Doki Doki Battling Club - Halloween 2023 Event Feedback & Discussion

[ExLight]

Wait so bery was never hacked by nemona

damn if only someone had warned you that you were being directly hostile to staff members

 

[helperman]

I'm a bit upset that I can't make my own AI that is like nemona, though, since this AI was fake, maybe you could do a real one in the future?

 

[Snowy]

The most important lesson you NEED to take away from this is having legitimate ways for users to be able to opt out of the event. Nemona was not fun for everyone, and I spoke with a few people that wanted to know how they can block Nemona on the forums, and how they can remove the sidebar image.

I can definitely see potential in an event like this, as long as it doesn't make the forums unenjoyable for people. Nemona should have also strictly followed the rules.

As for me personally, I was forced to abstain from the forums for a day or two. Nemona is a ptsd trigger for me, so when Distortion World disappeared, I was unable to log on.

Just two cents from your Faithful War room/Fun and Games/Video games moderator

So...Nemona has finally gone eh? Speaking of which, how does one go about deactivating their account?

I believe you use the contact us link at the bottom of the forums.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

It's like Snowy said ages ago:

Never... Never... Never ever trust Maniacal Engineer. Never. Not in a million years. He must be lynched day 1.

Buuuuuuuuuuut...before you all get out your torches and pitchforks, let me give you my perspective on this event.

So, as Archaic mentioned, I did in fact suggest this idea originally as an AFD prank, but, due to the DDLC and creepy nature that we could lean into, it was serviceable as a Halloween event.
When I mentioned the idea, the original concept was for ME to change over my account to Nemona and pretend to be her for the duration of the event on the forums. There was never any idea of an AI or anything like that in my original concept. That was something that I did not come up with at all.

As for the Nemona account, I was never one of the four staff members who took control of said account, so I had absolutely zero control over anything she said or did. To that end, even having myself be one of the programmers was not part of the original idea, and only stemmed out of one of the Nemona staff members deliberately using "ME" in several of their posts, and needing to explain why and how that happened. Because I had zero control over what Nemona said or did, I was just as surprised as all of you were at her posts and the directions the staffers controlling that account went in. This was 100% on purpose, so that my reactions could be as genuine as possible.

That having been said, yes I actually am an engineer who works in automation and robotics, which most people should know and definitely lent some credibility to the AI's potential existence...buuuuuuuut I am decidedly more on the mechanical side of things. I would be the guy you go to in order to design and build a body for your AI, not the guy to program said AI.

And, while I am a Master Engineer, most people are not aware that I actually have some acting/performing chops. Among other things, I attended an acting summer camp for many years, I've played in several mafia games here on the forums, and I've put on a standup comedy routine in Las Vegas. All of this, combined with how emotionally invested I actually got in this event (wishing at several points that Nemona was actually real) is what allowed me to make such realistic posts.

...well, that and the fact that my mental health really is in the toilet recently. Part of the reason I got so invested in this event was that I was dragged in a lot more than I'd initially expected, by basically needing to assume the role of one of Nemona's programmers (again, that was not my idea, nor was it in my initial plan). But it was also because this was a fun distraction from what really has been an overall incredibly shitty year, and an especially hectic past three months and terrible month of October.

So, when I said that I'll be stepping away from most of my staffing duties following this event, that is no joke. I actually already took a formal Leave of Absence from my staffing duties and stuck around for this event specifically because it was my brainchild and because, like I said, it was a nice distraction from everything crappy going on right now.


I do apologize if this revelation hurts any of you, or if you did not enjoy this event.

Anyway, I think that about wraps things up from my end. Feel free to chuck as many rotten tomatoes at me as you have to in order to feel better. I'm used to it.

 

[Zexy]

I had more faith in this event until a certain incident... By the end I still wanted to somehow take part for the sake of users who enjoyed it and fellow staff who put such an effort designing it.

I did not trust myself in the team piloting the account, so I made it a sort-of personal mission to act hacked but be so suspiciously bad at it (most TWR regulars can tell this is second nature for me) to hint to as many people as possible that it is a prank without actually saying so. While dropping some more obscure references a few people around at the time would appreciate, by that time Greymon was also about to get in with all the post history giving everything away as well... So I ended up just dropping the facade to chill around...

Even went as far as posting a Livin La Vida Loca video in OtB a few days ago so I could now point it out and claim I knew since then...

