Double standards.

[Nekusagi]

Damn, I see a shitload of double standards on Aspie boards and comms. They'll deride "neurotypicals" for being ignorant and cruel and wanting to wipe out anyone who isn't NT, and then they'll turn around and say stuff like "the world would be better if everyone was an Aspie" or "NTs are heartless and will never know any better!" There's no offering to educate, it's point blank "they're hopeless, don't even try".

You mean like this?

Another one I've wondered about is why is it omg so terrible and sexist to call someone a "cunt", but you can call someone a "dick" with no problem. Aren't they *both* degrading someone based on their reproductive organs?

Cunt and dick are only sexist because we give them power, IMO. Also in the eyes of a lot of extreme feminists, penis=tool of oppression.

And I never knew "twat" had sexist connotations until I learned recently it was an old British euphemism.

 

[Satoshi-chan]

Damn, I see a shitload of double standards on Aspie boards and comms. They'll deride "neurotypicals" for being ignorant and cruel and wanting to wipe out anyone who isn't NT, and then they'll turn around and say stuff like "the world would be better if everyone was an Aspie" or "NTs are heartless and will never know any better!" There's no offering to educate, it's point blank "they're hopeless, don't even try".

With attitudes like that, it's no wonder Aspies get the bad rap we've gotten. Seriously, I've tried pointing out that they're acting just like the NTs they deride, but they yell at me.
Not to mention that there seems to be a lack of definition as to what "neurotypical" exactly MEANS. Some use it to mean "people without neurologiocal differences", some use it as "anyone without autism", and some seem to to think of it as "the average person".

I used to see this a lot when I was opping Wrongplanet's chat. I basically got fed up with it mainly because if you WANT someone to understand you, you can't be hostile toward them. Fortunately this isn't the attitude of the majority of aspies, moreso the attitude of the vocal minority, though unfortunately it is usually the most vocal of a group that is usually acknowledged and recognized.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

WrongPlanet is one of the most OPEN MINDED places I've seen, and that's really kinda sad.

And yes, Neku, exactly like that. They treat Aspies as though we're better than anyone else...but look at that garbage. "Greed-centered society"? As if Aspies can't be as greedy as anyone? They seem to think that any negative traits are because of NTs, but honestly, Aspies can be manipulative, we can be criminals, we can be cruel--seriously, we're not that different in that regard. But heaven forbid you should ever point it out. Every NT is apparently like that, but if you attribute that to an Aspie, you're "holding us down".

It's like how people clamor for equal treatment in media and then whine when there's any sort of negative portrayal. "Equal treatment" means warts and all.

 

[Jo-Jo]

Oh ffs. I'm starting to suspect a lot of you guys have never actually met a typical feminist, let alone done any research on a larger scale. Man-hatred - ACTUAL man-hatred, not 'oh, she talks about male violence against women, that's so mean, she obviously hates men!!' - is so fucking rare that I virtually never see it. Either I have managed to stumble upon only the happy inclusive feminist websites, and the entire of the rest of the internet is still a cesspool of male-bashing, or - just possibly - you have been misled, either willfully or otherwise, into using a strawman definition of a feminist that was popularised by misogynists. Or maybe YOU are one of those people who thinks it's sexist against men to point out uncomfortable facts about the current state of affairs between men and women. Something to think about.

 

[Nomura]

If we're assessing levels of sexism in the world, we can hardly exclude the uneducated.

As far as I can tell, 'hate fuck' basically means 'rape'. Most of the guys who make jokes about it will deny it if you try to explain this to them, though.


Which is total bollocks. The feminist movement doesn't want power over men, and we're happy to hold our own doors. If Nomura had a clue what he was talking about, he'd know this, but since he clearly formed all of his opinions about feminism by listening to other people who also had no clue what they were talking about, it's no wonder he's talking nonsense.


Yuh-huh, so you're perfectly well aware that other men say these things, but because you don't know any of them personally, they don't count. However, you do get to use song lyrics by female artists you've also never met as evidence that women are sexist.


That's because by and large women don't go around beating, stalking, raping and murdering men.


