Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

[Dogasu]

I really don't see how Ash saying he wants to meet ALL the Unova Pokemon is some kind of error or re-write.

It is a rewrite because this goal of meeting all the Isshu region pokemon is nowhere to be found in the Japanese version.

I also think they kept Delia's underwear obsession just for continuity.

I know that. Still a rewrite.

Likewise, TR are handled well in the dub. The one little pun they did with Woobat at the end was to show their transition.

Yes, let's focus on the one sentence that pretty much everyone else brought up and ignore the entire rest of the comparison where I praise the way the dub handled the trio.

All I have to say is... I'm confused.

Yeah, I guess I didn't word that clearly. I'll change it later.

The entire comparison felt extremely nitpicky to me. You never used to bother mentioning such minor line changes before.

I don't feel it's any more nitpicky than any of the others.

What stands out to you as being particularly nitpicky?

Which is the exact same thing their Japanese counterparts did... Hell, they act exactly like their old selves throughout the entire cave scene, proving that they haven't really changed at all.

The cave scene is a perfect example of just how much they've changed. They have absolutely no reaction to the news that they won't be reunited with their beloved pokemon whatsoever, something that's horribly out of character for the trio who used to cry their eyes out whenever they've had to say goodbye to their pokemon in the past.

Kojirou does have one line that sounds like Miki Shin'ichirou channeling the character's old personality, but every other line in that scene sounds much more subdued than we're used to.

Again, there is a transition.

The Rocket-Dan's transition is basically:

1) Have them do the same things they always did - steal the pokemon of the day, recite their motto, and get defeated by a bunch of untrained pokemon - but have them do all this while acting like a trio of lobotomy patients (BW 001 - BW 006)
2) Then, suddenly, they get downgraded to a minute or two per episode, stop trying to steal pokemon altogether, and generally act like Ginga-Dan expies (BW 007 - the mid teens)
3) Stop appearing in episodes altogether (late teens - ??)

Transition from "Sakaki doesn't know who we are" to "we're hanging out with him at the same party"...sure. Transition from their DP personalities to their BW "personalities"...not so much.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Frankly, I expected a lot of more Team Rocket bashing.

Dogasu I know you don't like them in Best Wishes! but why? They gotta plot and are doing something that contributes other then stealing Pikachu and being blasted off by the Pokemon of the Day and rinse repeat every ep.

 

[Ace Trainer Star]

Yeah, this one was kinda nitpicky. I mean I understand why you did it that way, you have to write something. But still..

 

[Musashi]

What stands out to you as being particularly nitpicky?

Ryuu and everyone else already pointed out the first one, but aside from that...

Ash: "That Unova sky's full of stars."

Unova Unova Unova Unova Unova!

Satoshi says the same thing that Ash does, minus the region name.

You already mentioned the region name is said twenty one times earlier. I didn't think it was really necessary to point out this one.

Meowth: "A Woobat. That name's got a nice ring to it."

Originally, the fact that Nyasu didn't know what Koromori was called was a lot clearer. His original line is Nyaruhodo! Aitsu wa Koromori to iu no nya (にゃるほど！あいつはコロモリと言うのニャー), or "That's right, nya. That thing's called "Koromori" nya."

I'm not seeing a difference here. It seems pretty clear to me Meowth didn't know what it was called too.

Ash: "Unova's got lots of cool Pokémon. Not just Zekrom. I'll meet them all."

Let's continue exaggerating, shall we? In the Japanese version, Satoshi states that the pokemon in the region are mysterious. He doesn't say anything about meeting any of them, much less all of them.

But at the beginning of the episode...

In the Japanese version, Satoshi just states that he wants to meet pokemon in the Isshu region. In the dub, he wants to meet all of them.

It's already been established that he wants to meet them earlier in the episode, so I'm not sure why you're bringing up that he doesn't talking about meeting them in that one line.

This is a trend I've noticed since late DP that you're picking more things out in the script. So many of your early/mid DP comparisons aren't very long, yet they contain just as many (if not more when you add in the Rockets) changes. I'm glad you're pointing out more line changes since I've felt you've ignored some worth pointing out earlier, but now it feels like every small difference is being noted.

On another note, there's a cool thing going on with the dub motto that I'm surprised you didn't point out:

Jessie: "The fiery destroyer, Jessie!"
James: "And with thunderous emotion, I am James!"

Jessie and James seem to be referring to Reshiram and Zekrom here. I think that's a pretty cool reference they snuck in there.

