Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Dogasu is often never critical of TPCi dub scripts

...

Remember how, back in the Diamond & Pearl days, the Rocket trio was dubbed horribly? And how the majority of their lines were written in a way that it was hard to know what the hell they were talking about if you weren't already familiar with what they said in the original? Well, this line from Meowth feels like one of those old rewrites.

Here's a page from the handbook on writing dialogue for the Black & White Rockets: One, have James start all of his sentences with the word "right." Two, only use Meowth to complete his teammate's sentences. Three, make sure their exchange doesn't sound anything like a conversation that people in real life would have, ever.

It's still hard for me to stomach the voice TPCI decided to give Bel. Bianca sounds way too old and doesn't have half the energy as her Japanese counterpart, making her running gags even more annoying than they were in Japan. I'm also a bit put off by the dubbers' insistence on having Burgundy speak "French" every chance they can. Cabernet speaks zero French in the Japanese version yet the dub decides to have her produce some French-like sounds every other line. And then they turn around and remove Dent's use of the word mariage from Cilan's speech? What the hell?

Since Nyasu is back to being in character, the dub has decided to go back to writing him the way they did back in the Sinnoh days. Which means hearing him say "dig it" and "lugs" a million times. This is also an episode that features a lot of Pokémon talking Pokémon speak to each other, so we're forced to hear the dub's voice "talent" make ridiculous noises at each other for large portions of this episode. It's not as bad as, say, Piplup's crying, but it's still a pain to sit through.

...

Yes, that shows how poor his judgment is on voice acting, right there. He shouldn't say a word about someone's acting when he doesn't even get his facts straight.

Do you honestly think that Dogasu accused him of being a chain smoker, just because Dogasu said that the character he's voicing is sounds like one?

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

...

Do you honestly think that Dogasu accused him of being a chain smoker, just because the character he's voicing is sounds like one?
Right?

I'm well aware of his hatred of TPCi's Team Rocket dialogue, but he fails to account for the fact Ash & co. also got their fair share of rewrites in the TPCi Era just like they did in the 4Kids Era- he glosses over all of that (see my link above) but pretends only 4Kids did it, and that's one of many things bugging me lately about his analyses.

No, I just think Dogasu doesn't have a good ear for voice acting at all, to be frank. Sure, it's a gruff and raspy voice, but that doesn't mean dub Butch sounds like a smoker- maybe to him and a few others like you, but not to other people either. It's subjective, of course, but just saying.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

I'm well aware of his hatred of TPCi's Team Rocket dialogue, but he fails to account for the fact Ash & co. also got their fair share of rewrites in the TPCi Era just like they did in the 4Kids Era-

Not true. You can look at his DP and BW comparisons.

he glosses over all of that (see my link above) but pretends only 4Kids did it, and that's one of many things bugging me lately about his analyses.

Most of his comparisons other than Kanto ones are not really great at details like that. And he don't list most of small edits like that. For example, compare this to this. And there is even more: For example, May's line "truth is, I don't like pokemon" should be "truth is, I don't really like pokemon that much", but it's not listed in both of them.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

Not true. You can look at his DP and BW comparisons.

I have looked at all of them, he left out tons and tons of changes TPCi made to the script in DP and BW, solely to say things like "I guess PUSA couldn't resist punching 4Kids in the gut!" as one example of his bias in "The Champ Twins!"

You want another fact? He didn't review mid or late BW's dubs, period.

So yeah, what's "not true" are his skewed and biased comparisons, if anything.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

I have looked at all of them, he left out tons and tons of changes TPCi made to the script in DP and BW

And he also left out tons and tons of changes 4Kids made to the script in OS and AG...

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

Most of his comparisons other than Kanto ones are not really great at details like that. And he don't list most of small edits like that. For example, compare this to this. And there is even more: For example, May's line "truth is, I don't like pokemon" should be "truth is, I don't really like pokemon that much", but it's not listed in both of them.

I know that, which is why I'm questioning why he insists on being merciless as of late in his compares.

And of course, TPCi can still do things like having Dawn say "You've just gotta keep on truckin'" or "I'm so psyched" which are script changes in the DP dub's first episode too among the dub-only gay-added joke between Brock and Ash in the subsequent episode, but yet again, both sites fail to mention those sorts of things.

And he left out tons and tons of changes 4Kids made to the script in OS and AG...

And he also left out tons and tons of changes TPCi made to the scripts in XY and SM, which he didn't even review yet! Your point is...?

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

And he also left out tons and tons of changes TPCi made to the scripts in XY and SM, which he didn't even review yet! Your point is...?