Lol, sure! Men are the perfect abitrators for whether or not society is bigoted against women. Just like white people should get to determine whether or not something is racist, straight people should get to determine whether something is homophobic, skinny people get to determine whether something is fat-phobic...


Really? That must be why I'm constantly tripping over whiny guys on the internet like yourself who'll tell anyone who'll listen about how those mean feminists are trying to take away their testicles.


Shit, you mean you have to avoid saying offensive things in the workplace? You poor dear. And all because they let those lousy women into the office! Oppression!

Also, apparently not being insulted or demeaned by your co-workers constitutes special treatment now. Wow, I'm so much luckier than I ever realised. I guess the guys I work with have been biting their tongues all this time out of deference to me. I'm so touched by their noble efforts! *tear*


Proof?


You hear that? "Cry" for equality. Like we deserve it or something. We are SUCH whingers.

FYI, feminists regularly campaign to get more parental leave for men. Feminists are also opposed to domestic/sexual violence against men, as well as harmful masculine stereotypes that harm men who feel they have to live up to them. If men got paid significantly less money than women for working the same hours, I have no doubts the feminists would be the first people to notice and raise an eyebrow.


BTW, sorry everyone if this is off-topic. I figured it was in line with the issues raised in the original post, but if it isn't, I can knock it off.

Yet again, you take what I say and make a false interpertation of it. First, I'm not saying my fellow men are saints, we are far from it. Thing is, I'm not going to sit back and allow you or anyone else to pretend feminist and some of the other females out there are. No one is perfect, and your statement about feminist not wanting to have power over men shows your own ignorance and imperfections. Also, I mentioned that the information I have, comes from other feminist. They tell me exactly what they believe, and don't have a care in the world. Yes, some dudes tell me about their stories, but far more feminist share their ideas(also, they are the more conservative feminist as I mentioned before).

No, it's not even about talking offensively. Most of the men I hang around are gentlemen(some of us still exist). We would never speak offensively towards or about women, but they have taken it further than that in the workplace. We can't even be men, we can't talk about how hot we think a girl is, because it's automatically taken as offense by on of the female co-workers. Remember, I also said we have to watch what we do, well how about I give you an example of what I meant. I was looking at this really pretty girl, and the word "Wow" came out of my mouth. Next thing I know Laura(one of my co-workers) is yelling at me telling me not to stare. Now I'm the bad guy, and it was just because I looked and said wow. I didn't say anything offensive, I didn't make any rude gestures, I did nothing like the men you have described...yet I still was looked at as the bad guy.

Proof- Me and my friend Valerie went and applied for the same scholarship. 3 people per school could get it. Four people applied, and 3 recieved the scholarship. Blair, one of the top ten in our class, then my friend Chris who had the same scores and a slightly lower GPA as me, but he was black...still I didn't care. Then the next one came in, and my friend Valerie, who had a lower GPA than me and lower test scores than me, got the scholarship. I had better scores and GPA than two of the students, but one was Black and the other was a female. Now, they're my friends so I was happy for them, but I know I still should have gotten the shcolarships. I guess it doesn't pay to be a white guy like so many think.

No one is saying females don't deserve equality, everyone should be treated equal. It's what you ask for to go along with your equality that makes it sound like crying. Things like wanting to be equal but retaining affirmative action, and other things like I've mentioned so far.

 

[Nekusagi]

Oh ffs. I'm starting to suspect a lot of you guys have never actually met a typical feminist, let alone done any research on a larger scale. Man-hatred - ACTUAL man-hatred, not 'oh, she talks about male violence against women, that's so mean, she obviously hates men!!' - is so fucking rare that I virtually never see it. Either I have managed to stumble upon only the happy inclusive feminist websites, and the entire of the rest of the internet is still a cesspool of male-bashing, or - just possibly - you have been misled, either willfully or otherwise, into using a strawman definition of a feminist that was popularised by misogynists. Or maybe YOU are one of those people who thinks it's sexist against men to point out uncomfortable facts about the current state of affairs between men and women. Something to think about.

The chick who runs Feminist Gamer shut her site down for a while, so I can't find the second example, but I'll happily provide you the link to the Lolita article, and the response I mentioned.

http://jezebel.com/5056235/gothic-lolita-style-rebellious-or-regressive

http://jezebel.com/5056920/in-her-own-words

No strawmen here. Just personal experience.