The cave scene is a perfect example of just how much they've changed. They have absolutely no reaction to the news that they won't be reunited with their beloved pokemon whatsoever, something that's horribly out of character for the trio who used to cry their eyes out whenever they've had to say goodbye to their pokemon in the past.

The difference here is that their Pokemon are already gone. They probably already had a goodbye with them off screen.

Kojirou does have one line that sounds like Miki Shin'ichirou channeling the character's old personality,

And Hayashibara sounds the same when she's holding the Monster Ball. I think all three of them sound like their old selves once they stop talking with Sakaki. Especially near the end when Musashi talks about them being successful and Kojiro and Nyasu agree. The way they said that sounded like just about every older episode.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Point of his site is listing of anime rewrites, and they are rewrites. It's only more detailed than before. What's the problem?

 

[Cybersai]

Point of his site is listing of anime rewrites, and they are rewrites. It's only more detailed than before. What's the problem?

His earlier comparisons never brought this stuff up.

TR's dialogue is always altered way back since the days of 4kids, yet he never brought up every single dialogue change from them before.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

His earlier comparisons never brought this stuff up.

TR's dialogue is always altered way back since the days of 4kids, yet he never brought up every single dialogue change from them before.

And that's a bad thing, because?

 

[dman_dustin]

I really don't see how Ash saying he wants to meet ALL the Unova Pokemon is some kind of error or re-write. We know Ash is going to see all the Unova Pokemon anyway, so what difference does it make?

I have to agree it felt like a real nitpick in most of this.

When someone says Best Wishes Dubbed has a lot of rewrites and is no different than the past series I expect something like:

Original: Oh no we're in trouble
Dub: Oh crap we're going to die.

Not something as trivial as: the number of referenced Pokemon in a line.

To me considering Satoshi/Ash's character there is no difference to me between "I to meet Pokemon in the Isshu region" and "I want to meet all the Unova Pokemon."

Also given how excited Ash/Satoshi is in this new region, it probably would be in character for either of them to say: That Unova sky's full of stars.

The only rewrites, which I would count is: Delia's underwear line, Iris' jiggly line (assuming she said something different in the original), and maybe to a lesser extent, Ash saying to "Iris" that he wants to meet all the Unova Pokemon you know instead of Satoshi saying "they are mysterious"

Otherwise, all the other ones seem kind of nitpicky to call them "rewrites" of unimaginable horror, which is what seems to be implied with the line "but from what I've seen, the rewrites are as plentiful as ever."

I think in order for it to be a rewrite, it has to be close to being drastically different. If the context roughly remains the same, I wouldn't count it as a rewrite just the "English" language being the "English" language or if you don't like that, the dub being a dub.

 

[Hellion]

I think in order for it to be a rewrite, it has to be close to being drastically different. If the context roughly remains the same, I wouldn't count it as a rewrite just the "English" language being the "English" language or if you don't like that, the dub being a dub.

Or... you know, he's the one doing the comparaison so he should get to say what constitutes or not a rewrite... While I don't think that there's a major difference between the original and the lines that Dogasu compared, they're still a difference and it's fair game for him to point it out... since that's the entire purpose of what he's doing.[/SERIOUS EDITORIAL POSITION]

 

[Iteru]

Or... you know, he's the one doing the comparaison so he should get to say what constitutes or not a rewrite... While I don't think that there's a major difference between the original and the lines that Dogasu compared, they're still a difference and it's fair game for him to point it out... since that's the entire purpose of what he's doing.[/SERIOUS EDITORIAL POSITION]

Exactly, just because it is a small difference, doesn't mean that it isn't a difference in my opinion.

In fact, seeing as they are differences, why are people so against them as "nitpicky"? I mean, I read the comparisons to learn about the differences, while it seems as some might be going just to see what Dogasu is "complaining" about "this time around".

Plus it isn't as if Dogasu has been nitpicky before. He even openly admits that in some of his comparisons that a certain edit he is mentioning is nitpicky. Really don't see what is so bad about it this time around, if it is bad at all.

 

[Kazamatsuri]

The entire comparison felt extremely nitpicky to me. You never used to bother mentioning such minor line changes before..

I think part of the reason is that Dogasu know far more Japanese than he did when he first started doing comparisons. Also keep in mind that pointing out something that isn't translated perfectly is not the same thing as complaining about it. Being nitpicky would be basically going into a page-long rant about every little edit that ever took place in the series.

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

Well, there is still that line where Oak talked about "meeting" new Pokemon rather than "catching" that Dogasu seems to be implying. I'd like to see what he meant to say.

