Dragons that are not dragons?

[SharKing]

I find this an unfair analogy. Obviously the 'ryuu' in that name doesn't refer to dragons, while the 'dragon' in dragonfly can't really refer to anything else. The equivalent of that would probably be pulling out the word 'laughter' from 'slaughter' and saying it's relevant, not a portmanteau like dragonfly. Do you also claim that bathtubs have nothing to do with baths or tubs just because it's combined into one word?

Unfair though it may be, I've seen someone bring up the analogy before, which is why I brought it up in the first place.

 

[Articwolf10]

Tradition or no tradition isn't the point. Back in R/B/Y, there was no such thing as tradition. It began there. You could argue that we should be retconning one Pokemon every Gen with a single-type that deserves another type as was done with Magnemite and Magneton, if you follow that logic.

Hold on, I just thought of something else. It'll only be possible for a Pokemon to change a type on the next gen game after its debut appearance. Magnemite gained a steel typing in G/S/C after R/B/Y and Rotom's forms gained their respective typings to ditch Ghost in BW after Pt/HG/SS. That means Gyarados still lost his chance on gaining a dragon type back in Gen II.

I don't think Gyarados ever should've beenFlying tying it took him 4 Gens to get a single Flying attack ... he should've either been pure Water like Milotic or Water/Dragon we know it won't change ut Water/Flying makes no sense...

Oh another Pokemon who should be Dragon typed is Milotic she and Gyarados are already in the Dragon Egg group

Dragon types are suppose to be rare and hard to find, not common and easy to get, so you can't randomly give other Pokemon dragon typings.

The ony really rare Dragon is Dratini and Deino... The others are pretty easy to get. You can get a Gible and Axew rather early in Sinnoh and Unova...Swablu is verycommon in the route leading up to Meteor Falls and once you get Waterfall Bagan is easy to get you're getting really desperate....

Everything about Gyara and Milo scream Dragon... they are certenly more draconic then Alteria they learn many Dragon moves are in the Dragon egg group (which odly enough Flygon isn't) look like dragons and both are based on sea-serpents basicly water dragons

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Tradition or no tradition isn't the point. Back in R/B/Y, there was no such thing as tradition. It began there. You could argue that we should be retconning one Pokemon every Gen with a single-type that deserves another type as was done with Magnemite and Magneton, if you follow that logic.

Hold on, I just thought of something else. It'll only be possible for a Pokemon to change a type on the next gen game after its debut appearance. Magnemite gained a steel typing in G/S/C after R/B/Y and Rotom's forms gained their respective typings to ditch Ghost in BW after Pt/HG/SS. That means Gyarados still lost his chance on gaining a dragon type back in Gen II.

I don't think Gyarados ever should've beenFlying tying it took him 4 Gens to get a single Flying attack ... he should've either been pure Water like Milotic or Water/Dragon we know it won't change ut Water/Flying makes no sense...

Oh another Pokemon who should be Dragon typed is Milotic she and Gyarados are already in the Dragon Egg group

Dragon types are suppose to be rare and hard to find, not common and easy to get, so you can't randomly give other Pokemon dragon typings.

The ony really rare Dragon is Dratini and Deino... The others are pretty easy to get. You can get a Gible rather early in Sinnoh...Swablu is verycommon in the route leading up to Meteor Falls and once you get Waterfall Bagan is easy to get you're getting really desperate....

That's not what I meant. I mean they're rare in terms of how many there are in each gen/region.

 

[Articwolf10]

Tradition or no tradition isn't the point. Back in R/B/Y, there was no such thing as tradition. It began there. You could argue that we should be retconning one Pokemon every Gen with a single-type that deserves another type as was done with Magnemite and Magneton, if you follow that logic.

Hold on, I just thought of something else. It'll only be possible for a Pokemon to change a type on the next gen game after its debut appearance. Magnemite gained a steel typing in G/S/C after R/B/Y and Rotom's forms gained their respective typings to ditch Ghost in BW after Pt/HG/SS. That means Gyarados still lost his chance on gaining a dragon type back in Gen II.

I don't think Gyarados ever should've beenFlying tying it took him 4 Gens to get a single Flying attack ... he should've either been pure Water like Milotic or Water/Dragon we know it won't change ut Water/Flying makes no sense...

Oh another Pokemon who should be Dragon typed is Milotic she and Gyarados are already in the Dragon Egg group

Dragon types are suppose to be rare and hard to find, not common and easy to get, so you can't randomly give other Pokemon dragon typings.

The ony really rare Dragon is Dratini and Deino... The others are pretty easy to get. You can get a Gible rather early in Sinnoh...Swablu is verycommon in the route leading up to Meteor Falls and once you get Waterfall Bagan is easy to get you're getting really desperate....

That's not what I meant. I mean they're rare in terms of how many there are in each gen/region.