 

[ExLight]

Twas fine, I get that the idea was a scare, and it did it successfully, but I think it underestimated how big AI panic is at the moment.

I personally feel pretty bad for the kids that were panicking and/or trying to help, because this is likely a safe space for a lot of them, and having it undermined by the idea of a AI going havoc and potentially hacking their account or threatening/ insulting them (even if in a more lighthearted manner) is a biiiit too far in my opinion. Heck, even the whole existential thing as to what is sentience can be distressing for them.

It did fool me, I was vehemently defending that it was a real AI, lol. Although the whole hacking thing was fairly cheesy, and I think it gave a bit away that some things weren't right. Honestly, kinda astonished at how many people were involved in the prank and the dedication they put in it. Kudos to that, I guess, lol.

Suggestion for future events, but maybe have an option for people to opt-in or out in future halloween events. Maybe make the option pop during like september or august so it has some gap between it and people don't suspect much.

 

[helperman]

i have felt a lot of unecesery negative emotions this last week, but not because of worry of the AI being evil, but rather because of worry of how people where treating a AI that according to my research was impossible and thus i thought was the future of AI. though i doubt you will do this joke again, if you do, let me know so i can point out a few guidelines that if you would have followed, would have made your imitation of AI more convincing.

Main guideline being, despite what I tell myself to convince myself AI is more human like then we think, it really can't go beyond its programming, so announce it can do something before it does it

 

[Archaic]

Honestly, by that point in the event we wanted to make the AI less convincing, so it'd be more obvious to people that it was all staged.

Regarding options to opt-out of the event, I should note that the only truly unavoidable part of the event was the forums style, and then only at the start of the event (when we changed the default style, though you were still free to change to any other style), and at the event's grand finale on Halloween (though both the light and dark styles were available). As for the other parts:

• While Nemona starting to ignore the sidebar setting was part of the event, you always had the option to hide the entire sidebar using the "Toggle Sidebar" option you can find at the bottom of any page where you can see the sidebar. It's down next to the Style choose and Change width options in the bottom left.
• Entering this thread was of course entirely optional.
• While the Nemona account did make posts in other places outside of here, the account functioned just like any other user account, and was never given actual mod or admin privileges of any kind. You could ignore all posts made by that account by clicking on the account name, and then clicking the ignore button, the same as you can with any other non-mod/admin user.

Specifically in regards to the sidebar, I was thinking of the whole "Nemona ignoring the setting" element of the event as a way to try and get people involved in the event who'd perhaps initially opted out not because they weren't interested in a Halloween event, but rather because they had believed this was all real (and to be fair, it was a believable scenario we presented), and had an objection to Bulba doing any sort of AI experiments. I'd considered that part of the event as being one of the first big flags to everyone that it was all a play, while at the same time hoping people would play along with it as a fun little event. It was honestly very hard for us to tell through most of the event if some people really did think it was all real, or if they were just playing along because they were having fun.

 

[BulbaTech]

I'm a bit upset that I can't make my own AI that is like nemona, though, since this AI was fake, maybe you could do a real one in the future?

Yeah I'm going to step in and say "no." For one, making an actual AI is a LOT of work. For two, even if you put constraints on them, it's possible for people to get them to say and do things that they shouldn't, and we really don't need one to learn to, say, be anti-semitic or something. It's not the sort of thing I want to have to genuinely worry about. I'm sure everyone remembers such cases as the "Seinfeld forever" AI that eventually got itself banned off twitch for homophobic/transphobic jokes, or the "Tay" fiasco that Microsoft unleashed on Twitter (seriously, who thought that was a good idea?).

Long story short, we have no plans to make an actual AI, and I would quickly shoot down any actual plans to do so. As it stands, I had no part in the planning of this event, but I was happy to play along and join in on the fun. It reminded me a bit of the old creepypastas like Ben Drowned. I was a bit surprised to see how many people actually believed Nemona was an AI, but I'll chalk that up to the excellent work from the staff on the part of roleplaying.

 

[Salmancer]

Ah, there's the Tay reference I was wanting to say but was worried was against the rules!

Novel is still coming, don't worry and/or worry depending on your role in this.

 

[guzmania]

They replied and said that, yes, it was them who wrote it (meaning they were never actually hacked).

uh.... i wrote that before i ever started rp'ing nemona though...

