Dragons that are not dragons?

[Envoy]

That way, none of them are over-powered and they're all given equal chances. And as for noting that Serperior has 4x weakness to Ice? We can have Serperior have higher speed and defense than the other two - at least preventing it from being OHKO'd when they're all at the same level. Or introduce a new ability for grass-types that weakens Ice attacks (something similar to Thick Fat, but NOT Thick Fat.)

Dragonite has better defenses than Serperior and still gets OHKO'd by any halfway decent Ice Beam without Multi-Scale. Serpy's gonna need more than it's defenses and it's shitty HP to survive an Ice Beam from...uh...anyone.

 

[Almonds]

That way, none of them are over-powered and they're all given equal chances. And as for noting that Serperior has 4x weakness to Ice? We can have Serperior have higher speed and defense than the other two - at least preventing it from being OHKO'd when they're all at the same level. Or introduce a new ability for grass-types that weakens Ice attacks (something similar to Thick Fat, but NOT Thick Fat.)

Dragonite has better defenses than Serperior and still gets OHKO'd by any halfway decent Ice Beam without Multi-Scale. Serpy's gonna need more than it's defenses and it's shitty HP to survive an Ice Beam from...uh...anyone.

Then maybe we can give it an ability that would half-absorb any Ice attacks and restore HP or increase stats, and halve the damage.

 

[Thanatos]

Something to do with size? You do realize Scizor is higher AND heavier than Volcarona?

Gengar made a better explanation than I did.

Gengar is only bigger cause they measured the distance between haunter and the floor too.

It is commonly said that that's what the beast trio once was. And if you don't believe that, they are based on the course the tower went through. Lightining struck it, fire engulfed it, And water save it from complete destruction. I don't exactly see any dragon in there.

No it isn't, they only said that three unknown Pokemon were perished in a fire and were later given new bodies by Ho-oh.

And it was almost definetly the eevee evos. Makes sense, no?

 

[Pomegranate]

Gengar is only bigger cause they measured the distance between haunter and the floor too.

He meant GengarEatsBanana answered the Volcarona question earlier better than he could.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

If it's really unfair for Charizard to be a dragon-type, then in the next gen we could have revised types

Like, having all the final stages acquire Dragon-types.

Charizard being Fire-Dragon - lizard
Serperior being Grass-Dragon - snake
Ferligatre being Water-Dragon - crocodile

All of them have reptile-related themes, so it wouldn't be exactly weird for them to have Dragon as a secondary type, no?

This would only happen if they gained a new secondary typing on their second game since their debut appearance. Neither Charizard nor Feraligatr learned it, and I doubt Serperior will get it next gen.

And it was almost definetly the eevee evos. Makes sense, no?

No, because it sounds more like mere speculation w/o evidence.

 

[El_]

Really? Dragons ARE flying reptiles. Aerodactyl is a dragon without the 3rd pair of limbs. It has a very dragon-like tail, wings like a dragons, it's head looks like a dragons.

IMO Aero should have been dragon/rock. Dragon is often used in replacement for flying, so it would have made a whole load of sense. Just like Druddigon, except in Gen I.

No... Dragons are mythical animals. By your logic, real life Pterosaurs are in fact Dragons.

Also, when has Dragon substituted for Flying?

@Ghetsis-Dennis

He is sort of based on both. (Dinos/Pteros) The way that you revive him from old amber draws allusions to Jurassic Park, but I guess that went both ways in the movies. People don't usually separate the two groups Dinosaurs/Pterosaurs like they are suppose to be.

On another note, and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I disagree with the notion that every single reptile should be called Dragons. We certainly don't call our lizards/snakes/crocodiles and alligators Dragons, and the same logic should be applied here.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

On another note, and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I disagree with the notion that every single reptile should be called Dragons. We certainly don't call our lizards/snakes/crocodiles and alligators Dragons, and the same logic should be applied here.

They can, however, learn a few dragon moves hear and there without being categorized as a dragon. That way, they still retain their original types.

 

[Pomegranate]

Also, when has Dragon substituted for Flying?

I think they're referring to the fact that Lati@s can fly (and learn Fly), as well as Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem, and Flygon/Hydreigon. None of those have a Flying type but they all can fly because when you think about dragons, by default you think of them with wings and flying, it's just how dragons are thought of.

