Double standards.

[Lethal Carnivine]

First off, there probably will be some offensive words, but I assure you this is not directed at anyone at all. This is just what I find interesting and odd.

As we all know, during slavery and all, everyone was using nigger(which is a racial slur that means ignorance) to refer to the slaves. Slavery is over, we are in the 1950's and people casually use the word as though it was nothing. Mostly white people. Now we are in the 21st century, after the Civil rights movement and people still use that word. And the majority of them are black people referring to everyone else(who they are basically close with). Now I don't understand why they are using a word that has been used at their ancestors insultingly as though it was somethign EVERYONE should say. next I don't understand the double standard to this. Basically black people say this and they are cool and tough, anyone else says it and they are jumped, accused of being racist, so on and so forth. I personally don't support the use of that word and have never said it in my entire life.

I'm just curious about what the community thinks about the things I'm talking about. Please, let's try not to get too nasty here. Also, if there are any other examples of deogratory racial names I didn't mention, please share.

 

[Witchboi]

it just a way of taking the power of the word back. Kinda like when gay guys use fag same thing

 

[evkl]

A word's connotation and denotation can vary drastically.

 

[Transfinite]

Why is it only white people who claim the n-word means "ignorant"? It's pretty obviously derived from negro or Niger.

 

[WMS]

meh i dont pay attention to anyone but i do observe and it dosent mattr what anyone says we'll always be the most ignorant species on earth and not im not talking about White or Black im talking about humans...

 

[Dogasu]

Basically what Witchboi said.

The assumption here is that black people aren't going to be racist against other black people, so them using that word is very different from an "outsider" (i.e. white person) using it. I'm not saying that that assumption is accurate or anything, but it does exist.

It all depends on the context and the people who are around, really.

 

[Nomura]

In this country, the word was used for a singular purpose. Nowm you wish to tell me that purpose has dissapeared, and now that black people use it, it has a completely different meaning? That's bullshit. All that is being done is giving justification for the word and what was done to their anscestors. You can say it's changing what it means, but the fact is, it's merely saying that the word in itself is okay. That goes on to say that how it was used back in the day is okay to.

In this world, we've allowed for a few select "words" to have power, so much that we can no longer take the power out of those words. One of which is the N word. It means the same thing it did when white people owned slaves, and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

It's quite sad. Martin Luther King Jr. day is coming up....I wonder how he would feel. Sure, he'd be happy about Barack being elected, but I'm sure he would still wish we would have come farther than this, even in the way we speak.

 

[Jo-Jo]

I can't stand double standards that don't have a reason like that. Like sexism against men. If a man wrote songs about an ex like the ones that women write about theirs today, they'd be viciously attacked, censored, and ostracized. Occasionally you'll hear old country songs about women cheating, but they're sad and touching. A man couldn't pull something off like 'Before He Cheats', 'Womanizer', etc.

Are you joking? There are more woman-bashing songs in existence than man-bashing ones. Ever listened to gangsta rap? For that matter, neither of the songs you listed are sexist unless criticising a man due to that individual man's bad behaviour means you have a problem with all men.

 

[Nomura]

Are you joking? There are more woman-bashing songs in existence than man-bashing ones. Ever listened to gangsta rap? For that matter, neither of the songs you listed are sexist unless criticising a man due to that individual man's bad behaviour means you have a problem with all men.

No offense, but you can't get mad at rap when the females audition for the roles. You can't get mad when there are so many men saying it degrades women, but then these women say it's a choice and are not being degraded.

As for the songs he mentioned, I think it's more on the lines of, if a man talked about destroying a females car because she cheated on him he would be ridiculed for it, but it's all fine and dandy for women to do so.

Also, I don't hear my fellow men calling women pointless, asking for them to be enslaved or other random bs like that. I do hear it from the conservative femanist I know(which would be quite a few). Heck, the whole feminist movement is a double standard(most of it anyway). They want equality, but they still wish to retain the special treatment of being a female(this is from the females I know, and many my freinds know).

 

[Jo-Jo]

No offense, but you can't get mad at rap when the females audition for the roles.

Ummmmmm, yes I can. Especially since the original context of this talking point was a discussion of lyrics, not music videos (though Christ, the music videos are awful).

