SwSh Dynamax: Thoughts, Feelings, or Concerns

[Phosphene]

Dynamaxing is officially banned from Smogon Metagames.

For those that are curious, here’s a write up.

 

[Daenerys]

Dynamaxing is officially banned from Smogon Metagames.

Dynamax got banned within a month of Shield and Sword's release? God works quick, but Smogon works quicker.

 

[Matleo]

they ban pokemon, moves, abilities and mechanics... poor losers that only ban and no strategy.

I hope that all 3 mechanics stay and will be available in future to use somehow. Dynamax could work in other regions via a Item.

Interesting that it creates a potential to create more flinching, switching and weight based moves in future.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

they ban pokemon, moves, abilities and mechanics... poor losers that only ban and no strategy.

They banned it because it discouraged a variety of strategy.

I hope that all 3 mechanics stay

Too late.

Interesting that it creates a potential to create more flinching, switching and weight based moves in future.

They're not going to make more just because of Dynamax.

 

[Matleo]

They banned it because it discouraged a variety of strategy.

Too late.

They're not going to make more just because of Dynamax.

discouraged?
something that only one pokemon from your party can use for 3 turns?

wait or does it mean that if you got a 6vs6 each of your pokemon can dynamax?
I though its a 1 pokemon for 3 turns thing, how can it discourage strategies?
I would say it makes more courage ones.

Interesting if Arceus can create Dynamax energy and if it will be different from Eternatus? or if Dynamax and Gigantamax could change after Eternatus went to sleep? what if then more power goes into form change and the pokemon gain 1/10 hp every turn or get other abilities in those forms?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

discouraged?
something that only one pokemon from your party can use for 3 turns?

There are multiple page explanations on the Smogon forums elaborating on it from the mods.

 

[Matleo]

There are multiple page explanations on the Smogon forums elaborating on it from the mods.

Would be nice to see how would they elaborate it if we would make it in future compete with megas, z-moves and other things what they have banned?

Hmmm what Pokemon with Gigantamax or Dynamax could take on Mega Ryquaza, P. Kyorge and P.Groudon?
With exception of Eternatus

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

future compete with megas, z-moves and other things what they have banned?

Smogon did not ban Megas and Z-Moves. You can thank GameFreak for that. Smogon are just in essence fans like Serebii which make their own custom rules for people to have fun. You can try their national Dex format for the purpose which includes everything GameFreak cut.

 

[Matleo]

Smogon did not ban Megas and Z-Moves. You can thank GameFreak for that. Smogon are just in essence fans like Serebii which make their own custom rules for people to have fun. You can try their national Dex format for the purpose which includes everything GameFreak cut.

GF stated that they are still in the universe, also the profesor stated that... interesting maybe Eternatus was the reason both werent working in Galar and trapping it could maybe change that? or trainers there didnt knew Megas or Z-moves so good there back then?
The professor stated about reserchears from other regions...

 

[ThatAsianInTheCorner]

Gigantamax Meowth is a godsend

I love my long boye

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

GF stated that they are still in the universe, also the profesor stated that... interesting maybe Eternatus was the reason both werent working in Galar and trapping it could maybe change that? or trainers there didnt knew Megas or Z-moves so good there back then?
The professor stated about reserchears from other regions...

“the professor stated that”
Which professor mentioned Megas and Z-Moves in Galar?

There’s no way to use mega evolution or Z-Moves in Galar because GameFreak removed them, and Smogon is just following that in the meta based on Sword and Shield by banning things that are not in... sword and shield.

Lore is in no way involved in the situation. Smogon took the base format GaneFreak set for this game, no more and they shouldn’t be blamed for GF removing Z-Moves and Megas. In fact they created a specific meta game so you can use all of them if you want. That should satisfy your urge to use Dynamax, Z-Moves and Megas.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

discouraged?
something that only one pokemon from your party can use for 3 turns?

wait or does it mean that if you got a 6vs6 each of your pokemon can dynamax?
I though its a 1 pokemon for 3 turns thing, how can it discourage strategies?
I would say it makes more courage ones.

Just read the posts?

The ability for some of the most threatening Pokemon in the game to fire off consecutive boosted attacks, especially without being confined to a choice lock, opens up a lot of unmanageable breaking possibilities. In addition, you also are immune to being phased out, Encored, and Disabled while bypassing Protect to do 1/4th damage like Z-moves. However, this is just the start as the secondary effects that occur through using a move of any type oftentimes lead to the the game largely being decided by this three-turn sequence, especially if the Dynamaxed Pokemon has the ability to use specific boosts to snowball into a sweep. The sweeping aspect of Dynamaxing is so problematic that Ditto has quickly risen to the near the top of the usage statistics, which is a sign of a problematic metagame state as outlined by this post by Darvin. This overwhelming prospect is also bolstered by the fact that Dynamaxed Pokemon have double the HP, allowing for many offensive Pokemon to avoid being taken out by otherwise troublesome threats as well as opening up the game to many defensive exploits of Dynamaxing.