 

[Almonds]

Also, when has Dragon substituted for Flying?

I think they're referring to the fact that Lati@s can fly (and learn Fly), as well as Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem, and Flygon/Hydreigon. None of those have a Flying type but they all can fly because when you think about dragons, by default you think of them with wings and flying, it's just how dragons are thought of.

Good point. But as for the Latis and Flygon... it's got Levitate for explanation...

Though, anyways - I know Dragons are mythical creatures and they can take any form we imagine, but the most popular image we thing is similar to reptiles. They got dragon scales stuff so I think reptile-based pokemons COULD acquire a dragon-type.

 

[El_]

I think they're referring to the fact that Lati@s can fly (and learn Fly), as well as Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem, and Flygon/Hydreigon. None of those have a Flying type but they all can fly because when you think about dragons, by default you think of them with wings and flying, it's just how dragons are thought of.

I see. Though most of the Dragons on that list are legendary. It would also be very boring if every single Dragon needed to be flying type in order to fly.

But I agree that is what the imagery of Dragons suggest. Even the Chinese Dragons who had no wings could fly. However, there are exceptions like Haxorus's family and Druddgion, and not every Dragon in myth could fly.

Though, anyways - I know Dragons are mythical creatures and they can take any form we imagine, but the most popular image we thing is similar to reptiles. They got dragon scales stuff so I think reptile-based pokemons COULD acquire a dragon-type.

Thats also true, but there is a clear difference at times. Gyarados for example is obviously based on a Chinese Dragon, and it doesn't resemble any known animal discovered to date. With that much a fantastical appearance and what hes based on he deserves the type change to Dragon.

However, Treecko's line as well as Snivy's are based on animals that we know exist or existed: geckos, snakes, and for Treeck's later forms dinosaurs. If they made them dragons, then why shouldn't others like Cranidos/Shelgon also become Dragons? Dinosaurs are closest to Dragons in imagery afterall. Feraligatr was also brought up, but what about Crookodile?

So you see, if you made those few Dragons, alot of others would automatically be brought up. That also reduces the Dragon's rarity by a bit. I can understand why consider Charizard though, as he looks far more like a very typical Dragon than any reptile that we know of. Milotic as well basically being based on a sea serpent and is the Hoenn counterpart to Gyarados.

I'm just looking at this realistically, as Dragons are still mythical creatures rather than real life reptiles.

 

[Easter Egg]

I think Gyarados should be dragon type. I don't think Charizard should because he's a starter.
And I don't think Altaria should be dragon type, it makes no sense.

 

[Thanatos]

Gengar is only bigger cause they measured the distance between haunter and the floor too.

He meant GengarEatsBanana answered the Volcarona question earlier better than he could.

Oh...EPIC FAIL.

No... Dragons are mythical animals. By your logic, real life Pterosaurs are in fact Dragons.

Also, when has Dragon substituted for Flying?

Not exactly. Dragons are winged reptiles. Ptrosaurs are winged reptiles. I'm connecting them, not refering to them as the same thing.

Dragon could have easily been flying quite a few times. I just mean, dragons are usually said to be able to fly, so dragon can sub for flying.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Not exactly. Dragons are winged reptiles. Ptrosaurs are winged reptiles. I'm connecting them, not refering to them as the same thing.

Dragon could have easily been flying quite a few times. I just mean, dragons are usually said to be able to fly, so dragon can sub for flying.

What you'e simply doing is comparing apples to oranges, and not all dragons can fly.

 

[Articwolf10]

That way, none of them are over-powered and they're all given equal chances. And as for noting that Serperior has 4x weakness to Ice? We can have Serperior have higher speed and defense than the other two - at least preventing it from being OHKO'd when they're all at the same level. Or introduce a new ability for grass-types that weakens Ice attacks (something similar to Thick Fat, but NOT Thick Fat.)

Dragonite has better defenses than Serperior and still gets OHKO'd by any halfway decent Ice Beam without Multi-Scale. Serpy's gonna need more than it's defenses and it's shitty HP to survive an Ice Beam from...uh...anyone.