And to think Jezebel's considered moderate as feminist blogs go.

(FYI: I'm a girl. Who wears Lolita.)

 

[MetaRobo]

Oh ffs. I'm starting to suspect a lot of you guys have never actually met a typical feminist, let alone done any research on a larger scale. Man-hatred - ACTUAL man-hatred, not 'oh, she talks about male violence against women, that's so mean, she obviously hates men!!' - is so fucking rare that I virtually never see it. Either I have managed to stumble upon only the happy inclusive feminist websites, and the entire of the rest of the internet is still a cesspool of male-bashing, or - just possibly - you have been misled, either willfully or otherwise, into using a strawman definition of a feminist that was popularised by misogynists. Or maybe YOU are one of those people who thinks it's sexist against men to point out uncomfortable facts about the current state of affairs between men and women. Something to think about.

Talk about dramatic irony. You're using a strawman accusation that we have been "misled" into a strawman definition. No wonder Nomura claims you think you have people figured out when you really don't know a thing.

 

[Jo-Jo]

blah blah

Oh... my... god... LOL. I am amused and yet deeply embarrassed for you. You are like a bottomless well of sheer fail.

Guess what? If you feel that you and your friends now "cannot be men" because you have been subjected to the horrors of having to work in a mixed-sex office, then you are being a sexist douchebag. Oh no, my bad - you think women should be allowed to work with you (or do you? Your post was ambiguous)... they just can't have opinions that might negatively impact you - like, say, 'your ogling is creepy and inappropriate'. It doesn't seem to have occurred to you that they might be right on this point, so I'd guess you're the kind of person who thinks that women are inherently irrational and easily-offended. You also clearly believe that men are entitled to perv on women and the women around them should just put up with it. Basically, you don't think you should have to make any concessions to the comfort of your co-workers, if those co-workers are female. Unfortunately for you, sexual harassment laws would suggest that you are in the wrong. I guess your next "wow" will have to be spoken inside your head... because that was too fucking hard to do the first time around, apparently.

As for the GPA kerfuffle, well, I'm sorry that scholarship fell through. Admittedly you don't seem too smart to me, so maybe that's why you didn't get it. It's also possible your entry essays expressed some of the same sentiments you have just expressed on this thread, and the people assigned to reading them decided they didn't want to let sexist lunatics into their college. Who knows.

The chick who runs Feminist Gamer shut her site down for a while, so I can't find the second example, but I'll happily provide you the link to the Lolita article, and the response I mentioned.

http://jezebel.com/5056235/gothic-lolita-style-rebellious-or-regressive

http://jezebel.com/5056920/in-her-own-words

No strawmen here. Just personal experience.

OK, I'm skimming through these articles and the comments now, and I don't see anything offensive in there. The first article is quite positive towards the fashion:

While it might seem ironic that ladies in this tough, gritty, city would be attracted to frilly skirts with petticoats, baby-doll dresses and bloomers, the trend actually makes total sense here. As 22-year-old Nancy Ramos tells the Times: "For me, Lolita is rebellion."

Add to this the pervasive sexual harassment on the street and a flaccid economy and dressing like a Victorian schoolgirl makes perfect sense. There's a sense of protection in those full skirts and high-necked blouses, some safety in choosing flat Mary Janes over spiky stilettos. It's also not surprising that the "Sweet Lolitas," the ones with childlike fruit prints and cute animals on their dresses, are "especially popular" here, according to the Times. In a hectic town, who doesn't want some happiness, some innocence?

Of course, one could argue that the subtext here is that by wearing girlish clothes, these young women are telegraphing the weakness or helplessness of a child. Is it the equivalent of wearing a sign that says, "Please take care of me?" On the other hand, fashion should be fun. The Lolitas interviewed in a Times slideshow speak of just loving the clothes. Kelsey Hine, 21, swears that even though she wears knee socks, "It's not intended to be sexual."

