Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

[PaperSplash]

Interview with former 4Kids translator Paul Taylor.

He wasn't directly responsible for the rewrites or censorship but there is quite a bit of apologia for it, so be warned.

Most shockingly though he reveals he made up localized character names whenever they weren't in the style guide, which took even his supervisors aback. Apparently only a handful of his made-up names made it into the final dubs though; many seemingly got changed (again).

 

[Poke Trey]

So, it wasn't his fault mostly?

 

[PaperSplash]

So, it wasn't his fault mostly?

It wasn't. Mostly.

 

[c la fet]

Interview with former 4Kids translator Paul Taylor.

He wasn't directly responsible for the rewrites or censorship but there is quite a bit of apologia for it, so be warned.

Most shockingly though he reveals he made up localized character names whenever they weren't in the style guide, which took even his supervisors aback. Apparently only a handful of his made-up names made it into the final dubs though; many seemingly got changed (again).

Can you give the timecode please
Edit : Nvm.I've found it, it's around 35:00

 

[PaperSplash]

Can you give the timecode please
Edit : Nvm.I've found it, it's around 35:00

15:00 is where he talks about making up names that weren't in the style guide.

 

[RustyTrubbish]

So, it wasn't his fault mostly?

Not to sound disrespectful to 4Kids' staff but damn, they really like shifting the blame away from themselves don't they? Whenever one of them gives an interview or podcast or any information about dubbing the series in general, they always seem to find a way to excuse the dub's flaws, and their unapologetic behavior just turns me off.

Also related to the site and kind of a nitpick, but can the PokeTsume stuff be unpinned from the top of the main page? The series ended almost a month ago after all.

 

[snowmint]

I still like the podcast revealing intriguing stuff.

 

[BigDocFan]

Episode Comparison for Get Along, Little Pokémon is now available to read

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/02_orange/ep101.html

 

[MizuTaipu]

The Marumine/Electrode episode towards the end of the Orange Islands saga having a similar Western aesthetic only makes this episode stand out even less.

 

[PaperSplash]

I find it interesting that the information present in the Thunders/Jolteon Pokédex entry in both languages comes directly from the Japanese Pokémon Red and Green games while the part the dub added in comes from their western counterparts Pokémon Red and Blue (which were in turn based on the updated Blue version from Japan). 4Kids wasn't making stuff up out of thin air like they usually do; the dub writer clearly did actual research here. But the question is why? Did someone at 4Kids realize the first Japanese Pokémon games and the first ones that came out overseas had completely different Pokédex entries, and this was their way of compromising?

Also, just an FYI, Dogasu, but the name "Ethan" didn't actually pop up in the games until the Pokémon Gold & Silver remakes in 2010. It's a funny observation but the timeframe you've given is misleading.

I think the fact that the Rocket trio are already comedic villains makes the dub writers more comfortable with injecting their own sense of humor into their dialogue, for better or worse; it almost feels like they just can't resist the urge to "punch up" everything when they're on screen. And yeah, maybe the fact that some of their banter is genuinely difficult to translate makes it easier in their eyes to just bulldoze over everything.

 

[Poke Trey]

I find it interesting that the information present in the Thunders/Jolteon Pokédex entry in both languages comes directly from the Japanese Pokémon Red and Green games while the part the dub added in comes from their western counterparts Pokémon Red and Blue (which were in turn based on the updated Blue version from Japan). 4Kids wasn't making stuff up out of thin air like they usually do; the dub writer clearly did actual research here. But the question is why? Did someone at 4Kids realize the first Japanese Pokémon games and the first ones that came out overseas had completely different Pokédex entries, and this was their way of compromising?

Also, just an FYI, Dogasu, but the name "Ethan" didn't actually pop up in the games until the Pokémon Gold & Silver remakes in 2010. It's a funny observation but the timeframe you've given is misleading.

I think the fact that the Rocket trio are already comedic villains makes the dub writers more comfortable with injecting their own sense of humor into their dialogue, for better or worse; it almost feels like they just can't resist the urge to "punch up" everything when they're on screen. And yeah, maybe the fact that some of their banter is genuinely difficult to translate makes it easier in their eyes to just bulldoze over everything.

I always assume that when it come to TR specifically. Everyone else seems to have the right dialogue, but they really like to give the others something else entirely.

 

[PaperSplash]

The Marumine/Electrode episode towards the end of the Orange Islands saga having a similar Western aesthetic only makes this episode stand out even less.

And yeah, looking back I've occasionally mixed up the two in my head myself.