Not really... He has higher HP but his Def's are pretty much the same (though his SDef is 5 points higher) And Serperior's HP is definitly not shitty... 75 HP is very solid with his 95/95 defenses... plus Serperior outspeeds every Ice Type and I doubt many Ice Types can handle a Contrary boosted LS as Ice is a terrible defensive type... All Serpior really needs is his hidden ability released and his move-poll expanded (Maybe give him Earth-Power and T-Bolt for coverage and maybe Overheat for the lolz) He's an ideal sweeper with Contary... very solid bulk (75/95/95) Managble Offense stats (75/75) and excellent speed (113) what he's missing is coverage which can be fixed when Grey introduces move-tudors)

 

[Envoy]

First off: 91/95/100 are decidedly better defenses than 75/95/95.

Two: The power creep of Gen V means that those otherwise decent defensive stats are actually pretty lackluster. I'll say what I've always said about Serperior. If it had debuted last Generation, it would have been a monster wall. However, it debuted this Generation. The Generation that introduced guys like Chandelure and Darmanitan, that gave us perma sun and perma rain in OU, that dropped Mew, Deoxys-D, Latias, Latios and Salamence from Uber and brought with it the likes of Victini and Kyurem (both available in standard play.) With things hitting harder than ever, Serperior's defenses just won't cut it. At all. In fact, the main reason Dragonite is seen as competent this Generation is because of Multiscale, giving it an extra layer of bulk to abuse with his already-better-than-Serperior's defenses.

Three: Because of the same power creep that limits its defensive potential, 75/75 offenses (passable in previous Generations) is pure crap this Gen. Evidenced by the fact that Serperior absolutely needs Contrary to be more than a joke offensively. Contrary doesn't boost its offensive potential, it's not a boon or an asset. Contrary is Serperior's offensive potential. It is absolutely essential to it in the same way Multiscale is essential to Dragonite. Without it, nobody with half a brain would ever use Serperior offensively.

Four: Serperior doesn't really have to fear Ice types very much. It has to fear Ice attacks. Keeping in mind that a Choice Scarf on Serperior is absolutely pointless and thus nobody with an ounce of self respect would ever add one to it, Serperior has to fear Ice type moves from Pokemon of all types who have use for them. Venusaur in the sun will outspeed and KO with Hidden Power [Ice,] if Gorebyss finds the opening to use a Shell Smash, she will KO with Ice Beam. Dragon Dance Dragonite with Ice Punch. Specs Lati@s or Salamence, specially defensive Milotic or Blastoise. DDance Feraligatr or Gyarados, Sceptile with HP [Ice,] Scarfed Water types provided they don't come in on a Grass type move. These are all threats Serperior will be facing and have trouble dealing with. It's not just Ice types. Add to that the fact that Serperior's initial Leaf Storm (factoring in Contrary) will hit for mediocre damage due to its poor Sp. Atk and that everything and its mother resists Grass. If the designated counter comes in before Serperior can set up (like all good counters should,) then Serpy will have no choice but to switch out (or die. Whichever.)

Five: Contrary Serperior will never get anywhere without coverage moves. It's fun to speculate which moves Serperior could get, but you can't treat it as a valid argument for anything because it's pure speculation. For all we know, the best move Serperior will get in Grey will be String Shot or some such nonsense. Furthermore, without the neutral coverage to make up for Leaf Storm's poor offenses, Serperior will get absolutely nowhere. It will be walled by every Dragon, Steel and Grass/Poison type in the game. Now, admittedly, it is a safe assumption that a Grass/Dragon Serperior would get Draco Meteor which, combined with Leaf Storm and Contrary, could be so good to take it to OU and beyond (simply because of DM's excellent neutral coverage) but we cannot say with any kind of certainty that it will (or even should) get Earth Power, T-Bolt (lolwut?) or Overheat (LMFAO.)

Of course, I'm talking about a Grass/Dragon Serperior. As it stands (with Serperior being a pure Grass type and likely to remain that way,) Serperior is the farthest thing from an ideal sweeper even with Contrary, because of its terrible coverage.

 

[Articwolf10]

First off: 91/95/100 are decidedly better defenses than 75/95/95.

