SwSh Dynamax: Thoughts, Feelings, or Concerns

[Zachie]

As much as I love Dynamaxing/Gigantamaxing I definitely would rather them just have worked it somehow into a natural progression of Mega Evolutions.

 

[RK9]

I believe the canon and GameFreak themselves are kinda uh. Ambiguous on whether Dyna and Gigantamax are holograms or actual sizes. I know they said very early on they are projections, but afterwards that got backpeddled by saying it's not just a hologram, iirc.

Which makes sense in a way. If it was a hologram, no way that it would just stand fully still like that. The base Pokémon would still move and if it's a fast Pokémon, you would need to see the entire hologram dart all over the field. Now it just stands there completely still which makes me more inclined to believe it genuinely grows to that size temporarily.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Honestly, it would be kind of pointless for the Darkest Day to be a plot point in the first place if Dynamax and Gigantamax were just holograms. The point of the fear that people had would be is that being a real fear and not because a projection made them scared. It would also make the battle against Eternatus completely pointless as well.

 

[Emmy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Ash and Gou literally standing on Gigantamax Snorlax at one point during that episode in Journeys? That would at least imply that they aren't just simply holograms and have some form of mass or physical presence.

 

[RK9]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Ash and Gou literally standing on Gigantamax Snorlax at one point during that episode in Journeys? That would at least imply that they aren't just simply holograms and have some form of mass or physical presence.

Anime always says "Fuck you" to stuff established in games. I wouldn't take it as a standard.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I don’t like to believe that Dynamax leads to an actual size increase. Idk I liked gigantism but I don’t like to believe it here.

That makes me dislike the mechanic. Also the Hologram explanation cannot explain a lot of thin So my bad-in-physics brain likes to believe that it’s a fictional love child of the mass energy equivalence law (E=mc^2) and quantum mechanics. The Pokémon releases an astronomical amount of energy that keeps changing phases between mass and pure energy (Which the game lore would faultily translate as a hologram) : that’s what results in the weird red electric-like auras in Dynamax, and that’s how Dynamax Pokémon can actually interact super sized with the environment.

Whether it’s mass or energy cannot be truly determined like the Schrödinger’s cat: it’s both mass and energy till you decide to observe it.

 

[Esserise]

Well, here's the in-game dialogue about it:

Trainer Tips: The Dynamax phenomenon is caused by a special power that originates from within Pokémon, warping the space around them and making them appear far larger than they truly are. Some Pokémon also change appearance upon Dynamaxing. This particular kind of Dynamaxing is also known as Gigantamaxing.

On the Gigantification of Pokémon: While the general principle holds that Pokémon grow stronger and larger by evolving, it is also true that simply making oneself appear larger is another survival strategy with merit.

Mum: Professor Magnolia mentioned something unbelievable the other day. She said that Dynamaxing doesn't actually make the Pokémon itself grow bigger! But they're still able to physically interact with others, right? They must really hold an amazing amount of power!

The games are not very ambiguous about this. It is not a true size increase... but I also don't think "hologram" conveys the right idea, as it sounds too artificial or "fake." The reason why Dynamax works the way that it does is because it is an extension of Eternatus's space-warping abilities. Eternatus doesn't actually have the power to make things grow to massive sizes, but it does have the ability to redefine spatial dimensions, or in other words, the amount of physical space that an object occupies. So a single particle that might normally take up only an infinitesimally small amount of traditional 3D space can be altered to where it occupies 20 feet. The distance from the energy tower summit to Postwick or Ballonlea, normally many, many miles, can be shortened to mere inches, as we see in the background scenery during the Climax Raid Battle. This is not quite the same thing as just projecting a false image, and it explains why Dynamax Pokémon can still interact with the environment around them. The Pokémon haven't literally grown larger... but their spatial dimensions have been physically exaggerated to where the effects of their existence and actions occur on a larger scale. Think of it more like using a megaphone to amplify your voice. You're still using your own voice, but scientific principles are at work to make the sound of your voice carry over a longer distance than would normally be possible.

 

[Bulbazaur]

I don’t like dynamax, it slows the game further with the same animations

 

[BlueWaves]

I don’t like dynamax, it slows the game further with the same animations

On the topic of same animations, it really bothers me the G-Max Moves reuse the same animations. While Z-Moves have the issues of being unskippable, they all featured a unique cutscene with pretty cool poses/dances/movements with The Pokemon unique Z-Move. Remember when the trainer gives an evil smirk before Mimikyu attacks the trapped Pokemon. Or how Primarina sings before a giant Water Bubble crashes on the opponent? All Z-Moves had unique animations, while for G-Max Moves, only the Kanto/Galar Starters have the unique animations, as well as Snorlax and Garbodor, though latter two, its just an aesthetic change, the animation is the same. All the other moves reuse the base Dynamax Move. It really provides more to the idea that these games were rushed.

 

[Esserise]

they all featured a unique cutscene with pretty cool poses/dances/movements with The Pokemon unique Z-Move.