 

[Musashi]

I think part of the reason is that Dogasu know far more Japanese than he did when he first started doing comparisons.

Which is why I was comparing it to his DP comparisons.

Also keep in mind that pointing out something that isn't translated perfectly is not the same thing as complaining about it. Being nitpicky would be basically going into a page-long rant about every little edit that ever took place in the series.

I don't think of nitpicky meaning that, and I never said he was complaining too much. I just don't think its necessary to list every single little thing.

 

[Kazamatsuri]

I don't think of nitpicky meaning that, and I never said he was complaining too much. I just don't think its necessary to list every single little thing.

Well another thing to consider, which Dogasu can explain much better than I can, is that the level of complaining in these episode comparisons are proportionate to standards and expectations. For example, it does not serve a purpose to complain about an episode of Advanced Battle keeping only 15% of the music, given 4Kids track record. But on the other hand, it is very relevant to complain about the music in a TPCI episode that keeps as much as 70% of the original BGM in the event that the episode in question comes right after one that left the entire soundtrack unaltered.

Another example would be the infamous underwear gag. In three different episodes, right before Ash took off for his journeys in Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn respectively, Delia explicitly reminds him to change his underwear, or in the case of The Rivalry Revival, his "you-know-what." Of course nobody needs to be reminded that this is the first time the underwear gag was brought up in a TPCI episode. I personally thought it was done better than under 4Kids. For one thing, Delia mentioned two other things among it, and unlike 4Kids, she didn't explicitly remind Ash to 'change his underwear. Nonetheless, we didn't expect TPCI to bring underwear back into the mold (pun) and therefore, it is worth bringing up and complaining about.

 

[Zeta]

I think part of the reason is that Dogasu know far more Japanese than he did when he first started doing comparisons.

I think part of the reason is that as the anime goes on longer, it's becoming more and more written for an international audience than a Japanese one - thus less to cover, so only options to fill up webpage space is minor nitpicks.

 

[Adamant]

Well, there is still that line where Oak talked about "meeting" new Pokemon rather than "catching" that Dogasu seems to be implying. I'd like to see what he meant to say.

In the original, Okido said he'd be looking forward to hearing about any rare and unusual Pokemon Satoshi met, while in the English dub, he says he's looking forward to hearing about anyone and everyone Ash comes across. That explain the differences better? The line is definitely a rewrite.

Also, there's nothing wrong with being thorough, people

I think part of the reason is that as the anime goes on longer, it's becoming more and more written for an international audience than a Japanese one - thus less to cover, so only options to fill up webpage space is minor nitpicks.

Aside from dropping actual Japanese text and episodes specifically based around holidays (which was probably just as much because of the Porygon incident shifting damn near all the seasonal episodes months away from the actual holiday, and them not wanting to have that happen again - they haven't done any Christmas-centered episodes since, either), the amount of edits has been relatively stable throughout the series.

 

[dman_dustin]

Or... you know, he's the one doing the comparaison so he should get to say what constitutes or not a rewrite... While I don't think that there's a major difference between the original and the lines that Dogasu compared, they're still a difference and it's fair game for him to point it out... since that's the entire purpose of what he's doing.[/SERIOUS EDITORIAL POSITION]

True, but the difference is negligible, in my opinion.

It's like these two example statements:

I'm going to meet her.
I'm going to meet Jasmine.

Now obviously her could refer to anyone, but a few moments later it's clear that her refers to Jasmine.

The only difference is one was a bit more explicit.

Unless I had a secret affair with Jasmine, or like some episodes of Pokemon I don't know her name prior. I can't really see the difference between the two. Or why one can't be more explicit than the other statement.

So Ash saying he's going meet Pokemon. Compared to "I'm going to meet all the Unova Pokemon." Is just as negligible.

Now let's look at Ash's character overall. Why would he be so picky and say "I only want to meet some Pokemon in the Unova" sounds to me like Ash knows he's going to run into a real nasty Pokemon and doesn't want to meet it. Judging by Ash's character he isn't going to be prejudice/discriminatory like apparently his original statement appears to imply.

In the original, Okido said he'd be looking forward to hearing about any rare and unusual Pokemon Satoshi met, while in the English dub, he says he's looking forward to hearing about anyone and everyone Ash comes across. That explain the differences better? The line is definitely a rewrite.

Except to Ash wouldn't any Pokemon he's never seen before be "Rare and Unusual" while I admit I guess there's a difference between the two, but again comes off as prejudice/discriminatory.

