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Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

darksteel6

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Dogasu isn't a youtuber, they only care about people splicing scenes of the anime episodes into their videos. Serebii.net still has full pictures of every episode on his site and they haven't told Serebii Joe to take down his episode pictures for example.
Not yet, but with the way Sho-Pro is going now I wouldn't be surprised if they start trying to do exactly that.
 

darksteel6

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If Sho-Pro can legally do that, we couldn't really stop them.

I really doubt Sho-Pro cares so much about Western audience.
That's why Youtube really needs geo-blocking enabled for every Youtuber (so that these videos aren't seen in Japan), not just those on MCN's or big ones like Mark.
 

PaperSplash

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Even if they are in the right legally that still does not mean we should take this lying down and let them get away with it, if they do this who knows how far they'll go? Maybe they'll even start targeting Pokemon fansites like Dogasu's Backpack next? Sho-Pro are greedy and malicious bastards and I wouldn't put anything past them at this point.
You've got to keep in mind not only the language barrier, but the cultural barrier at play here. Your argument would likely come off as rather conceited from ShoPro's perspective, to say the least. And it can't be guaranteed that most of the Japanese fanbase will sympathize with your cause either. Not only is fair use barely a thing legally in Japan as you mentioned which would make them less accustomed to the concept, but as far as I'm aware public anti-corporate sentiment isn't nearly as widespread in Japan as it is over here. I don't mean to generalize, of course, but I just want to inform you that it won't be as easy to get a near-unanimous outcry on this issue as it would be were it purely domestic.
 

darksteel6

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You've got to keep in mind not only the language barrier, but the cultural barrier at play here. Your argument would likely come off as rather conceited from ShoPro's perspective, to say the least. And it can't be guaranteed that most of the Japanese fanbase will sympathize with your cause either. Not only is fair use barely a thing legally in Japan as you mentioned which would make them less accustomed to the concept, but as far as I'm aware public anti-corporate sentiment isn't nearly as widespread in Japan as it is over here. I don't mean to generalize, of course, but I just want to inform you that it won't be as easy to get a near-unanimous outcry on this issue as it would be were it purely domestic.
I highly doubt most of the Japanese fanbase gives a rat's ass about a smaller Youtuber like Suede talking about the dub of Pokemon
 

Konja7

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I highly doubt most of the Japanese fanbase gives a rat's ass about a smaller Youtuber like Suede talking about the dub of Pokemon
The point is that Sho-Pro wouldn't care about Western audience opinions. I remember the episodes of "Journeys" were officialy released in Youtube (I don't know if they are still doing this), but these were blocked outside Japan.

Sho-Pro would mainly care about Japanese audience opinions. The problem is Japanese fanbase wouldn't care about a smaller youtuber.
 

darksteel6

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The point is that Sho-Pro wouldn't care about Western audience opinions. I remember the episodes of "Journeys" were officialy released in Youtube (I don't know if they are still doing this), but these were blocked outside Japan.

Sho-Pro would mainly care about Japanese audience opinions. The problem is Japanese fanbase wouldn't care about a smaller youtuber.
Well see about that, now that Kotaku has picked up the story things will get very interesting: https://kotaku.com/youtube-shopro-suede-fair-use-copyright-anime-pokemon-p-1848478203
 

Dogasu

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Doing some catchup:

snowmint said:
Didn't dogasu pull out an interview from the Japanese side saying 4kids was not happy about the cross dressing?

Yup. It was veteran animator Sayuri Ichi'ishi who revealed this back in 2018:


darksteel6 said:
People just have such an insane hatred for 4Kids

No, I think people's dislike of 4Kids is completely warranted. They were a bad company that produced terrible products. It's not really all that complicated.

Yash said:
That's interesting because the new Shaman King series (dubbed by Netflix) got back as much of the 4Kids cast as were seemingly willing to come back, including Megan Hollingshead, and you can kind of tell the difference between the returning 4Kids cast and the new cast members based on who's doing overacting cartoon voices versus taking a more natural approach. Still, the 4Kids actors are a lot more subdued than they were in the actual 4Kids dub, and having more mature dialogue probably helps a lot there too.

Something else I've noticed is that the Pokémon dubs based out in California -- so Pokémon Origins, Pokémon Generations, Pokémon Evolution -- tend to sound much, much more natural than any of the regular TV series stuff still coming out of New York. It's like the New York actors are stuck in some kind of time warp, unable to escape the sort of one-dimensional cartoon voice acting that was the norm in the 1990s but has long since been phased out everywhere else.

snowmint said:
Why is there no insider working on the anime trying to fight to get the narration redubbed or something?

Probably because a redub like what you're suggesting wouldn't even make it past the proposal stage. Why would OLM bother to spend the time, money, effort, etc. to redub a single episode from 20 years ago? What would that do for them, exactly?


As for the whole ShoPro YouTube thing...I'm not sure why the topic's even coming up in this thread...? I'm not a YouTuber, and I've never talked about ever watching anipoke YouTubers in the past.
 

JinksChow

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The point is that Sho-Pro wouldn't care about Western audience opinions. I remember the episodes of "Journeys" were officialy released in Youtube (I don't know if they are still doing this), but these were blocked outside Japan.

Nah, I live in South-East Asia, and the Pokémon Asia ENG YouTube channel has been uploading episodes from the DP, XY, and JN series on a weekly basis, all of which I can watch without changing my IP address.

So yea, I think the Pokemon Company just hates its anime audience outside of Asia. :confused_emoji:
 

Dogasu

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No, I think it's just that ShoPro doesn't like it when non-official sources (i.e. fan Youtube accounts) post clips from the shows they own the rights to.

Which is something we've known for YEARS, by the way.
 