There's no real criticism in there, just some vague musing about the kind of statement that is made by choosing a childlike self-image. The comments are a mixed bag - some people like the style, some don't. Opinions are opinions. *shrug*

The second article is a public posting of a e-mail sent in by a Lolita fashion model, and the person who posted it up on Jezebel seemed to agree with her points. The comments are generally positive from what I've read so far, too.

I honestly don't know what's offensive about any of that. Could you please explain it to me?

EDIT: also, I should explain, Jezebel is not like a typical feminist site. They talk about feminist issues, but the site was designed as more of a 'women's magazine that doesn't suck' - so the commentators aren't necessarily commenting 'as feminists'; they just give their opinions on things, and their opinions are allowed to be fairly bitchy and irreverent. Basically, they don't take things as seriously as most feminist sites, and they're also a lot less PC. So if you find some of the comments mean-spirited, it's probably something of a site-specific thing.

Talk about dramatic irony.

...I don't think that means what you think it means.

You're using a strawman accusation that we have been "misled" into a strawman definition.

I don't think 'strawman' means what you think it means, either.

 

[Nomura]

Oh... my... god... LOL. I am amused and yet deeply embarrassed for you. You are like a bottomless well of sheer fail.

Guess what? If you feel that you and your friends now "cannot be men" because you have been subjected to the horrors of having to work in a mixed-sex office, then you are being a sexist douchebag. Oh no, my bad - you think women should be allowed to work with you (or do you? Your post was ambiguous)... they just can't have opinions that might negatively impact you - like, say, 'your ogling is creepy and inappropriate'. It doesn't seem to have occurred to you that they might be right on this point, so I'd guess you're the kind of person who thinks that women are inherently irrational and easily-offended. You also clearly believe that men are entitled to perv on women and the women around them should just put up with it. Basically, you don't think you should have to make any concessions to the comfort of your co-workers, if those co-workers are female. Unfortunately for you, sexual harassment laws would suggest that you are in the wrong. I guess your next "wow" will have to be spoken inside your head... because that was too fucking hard to do the first time around, apparently.

As for the GPA kerfuffle, well, I'm sorry that scholarship fell through. Admittedly you don't seem too smart to me, so maybe that's why you didn't get it. It's also possible your entry essays expressed some of the same sentiments you have just expressed on this thread, and the people assigned to reading them decided they didn't want to let sexist lunatics into their college. Who knows.

First off, you weren't there to see what I did, or even how loud I was. It was a mere glance at a very pretty girl, and a quiet "wow" that was heard only by my co-workers because they were standing right next to me. It wasn't creepy, because if it was, the guys I worked with would have pulled me aside and said so. Also, I do not mind working with females. I'm the type of person who wishes to work with the best, no matter of race or gender. We can't be men, simply because certain thing we like to talk about may come across as offensive. Does that mean they are, no. I mean, is telling your guy friends that you saw a girl and thought she was hot. Just that, not talking about sleeping with her, or making obscene actions about what we may wish to do, just saying a girl is hot. Apparently it is, and it's those kinds of things that make it hard to just be a guy in the work place.

Also, their is a difference between what I did, and sexual harrassment. If I was doing something illegal, then yes I should have been called out on it. But I was not, I was being a guy. I looked at a girl, end of story. I didn't stalk her, and didn't cosistently look at her until she was creeped out, or anything of those things. So instead of coming to your own conclusion, try to use some intelligence and actually ask for what went down, or some examples to better your own understanding.

You may find me sexist, but with my two best friends being female(closest best friends, I have 4, the other two are guys) I beg to differ. Your lack of understanding and poor use of logic has baffled me. You come to an uninformed conclusion, yet still show an arrogance that makes it almost seem as if you know what you're talking about. Now that I think about it, it's quite laughable.lol. Epic failure on your part.

 

[Nekusagi]

I wasn't ever really slamming Jezebel, just pointing out some of their posters and their attitudes. And there are some really negative attitudes in the comments.

The "straw man" thing can go both ways.

 

[Jo-Jo]

Hole to Nomura: STOP DIGGING.