Aside from viewer obviousness, what makes Cobalion more rare and unusual then Patrat, when to Ash at first everything is going to be rare and unusual?

Then again why should it matter in the end? As far as we know Ash hasn't even contacted Professor Oak yet.

What he's only going to contact Oak about some giant electric blasting Pokemon like Zekrom. Hell he called Oak about Turtwig evolving, I'm sure Ash would call oak about his captures and adventures, but he hasn't done that yet. Who knows when Oak will reappear in the Best Wishes series.

 

[winstein]

I noticed that you (Dogasu) has a distaste on the new Team Rocket, and even call them "lobotomized robot zombies". The question is why do you like their comedic side? What makes them likeable at that state?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Hellion]

True, but the difference is negligible, in my opinion.

But you're able to base your opinion on whether or not a difference is negligible or not because it's being brought to your attention, which is what Dogasu does. He provides the facts by telling you what was said in Japanese and comparing it with the dub, including what you perceive as minor negligible changes. There's a difference, he points it out, that's the mission statement of his site. I fail to see the problem.

 

[Noivern]

When the difference is insignificant, I don't think that you have to say that it's an edit. I would rather, err... put it in the "minor notes" section. In the end, it's the (almost) same thing. Nothing's changed. I read through your comparision, and I have to say, you are being nitpicky, aren't you?

I think very minor line changes need not apply.

Ash: "I've decided my next journey will be right here."
Delia and Professor Oak: "Huh?"
Ash: "For sure! I wanna meet all the Pokémon from Unova! And I'll make a bunch of new friends, too!"
Pikachu: "Pika!"


In the Japanese version, Satoshi just states that he wants to meet pokemon in the Isshu region. In the dub, he wants to meet all of them.

I object to this statement. In the end, he's going to do so anyway. Pointing out this only adds to the page's length without doing anything significant.

Delia: "Pikachu, take good care of Ash."
Pikachu: "Pika Pika!"
Professor Oak: "And call us from time to time. I'll look forward to hearing about the new Pokémon you've met. How does that sound?"


It sounds like a rewrite to me! In the Japanese version, Orchid-Hakase asks Satoshi to call him and tell him about all the unusual and rare pokemon he meets, not just the one he catches.

Met Pokémon include unusual and rare stuff. It's common sense.

Delia: "Where's your handkerchief? Are your clothes packed? Do you have clean underwear?"


I never realized it before now, but in the five seasons TPCI's had the show, Delia's only shown up...once? TPCI didn't bring back Delia's creepy obsession with her son's underwear then, and I just kind of assumed that it was a thing of the past. Looks like I was wrong!

That belongs to side notes. Also, it also conveys the same meaning anyway.

Iris: "Whoa, no way! Pikachu!? You've got to be the sweetest thing ever! It's so cute! And those jiggling cheeks. Can't find anything this jiggly in Unova."

Anyway, the reason I brought this up is because of the word Unova. The scriptwriter for this episode must have had a hard on for the word or something because he or she uses it every chance he gets. I actually counted, because I'm a sad person with nothing better to do, and found that TPCI uses the word "Unova" twenty-one times. The Japanese version, in contrast, only uses "Isshu" about a dozen times.

Ash: "That Unova sky's full of stars."


Unova Unova Unova Unova Unova!

Satoshi says the same thing that Ash does, minus the region name.

It's the same meaning. Don't tell me that every count of "Unova" inserted is going to end up in your lists...

Ash: "Unova's got lots of cool Pokémon. Not just Zekrom. I'll meet them all."


Let's continue exaggerating, shall we? In the Japanese version, Satoshi states that the pokemon in the region are mysterious. He doesn't say anything about meeting any of them, much less all of them.

Hmm... that's a justified one. This one can stay, but... it's just and addition.

Ash: "Iris left early, y'know? I wonder where she could've gone."
Pikachu: "Pika Pika."


Satoshi tells Pikachu that Iris was already gone when they woke up. In the dub, however, she "left early," which isn't quite as explicit.

No. It's the same meaning.

You need to split out the motto part into a side note of its own.

Ash: "What's that?"
Iris: "It's a Woobat!"
Meowth: "A Woobat. That name's got a nice ring to it."
Jessie: "Nice ring is a good thing."


And just like that, TPCI slips back into DP mode. That didn't take long.

Just a few lines out of quite a lot... I'll pass.

Hmm... I noticed that it's quite a nitpicky comparision. Dropping all of these should save you a lot of work.