Before, setting up to sweep or using a choice item represented commitment and opportunity cost. You're either trading immediate damage and risking them staying in and damaging/statusing you with the former, or trading the freedom to choose between your moves with the latter. There are clear downsides to each that you have to work around by planning and playing intelligently.

That's the big thing here - you have to be intelligent with how you do things. When planning to sweep you have to take into account what they have left and what the situation will be like a few turns down the road. When using choice items you have to predict what they're going to do and risk losing all momentum or even getting crippled or set up on if you choose incorrectly.

Dynamax removes all of this from the equation. You can happily set up and ignore all of this as you get massively rewarded for doing so. Your double HP means your check can't kill you, the increased power means you can now out muscle them, and the added boosts mean the effects last long after the three turns are up. If the risk/reward in the past was 50/50, dynamax now turns it into a 90/10.

Interesting if Arceus can create Dynamax energy and if it will be different from Eternatus?

Why should it? That's like saying it should get Rayquaza's weather abilities, or Necrozma's ability to fuse with Solgaleo and Lunala.

or if Dynamax and Gigantamax could change after Eternatus went to sleep?

You can already use them while Eternatus is asleep, and they function the same, so that's a no.

interesting maybe Eternatus was the reason both werent working in Galar and trapping it could maybe change that?

It's already been captured and nothing changed.

or trainers there didnt knew Megas or Z-moves so good there back then?

You keep looking for lore explanations that aren't going to be there. Megas and Z-Moves were removed because Game Freak didn't want them in the game. That's all there is to it.

 

[dig]

Dynamax just made the game into competitive coin flipping. First person to set up and dynamax would usually take out 3 Pokemon, and be in a very good position to finish the rest of the team.

Perfectly fine as a story thing, but jesus, it removes pretty much all strategy. It's pretty much the equivalent of performance enhancing drugs.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Dynamax just made the game into competitive coin flipping. First person to set up and dynamax would usually take out 3 Pokemon, and be in a very good position to finish the rest of the team.

Perfectly fine as a story thing, but jesus, it removes pretty much all strategy. It's pretty much the equivalent of performance enhancing drugs.

And if you manage to get a lead over your opponent and they decide to kick of Dynamax, in many cases you’re forced to Dynamax yourself to control the situation, which isn’t really ideal. You might end up losing any momentum you gained thanks to predictions and skill to the opponent’s Dynamax-fuelled roid rage.

Smogon also made a good point linking Dynamax to Ditto skyrocketing in usage. It provides so many boosts that having a Ditto to copy them becomes one of the few ways to deal with it.

 

[multiingbe]

Yes; Dynamax seems like it is only a balanced game mechanic when there is access to your stock of healing items including Revives!

 

[Matleo]

Yes; Dynamax seems like it is only a balanced game mechanic when there is access to your stock of healing items including Revives!

if a item would take the place of a pokemon to allow it to Dynamax or Gigantamax then what would be?

Interesting what would be if Minimize would come back? How should it react to Dynamax?

Minimize (move) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Do You think in future they could make more new moves and abilities or make aditions to old ones that react to Dynamax or against Dynamax pokemon? Like new weight moves based on gravity or on sand? or moves that steal opoents turns(make 3 turns pass like one, force re-charging a turn or make oponent get extra recoil) or bypasses them making effect of Dynamax last shorter?

Hmmm what moves grow in power when calculated with oponets HP? similar like Body Press with Defense stats?

Dynamax just made the game into competitive coin flipping. First person to set up and dynamax would usually take out 3 Pokemon, and be in a very good position to finish the rest of the team.

Perfectly fine as a story thing, but jesus, it removes pretty much all strategy. It's pretty much the equivalent of performance enhancing drugs.

There are many strategies to take out Dynamax lets be thankful that Dynamax doesn't hit pokemon in semi-invulnerable turns.
You can still induce status conditions, use substitutes and reduce damage with Protect and other strategies... changing type and so on.
Cursed Body still works thats good...
Perish Body was created for this reason.
Taking that trick room and type immunities are still a thing...
Accuracy and evasion are still a thing? speed too, shame that priority doesnt matter them...