The point is, he don't hate 4Kids dub as you claimed.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

The point is, he don't hate 4Kids dub as you claimed.

He seemed to hate 4Kids dub to me, from the way he speaks about it, or at least that's the impression I was getting from him- if that's not the case, then I apologize, but I simply don't like it when he turns the other cheek when TPCi's dub is just as guilty of its own script rewrites (and not just for TR) as 4Kids was.

 

[kantoskies]

I feel like you're forgetting:

Dogasu's Backpack isn't a 4Kids dub vs. TPCI dub site. What it does do is compare the 4Kids dub to the Japanese version and also the TPCI dub to the Japanese version. The English verison's faithfulness (or lack thereof) to the original is what I'm interested in here.

If it seems like I'm more harsh on the 4Kids dub lately then probably only because I'm currently working exclusively on 4Kids-era episodes. If I was doing a new Sun & Moon comparison every week I'd probably get shit for ragging on TPCI all the time too.

At the end of the day I have no love for either dub and therefore have no interest whatsoever in proving which one is "better."　That's not a debate I'm interested in whatsoever.

While this isn't a knock on Dogasu or anything, I think his older comparisons weren't as in-depth as his newer ones. I don't think he's done a comparison for a TPCi episode in years while his new 4Kids ones are more in-depth. And please don't go find the one comparison that contradicts this as a "gotcha", I'm speaking in broad trends here and I really don't have the energy to argue how every punctuation mark isn't Dogasu secretly praising TPCi for the same mistakes 4Kids made.

And do you want to know why he hasn't done a comparison for anything past season 14? Because the dub was literally so bad that it made him move away from it.

I get you hate TPCi's dub. I do too. So does he. So do a large amount of people on this site/community. We agree with you that the dub is not good. But it seems like you read too much into tiny details to try and paint some of us as TPCi-apologists because we don't write 7 paragraph-long thinkpieces on each terrible line of dialogue.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

I feel like you're forgetting:

While this isn't a knock on Dogasu or anything, I think his older comparisons weren't as in-depth as his newer ones. I don't think he's done a comparison for a TPCi episode in years while his new 4Kids ones are more in-depth. And please don't go find the one comparison that contradicts this as a "gotcha", I'm speaking in broad trends here and I really don't have the energy to argue how every punctuation mark isn't Dogasu secretly praising TPCi for the same mistakes 4Kids made.

And do you want to know why he hasn't done a comparison for anything past season 14? Because the dub was literally so bad that it made him move away from it.

I get you hate TPCi's dub. I do too. So does he. So do a large amount of people on this site/community. We agree with you that the dub is not good. But it seems like you read too much into tiny details to try and paint some of us as TPCi-apologists because we don't write 7 paragraph-long thinkpieces on each terrible line of dialogue.

Then it's fair: I had you guys pegged wrong, my bad, but it just felt to me like people are forgetting the current dub still does its own dumb things these days with the script, so I wanted to point that out- it hasn't changed, so to speak.

 

[ii kanji]

Love or hate Dogasu: here is a grown adult with a job/life/.etc who regularly gives up hours of his week to provide the rest of us with information about the franchise which we simply cannot get anywhere else... for nothing! He is not being paid to do this! (Unless he is in which case I take it all back you bastard.)

I don't have a strong opinion about the issue being discussed, but I do feel strongly that it is not cool to rag on someone like this. If you have a valid criticism, sure, point it out in a fair way which he can respond to. But ultimately he's just another member of the forums, isn't he?

 

[MRStealth64]

I'm still not getting where this concept that everyone loves the TPCi dub is coming from. My impression is that a good portion of the community (myself included) have long given up on the dub entirely.

 

[Yash]

Dogasu agreed with my assessment when XY started, after TPCI went back and “fixed” the first two episodes to include dub music, that the Pokémon dub was “a lost cause.”

Yeah, he sure loves TPCI and their work.

The reality is (probably, I won’t speak for him) that the early 4Kids episodes are nowhere near as scrutinized as the TPCI dub - by the time Battle Frontier premiered, the Japanese versions with fansubs were far more accessible, and that’s even moreso now. For a lot of viewers though, I would imagine the 4Kids dub of the original series and even Advanced Generation is “the show,” taken at face value. I have several friends who had no problem with the dub from seasons 1-8, and switched to the Japanese version once the voice cast changed.