 

[Everclear]

As someone else pointed out Ethan wasn't chosen as Gold's default name until HG/SS came out about 10 years after this episode was dubbed, so 4Kids naming the character-of-the-day Ethan didn't clash with the games or anything. It's weird that they changed his name from Ford to Ethan at all, but maybe 4Kids thought Ethan made more sense as a first name than Ford? Who knows.

Also forgive me but I'm gonna mini-rant about this part:

I looked around and couldn't find terms like "Soldier Spear (Beedrill)" used anywhere else so I think this is information exclusive to this animated series...? Regardless of where it comes from it's an interesting collection of tidbits that dub viewers unfortunately aren't privy to since 4Kids always cuts all these post-episode segments out.

1) I personally believe this information wasn't really that interesting or relevant anyway since it never gets brought up again in future episodes no matter how many Beedrill swarms we'll see later on. That bit of random trivia just doesn't seem all-that noteworthy.

2) The main thing that bugs me here is the part towards the end where you expressed pity for dub viewers. You've made similar comments in dozens of past comparisons about how you feel bad for viewers of the 4Kids dub because of the stock art used in the Who's That Pokemon segment or because some music gets replaced or various other changes, and it kind of triggers me because it comes across as somewhat insincere given your apathy towards the 4Kids dub in general, as well as borderline condescending and sort of like a humble-brag. It's like you're saying "I was so fortunate to have seen the original Japanese version and enjoyed all the awesome things about it that the dub lacked, I sure feel bad for all the people who weren't as lucky as me~".

Yes we know that 4Kids changed a lot of things, but the seemingly perfidious concern about what dub watchers missed out on seems a tad unnecessary. I guess I just wish that the episode comparisons were less opinionated in general and just stuck to hard facts, but it's your site so I should just respect it I guess.

 

[Dogasu]

Also related to the site and kind of a nitpick, but can the PokeTsume stuff be unpinned from the top of the main page? The series ended almost a month ago after all.

The plan is to remove it when the Blu-ray comes out next month. I have some more interview translations and other content I want to add so I think it's worth keeping it at the top of the site at least until then.

It's like you're saying "I was so fortunate to have seen the original Japanese version and enjoyed all the awesome things about it that the dub lacked, I sure feel bad for all the people who weren't as lucky as me~".

I'm sorry these comments on my site trigger you but I can assure you I'm not looking down on fans who only have access to the English dub or anything like that. I just think it sucks that dub fans don't get as much as fans in Japan get, that's all.

I don't personally like the English dub of Pokémon, sure, but that doesn't mean I can't also think about those fans who actually do.

 

[darksteel6]

Interesting comparison, I think the name Ford should've been kept, i'm not a big western guy so the reference would've gone over my head regardless of his name. Personally I don't see what's so horrifying about Meowth using the word "juicy", he's referring to the fact that Magnemite make a lot of electricity AKA "juice".

I don't mind the trio's dialogue being rewritten personally.

 

[snowmint]

Why did Matt Sussman leave the show again?

 

[Yash]

My guess with the Ford -> Ethan change is that they might have felt weird about him being named directly after a real person, so they instead changed it to the name of a character from the movie. I recall the directors of Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame talking about how they wanted to name Quasimodo's gargoyle buddies Anthony, Charles and Lon after Anthony Quinn, Charles Laughton and Lon Chaney, the three "original" Quasimodo film actors (from the 1956, 1939 and 1923 movies, respectively), but Disney's lawyers were concerned about blowback from their estates, which is how they came up with the names Victor and Hugo, being that Hugo was long dead and the author of the very work they were adapting. (oddly, the third gargoyle was named LaVerne as a homage to LaVerne Andrews of the Andrews Sisters, meaning they named one after a real non-Victor Hugo person anyway, but maybe since the reference wasn't specific to the source material they felt they could get away with it?)

Only other thing I can think of is they didn't want a character with the same name as a major American car company.

Either of those explanations aside, it is certainly just as likely (if not moreso) they just pulled it out of their asses. Lord knows I learned from doing One Piece Uncensored 4Kids loved to make changes just for the sake of making changes.

Also, fun unrelated trivia regarding Coil/Magnemite - it is one of only three Pokemon (and their evolutions) that is naturally (as in, no trading or transferring from other games) obtainable in every single Pokemon game, or at least a version of them (so not holding being a version exclusive against them, as Magnemite is only obtainable in the original White version and not Black). The other two are Koduck/Psyduck and Koiking/Magikarp. Pretty crazy that it holds that honor over Pikachu, huh?