So there'd be 2 more Dragons... big whoop... you can'y say Water/Flying makes more sense then Water/Dragon? hell gyarados is based on a legend about a carp swimming up a waterfall and becoming a dragon

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

So there'd be 2 more Dragons... big whoop... you can'y say Water/Flying makes more sense then Water/Dragon?

It isn't a big whoop in terms of rarity in numbers. Point is, Gyarados had his chance to gain a dragon typing a Gen 2 just like how Magnemite gained a steel typing, but he didn't, so he's stuck being water/flying and a retconn for the tradition of having a Pokemon with that dual type for each gen.

 

[Articwolf10]

So there'd be 2 more Dragons... big whoop... you can'y say Water/Flying makes more sense then Water/Dragon?

It isn't a big whoop in terms of rarity in numbers. Point is, Gyarados had his chance to gain a dragon typing a Gen 2 just like how Magnemite gained a steel typing, but he didn't, so he's stuck being water/flying and a retconn for the tradition of having a Pokemon with that dual type for each gen.

DRAGON TYPES WOULD STILL BE RARE EVEN IF THOSE TWO WERE DRAGON TYPES!!!! and I know the type will never changed this is basicly about pokemon who should be dragon

 

[El_]

I dunno about Charizard to be honest. Hes a starter type, and the only ability that would work would be levitate. Though, due to pure nostalgia I would love it if he were a dragon type lol As he obviously is a dragon, but overall its not a big deal.

Now Gyarados, I agree with others that he should be Dragon/Water. Hes based on the legend of a carp transforming into a dragon. The only reason that he isn't one is because it was probably viewed at the time to be overpower'd. Theres also the issue of how easy it is to obtain Magicarp, and later on Gyarados. Still, I don't know for the life of me why they didn't just make Gyarados a pure water type if they feared him being too overpower'd. That would had been enough imo because Flying/Water is too much of a weakness.

Though the flying typing does allow him some cool switch ins on earthquake. (He is also still epically OU even as Water/Flying)

How do people feel about his Hoenn counterpart Milotic? Milotic seems kinda dragon like to me in the same way that Dragonair is.

 

[Articwolf10]

I dunno about Charizard to be honest. Hes a starter type, and the only ability that would work would be levitate. Though, due to pure nostalgia I would love it if he were a dragon type lol As he obviously is a dragon, but overall its not a big deal.

Now Gyarados, I agree with others that he should be Dragon/Water. Hes based on the legend of a carp transforming into a dragon. The only reason that he isn't one is because it was probably viewed at the time to be overpower'd. Theres also the issue of how easy it is to obtain Magicarp, and later on Gyarados. Still, I don't know for the life of me why they didn't just make Gyarados a pure water type if they feared him being too overpower'd. That would had been enough imo because Flying/Water is too much of a weakness.

Though the flying typing does allow him some cool switch ins on earthquake. (He is also still epically OU even as Water/Flying)

How do people feel about his Hoenn counterpart Milotic? Milotic seems kinda dragon like to me in the same way that Dragonair is.

Milotic should fefinitly be Water/Dragon as well shers proribly the best bulky Water type there and her Def stats afre great she'd be a pain to kill if she was part Dragon =) Yeah Gyara and Milo should be Dragons no reason they aren't... and the popel who say he would've been overpwoered in I... Gen I had no balence... Psychics were way overpowered

 

[smalllady]

Serperior?

Grass/Dragon would've been cool. But since he's a starter Pokemon, I guess that would be a no-no.

 

[El_]

Serperior would still have an 4x Ice weakness that Samurott could exploit, and Fighting moves and Fire moves from Emboar would still hit him neutrally. So there would be no problem about balance. 75/75 offenses means hes pretty much in check when you consider in-game or storymode play.

Problem is though Serperior is truly a serpent or a Snake. While Dragon would greatly help his coverage, I guess if they tried to pass him off as a Basilisk they could get away with it.

@Articwolf10

Yeah, I figured that Milotic could be passed as a Dragon. Since it is the counterpart to Gyarados, its only fair that they both be considered. They seem more dragonlike than Altaria anyways.

 

[Articwolf10]

Serperior would still have an 4x Ice weakness that Samurott could exploit, and Fighting moves and Fire moves from Emboar would still hit him neutrally. So there would be no problem about balance. 75/75 offenses means hes pretty much in check when you consider in-game or storymode play.

Problem is though Serperior is truly a serpent or a Snake. While Dragon would greatly help his coverage, I guess if they tried to pass him off as a Basilisk they could get away with it.

@Articwolf10

Yeah, I figured that Milotic could be passed as a Dragon. Since it is the counterpart to Gyarados, its only fair that they both be considered. They seem more dragonlike than Altaria anyways.