That’s not true. The actual attack sequences were unique, but only two exclusive Z-Moves have custom dances - Catastropika and 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt. All of the others use the standard dances for that type. (Light That Burns the Sky had the small touch of the player keeling over from being so drained, but otherwise used the regular Psychic-type pose.)

All Z-Moves had unique animations, while for G-Max Moves, only the Kanto/Galar Starters have the unique animations

Urshifu’s G-Max Move animations are unique as well.

as well as Snorlax and Garbodor, though latter two, its just an aesthetic change, the animation is the same. All the other moves reuse the base Dynamax Move.

A lot of G-Max moves change the aesthetics, not just those two. Alcremie’s uses cream instead of the stars from Max Starfall, while Hatterene replaces them with lightning bolts. Flappletun’s changes Max Overgrowth’s giant mushrooms into apples. Meowth’s G-Max Gold Rush is like Snorlax’s, but instead of berries, gold coins go flying out of the Max Strike pillar, and I think Eevee’s uses hearts. Toxtricity and Pikachu each change the lightning effects of Max Lightning into something more suitable for each of them.

It really provides more to the idea that these games were rushed.

I mean, you are comparing them to Sun & Moon, which I wouldn’t exactly point to as examples of games that didn’t cut any corners to make a deadline. I think it’s more a question of where they decide to put their efforts, especially within the context of what each mechanic is trying to do. Z-Moves are one-time nukes, so they luxuriate in these ostentatiously long and unique cutscenes that really make the most of this one-shot super attack. But with G-Max Moves, they’re just a part of a larger mechanic (Dynamax/Gigantamax), which lasts for multiple turns (and so needs to be more succinct), and where the player’s eye is already caught by the giant Pokémon. It makes sense that there would be less of an imperative to give each G-Max Move an elaborate and bespoke animation, especially if changing the particle effects can convey the idea just fine.

 

[BlueWaves]

Urshifu’s G-Max Move animations are unique as well.

Oh right I forgot. Thanks for the correction.

A lot of G-Max moves change the aesthetics, not just those two. Alcremie’s uses cream instead of the stars from Max Starfall, while Hatterene replaces them with lightning bolts. Flappletun’s changes Max Overgrowth’s giant mushrooms into apples. Meowth’s G-Max Gold Rush is like Snorlax’s, but instead of berries, gold coins go flying out of the Max Strike pillar, and I think Eevee’s uses hearts. Toxtricity and Pikachu each change the lightning effects of Max Lightning into something more suitable for each of them.

Those are very minor aesthetics though. Most people would not recognize that immediately, and the attack itself is mostly the same. The particles adjustment is just a minor change overall. G-Max Smite still looks the same as the Max Starfall overall, so most people would not notice. In contrast, people would undeniably notice that Malicious Moonsault is completely different from Black Hole Eclipse immediately.

I mean, you are comparing them to Sun & Moon, which I wouldn’t exactly point to as examples of games that didn’t cut any corners to make a deadline. I think it’s more a question of where they decide to put their efforts, especially within the context of what each mechanic is trying to do. Z-Moves are one-time nukes, so they luxuriate in these ostentatiously long and unique cutscenes that really make the most of this one-shot super attack. But with G-Max Moves, they’re just a part of a larger mechanic (Dynamax/Gigantamax), which lasts for multiple turns (and so needs to be more succinct), and where the player’s eye is already caught by the giant Pokémon. It makes sense that there would be less of an imperative to give each G-Max Move an elaborate and bespoke animation, especially if changing the particle effects can convey the idea just fine.

Valid point. though I don't think its entirely valid though. If the priority was to make the battles as quick as possible, the there would have been more QOL changes to several abilities. For example, if you look at multi-hit moves, each one plays the same attack animation in a row depending on which roll you get. If you get a highest roll for a move like Icicle Spear, you would watch the attack 5 times, which would take longer than a Max Move. And if you coming it with an Ability like Weak Armor, the play out is so long. I remember I did a Weak Armor Cursola with Weakness Policy alongside Beat Up Cursola and the execution of that strategy was so long that I was looking at my phone rather than the battle as the strategy executed. If GF's case was to make battles as quick as possible why are moves like Icicle Spear and Rock Blast have really long animations?

 

[Bulbazaur]

On the topic of same animations, it really bothers me the G-Max Moves reuse the same animations. While Z-Moves have the issues of being unskippable, they all featured a unique cutscene with pretty cool poses/dances/movements with The Pokemon unique Z-Move. Remember when the trainer gives an evil smirk before Mimikyu attacks the trapped Pokemon. Or how Primarina sings before a giant Water Bubble crashes on the opponent? All Z-Moves had unique animations, while for G-Max Moves, only the Kanto/Galar Starters have the unique animations, as well as Snorlax and Garbodor, though latter two, its just an aesthetic change, the animation is the same. All the other moves reuse the base Dynamax Move. It really provides more to the idea that these games were rushed.

Agreed, their was much more variety. Also, the Z-moves felt like they were faster. I could be wrong, but they felt that way. I think for Dynamax they should have included the option to skip those cutscenes so those who wanted to see could and those who don't, don't have to. This is especially true for those Dynamax start sequences, imo

 

[Esserise]

Those are very minor aesthetics though. Most people would not recognize that immediately, and the attack itself is mostly the same. The particles adjustment is just a minor change overall. G-Max Smite still looks the same as the Max Starfall overall, so most people would not notice. In contrast, people would undeniably notice that Malicious Moonsault is completely different from Black Hole Eclipse immediately.