When Megas ??? or Z-moves would be in the game or would work in future in it would it then even out the chances if you could use only one from the 3 mechanics on your whole team? How would then it be?

_____________________
Pokemon with very small amount of HP and low speed get the most out of Dynamax in risky situations.
Pokemon with weak typing.

Pokemon with large amount of hp and good defenses even more like Wobbufet, Blissey, Wailord, Alomonola.
Snorlax, Lapras, Melmetal where chosen because of large amount of hp rather then only beeing favorites.

______________________________________________________

I have a bigger question when it comes to priority and switching?
Does Dynamax cause a pokemon to move last in the turn it Dynamaxes? and is Dynamaxing a form of switching in and out? I didnt red or saw on videos that it would activate double stealth rocks, sticky web, spikes or something like that...

But does or could it trigger Stake Out , Fishious Rend or Bolt Beak effects when oponent dynamaxes on that turn? is it treated as a switch in if you need to call it back and send it out in its Dynamax form?

How would Pursuit react to it ? would it hit a pokemon before it even Dynamaxes?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Interesting what would be if Minimize would come back? How should it react to Dynamax?

Minimize (move) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Minimize never left.

Do You think in future they could make more new moves and abilities or make aditions to old ones that react to Dynamax or against Dynamax pokemon? Like new weight moves based on gravity or on sand? or moves that steal opoents turns(make 3 turns pass like one, force re-charging a turn or make oponent get extra recoil) or bypasses them making effect of Dynamax last shorter?

That assumes that they won't ditch it again.

Hmmm what moves grow in power when calculated with oponets HP? similar like Body Press with Defense stats?

None.

There are many strategies to take out Dynamax l

Such as?

lets be thankful that Dynamax doesn't hit pokemon in semi-invulnerable turns.

This one thing does not make Dynamax balanced.

You can still induce status conditions, use substitutes and reduce damage with Protect and other strategies... changing type and so on.

A substitute won't last very long, and you still have to cut your HP for that. Protect does not work against Max Moves. Changing type isn't an option available to all Pokemon, and it's not going to hold everything off. Status conditions are the only thing here that really helps, and even then, it's hardly the perfect counter. Paralysis is chance, Poison won't take out all their HP, and while a Burn could help with a physical attacker, a special attacker won't be put off at all. The remaining option is putting them to sleep or freezing them, which isn't easy.

Perish Body was created for this reason.

Oh, what a wonderful solution, take out the Dynamaxed Pokemon after it's gotten the three turns of Dynamax. (Plus, if Perish Body was created to be Dynamax's counter, that means Game Freak was expecting everyone to have a Cursola to counter Dynamax- that's not balanced at all)

Taking that trick room and type immunities are still a thing...

Why would Trick Room help? Nobody's complaining about Dynamax Pokemon being too fast, they're complaining that they're too bulky and hit too hard. And type immunities will only get you so far- nobody ever just uses one type of move on a Pokemon.

Snorlax, Lapras, Melmetal where chosen because of large amount of hp rather then only beeing favorites.

They all already had access to Dynamax, and GMax doesn't increase their HP more than Dynamax would.

Does Dynamax cause a pokemon to move last in the turn it Dynamaxes?

No.

and is Dynamaxing a form of switching in and out? I didnt red or saw on videos that it would activate double stealth rocks, sticky web, spikes or something like that...

But does or could it trigger Stake Out , Fishious Rend or Bolt Beak effects when oponent dynamaxes on that turn? is it treated as a switch in if you need to call it back and send it out in its Dynamax form?

It's not. Bolt Beak and Fishious Rend's boosts don't come from switching out, they come from moving before the opponent.

 

[Cresselia92]

You know, there is a bit of irony regarding Dynamax: Game Freak had originally planned to have it last two turns rather than three. I wonder what would have happened then: would the mechanism have been more balanced, or two turns would have still been enough to destroy everything on sight?

It would have been interesting if the mechanic worked differently from Singles to Doubles, with it lasting two turns in Singles and three turns in Doubles, as in the latter case it's more balanced and a longer time limit would have been fine.

 

[Phosphene]

I wonder what would have happened then: would the mechanism have been more balanced, or two turns would have still been enough to destroy everything on sight?

I think the mechanic would still be troublesome, though maybe not as much, since you can still deal high amounts of damage and obtain the added benefits, however I have zero experience with competitive Dynamax so I could be totally wrong. Maybe removing the secondary effects would be more effective at balancing the gimmick?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

IMO Dynamax would be more balanced if the moves didn't deal quite as much damage, so that the strategic elements (walling, setting up boosts or lowering stats) became the focus.