DP Ash vs XY Ash

[HiroHunter]

It definitely overshadowed the rest of the team, but it didn't take that much development away from the others. Gligar got an arc where Ash helped to bring out its potential. Ash traded away Ambipom to let it follow its own path, and trained Buizel. He defended Gible, trained it, and helped it learn Draco Meteor. Even though Torterra became a jobber, it still had a ton of focus with Ash.

DP utilized its time better, and the attention Ash gave to his Pokemon makes him look much better than his XY counterpart, I think. He helped his XY team, but not nearly to the extent of DP. Granted, DP had an extra year to work with, but XY still squandered a lot of the time they did have.

Taking into account how much of an involved, critical, and important character Infernape was to Ash's intense rivalry with Paul, I'd say it's entirely justified in this case. This was much bigger than anything Greninja got with Sawyer's Sceptile, Infernape wanted to prove Paul, the actual trainer, wrong, not just his Electivire. You can't compare them because Infernape actually had an excuse; this was as much its feud with Paul as it was Ash's. Infernape's unique role in DP meant it needed to get more attention.

On that note, you can't just defend Greninja's inhalation of focus and screentime purely on the basis of "someone else did it before so it's fine" either. That's a pretty weak and flimsy argument if I ever saw one.

And your both saying that the XY team didn't get any development? And if the DP team was as developed as you say then how come only Infernape won 50% of his battles?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

And your both saying that the XY team didn't get any development? And if the DP team was as developed as you say then how come only Infernape won 50% of his battles?

If you're looking at win/loss only as a meter of development, then I think you've got a very narrow definition of development.
A Pokemon losing 100% Of it’s battles can still be most developed member of the cast.

(Also imo XY Team is developed but DP Team is more developed. Noibat's evolution seemed rather forced to me)

 

[Karamazov]

And your both saying that the XY team didn't get any development? And if the DP team was as developed as you say then how come only Infernape won 50% of his battles?

I didn't say that his XY team didn't get any development. I'm saying that the DP team were more developed.

Noibat's growth and evolution was rushed and it barely did anything; even after it evolved, it one like one battle and either didn't finish the fight or lost every match. I love Noivern (and Noivern in general) but it doesn't look strong when it barely does anything and jobs all the time.

Compare that to Infernape. It lost a lot, but it was in a lot more battles. It was essential in several of Ash's victories. It had a story arc about its mistreatment at the hands of Paul, and how it learned to overcome that with Ash. We saw it grow up, learn to control Blaze, and show Paul just how far it was able to go without him. Battle percentages and statistics don't tell the full story: Infernape's proved itself time and time again.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

Speaking about Ash strictly as a trainer...I actually think that he was a bit more clever in DP. One big detail for me is his decision to bring back older Pokemon and update their movesets for new challenges in the Sinnoh League. Most notably, teaching Heracross Sleep Talk in preparation for both Nando and Darkrai. In XY, he's kinda paraded around as this wonderkid who can make up cool stuff on the fly, without having to think ahead of time...While more analytic characters like Sawyer and Clemont are left eating his dirt in shock.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Compare that to Infernape

Comparing Noivern to Infernape?

 

[Karamazov]

Comparing Noivern to Infernape?

You're right - it's an unfair comparison. It would have made more sense to compare it to Gible or Torterra. But I wanted to show that Infernape, despite having a notable loss record, was more than just its losses. Its actions and growth were better indicators of its performance. And I chose to compare it to Noivern to show a Pokemon with a similar record, but with worse execution.

 

[AtragicFairytale]

DP Ash and DP in general is superior to XY in every single way. Not that XY wasn't bad, rather DP was just that good

 

[Alola]

Oh wow. I'm actually very surprised at the results of this poll, at the moment.

I do have to agree though that Ash's DP team had much more development than his XY team. However in a battle, I believe his XY team could defeat his DP team.

 

[HiroHunter]

I didn't say that his XY team didn't get any development. I'm saying that the DP team were more developed.

Noibat's growth and evolution was rushed and it barely did anything; even after it evolved, it one like one battle and either didn't finish the fight or lost every match. I love Noivern (and Noivern in general) but it doesn't look strong when it barely does anything and jobs all the time.

