I don't think that is an unpopular opinion you know?
Confession time: I also like her Meowth, the most of the 4Kids TRio in fact (in stark contrast to the ear-splitting Zoppi version!)

 

[kantoskies]

I did too. She was my favorite dub Meowth by far.

And okay, to be fair to Nathan Price, he didn't realize there was going to be an episode later on explaining how Meowth learned to talk like a human (I don't think it had aired in Japan at the time the dub began, had it?). Though that still doesn't explain why he decided to give Meowth a gangster voice to begin with...was there a reason or did he just think it would be a funny voice for a talking cat?

Yeah I feel like it falls on the director, it was probably just a "hey wouldn't this be funny" thing. I'm not sure anyone at 4Kids knew about that episode yet, but considering who wrote it details from it could have been included in a character summary given to 4Kids when they first started casting. It definitely was a weird decision though, and it's weird that 4Kids didn't even try to explain it once they dubbed the episode.

And I agree with her being the best dub Meowth, though that bar isn't very high

I don't think that is an unpopular opinion you know?
Confession time: I also like her Meowth, the most of the 4Kids TRio in fact (in stark contrast to the ear-splitting Zoppi version!)

I guess it depends on who you ask then! I actually really liked the entire 4Kids main cast (the kids, Rockets, Oak, Delia, Jenny/Joy, the narrator) in seasons 2-4 and Rachael Lillis' Jessie in particular was one of my favorites. Oh sure she's no Megumi Hayashibara, but she really added a quality to the dubbed version of the character that Michelle Knotz never seemed to capture. Same with Maddie Blaustein (before season 6 anyways), in fact the whole dub cast in that time period really worked well for the dub versions of each character, for better or worse.

 

[ii kanji]

in fact the whole dub cast in that time period really worked well for the dub versions of each character, for better or worse.

During OS I felt they all had great chemistry together. After 10 years of watching the original I can't go back without seeing all the flaws, but I am still able to enjoy it which I'm afraid I can't say from AG onward. How much of that is my personal nostalgia bias is impossible to say.

 

[Gabo2oo]

Really good review, but this bit here stood out to me:

More importantly, Meowth says here that "rocket" was the first word he understood. Which is incorrect because we literally just saw him being able to say "She sells seashells" not two sentences ago.

They were making a distinction between the first word he said versus the first word he actually knew the meaning of. That's why they had Meowth explain "I didn't know what seashells were" just before. I guess 4Kids wanted to make a slightly bigger deal out of him learning the word "Rocket" than the Japanese version did.

 

[technickal]

Really good review, but this bit here stood out to me:

They were making a distinction between the first word he said versus the first word he actually knew the meaning of. That's why they had Meowth explain "I didn't know what seashells were" just before. I guess 4Kids wanted to make a slightly bigger deal out of him learning the word "Rocket" than the Japanese version did.

Yeah, he brought that up in his last revision of that review. Not sure why he removed it.

 

[SammyW27]

Who-da thunk they really WOULD make a big deal about the 1,000 episode?

(Though I find some the math questionable...)

 

[Gabo2oo]

(Though I find some the math questionable...)

It makes a lot of sense to me. The side story episodes from Pokémon Hoso are considered a different show (they aired at a different timeslot too), while the specials from DP onwards, even if it seems weird, have always been treated as regular episodes in Japan.

 

[Yash]

During OS I felt they all had great chemistry together. After 10 years of watching the original I can't go back without seeing all the flaws, but I am still able to enjoy it which I'm afraid I can't say from AG onward. How much of that is my personal nostalgia bias is impossible to say.

Yeah, this is what I felt when the first TPCI episodes started airing and people were complaining about the new voice cast. It was pretty apparent by the end of Advanced Generation that the 4Kids crew had been phoning it in for a while. In fairness, they probably thought they had permanent job security, but you can ask Tom Wayland how that worked out.

Not saying that the TPCI dub is better, but I think people were holding it up against their memories of seasons 1, 2 and 3 which I would suggest had a lot more passion and energy behind them from the English dub. That might have something to do with 4Kids taking on more anime projects, that seems to be around where the quality of their work suffered. Even with their other shows, Yugioh season 1 was handled much better than the rest of the series, by which point they had Sonic X, One Piece, Shaman King, etc. on their plates as well.

 

[Charmander4]

People say the performance went down but I just never saw it and still don’t. There is some difference in how some characters sounded from the first season but it’s a gradual change and not that different. A lot of it can be attributed to the actors age and recording quality in 1998 vs 2006.