4x's weak to ice but he's faster then just about every Ice Type... Plus He'd ger Draco-Metoer which compined with Contrary and Leaf-Storm it wouldn't be fun at all he'd rape rape his counterparts...

but yeah never got why Alteria is part Dragon

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I dunno about Charizard to be honest. Hes a starter type, and the only ability that would work would be levitate. Though, due to pure nostalgia I would love it if he were a dragon type lol As he obviously is a dragon, but overall its not a big deal.

Now Gyarados, I agree with others that he should be Dragon/Water. Hes based on the legend of a carp transforming into a dragon. The only reason that he isn't one is because it was probably viewed at the time to be overpower'd. Theres also the issue of how easy it is to obtain Magicarp, and later on Gyarados. Still, I don't know for the life of me why they didn't just make Gyarados a pure water type if they feared him being too overpower'd. That would had been enough imo because Flying/Water is too much of a weakness.

Though the flying typing does allow him some cool switch ins on earthquake. (He is also still epically OU even as Water/Flying)

How do people feel about his Hoenn counterpart Milotic? Milotic seems kinda dragon like to me in the same way that Dragonair is.

Milotic should fefinitly be Water/Dragon as well shers proribly the best bulky Water type there and her Def stats afre great she'd be a pain to kill if she was part Dragon =) Yeah Gyara and Milo should be Dragons no reason they aren't... and the popel who say he would've been overpwoered in I... Gen I had no balence... Psychics were way overpowered

How many times do I have to tell you, Psychics were overpowered by an accident. They didn't mean to do it.

 

[Articwolf10]

I dunno about Charizard to be honest. Hes a starter type, and the only ability that would work would be levitate. Though, due to pure nostalgia I would love it if he were a dragon type lol As he obviously is a dragon, but overall its not a big deal.

Now Gyarados, I agree with others that he should be Dragon/Water. Hes based on the legend of a carp transforming into a dragon. The only reason that he isn't one is because it was probably viewed at the time to be overpower'd. Theres also the issue of how easy it is to obtain Magicarp, and later on Gyarados. Still, I don't know for the life of me why they didn't just make Gyarados a pure water type if they feared him being too overpower'd. That would had been enough imo because Flying/Water is too much of a weakness.

Though the flying typing does allow him some cool switch ins on earthquake. (He is also still epically OU even as Water/Flying)

How do people feel about his Hoenn counterpart Milotic? Milotic seems kinda dragon like to me in the same way that Dragonair is.

Milotic should fefinitly be Water/Dragon as well shers proribly the best bulky Water type there and her Def stats afre great she'd be a pain to kill if she was part Dragon =) Yeah Gyara and Milo should be Dragons no reason they aren't... and the popel who say he would've been overpwoered in I... Gen I had no balence... Psychics were way overpowered

How many times do I have to tell you, Psychics were overpowered by an accident. They didn't mean to do it.

And I keep on telling you why do you try to put balence in Gen I when there was none... Water/Dragon still would not have been near as Over-powered as Psychics and his secondary STAB would be uselesss

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

And I keep on telling you why do you try to put balence in Gen I when there was none... Water/Dragon still would not have been near as Over-powered as Psychics and his secondary STAB would be uselesss

It's because they didn't know Gen I would as unbalanced as we see it now.

 

[Chriiiis]

Serperior would still have an 4x Ice weakness that Samurott could exploit, and Fighting moves and Fire moves from Emboar would still hit him neutrally. So there would be no problem about balance. 75/75 offenses means hes pretty much in check when you consider in-game or storymode play.

Problem is though Serperior is truly a serpent or a Snake. While Dragon would greatly help his coverage, I guess if they tried to pass him off as a Basilisk they could get away with it.

@Articwolf10

Yeah, I figured that Milotic could be passed as a Dragon. Since it is the counterpart to Gyarados, its only fair that they both be considered. They seem more dragonlike than Altaria anyways.

4x's weak to ice but he's faster then just about every Ice Type... Plus He'd ger Draco-Metoer which compined with Contrary and Leaf-Storm it wouldn't be fun at all he'd rape rape his counterparts...

but yeah never got why Alteria is part Dragon

Just as you say Altaria doesn't look dragon or whatever(which is one of the reasons why you say they shouldn't have the typing), just because Gyarados looks like one doesn't mean he has to have the typing. Imo, I thought the Altaria concept was interesting. I do agree with how maybe Gyara should've been a pure water type at least though.

We are at a point now with the games where tons of Pokemon have moves/sets that make almost no sense, so moves shouldn't really be taken into account so much either, imo.

Also, going along with Ghet's 'rarity' statement about Dragons, I think that should've been enough to at least get Milotic dragon status, considering how much of a pain it is to catch Feebas in comparison with Magikarp, which are all over.

 

[Articwolf10]

Serperior would still have an 4x Ice weakness that Samurott could exploit, and Fighting moves and Fire moves from Emboar would still hit him neutrally. So there would be no problem about balance. 75/75 offenses means hes pretty much in check when you consider in-game or storymode play.