Compare that to Infernape. It lost a lot, but it was in a lot more battles. It was essential in several of Ash's victories. It had a story arc about its mistreatment at the hands of Paul, and how it learned to overcome that with Ash. We saw it grow up, learn to control Blaze, and show Paul just how far it was able to go without him. Battle percentages and statistics don't tell the full story: Infernape's proved itself time and time again.

Ok DP Ash's team has more development than his XY team I agree with that, but I still think that XY Ash's team is stronger. Because if his DP team is as strong as you say then how come three of them got beaten by one of Paul's pokemon?

 

[Gengarzilla]

Ok DP Ash's team has more development than his XY team I agree with that, but I still think that XY Ash's team is stronger. Because if his DP team is as strong as you say then how come three of them got beaten by one of Paul's pokemon?

After calling me out for ignoring his clever tricks from before XYZ, you're now ignoring that time when three of his oh-so-glorious XY team were beaten by Wulfric's one Pokémon? I'm starting to feel as though you're desperately grasping at straws in this debate, frankly...

 

[HiroHunter]

After calling me out for ignoring his clever tricks from before XYZ, you're now ignoring that time when three of his oh-so-glorious XY team were beaten by Wulfric's one Pokémon? I'm starting to feel as though you're desperately grasping at straws in this debate, frankly...

And your ignoring that the lost was because Ash was not in the right state of mind when going into that battle and his pokemon where weaker because of that.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

IDK if DP was indeed that great of a trainer. Up till his full battle with Paul, his team was still largely unevolved. Buizel and Gible remained unevolved till the very end.

Anyway Ash's character is so bleargh and lacking in development in either. I preferred him in XY only because Serena's developing crush on him was cute and he had some really cool-boyfriend moments.

 

[Gengarzilla]

And your ignoring that the lost was because Ash was not in the right state of mind when going into that battle and his pokemon where weaker because of that.

But Ash had no reason to get himself that worked up over Sawyer's progress as a trainer, he was wrong to not be in the right state of mind, because he only blew it in their last battle once he began relying too much on Ash-Greninja to come through for him again. This was his own fault for leaning upon raw power and becoming such a one-dimensional battler with that Pokémon, as I know the Ash of past days would have worked around the disadvantage and won by using some insane balls-off-the-walls plan, the way his Charizard defeated Gary's Blastoise.
Yes, even the hugely dense OS Ash has been able to play smarter than this "Ace Trainer" incarnation when the odds were against him!

The difference in DP with your point is that Paul was legitimately getting under Ash's skin during practically all of their encounters throughout his Sinnoh journey. For Ash, to whom friendship with one's Pokémon is the most important thing, I'm sure it must have really bothered him to see someone eschew this one thing and still become a really strong trainer.
Back then, he was correct to not be in the right state of mind. Ash was under pressure to actually defend his very philosophy behind Pokémon training in the face of a tough critic; it's expected that he'd make mistakes here. XY Ash doesn't have that excuse.

 

[HiroHunter]

But Ash had no reason to get himself that worked up over Sawyer's progress as a trainer, he was wrong to not be in the right state of mind, because he only blew it in their last battle once he began relying too much on Ash-Greninja to come through for him again. This was his own fault for leaning upon raw power and becoming such a one-dimensional battler with that Pokémon, as I know the Ash of past days would have worked around the disadvantage and won by using some insane balls-off-the-walls plan, the way his Charizard defeated Gary's Blastoise.
Yes, even the hugely dense OS Ash has been able to play smarter than this "Ace Trainer" incarnation when the odds were against him!

The difference in DP with your point is that Paul was legitimately getting under Ash's skin during practically all of their encounters throughout his Sinnoh journey. For Ash, to whom friendship with one's Pokémon is the most important thing, I'm sure it must have really bothered him to see someone eschew this one thing and still become a really strong trainer.
Back then, he was correct to not be in the right state of mind. Ash was under pressure to actually defend his very philosophy behind Pokémon training in the face of a tough critic; it's expected that he'd make mistakes here. XY Ash doesn't have that excuse.

He on a high on winning so losing over and over not only started to weaken his pokemon it cost him to start thinking he lost his way and Serena helped him with that. I don't see that with DP Ash he never was never left thinking he lost his way when he lost to Paul.