Two: The power creep of Gen V means that those otherwise decent defensive stats are actually pretty lackluster. I'll say what I've always said about Serperior. If it had debuted last Generation, it would have been a monster wall. However, it debuted this Generation. The Generation that introduced guys like Chandelure and Darmanitan, that gave us perma sun and perma rain in OU, that dropped Mew, Deoxys-D, Latias, Latios and Salamence from Uber and brought with it the likes of Victini and Kyurem (both available in standard play.) With things hitting harder than ever, Serperior's defenses just won't cut it. At all. In fact, the main reason Dragonite is seen as competent this Generation is because of Multiscale, giving it an extra layer of bulk to abuse with his already-better-than-Serperior's defenses.

Three: Because of the same power creep that limits its defensive potential, 75/75 offenses (passable in previous Generations) is pure crap this Gen. Evidenced by the fact that Serperior absolutely needs Contrary to be more than a joke offensively. Contrary doesn't boost its offensive potential, it's not a boon or an asset. Contrary is Serperior's offensive potential. It is absolutely essential to it in the same way Multiscale is essential to Dragonite. Without it, nobody with half a brain would ever use Serperior offensively.

Four: Serperior doesn't really have to fear Ice types very much. It has to fear Ice attacks. Keeping in mind that a Choice Scarf on Serperior is absolutely pointless and thus nobody with an ounce of self respect would ever add one to it, Serperior has to fear Ice type moves from Pokemon of all types who have use for them. Venusaur in the sun will outspeed and KO with Hidden Power [Ice,] if Gorebyss finds the opening to use a Shell Smash, she will KO with Ice Beam. Dragon Dance Dragonite with Ice Punch. Specs Lati@s or Salamence, specially defensive Milotic or Blastoise. DDance Feraligatr or Gyarados, Sceptile with HP [Ice,] Scarfed Water types provided they don't come in on a Grass type move. These are all threats Serperior will be facing and have trouble dealing with. It's not just Ice types. Add to that the fact that Serperior's initial Leaf Storm (factoring in Contrary) will hit for mediocre damage due to its poor Sp. Atk and that everything and its mother resists Grass. If the designated counter comes in before Serperior can set up (like all good counters should,) then Serpy will have no choice but to switch out (or die. Whichever.)

Five: Contrary Serperior will never get anywhere without coverage moves. It's fun to speculate which moves Serperior could get, but you can't treat it as a valid argument for anything because it's pure speculation. For all we know, the best move Serperior will get in Grey will be String Shot or some such nonsense. Furthermore, without the neutral coverage to make up for Leaf Storm's poor offenses, Serperior will get absolutely nowhere. It will be walled by every Dragon, Steel and Grass/Poison type in the game. Now, admittedly, it is a safe assumption that a Grass/Dragon Serperior would get Draco Meteor which, combined with Leaf Storm and Contrary, could be so good to take it to OU and beyond (simply because of DM's excellent neutral coverage) but we cannot say with any kind of certainty that it will (or even should) get Earth Power, T-Bolt (lolwut?) or Overheat (LMFAO.)

Of course, I'm talking about a Grass/Dragon Serperior. As it stands (with Serperior being a pure Grass type and likely to remain that way,) Serperior is the farthest thing from an ideal sweeper even with Contrary, because of its terrible coverage.

I did say it If he had more coverage he would be a fantastic sweeper... Contary Serperior would be deadly and a Grass/Dragon Serperior would almost be broken... I mean Leaf-Storm AND Draco-Meteor? ouch.. He is built around Contrary I think the ability was built with him in mind... I could see him learning Earth-Power, Maybe T-Bolt and Shadow Ball and possibly Sludge-Bomb and Sludge-Wave?

 

[Envoy]

I did say it If he had more coverage he would be a fantastic sweeper... Contary Serperior would be deadly and a Grass/Dragon Serperior would almost be broken... I mean Leaf-Storm AND Draco-Meteor? ouch.. He is built around Contrary I think the ability was built with him in mind... I could see him learning Earth-Power, Maybe T-Bolt and Shadow Ball and possibly Sludge-Bomb and Sludge-Wave?