Wait so bery was never hacked by nemona

nope. it was me the entire time lol.

i'm sorry for everything. i don't really know what to say except that. i might make another post later or something going into more detail but i would rather it actually mean something and i feel as though i'm simply too distraught right now to do that. which i have absolutely no right to be.
as the first "hacked" victim of nemona i was absolutely complicit in this and i accept all responsibility. two days into staff and i already completely, utterly, miserably failed at my job - making the forums a safe, comfortable space for everyone.
i'm sorry for being so useless. please criticize me in any way you want. i deserve it.

 

[ZekromMahDad]

Your a cool person and will never insult you. Your new to the job and nothing can be perfect!

 

[Greninjaman]

uh.... i wrote that before i ever started rp'ing nemona though...

Oh...
Of course, there is no way I would have known that.

 

[FlitPix]

Yeah I already figured this was fake pretty quickly, haha.

This was a fun event to read and... attempt to participate in, lol. But I will say that as someone who follows tech pretty closely, the initial announcement was very discomforting for me. "Who would ever have the idea of implementing an AI like this that scrapes everyone's posts, without first asking the community?" That was probably part of why I figured it out so quickly, but more importantly as a "new" user it made me a bit uncomfortable on the off chance that it actually was true.

Also ngl I really do not like that yesterday my style was forcibly changed and I could not change it back. This is probably a practice that should be reconsidered. It worked as intended as I ended up following the thread, since I already knew about it prior, buuuut I still don't like it. Not to mention that there wasn't really a notice or anything pointing back to this thread, so people would have had to know to come here.

All in all this was fun! These are just things to consider.

 

[FlitPix]

i'm sorry for everything. i don't really know what to say except that. i might make another post later or something going into more detail but i would rather it actually mean something and i feel as though i'm simply too distraught right now to do that. which i have absolutely no right to be.
as the first "hacked" victim of nemona i was absolutely complicit in this and i accept all responsibility. two days into staff and i already completely, utterly, miserably failed at my job - making the forums a safe, comfortable space for everyone.
i'm sorry for being so useless. please criticize me in any way you want. i deserve it.

You're a brand new staff member being thrown into unusual circumstances not even a week in. If I were in charge I wouldn't have faulted you for it, and I highly doubt Archaic would either.

Just try not to think about it, and have a chat with the rest of the team. I'm sure they're understanding of the situation.

It's in the past now, try not to worry about it so much.

 

[wanderist]

I'll admit it was a bit upsetting how long this was dragged out and how many people were genuinely upset for Nemona and/or ME, but I understand that it wasn't intended to upset anyone and was meant to be fun. And like I said before, while I didn't find the idea of the joke itself to be funny I ended up having fun in here anyway.

Gotta say you guys did a good job making it believable at least. So many of us thought there was no way it could be a joke because of what happened with the shutdown until it occurred to us that that was also likely fake. So...well played, I'll give you all that.

In hindsight now I'm honestly just relieved that I didn't actually witness an AI panic in her final moments and die last week. Those last messages were brutal to read at the time, so honestly glad now that they weren't real.

Also panicked when I woke up and my dark Nemona theme was gone, glad I was able to find it. Thank you whoever made this theme, I love it. New favorite.

 

[Herbizarre]

Okay, now that I've read a few more posts in this thread, here are more of my thoughts :

In some respects, this is perhaps the most successful event we've had in at least a decade. I can't remember the last time we saw a thread grow so large so quickly, and create such a large volume of user interaction. On the other hand, this event could've easily been a disaster if a few things had gone just a little differently, and there's certainly been some huge learning experiences for all the staff team involved in it, so I figure it's important that we all have a bit of a discussion and debrief, to let you all know what was going on, and to let you ask any questions you may have about what happened.

I wouldn't call this a success if the overall consequences means disrupting the trust of some of the users involved, or worse than that, alienating them completely from the forums. Nemona is a divisive character herself (though that's its own can of beans), but I also think some of the stuff spoken by Nemona could have been better moderated (namely the polarizing stuff like propaganda and such, and whoever did this should at least be demoted, if not banned). I am glad the negative points are at least acknowledged, but I better hope these won't be overlooked and mistakes like this won't be repeated again. Regarding me being close to the mark about the theme of Nemona x DDLC thingy... I've never played the latter, and I only know of a few scenes from the game, which made me uncomfortable enough to not even touch it with a stick. Therefore, I've stood by my own references, which was the Terminator movie. On that note, am I the only one who's never played DDLC ?