You think that your male co-workers are qualified to tell you when you're being a creep, but your female co-workers are a bunch of castrating harpies when they do it. You insist that I can't assess the situation because I wasn't there, but I only have your word as to how it went down, and you are scarcely objective. You still act as though it is immensely unreasonable that you should have to accommodate the women you work with in any way, and your right to say whatever you like should trump their right to not be made uncomfortable while they're at work. You believe that if a woman tells a man his behaviour is anti-social, she is TAKING AWAY HIS MANHOOD. You are a sexist tool. Good day to you.

@ Nekusagi - I don't understand why those Jezebel threads prove anything bad about feminists. Most of the negative comments were critical towards the fashion because... the poster didn't like the fashion. What's wrong with that?

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

Jo-Jo, you are blowing things WAAAAY out of porportion. Nomura wasn't looking at the gir and saying 'I WANNNA BANG YOUR FUCKING ASS OUTWITH MY BIG LONG SCHOLONG YA GREAT BIG GIANT PAIR OF TITS' no he was just saying wow. I'm pretty sure that most girls would be enamored by that. Maybe it would lead to them talking and forming a good relationship.

And secondly, how rude can you get saying that just because he's not dumb enough to fall for your rather flawed aggresive behavior is the reason he didn't get a schlarships.

Are YOU an extreme feminist, because you sure are acting like one.

 

[Fig]

Is that the best you can do? "You've been misled"?

When we've cited actual examples, and you just go "That's not how it is"?

Sorry, but you're the one coming across as uninformed and uneducated. Nobody here denies that there are feminists who are really out for the best, for equal rights, and to erase prejudice. What we do claim - what YOU deny - is that a lot of the more vocal feminists happens to be the more extremes one as well.

Yes, perhaps the one on the websites you hang out aren't these vocal extremists, but if you go from there to "They don't exist", or even "they don't matter", you're talking bull.

If they're the vocal ones, and the ones people hear, then they do, in fact, matter, and trying to dismiss them and people who point at them makes you look uninformed, or blind, or dishonest (or one of those rabid feminists yourself, therefore thinking that they're "good" feminists because what they say is "right", and your reaction to Nomura looks that way), take your pick.

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

Hole to Jo-Jo: STOP DIGGING.

You think that your male co-workers are qualified to tell you when you're being a creep, but your female co-workers are a bunch of castrating harpies when they do it. You insist that I can't assess the situation because I wasn't there, but I only have your word as to how it went down, and you are scarcely objective. You still act as though it is immensely unreasonable that you should have to accommodate the women you work with in any way, and your right to say whatever you like should trump their right to not be made uncomfortable while they're at work. You believe that if a woman tells a man his behaviour is anti-social, she is TAKING AWAY HIS MANHOOD. You are a sexist tool. Good day to you.

Once again, you are putting words into his mouth. Surprising, and especially he is just basically talking about double standards which is SHOCK HORROR what my topic is about. You have to realize that women can get away with a lot more than men. For example, if a woman got raped, most police automatically believes the women. If a man got raped by a women, then the police would laugh at himm saying he enjoyed it, could have left anytime, asked if it is even possible. That is what Nomura was trying to say until you threw this feminist crap all over him. It's starting to make me wonder if you're a HUGE Ann-Coulter like feminist.

And, besides if you really want feminism to happen then you must be prrepared to bot be grouped into the weak people (ie women, children the sick, the old) would you bear that in some countries. Would you want to fight the men who would possibly sooner rape and torture than kill you?

You are a feminist tool. Gooday.

 

[Nomura]

Just ignore her. She's merely taking away from what should be an intelligent conversation. I was trying to explain my side of things, but she'd rather come up with her own assumptions other than fact.

Now, we have things like the N word and Feminism on the table, what other kinds of double standards have you come across, or have just heard to be out there?

 

[MetaRobo]

Since this is The Soap Box, does anyone notice how readily accepted libertarianism is compared to socialism? Or am I just being paranoid based on political bias?

 

[Nomura]

Since this is The Soap Box, does anyone notice how readily accepted libertarianism is compared to socialism? Or am I just being paranoid based on political bias?

I was actually quite surprised, especially when this one dude in my political life class last quarter said everyone should start leaning that way, and quite a few people shook their heads in approval(or that's how it looked) and a couple more spoke in agreement.