You can't get mad when there are so many men saying it degrades women, but then these women say it's a choice and are not being degraded.

Shock horror, some women are sexist, too. Stop the presses!

Then again, some women probably appear in these videos because they need the money; because their agent sent them along for the audition; or because there are not, really, all that many roles for women in music videos that don't involve wriggling your crotch in the camera.

As for the songs he mentioned, I think it's more on the lines of, if a man talked about destroying a females car because she cheated on him he would be ridiculed for it, but it's all fine and dandy for women to do so.

Yeah, it's not like there are tons of songs that reference beating the woman up directly or killing her because she cheated.

Also, I don't hear my fellow men calling women pointless, asking for them to be enslaved or other random bs like that.

You never heard a guy saying he wants to "hate fuck" some woman in power he doesn't like? (A fair few liberal guys said this about Sarah Palin, as I recall.) Never heard a woman called a slut for having a one night stand, frequently by the man she slept with? Never heard of domestic violence? My, you're pretty ignorant to even be getting involved in this discussion, aren't you?

I do hear it from the conservative femanist I know(which would be quite a few). Heck, the whole feminist movement is a double standard(most of it anyway). They want equality, but they still wish to retain the special treatment of being a female(this is from the females I know, and many my freinds know).

Ah, thanks for outing yourself as a troll before we got too embroiled in this silliness. I only have a limited amount of patience when it comes to giving the time of day to people who lack reading comprehension.

BTW, "special treatment of being a female"? LMFAO.

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

I'm really don't think many educated people would know about the concept of 'hate fuck'. I could be wrong and all, since I'm relatively young, but the concept doesn't make sense. Bit of an oxymoron.

I don't get how his last statement isn't intelligent. He's basically saying the feminist movement wants females to be in power, but still expect people to hold doors for them.

I agree with Nomura when he says MLK would be ashamed to see the way people talk in schools.

 

[Nomura]

Ummmmmm, yes I can. Especially since the original context of this talking point was a discussion of lyrics, not music videos (though Christ, the music videos are awful).


Shock horror, some women are sexist, too. Stop the presses!

Then again, some women probably appear in these videos because they need the money; because their agent sent them along for the audition; or because there are not, really, all that many roles for women in music videos that don't involve wriggling your crotch in the camera.


Yeah, it's not like there are tons of songs that reference beating the woman up directly or killing her because she cheated.


You never heard a guy saying he wants to "hate fuck" some woman in power he doesn't like? (A fair few liberal guys said this about Sarah Palin, as I recall.) Never heard a woman called a slut for having a one night stand, frequently by the man she slept with? Never heard of domestic violence? My, you're pretty ignorant to even be getting involved in this discussion, aren't you?


Ah, thanks for outing yourself as a troll before we got too embroiled in this silliness. I only have a limited amount of patience when it comes to giving the time of day to people who lack reading comprehension.

BTW, "special treatment of being a female"? LMFAO.

You obviously lack the reading comprehention here. I never said my fellow men were not assholes who degrade women. I never said I never heard of any of those things. I just mentioned what I do not hear my fellow man saying. I just mentioned that women state things just as badly as we men do, sometimes worst, but we men are the ones who generally get hapred on for what we say or do.

Troll, ignorant. You seem to lack the simple ability to intellectually debate without going into name calling. I normally don't bother with people like you who think you have people figured out, when the fact is you don't know a thing. Like I said, I'm a man so I know exactly what we do. I just felt to mention females do and say things just as horrific as us males do, but they don't even get a slap on the wrist. That is why it's a double standard. So please, just keep silent unless you know what you're talking about, and don't put words or ideas in other peoples mouth.

Also, yes, there is such thing as women getting special treatment for being women. When females are around in the workplace, me and my fellow guy friends have to watch what we say or do. When I was applying for scholarships, there were a certain amount I could get, simply because I'm white, or I'm a GUY. The list goes on. These are all forms of specail treatment, and females are not the only ones who get it, but the point is they cry for equality, but I've never heard of one of them saying they wish to get rid of those kinds of special treatment to get it.