Look all I'm saying is that there are more suitable characters than Nemona to use for an event like this.

Come to think of it... If the original idea was for Nemona being an AI to be an April's Fool joke... Why wasn't the Hex Maniac considered for this role as part of the Halloween event ? Yes the AI prank would have been far more obvious, but it would have actually been a fitting pick since most of us remember that one scene from the X & Y game in Lumiose City. That, and it would have made people more comfortable with the whole "AI doing harmless spooky fun" theme of Halloween, like making a Gastly pop up occasionally from one side of the screen to the other, or have a Gengar progressively fazing into the forums, grinning at us with malicious intent, then phases out. With so many Ghost-type Pokémons, there are many directions this prank could have gone to.

...well, that and the fact that my mental health really is in the toilet recently. Part of the reason I got so invested in this event was that I was dragged in a lot more than I'd initially expected, by basically needing to assume the role of one of Nemona's programmers (again, that was not my idea, nor was it in my initial plan). But it was also because this was a fun distraction from what really has been an overall incredibly shitty year, and an especially hectic past three months and terrible month of October.

So, when I said that I'll be stepping away from most of my staffing duties following this event, that is no joke. I actually already took a formal Leave of Absence from my staffing duties and stuck around for this event specifically because it was my brainchild and because, like I said, it was a nice distraction from everything crappy going on right now. I do apologize if this revelation hurts any of you, or if you did not enjoy this event.

You know, I was actually worried somebody was making a mean-spirited joke at you when Nemona got "reactivated" again after you've made that "exhaustion" post, thinking someone wanted to cause wanton harm. But I'm glad it was never the case. May you get well soon enough

Honestly, by that point in the event we wanted to make the AI less convincing, so it'd be more obvious to people that it was all staged.

I won't lie, I'm gullible enough to think I would still have been fooled either way. And even then, I would have avoided the forums and let the mods/admins deal with the AI problem if there was one and come back once the dust had settled. I'd still have email notifications in case something actually happened to my account, so either way I could still be misled easily... Which is actually a bigger problem for people who are easily gaslighted or are susceptible to panic attacks over such things. I am likely exaggerating here, but my overly empathic person can't ignore the risk of pulling a prank to cause more harm than good on accident.

----

We all have different reactions to these types of elaborated pranks. I don't feel particularly positive or negative about the whole experience, but Halloween is supposed to be about harmless spooky pranks (and mostly candies but don't tell the dentists), not playing with people's minds to the point where negative emotions start creeping up and ruin the whole experience for them. And with people being scared of AI being progressively smarter and smarter to the point where we fear being overtaken by what we created... I feel like the idea could have been executed a lot, lot better than what we got here. Lessons have been learned, but I hope these won't be written off as mere "reminder text" and become a part of a guideline on "How to avoid going too far into a prank".

I didn't expect this big of a comment from me, but I guess it turned into a 2-cent type of comment.

 

[MC.Princess]

uh.... i wrote that before i ever started rp'ing nemona though...

nope. it was me the entire time lol.

i'm sorry for everything. i don't really know what to say except that. i might make another post later or something going into more detail but i would rather it actually mean something and i feel as though i'm simply too distraught right now to do that. which i have absolutely no right to be.
as the first "hacked" victim of nemona i was absolutely complicit in this and i accept all responsibility. two days into staff and i already completely, utterly, miserably failed at my job - making the forums a safe, comfortable space for everyone.
i'm sorry for being so useless. please criticize me in any way you want. i deserve it.

you don’t deserve any criticism. like @FlitPix said earlier, you’re still new to this and were put into an unusual situation. don’t be so hard on yourself, it’s all good! :3

plus if i’m being honest despite being worried the past few days this was a pretty fun event!

 

[ZekromMahDad]

I actually thought something was wrong ngl. I dont think I would ever want anything like this again

 

[FlitPix]

On that note, am I the only one who's never played DDLC ?

No (but I'm personally just not into dating sims in general)

Otherwise yeah, a success in terms of more interactions, but I'm not sure why that's the priority here? I feel like user safety and trust should be prioritized higher...

you don’t deserve any criticism.

Whoa now. The event overall and all the staff still do, I'm just going to be much less harsh on beryl since they're new to the team and all. Mistakes will happen in this situation and I'm going to be more understanding of it.

As long as that sort of political incident doesn't happen ever again - this isn't the place for that and there's no excuse for it - I don't have any issues personally.