 

[MetaRobo]

The delicious irony of that is that it's supposedly a political philosophy based on individualism, yet so many of its adherents act like religious zealots attempting to get everyone to, well, conform to individualism! It's hard to take seriously with that in mind. It might just be North America, but socialism seems to regarded as an ungodly evil in the vein of Soviet Communism despite there being many different ways to approach the ideal while libertarianism is kind of a way to make people feel anti-establishment while still supporting the capitalist structure of those on the top.

 

[Nomura]

The delicious irony of that is that it's supposedly a political philosophy based on individualism, yet so many of its adherents act like religious zealots attempting to get everyone to, well, conform to individualism! It's hard to take seriously with that in mind. It might just be North America, but socialism seems to regarded as an ungodly evil in the vein of Soviet Communism despite there being many different ways to approach the ideal while libertarianism is kind of a way to make people feel anti-establishment while still supporting the capitalist structure of those on the top.

Libertarianism is just an amusing concept to begin with. I mean, individualism...since when was that actually practiced? Everywhere I go I see people conforming to some form of social order...that's what most people(key word is most) do. So, they are trying to get people to conform to being themselves, even within a society whom's existence has rested upon conforming to one person or another.

There are a few other places in the world who find socialism an autrocity(though I can't think of any off the top of my head, one of my professors mentioned them last quarter). I personally find it ironic that we in the states find it so vile, though we still allow for some of its concepts to be practiced(social security and whatnot).

 

[Jo-Jo]

Jo-Jo, you are blowing things WAAAAY out of porportion. Nomura wasn't looking at the gir and saying 'I WANNNA BANG YOUR FUCKING ASS OUTWITH MY BIG LONG SCHOLONG YA GREAT BIG GIANT PAIR OF TITS' no he was just saying wow. I'm pretty sure that most girls would be enamored by that. Maybe it would lead to them talking and forming a good relationship.

No, you've missed my point.

Nomura has consistently argued that having women in the office negatively impacts his 'right' to "be a man". (Are these women forcing him to undertake gender reassignment??) He thinks that if all the women in his office take issue with his behaviour, then the problem must lie with them, because - this is the strong impression I get from everything he's posted - a) all men have an innate right to ogle women, and the women just have to put up with it even if it offends them, and b) the men are always the ones correctly assessing the situation, not the women. There is NO WAY, according to him, that maybe he was being a little inappropriate. According to him, any man is allowed to make remarks about hot women at any time he likes, at work. And if any women are made uncomfortable by this, well, tough - 'cause the most important thing at stake is the men's manhood, right?

How could the douche-baggery be more straightforward? He's explicitly saying that men's needs are more important than women's needs, and that if women try to curb the men's behaviour in any way, they're being castrating and unreasonable. How ridiculous is that? Furthermore, you are taking his version of events as the gospel truth, when for all you know he was kind of leering at the girl in the office. Or maybe he wasn't leering, but neither did the women come down on him as hard as he made out they did (possibly they were joking?). Or maybe he did get unfairly snapped at, because his line manager was sick and tired of reigning in the hormones of the other guys, and he was the straw that broke the camel's back. Either way, his interpretation that all the women are being sexist against him is fucking stupid and I don't believe it for a second.

And secondly, how rude can you get saying that just because he's not dumb enough to fall for your rather flawed aggresive behavior is the reason he didn't get a schlarships.

I think the entire thread degenerated into rudeness quite some time ago. I think it was pretty rude of him to outright claim that the only reason he didn't get the scholarship is because they wanted to pick the chick and the black guy. I get the impulse to spit nails any time someone claims white men are oppressed, actually. I'm crazy irrational like that.

Are YOU an extreme feminist, because you sure are acting like one.

LOL. Yeah, that's it. Wanna see my collection of amputated phalluses?

Is that the best you can do? "You've been misled"?

When we've cited actual examples, and you just go "That's not how it is"?

Excuse me??? ONE person posted two links. I read them and didn't know what she was objecting to. Nobody else has provided jack shit worth of proof. You've just spouted off a bunch of anti-feminist cliches that have been rebutted hundreds and hundreds of times.

Sorry, but you're the one coming across as uninformed and uneducated. Nobody here denies that there are feminists who are really out for the best, for equal rights, and to erase prejudice.