 

[darksteel6]

My guess with the Ford -> Ethan change is that they might have felt weird about him being named directly after a real person, so they instead changed it to the name of a character from the movie. I recall the directors of Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame talking about how they wanted to name Quasimodo's gargoyle buddies Anthony, Charles and Lon after Anthony Quinn, Charles Laughton and Lon Chaney, the three "original" Quasimodo film actors (from the 1956, 1939 and 1923 movies, respectively), but Disney's lawyers were concerned about blowback from their estates, which is how they came up with the names Victor and Hugo, being that Hugo was long dead and the author of the very work they were adapting. (oddly, the third gargoyle was named LaVerne as a homage to LaVerne Andrews of the Andrews Sisters, meaning they named one after a real non-Victor Hugo person anyway, but maybe since the reference wasn't specific to the source material they felt they could get away with it?)

Only other thing I can think of is they didn't want a character with the same name as a major American car company.

Either of those explanations aside, it is certainly just as likely (if not moreso) they just pulled it out of their asses. Lord knows I learned from doing One Piece Uncensored 4Kids loved to make changes just for the sake of making changes.

Huh that actually makes sense, I believe Honda's name in Yugioh was changed to Tristan for similar reasons, sure Honda is a Japanese car company but 4Kids lawyers probably didn't want to take any chances(especially not after legal threats from Uri Geller had forced them to retire Kadabra and Alakazam from the Pokemon TCG as one of their original Japanese names is basically "Urigellar")

To be fair to 4Kids most of the changes done to their dub of One Piece were specifically mandated by Network Standards and Practices(this is proven by the 4Kids King of the Pirates DVD release which actually has an uncut scene involving a gun that was cut from the broadcast version of the episode)like changing alcohol to fruit juice and changing realistic guns to water guns. After Columbine S&P got real sensitive about anything involving realistic firearms depicted on shows aimed at kids(one episode of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog "The Magnificent Sonic" got banned from reruns for a few years after the tragedy due to it's excessive gun use)so the days of shows like Batman The Animated Series being able to get away with real guns(albeit mostly modeled after older guns from the 30s and 40s like the Thompson)were long gone and depicting smoking in a kids show soon become a major no-no as well after the whole Joe Camel controversy in the late 90s(basically more kids recognized him then Mickey Mouse and courts accused Camel of using their mascot Joe to entice kids into smoking with his "Cool" cartoon persona and after they were forced to retire Joe you saw a crackdown on depictions of smoking in anything aimed at kids).

 

[Yash]

I'm speaking more to the name changes 4Kids made with One Piece (although there were plenty of pointless visual/dialogue/etc. edits too), like changing Trace to Ace or Cobra to Nebra.

Frankly I'm also not convinced they couldn't have gotten away with more considering their dub of Shaman King, while still heavily localized, got through almost completely unscathed as far as censorship went, but that was always less of an issue for me. One Piece was a bad fit for Saturday mornings but neither Standards and Practices nor Toei (who often also catches strays for the 4Kids dub being terrible) forced them to rescore the show with ill-fitting music, give terrible voice direction and casting choices, rewrite so much of the scripts with childish potty humor and forced puns, skip over entire story arcs so they could introduce the more marketable Chopper sooner, etc. etc. I could go on but I'm sure I've already put out a million words on the interwebs about how I don't think 4Kids deserves much benefit of the doubt for how most of their dubs turned out, One Piece or otherwise.

 

[darksteel6]

I'm speaking more to the name changes 4Kids made with One Piece (although there were plenty of pointless visual/dialogue/etc. edits too), like changing Trace to Ace or Cobra to Nebra.

Frankly I'm also not convinced they couldn't have gotten away with more considering their dub of Shaman King, while still heavily localized, got through almost completely unscathed as far as censorship went, but that was always less of an issue for me. One Piece was a bad fit for Saturday mornings but neither Standards and Practices nor Toei (who often also catches strays for the 4Kids dub being terrible) forced them to rescore the show with ill-fitting music, give terrible voice direction and casting choices, rewrite so much of the scripts with childish potty humor and forced puns, skip over entire story arcs so they could introduce the more marketable Chopper sooner, etc. etc. I could go on but I'm sure I've already put out a million words on the interwebs about how I don't think 4Kids deserves much benefit of the doubt for how most of their dubs turned out, One Piece or otherwise.

I think for One Piece they do as Toei did have to approve every single change they did and they were perfectly OK with all of it. If I had to guess the reason for skipping episodes it might be because Dragonball GT had gotten pretty good ratings despite skipping over it's first 16 episodes.