No. None of those moves make the slightest bit of sense. I can let Earth Power slide, but if Serperior gets it then I demand Meganium, Venusaur and Sceptile also get it. There's no reason at all why Serperior would be more deserving of it than them.

As for Contrary, it's an ability that is more coveted than the Pokemon wielding it, kind of like Politoed/Ninetales with Drizzle/Drought. The difference being that, even though Ninetales and Politoed are otherwise unremarkable Pokemon in every possible way, their abilities at the very least can support the whole team. Contrary Serperior is a more selfish option.

Furthermore, Contrary itself is an ability that is only as useful as the Pokemon wielding it. Sure, [pure Grass] Serperior's offensive presence will improve greatly once it's released, but think about it. What can Serperior really do with Contrary? Assuming its movepool remains the same by the time the third version rolls around, Serperior's moveset will probably look something like this: Leaf Storm/Hidden Power [Fire/Ice]/filler/filler.

Keeping in mind that all Starter Pokemon with Dream World abilities have been male (and thus can't pass on their abilities via breeding,) Serperior won't even get to use Glare on a Contrary set. The rest of its movepool is crap.

Chances are, Contrary will just be used to give Subseeding Serperior a little more umph power, since it can't even sweep properly due to its lackluster movepool.

I will concede that a Grass/Dragon Serperior with access to Draco Meteor would be highly effective and wouldn't fall to many of the same trappings that screw over the current Serperior, but in real life, this is what we have to deal with.

 

[Articwolf10]

I did say it If he had more coverage he would be a fantastic sweeper... Contary Serperior would be deadly and a Grass/Dragon Serperior would almost be broken... I mean Leaf-Storm AND Draco-Meteor? ouch.. He is built around Contrary I think the ability was built with him in mind... I could see him learning Earth-Power, Maybe T-Bolt and Shadow Ball and possibly Sludge-Bomb and Sludge-Wave?

No. None of those moves make the slightest bit of sense. I can let Earth Power slide, but if Serperior gets it then I demand Meganium, Venusaur and Sceptile also get it. There's no reason at all why Serperior would be more deserving of it than them.

As for Contrary, it's an ability that is more coveted than the Pokemon wielding it, kind of like Politoed/Ninetales with Drizzle/Drought. The difference being that, even though Ninetales and Politoed are otherwise unremarkable Pokemon in every possible way, their abilities at the very least can support the whole team. Contrary Serperior is a more selfish option.

Furthermore, Contrary itself is an ability that is only as useful as the Pokemon wielding it. Sure, [pure Grass] Serperior's offensive presence will improve greatly once it's released, but think about it. What can Serperior really do with Contrary? Assuming its movepool remains the same by the time the third version rolls around, Serperior's moveset will probably look something like this: Leaf Storm/Hidden Power [Fire/Ice]/filler/filler.

Keeping in mind that all Starter Pokemon with Dream World abilities have been male (and thus can't pass on their abilities via breeding,) Serperior won't even get to use Glare on a Contrary set. The rest of its movepool is crap.

Chances are, Contrary will just be used to give Subseeding Serperior a little more umph power, since it can't even sweep properly due to its lackluster movepool.

I will concede that a Grass/Dragon Serperior with access to Draco Meteor would be highly effective and wouldn't fall to many of the same trappings that screw over the current Serperior, but in real life, this is what we have to deal with.

All the others get EQ and he doesn't so he can have Earth-Power fairs fair... He is a snake so him learning a poison attack wouldn't be so weird... And lots of Pokemon get weird moves from move-tudors...

And Scizor has a selfish abilty as well... Serperior with good enough coverage can rip apart teams and maybe he could get recover for healing? with his bulk boosted offensive stats and a relible recovery move he'd be a beast... compared to his bro's his problem can be be fixed rather easily...

 

[Thanatos]

Not exactly. Dragons are winged reptiles. Ptrosaurs are winged reptiles. I'm connecting them, not refering to them as the same thing.

Dragon could have easily been flying quite a few times. I just mean, dragons are usually said to be able to fly, so dragon can sub for flying.

What you'e simply doing is comparing apples to oranges, and not all dragons can fly.

If you read carefully I said usually they can fly.

 

[TheCapsFan]

How the hell does Kingdra know Dragon Dance?