Why, how generous of you! That would be the VAST BULK of feminists you just gave reluctant lip-service to, there. Yes, pretty well all of us are out for the best, for equal rights, and to erase prejudice. In fact, I don't know anyone who isn't. Thanks so much for discounting the lot of us. I'm continually amazed as to how all you confessed non-feminists somehow know more about us than I do, when I'm the one who spends significant amount of time reading what feminists have to say.

What we do claim - what YOU deny - is that a lot of the more vocal feminists happens to be the more extremes one as well.

No. What I do claim - what YOU deny - is that most of the vocal ones aren't remotely extreme, and if you took the trouble to read anything they've written, you'd know this. But you haven't, so you don't.

Yes, perhaps the one on the websites you hang out aren't these vocal extremists

Yes, those big-name websites I hang out on that represent the mainstream rather than the nutso separatists you've managed to get hold of...

, but if you go from there to "They don't exist"

Which I didn't.

, or even "they don't matter", you're talking bull.

They matter in as much as they have influence. And frankly, they don't. Like I said, I don't even know who 'these people' are. Care to give me some examples?

If they're the vocal ones, and the ones people hear, then they do, in fact, matter, and trying to dismiss them and people who point at them makes you look uninformed, or blind, or dishonest, take your pick.

If they're the ones people hear, then you should be able to give me some names. I'm waiting.

I believe what you really mean by that is that they're the ones people hear about. You know... those feminists. The lesbians with, like, the leg hair and the special scalpels for castration that they carry around in their wallets (never purses!). You know... THEM! Hmm, ever actually met one of them? I sure haven't.

Face it, you're ranting about a stereotype. I don't have to defend feminism to you because you have no concept of what it really is, and no desire to educate yourself. So it looks like we're at a stalemate. I'm happy to knock it off if you are.

(Bloody hell, you people posted a lot...)

Once again, you are putting words into his mouth. Surprising, and especially he is just basically talking about double standards which is SHOCK HORROR what my topic is about.

Oh please, I practically quoted him word for word. And yeah, this topic is about double standards, which I was also talking about. Unless the double standards I talk about aren't as good as his are?? Which is altogether too meta for my liking.

You have to realize that women can get away with a lot more than men.

DO I??? Please, enlighten my tiny female brain!

For example, if a woman got raped, most police automatically believes the women.

You. Are. Shitting. Me.

Rape victims have TREMENDOUS difficulty being believed. Most of them never even come forward. Some of the worst "bitches lie" proponents are police, judges and lawyers, and the likelihood of obtaining a conviction in court is under 6%.

Plus, HELL YES the police should automatically believe the woman! If someone comes in to report a crime, it's the police's job to investigate it while assuming the complainant is telling the truth. Rape is probably the one crime where people start out doubting the testimony of the victim, yet the percentage of false complaints are no higher than for any other crime.

If a man got raped by a women, then the police would laugh at himm saying he enjoyed it, could have left anytime, asked if it is even possible.

You know what? Yes, male rape victims have an even harder time of it than female victims. They're less likely to come forward, be taken seriously, have the case make it to trial or get a conviction. You know how I know that (besides common sense)? I read it on feminist websites. Feminists are the likeliest group to sympathise with a man in that situation, because we know what women go through when they get raped. The least likely group to sympathise is other men.

Also, bit of bonus trivia for you, men are far likelier to be raped by another man than by a woman.

That is what Nomura was trying to say until you threw this feminist crap all over him.

WTF? Nomura never mentioned rape.

It's starting to make me wonder if you're a HUGE Ann-Coulter like feminist.

LMAO. The mere fact that you use 'feminist' as a pejorative proves that you are an asshat.

And, besides if you really want feminism to happen then you must be prrepared to bot be grouped into the weak people (ie women, children the sick, the old) would you bear that in some countries. Would you want to fight the men who would possibly sooner rape and torture than kill you?

I have no idea what you just said. A bit of grammar clean-up is in order, perhaps? But as far as I can gather, you just tried to use the prospect of rape and torture to scare me away from my evil arguments. What a class act you are. *thumbs up*