EDIT: Lethal Carnivine- Thanks for understanding, I was hoping someone would

 

[Jo-Jo]

I'm really don't think many educated people would know about the concept of 'hate fuck'. I could be wrong and all, since I'm relatively young, but the concept doesn't make sense. Bit of an oxymoron.

If we're assessing levels of sexism in the world, we can hardly exclude the uneducated.

As far as I can tell, 'hate fuck' basically means 'rape'. Most of the guys who make jokes about it will deny it if you try to explain this to them, though.

I don't get how his last statement isn't intelligent. He's basically saying the feminist movement wants females to be in power, but still expect people to hold doors for them.

Which is total bollocks. The feminist movement doesn't want power over men, and we're happy to hold our own doors. If Nomura had a clue what he was talking about, he'd know this, but since he clearly formed all of his opinions about feminism by listening to other people who also had no clue what they were talking about, it's no wonder he's talking nonsense.

You obviously lack the reading comprehention here. I never said my fellow men were not assholes who degrade women. I never said I never heard of any of those things. I just mentioned what I do not hear my fellow man saying.

Yuh-huh, so you're perfectly well aware that other men say these things, but because you don't know any of them personally, they don't count. However, you do get to use song lyrics by female artists you've also never met as evidence that women are sexist.

I just mentioned that women state things just as badly as we men do, sometimes worst, but we men are the ones who generally get hapred on for what we say or do.

That's because by and large women don't go around beating, stalking, raping and murdering men.

Like I said, I'm a man so I know exactly what we do.

Lol, sure! Men are the perfect abitrators for whether or not society is bigoted against women. Just like white people should get to determine whether or not something is racist, straight people should get to determine whether something is homophobic, skinny people get to determine whether something is fat-phobic...

I just felt to mention females do and say things just as horrific as us males do, but they don't even get a slap on the wrist.

Really? That must be why I'm constantly tripping over whiny guys on the internet like yourself who'll tell anyone who'll listen about how those mean feminists are trying to take away their testicles.

Also, yes, there is such thing as women getting special treatment for being women. When females are around in the workplace, me and my fellow guy friends have to watch what we say or do.

Shit, you mean you have to avoid saying offensive things in the workplace? You poor dear. And all because they let those lousy women into the office! Oppression!

Also, apparently not being insulted or demeaned by your co-workers constitutes special treatment now. Wow, I'm so much luckier than I ever realised. I guess the guys I work with have been biting their tongues all this time out of deference to me. I'm so touched by their noble efforts! *tear*

When I was applying for scholarships, there were a certain amount I could get, simply because I'm white, or I'm a GUY.

Proof?

The list goes on. These are all forms of specail treatment, and females are not the only ones who get it, but the point is they cry for equality, but I've never heard of one of them saying they wish to get rid of those kinds of special treatment to get it.

You hear that? "Cry" for equality. Like we deserve it or something. We are SUCH whingers.

FYI, feminists regularly campaign to get more parental leave for men. Feminists are also opposed to domestic/sexual violence against men, as well as harmful masculine stereotypes that harm men who feel they have to live up to them. If men got paid significantly less money than women for working the same hours, I have no doubts the feminists would be the first people to notice and raise an eyebrow.


BTW, sorry everyone if this is off-topic. I figured it was in line with the issues raised in the original post, but if it isn't, I can knock it off.

 

[Fig]

Which is total bollocks. The feminist movement doesn't want power over men, and we're happy to hold our own doors. If Nomura had a clue what he was talking about, he'd know this, but since he clearly formed all of his opinions about feminism by listening to other people who also had no clue what they were talking about, it's no wonder he's talking nonsense.

Bull.

Like all the "isms" out there, Feminism has its fanatics and its nutjobs that do think women are superior, and should hold the upper ground in society.