Konja7

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No, I think it's just that ShoPro doesn't like it when non-official sources (i.e. fan Youtube accounts) post clips from the shows they own the rights to.

Which is something we've known for YEARS, by the way.

Yeah. That's pretty possible.

Many South-East Asia countries don't have fair use law. So, it wouldn't be so common that people in these countries post clips from ShoPro shows.
 

darksteel6

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Doing some catchup:



Yup. It was veteran animator Sayuri Ichi'ishi who revealed this back in 2018:




No, I think people's dislike of 4Kids is completely warranted. They were a bad company that produced terrible products. It's not really all that complicated.



Something else I've noticed is that the Pokémon dubs based out in California -- so Pokémon Origins, Pokémon Generations, Pokémon Evolution -- tend to sound much, much more natural than any of the regular TV series stuff still coming out of New York. It's like the New York actors are stuck in some kind of time warp, unable to escape the sort of one-dimensional cartoon voice acting that was the norm in the 1990s but has long since been phased out everywhere else.



Probably because a redub like what you're suggesting wouldn't even make it past the proposal stage. Why would OLM bother to spend the time, money, effort, etc. to redub a single episode from 20 years ago? What would that do for them, exactly?


As for the whole ShoPro YouTube thing...I'm not sure why the topic's even coming up in this thread...? I'm not a YouTuber, and I've never talked about ever watching anipoke YouTubers in the past.
Nah 4Kids were not a "bad company" and did not produce "terrible products" at all, I think that's complete and utter nonsense. Like it or not if it wasn't for them, Pokemon wouldn't have been anywhere near the cultural phenomenon it was.
 

RetroPokeFan

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Nah 4Kids were not a "bad company" and did not produce "terrible products" at all, I think that's complete and utter nonsense. Like it or not if it wasn't for them, Pokemon wouldn't have been anywhere near the cultural phenomenon it was.
I do think 4Kids is kinda nostalgic for me (at least Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh wise anyway) but there is no denying that there are a few pretty terrible stuff from them. Of course the infamous One Piece dub they did is no doubt the biggest stench from them without a doubt and Pokémon wise Chronicles was easily the lowest point for them.
 

PaperSplash

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I hesitate to call 4Kids a "bad company", because I think there were a lot of good (if sometimes misguided) people working for or under them. I can't really say the same for the management side, though; Alfred Kahn in particular made a lot of questionable statements over the years, to say the least.
 

darksteel6

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I do think 4Kids is kinda nostalgic for me (at least Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh wise anyway) but there is no denying that there are a few pretty terrible stuff from them. Of course the infamous One Piece dub they did is no doubt the biggest stench from them without a doubt and Pokémon wise Chronicles was easily the lowest point for them.
Chronicles was pretty damn good IMO, One Piece was bad but that was less their fault and more Toei's for forcing them to dub it in the first place, even if someone else had dubbed it, there was pretty no chance of a dub of that show meant for daytime TV to be any good.(due to strict FCC standards)
 

darksteel6

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I hesitate to call 4Kids a "bad company", because I think there were a lot of good (if sometimes misguided) people working for or under them. I can't really say the same for the management side, though; Alfred Kahn in particular made a lot of questionable statements over the years, to say the least.
Agreed, I think far too anime Pokemon purists are living like it's still the late 90s and 2000s and still haven't gotten over 4kids "violating" their precious show. Kahn certainly said some bizarre stuff, but he wasn't like some cartoonishly evil supervillain like so many 4Kids haters made him out to be.
 

Dogasu

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darksteel6 said:
if it wasn't for them, Pokemon wouldn't have been anywhere near the cultural phenomenon it was.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. None of us do.

PaperSplash said:
I hesitate to call 4Kids a "bad company", because I think there were a lot of good (if sometimes misguided) people working for or under them.

I didn't say 4Kids didn't have any good people working with them. I said that 4Kids was a bad company.

Sometimes, good people work for bad companies.

darksteel6 said:
One Piece was bad but that was less their fault and more Toei's for forcing them to dub it in the first place

You have not provided any evidence of this (a link to some random dude's blog doesn't count), and Yash did a really good job of explaining why the timelines for that theory don't even work out in the first place.

darksteel6 said:
even if someone else had dubbed it, there was pretty no chance of a dub of that show meant for daytime TV to be any good.(due to strict FCC standards)

FUNimation did just that in 2007 -- release a dub that complied to TV-Y7 FV guidelines that then aired on American TV -- and the results were fantastic.

The thing that made the 4Kids One Piece dub so, so terrible wasn't the edits that had to be made to get the show TV-Y7 friendly. Things like Sanji's smoking, guns, blood, etc. were "problems" that would have had to be dealt with regardless of who was dubbing the show.

But it was actually the things that had absolutely nothing to do with the network censors that made their version of the show so unwatchable. The voice acting was absolutely atrocious; out of the entire cast I think Zolo was the only one who sounded remotely like an actual human. The story was a confusing mess because of the way 4Kids wrote it, with characters saying things in one episode that would then get contradicted in a later one (i.e. how Nami got the "Grand Line Fever"). The show couldn't go more than 30 seconds without someone blurting out an eye-rollingly bad joke about toilets or boogers or decaf coffee or Peter Piper or whatever the hell else 4Kids thought kids would find "funny." The editing was so choppy -- as in, a pan shot that was 7 seconds in the original would get trimmed down to 3 seconds, for example -- that it often felt like you were watching the show at 1.5 speed. The show's music was less a soundtrack as it was a collection of random two-second jingles that played back to back to back to back.

Even if you judge the show based simply on its own merits -- not as an adaptation of a pre-existing Japanese show, but as its own, standalone product -- it was still a terrible production. You can't blame any of that on the FCC.
 
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