Problem is though Serperior is truly a serpent or a Snake. While Dragon would greatly help his coverage, I guess if they tried to pass him off as a Basilisk they could get away with it.

@Articwolf10

Yeah, I figured that Milotic could be passed as a Dragon. Since it is the counterpart to Gyarados, its only fair that they both be considered. They seem more dragonlike than Altaria anyways.

4x's weak to ice but he's faster then just about every Ice Type... Plus He'd ger Draco-Metoer which compined with Contrary and Leaf-Storm it wouldn't be fun at all he'd rape rape his counterparts...

but yeah never got why Alteria is part Dragon

Just as you say Altaria doesn't look dragon or whatever(which is one of the reasons why you say they shouldn't have the typing), just because Gyarados looks like one doesn't mean he has to have the typing. Imo, I thought the Altaria concept was interesting. I do agree with how maybe Gyara should've been a pure water type at least though.

We are at a point now with the games where tons of Pokemon have moves/sets that make almost no sense, so moves shouldn't really be taken into account so much either, imo.

Also, going along with Ghet's 'rarity' statement about Dragons, I think that should've been enough to at least get Milotic dragon status, considering how much of a pain it is to catch Feebas in comparison with Magikarp, which are all over.

Then Alteria definitly shouldn't be Dragon seeing how common Swablu is adding in that it doesn't look draconic at all... and only Dratini and Deino are actually hard to get... You can get Axew and Gible pretty early in-game and they aren't really hard to find either... Tripinch is very easy to find in the desert yet Flygon is a Dragon... and once you get Waterfall Bagon is easy to find...

So Dragon's aren't exactly 'rare' per se as most are rather common in certian area's the only ones that would count as rare are as I said Dratini and Deino as both are annoying rare (damn you Safari Zone) to find...

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Then Alteria definitly shouldn't be Dragon seeing how common Swablu is adding in that it doesn't look draconic at all... and only Dratini and Deino are actually hard to get... You can get Axew and Gible pretty early in-game and they aren't really hard to find either... Tripinch is very easy to find in the desert yet Flygon is a Dragon... and once you get Waterfall Bagon is easy to find...

So Dragon's aren't exactly 'rare' per se as most are rather common in certian area's the only ones that would count as rare are as I said Dratini and Deino as both are annoying rare (damn you Safari Zone) to find...

Must we go over this? Rarity does not determine their location; it is determined by how many there are in each gen. Excluding legendaries, Kanto had only one line, Johto had one, Hoenn had three, Sinnoh had one, and Unova had three. So far, three lines is the limit of dragon types for each gen.

 

[Pomegranate]

Then Alteria definitly shouldn't be Dragon seeing how common Swablu is adding in that it doesn't look draconic at all... and only Dratini and Deino are actually hard to get... You can get Axew and Gible pretty early in-game and they aren't really hard to find either... Tripinch is very easy to find in the desert yet Flygon is a Dragon... and once you get Waterfall Bagon is easy to find...

So Dragon's aren't exactly 'rare' per se as most are rather common in certian area's the only ones that would count as rare are as I said Dratini and Deino as both are annoying rare (damn you Safari Zone) to find...

Must we go over this? Rarity does not determine their location; it is determined by how many there are in each gen. Excluding legendaries, Kanto had only one line, Johto had one, Hoenn had three, Sinnoh had one, and Unova had three. So far, three lines is the limit of dragon types for each gen.

Well to be fair, if they made Gyarados a Dragon-type that wouldn't put them over the limit that they have right now, so I'm not sure that's a really great point.

I wouldn't want Milotic as a Dragon type though...I'm not really sure why. It just doesn't fit well imo.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Well to be fair, if they made Gyarados a Dragon-type that wouldn't put them over the limit that they have right now, so I'm not sure that's a really great point.

It was already explained that Gyarados gaining a dragon typing back in Gen 1 would only make him overpowered considering that the useless move known as Dragon Rage was the only move available at that time. Now that it was expanded in Gen II, it was Gyarados's chance to ditch the flying type for dragon, but sadly, he didn't, so he's stuck being the retconn for water/flying tradition.

 

[Articwolf10]

Ad again the attempt at Balence was absutly pointless in the long run as balence didn't exist... I guess they wasted their time on maing sure Gyarados wasn't overpowered (and he wouldn't be honestly Mewtwo and Alakazam would probibly still have raped him) they forgot to balece everything else... an arguent of balece as I said several times is pointless as there was no balence because Psychics were game-breakers... on purpose or not stop using the he would've been overpowered as Psychics were way more broken then Water/Dragon Gyarados would ever be...

And damn two more Dragons wouldn;'t make the Dragon type any less rare... it would still be the 2nd rarest type eitrher way