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Gotta admit that the closet thing made me laugh once I got older, but it was because I was too little to get it when that episode debuted.
Good idea! I'll see about doing that since i'm already on there.Just post an article on lost media wiki. We need to find all lost media of Pokemon.
By "go straight" he meant live an honest life and leave Team Rocket, I really don't think the dub was trying to imply he was gay, I think that's a bit of stretch personally. I think that theory comes from some people on the internet back then having an overactive imagination and assuming that every guy who was vaguely non-masculine in any way was "gay"(I remember quite a few people on the Planet Namek forums claiming Freeza in DBZ was "gay").The Japanese voice actors said pretty much the same thing regarding Jessie and James' relationship, actually, though they do understand why some people ship them.
But yes, the American dubbers were definitely trying to insinuate James was gay without outright saying so. Even before Eric Stuart started voicing him, they had him say double entendres like "it's times like these that make me want to go straight". But a lot of it came from old stereotypes so I understand why not everyone would be a fan of that approach.
I disagree personally, I never felt like they disrespected the original source material, just changed a few things to better relate to American audiences, were some of them unnecessary? Perhaps, but I wouldn't call it blasphemous or anything like that. It's nowhere near the level of silly re-writes that the Ocean dub of DBZ had.Some of 4Kids' rewrites could be considered improvements, yes, but I'm not sure how I feel about someone heavily editorializing another's writing without making the original version available, and especially without said original writer being made aware. If part of the original script doesn't translate well at all or has a blatant error or would be considered extremely offensive over here, then that's one thing, but most of the examples I've seen from 4Kids just come across as their writers having very little to no respect for the original source material... or at the very least, thinking they somehow know better.
Fair, perhaps I exaggerated a bit in that regard. Maybe "unprofessional" would be a better word choice. And I wasn't referring to little things that got changed due to legitimate linguistic or cultural differences, but entire conversations that got changed for seemingly no other reason than the dub writers simply feeling like it. It's true that it's not even close to DBZ levels of rewritten, and is pretty faithful by 4Kids standards, but I still find it rather questionable that any dub or localization is allowed to have those kinds of unnecessary changes.I disagree personally, I never felt like they disrespected the original source material, just changed a few things to better relate to American audiences, were some of them unnecessary? Perhaps, but I wouldn't call it blasphemous or anything like that. It's nowhere near the level of silly re-writes that the Ocean dub of DBZ had.
I don't generally mind the changes too much if they aren't too distracting, I liked 4Kids style of humor quite a bit(it especially works well in their dub of Kirby, as many consider the original dub to be rather bland and forgettable by comparison).Fair, perhaps I exaggerated a bit in that regard. Maybe "unprofessional" would be a better word choice. And I wasn't referring to little things that got changed due to legitimate linguistic or cultural differences, but entire conversations that got changed for seemingly no other reason than the dub writers simply feeling like it. It's true that it's not even close to DBZ levels of rewritten, and is pretty faithful by 4Kids standards, but I still find it rather questionable that any dub or localization is allowed to have those kinds of unnecessary changes.
That's... what a double entendre is. A phrase that has two possible interpretations, one more obvious than the other. Of course from the perspective of the character himself, it was "straight" as in "straight and narrow", but that doesn't mean the line wasn't deliberately written so it could be interpreted differently out of context.By "go straight" he meant live an honest life and leave Team Rocket, I really don't think the dub was trying to imply he was gay, I think that's a bit of stretch personally.
I agree; it's very ignorant to assume that any man who isn't considered sufficiently masculine is gay and vice versa. But a lot of people legitimately believed that not too long ago, as you said, though it definitely wasn't limited to the internet. That mentality was widespread enough at the time that I believe it's the main reason 4Kids added all those jokes hinting at James being gay in the first place. Hence why they could be considered to be in very poor taste.I think that theory comes from some people on the internet back then having an overactive imagination and assuming that every guy who was vaguely non-masculine in any way was "gay"(I remember quite a few people on the Planet Namek forums claiming Freeza in DBZ was "gay").
I think it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation where it's unclear what came first-did 4Kids make those jokes to piggyback off what the internet was saying or was it purely coincidental? either way i'm not comfortable assuming 4Kids was for sure intentionally making gay jokes without some actual solid evidence to back it up.That's... what a double entendre is. A phrase that has two possible interpretations, one more obvious than the other. Of course from the perspective of the character himself, it was "straight" as in "straight and narrow", but that doesn't mean the line wasn't deliberately written so it could be interpreted differently out of context.
I agree; it's very ignorant to assume that any man who isn't considered sufficiently masculine is gay and vice versa. But a lot of people legitimately believed that not too long ago, as you said, though it definitely wasn't limited to the internet. That mentality was widespread enough at the time that I believe it's the main reason 4Kids added all those jokes hinting at James being gay in the first place. Hence why they could be considered to be in very poor taste.
I think it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation where it's unclear what came first-did 4Kids make those jokes to piggyback off what the internet was saying or was it purely coincidental? either way i'm not comfortable assuming 4Kids was for sure intentionally making gay jokes without some actual solid evidence to back it up.
Also, the "effeminate = gay" stereotype predates the internet by decades at the very least.Firstly, the ‘go straight’ line came from OS episode 7. I find it a little hard to believe that the internet was taking about James being gay when that line was written (presumably before the show had even started airing overseas and people abroad did not have easy access to the original Japanese show) or that staff would have been reading this even if they were, back in the late 90s when the internet was a little different from now…
Secondly, there are numerous examples, some of which have just been discussed, in which 4Kids made very obvious jokes implying James is gay when there was no such corresponding line in the original. What further evidence do you need that they were responsible? Who else would be responsible for that? I don’t quite get your argument here.
I dunno maybe someone from 4Kids actually confirming this?Firstly, the ‘go straight’ line came from OS episode 7. I find it a little hard to believe that the internet was taking about James being gay when that line was written (presumably before the show had even started airing overseas and people abroad did not have easy access to the original Japanese show) or that staff would have been reading this even if they were, back in the late 90s when the internet was a little different from now…
Secondly, there are numerous examples, some of which have just been discussed, in which 4Kids made very obvious jokes implying James is gay when there was no such corresponding line in the original. What further evidence do you need that they were responsible? Who else would be responsible for that? I don’t quite get your argument here.
James dressed and disguised as a woman many times in early OS.Also, the "effeminate = gay" stereotype predates the internet by decades at the very least.
Probably.James dressed and disguised as a woman many times in early OS.
"A man dressing as a woman must be gay" is the stereotype that likely made people think James was gay.
I don't recall that ever being mentioned on the site but that could potentially be true, if that was the case, it was probably out of concern that the FCC might consider that sort-of-thing "inappropriate" for kids(after all that is why "Beauty and the Beach" only aired like twice in the U.S. and never got an official home release)they were notoriously strict when it came to Saturday morning cartoons, hell they were the reason that 4Kids dub of One Piece had to be so heavily edited.Didn't dogasu pull out an interview from the Japanese side saying 4kids was not happy about the cross dressing?
Yeah I can see that as 4Kids actually did do that with a few episodes of the 1st season of Yu-Gi-Oh- Yugi's duel with Weevil and his duel with Panik were both combined into one episode for the tv airings, but in home video and streaming releases they are both split up into two episodes.Michael Haigney said in an interview that 4kids before doing work on the show was thinking about combining episodes together. Crazy 4kids.
What interview are you referring to, by any chance?Michael Haigney said in an interview that 4kids before doing work on the show was thinking about combining episodes together. Crazy 4kids.