Veronica Taylor said Ash’s voice got a little deeper to convey he’s more mature than he was in the beginning which is what she was trying to do for AG. Look around the 20 minute mark and she performs the earlier Ash voice and the one from later seasons. The whole video is amazing to watch but she still has it as Ash.

View: https://youtu.be/qXtDyPWdQXA

And I never heard anything from Onix but a growl. Knowing it’s Japanese name is Iwark means you can kind of hear it being said but it mostly sounds like a generic roar.

 

[Yash]

People say the performance went down but I just never saw it and still don’t. There is some difference in how some characters sounded from the first season but it’s a gradual change and not that different. A lot of it can be attributed to the actors age and recording quality in 1998 vs 2006.

Veronica Taylor said Ash’s voice got a little deeper to convey he’s more mature than he was in the beginning which is what she was trying to do for AG. Look around the 20 minute mark and she performs the earlier Ash voice and the one from later seasons. The whole video is amazing to watch but she still has it as Ash.

View: https://youtu.be/qXtDyPWdQXA

And I never heard anything from Onix but a growl. Knowing it’s Japanese name is Iwark means you can kind of hear it being said but it mostly sounds like a generic roar.

I’d say the biggest offender was Eric Stuart. He went from acting to just doing voices, and sounds pretty checked out in the last few seasons. I saw an Advanced rerun a few years ago and was caught so off-guard by how odd some of Brock’s line readings were, and James just went full camp.

Also seemed like Maddie started getting more obnoxious with Meowth as the seasons went on. Taylor was ok but I found her vocal choices to be inconsistent at times (that bit about her deepening Ash’s voice gradually is cool, but he also started out very deep and then went very high, it took a while to settle). Lillis I never had an issue with, other than I guess Misty becoming more reserved as time went on, which I’d attribute more to the writers (including in the Japanese version) softening her character.

Obviously this is all just my opinion, and just my observation on how the cast (imo) deteriorated over time. That in addition to less music being kept and some odd paint edits and cuts, I can’t say I was too upset when 4Kids lost the license.

 

[technickal]

Have to say that I prefer Taylor's AG take on Ash the most. In early Kanto he sounded rather unnaturally deep and throaty, which was fair as she was just adjusting to the role. But then she overcompensated with that falsetto voice we hear in the Orange Islands and Johto. It wasn't until late Johto/early Hoenn when things started to even out.

On the other hand, Stuart's James was great at first but then he just kept hamming it up. I'd say the peak of his performance was The Fortune Hunters with that infamous "flaming Moltres" scene but things just kept going downhill from there. And that really hurt the more emotional moments later in the series, especially Arbok and Weezing's release.

Blaustein's take on Meowth I have to say was the most consistently good. I didn't really find that drastic a change between seasons. But her most heartfelt performance I have to say was Go West, Young Meowth. I know Dogasu gave her a lot of flak in his comparison for not sounding like Inuyama but personally I think that's for the best. I can understand the appeal but Meowth's Japanese voice is just too grating in my opinion.

And regarding Onix keeping its original voice, for once I agree with Charmander. It does sound like a generic roar unless you're aware of the Pokémon's Japanese name.

 

[Gengarzilla]

I may not like 4Kids very much as a company, but I really don't care who voices these characters anymore. This is such a superficial change deep down; it doesn't and shouldn't change anything for anyone. They're still the same group of faces that we've all enjoyed to varying extents for the past 20 years now.

The way some people act over this, it's as though we got an entirely new cast of actual characters when 4Kids lost the license. I'm really beginning to think this voicing issue has been blown way out of proportion now.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I thought that Brock's voice was fine during AG. He definitely sounded deeper, especially when Eric Stuart would often dive into his Kaiba voice whenever Brock was angry, but I thought it was fine. His voice for James could work for some of the comical moments or with some of the lines they gave him, but that did make the more serious/emotional/dramatic moments a bit harder to sell when the voice had become completely silly. At least during the first few seasons, his voice for James was still kind of silly, but he was able to pull off more serious moments more effective, such as Holy Matrimony. I was used to it, so I don't think it ever bothered me, even when I rewatch older episodes now, but I can see why his voice for James would bother more people as the series progresses.

I think that I actually prefer Ash's deep voice during AG compared to his voice in the original series. He sounded a bit more like a ten year old boy during mid/late Kanto, but that sense of maturity in his deeper voice was kind of fitting given how Ash had progressed as a trainer even back then. It was one of the reasons why I thought Ash was older in AG, but this was before his age was definitely confirmed to be ten forever. I still kind of miss speculating on how much time has passed in the anime. That was fun. There were still episodes where Veronica Taylor's new pitch for his voice sounded a bit off or a bit too deep, but I generally liked it.