If you take for granted that most of the fan base thinks the TPCI dub sucks, or at least is worse than what 4Kids produced, then the 4Kids dub (which had its own share of changes, poor casting and rewrites etc. and a LOT more in the way of paint edits and footage cuts) is going to make for a more interesting topic, plain and simple. It’s not an attack on the 4Kids dub and I don’t think Dogasu would ever berate someone for enjoying it for what it is.

I ran One Piece Uncensored for a few years during 4Kids’ run of that show, and I had to grow to that same approach - I absolutely hated that dub. But if someone did like the dub, horrible and mangled as I saw it, that was their business and not mine. Of course, that was far less prevalent...

 

[Dogasu]

Again, I don't have any love for *either* dub, and if I seem extra harsh on 4Kids now it's only because #Kanto2017, by its very nature, focuses solely on 4Kids stuff. Talk to me about my anti-TPCI bias when #Alola2036 rolls around.

Also, two things real quick:

1) One of the reasons my older comparisons weren't that in-depth is because, quite frankly, my Japanese was kind of shit up until a few years ago. I'm sure there are actually tons of rewrites in Advanced Generation and Diamond & Pearl that I never reported on simply because I didn't have the language skills needed to pick up on them at the time.

2) There are many reasons I haven't done any TPCI stuff past Black & White but one of the main ones is because everyone else is kind of already kind of doing it for me. Look at any current day review thread; if there's any scene cut, visual edit, or weird rewrite in any given episode then people jump on that immediately. Meanwhile, we've apparently gone 20 years without peole realizing that "The Evolution Solution" doesn't actually take place on the Seafoam Islands.

To me, at least, focusing on these older episodes that the overwhelming majority of fans have only ever seen dubbed is a much better use of both my time and yours.

(also I get zero money from any work I do on my site)

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

If you take for granted that most of the fan base thinks the TPCI dub sucks, or at least is worse than what 4Kids produced, then the 4Kids dub (which had its own share of changes, poor casting and rewrites etc. and a LOT more in the way of paint edits and footage cuts) is going to make for a more interesting topic, plain and simple. It’s not an attack on the 4Kids dub and I don’t think Dogasu would ever berate someone for enjoying it for what it is.

And that's fine, but my point is, you have said it all in "most of the fan base" not being represented on this site. That doesn't make everyone that is not here an ignorant fool blind to the faults of the 4Kids Era, so to speak, but maybe those people have legitimate reasons for that opinion as well.

No one is in doubt that what you're stating is true, nor am I, but I will argue there's people here in turn who turn a blind eye to TPCi's dub still doing all the same sorts of things while chastising 4Kids' dub when it did its own, so that is something I felt the need to point out.

And if Dogasu wants to "rag on" the dub in general, I don't see why his criticism of it isn't also above in turn, getting criticism, just saying- that goes for either Era of the dub, too.

(As for me, I can enjoy the 4Kids dub for what it is, I'm just glad I'm not being berated for that in the end, which was my concern all along over here- I'm not blind to its faults, but I just felt like I wasn't even allowed to find it fun to watch reading through the last several compares of his, which is why I spoke up to offer my two cents).

 

[ii kanji]

I'm sure there are actually tons of rewrites in Advanced Generation and Diamond & Pearl that I never reported on simply because I didn't have the language skills needed to pick up on them at the time.

Ok, next project: #Rocket2018. Just compare/redo all the important Rocket episodes ever.

 

[kantoskies]

Do you want to kill him? Because no one could make it out of a marathon of TPCi Rockets alive, or at least sane

 

[MizuTaipu]

I guess, when they first started dubbing the show, 4Kids equated Meowth with the "dirty New York street cat" cartoon trope? 4Kids could've rewrote a line in this episode saying that Meowth watched a lot of gangster films while learning the human language and that's how he acquired that accent for an explanation. In any case, his dub voice is definitely my least favorite of the main characters.

Looking forward to the wave of brand new comparisons for the rest of the year!

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

So, what is that whole "Moon is round" thing and why it's somehow related to Nyasu?

 

[technickal]

So, what is that whole "Moon is round" thing and why it's somehow related to Nyasu?

Well, it's featured more prominently in the "Meowth's Song" ending, as well as the original versions of Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns. It seems to be a Japanese philosophy thing, and in this context I think it's supposed to idiomatically mean "why is the world is still moving". As in "why is the world is still moving, even though I learned to talk and walk on two legs for naught, I was rejected by the love of my life and had nowhere left to term than a bumbling evil team". That also seems to be how the dubbers interpreted it, given their equivalent line. As for the specific connection to Meowth, apparently the bakeneko, a creature in Japanese folklore that the species is partially based off of, has a spiritual connection to the moon.