There's the whole range of feminist, from "We want equal rights" to "Men are low and servile creatures", to "We'll denounce everything bad anyone ever said or did to a woman as sexism, even if the same or worse is routinely done to men by the same sort of men."* to "We want equal rights...as long as we're only talking about women gaining rights"**, to "Women who stay at home by choice are evil, ungrateful little traitors, and the state should actively discourage that behavior!"***

*See the relative amount of shitstorms an ad where the male acts stupid compared to the woman, and an ad where its the woman acting stupid and the man looking intelligent, generally triggers. And then see whether you could get away with an ad depicting a woman acting like a cat toward a (male) master - you couldn't. But I've seen the other add, with the man on all fours rubbing against the legs of his "mistress".
**For example: see custody rights. It's statistically proven, at least in several states and provinces, that women just are more likely to get custody of the children, but whenever fathers go up to denounce that, a lot of feminists are at best "Nothing to see here", and at worse openly "That's patriarchal thinking".
***Example: feminist groups in Quebec rabidly opposed proposed laws that would change the very-low-cost nursery program the province currently has into "give money to the families with young children", because with low-cost nurseries, stay-at-home moms get no benefits, and therefore changing the program would "encourage stay-at-homes".

Yes, there are good feminists out there - people who genuinely want to equalize the rights of everyone in society, and I fully support them (And I do agree that the women-degrading sort of rap is the work of sorry little retards, to say nothing of the people who listen to them). But there are also feminist revanchists ("Pay men back!"), and feminists absolutists ("You are either out working 5-8 like us in a glass tower, or a dirty traitor to your gender!") and so on and so forth.

In this, as with everything else, organizations tend to be taken over by the vocal fringe rather than the more quiet majorities, and it becomes (as usual) a war of both sides against the middle.

 

[Satoshi-chan]

As far as I can tell, 'hate fuck' basically means 'rape'. Most of the guys who make jokes about it will deny it if you try to explain this to them, though.

Wow, I've never known a single man who makes jokes about "hate fucking." You must know some really fucked up people... I'd associate with better people if I were you.

 

[Nekusagi]

I'm all for women having equal rights, but some of the lengths the feminist movement goes to (the kind Damian mentioned at the end) make me embarrassed to be a woman.

When it gets to the point of "if you do this, you're part of the problem" it pisses me off. All the paranoid talk of "the patriarchy" and how we women are apparently BRAINWASHED by them to like things like frilly clothes (I once read a Jezebel post on Lolita fashion where a girl actually stuck up for it and the posters proceeded to tear her apart and tell her all of us Lolitas were just keeping ourselves in our little patriarchal cages), weddings, and generally... being feminine, and telling us WE aren't making our choices, the patriarchy is, and we should do EXACTLY AS THEY (the feminists) SAY for the good of all women everywhere. I read a feminist blog entry (FeminstGamer, I think) that slammed women who wore makeup and heels as being "demeaning to other women" because "you didn't really make that choice yourself", and when one reader stepped up and said "but I enjoy doing that," she was immediately shot down with the condescending "the patriarchy expects that of you" argument. And don't get me started on the Fat Princess shitstorm.

Honestly. Feminism was put in place to let women choose NOT TO do these things if they so pleased and not have to fear the results of it. Why do these radical feminists get off totally trashing other women for making their own choices? I wear my frilly clothes because *I* like them, not because the big bad patriarchy ordered me to through my brainfeed.

 

[Satoshi-chan]

Why do these radical feminists get off totally trashing other women for making their own choices?

Because they want to be just like the "stereotypical male" that they constantly talk down about... they want to be the one who tells other women what to do and control them. That's a double standard in itself.

 

[Nekusagi]

Preach on, brother.

 

[WMS]

this some old skizhit mess

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Damn, I see a shitload of double standards on Aspie boards and comms. They'll deride "neurotypicals" for being ignorant and cruel and wanting to wipe out anyone who isn't NT, and then they'll turn around and say stuff like "the world would be better if everyone was an Aspie" or "NTs are heartless and will never know any better!" There's no offering to educate, it's point blank "they're hopeless, don't even try".

With attitudes like that, it's no wonder Aspies get the bad rap we've gotten. Seriously, I've tried pointing out that they're acting just like the NTs they deride, but they yell at me.
Not to mention that there seems to be a lack of definition as to what "neurotypical" exactly MEANS. Some use it to mean "people without neurologiocal differences", some use it as "anyone without autism", and some seem to to think of it as "the average person".


Another one I've wondered about is why is it omg so terrible and sexist to call someone a "cunt", but you can call someone a "dick" with no problem. Aren't they *both* degrading someone based on their reproductive organs?