I’m not trying to say that they’re revolutionarily different, just that, since you mentioned Snorlax and Garbodor’s moves as the only other examples that do something different, that claim is not accurate. Many G-Max Moves make the same sort of adjustments that you gave partial credit to Replenish and Malodor for making.

Valid point. though I don't think its entirely valid though. If the priority was to make the battles as quick as possible, the there would have been more QOL changes to several abilities. For example, if you look at multi-hit moves, each one plays the same attack animation in a row depending on which roll you get. If you get a highest roll for a move like Icicle Spear, you would watch the attack 5 times, which would take longer than a Max Move. And if you coming it with an Ability like Weak Armor, the play out is so long. I remember I did a Weak Armor Cursola with Weakness Policy alongside Beat Up Cursola and the execution of that strategy was so long that I was looking at my phone rather than the battle as the strategy executed. If GF's case was to make battles as quick as possible why are moves like Icicle Spear and Rock Blast have really long animations?

I do agree with this, but I think this goes beyond G-Max Moves. Max Raid Battles against Cotton Down Eldegoss are awful, but it’s hardly the fault of Max Overgrowth or whatever. Same for even just basic weather effects like Sandstorm damage - why does it have to hit each Pokémon separately, displaying a separate flinching animation and text alert?

is suggesting a more systemic change in terms of how the game consolidates the distribution of damage or effects across multiple Pokémon, which I imagine might be a bit more complicated than deciding outright to have G-Max Moves not have animations that run for half a minute like Malicious Moonsault and Light That Burns the Sky.

Also (and this may seem like an accusation of hypocrisy, so I want to make clear that it is not, I'm just talking about how these observations contrast with another frequent critique by the fandom), I think it is interesting that you criticise multi-hit moves along these lines. Because I do agree with you, that the way in which they interact with Abilities like Cotton Down or Weak Armor is a problem. But multi-hit moves are at the same time criticised by a lot of fans as being too simplistic. But that is precisely the reason why their animations are so simple, so as to not drag the battle on any longer than they have to.

Agreed, their was much more variety. Also, the Z-moves felt like they were faster. I could be wrong, but they felt that way. I think for Dynamax they should have included the option to skip those cutscenes so those who wanted to see could and those who don't, don't have to. This is especially true for those Dynamax start sequences, imo

I sincerely don’t know how you’ve gotten this impression. Light That Burns the Sky takes almost 45 seconds. Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom takes like 35. Malicious Moonsault takes 25. G-Max One Blow takes 8.

Yes, when you factor in the actual Dynamaxing animation, it feels like longer, but that sequence is only going to occur twice at most throughout the entire battle. (Not that I don’t think they shouldn’t include an option to skip it - I just don’t see it could be the Max Moves causing it to feel slow. Z-Moves literally made the 3DS start to chug, with the moment where your Pokémon “surrounds itself in Z-Power” actually pausing the action altogether with your character just standing there in a stiff pose for a couple of seconds in order to load the cutscene.)

 

[SinnohEevee]

I would rather GF improves the actual gimmicks instead of introducing a new one in Gen IX. Three gimmicks are more than enough.

 

[Poke Dragon]

I would rather they remove the gimmicks altogether since we did fine without them in the first place.

 

[WyndonCalling]

I'm not inherently gimmick-hostile as long as GF gets a better grip on what to retain and what to drop between generations. Z-moves were fun tools for an in-game playthrough (and served as both token of progression and power-up, which is better game design than the badge system) and quite daft and silly for a light-hearted region such as Alola. They were also quite ephemeral and a blight on competitive play (you can't reasonably counter an invisible super-move that smashes through usual type-advantage checks), so I'm happy to just leave them behind as Alola's in-game 'thing'.

Megas are great. They're a fantastic vehicle for new designs, new abilities, and - most importantly - great buckets of love for neglected species. Despite their competitive ubiquity, they're well-balanced by how predictable their gameplan is and by the fact that their stat boosts are often trumped by the benefits of a Choice item; they often trade immediate power for versatility. I'm a massive proponent of the notion that they should have been worked into Dynamax in some way and I dearly hope this isn't the last we've seen of them in main series titles.

As for Dynamax itself? It's firmly in camp A. I think it's aesthetically great, ties in very well to Galar's themes and brings some literal heft to the stadium battles, but I also don't want it to stick around after the fact. It's another ephemeral thing with a tiny pool of new designs and little in the way of significant changes for the species which can actually make use of GMax, so I can't foresee many broken hearts if it went the way of all things. Competitively, it's even more degenerate than Z-moves (do you have a Flying move? Do you also have a Fighting move? gg) and I can't wait for it to depart those environments.

 

[Matthew Clerkin]

As for Dynamax itself? It's firmly in camp A. I think it's aesthetically great, ties in very well to Galar's themes and brings some literal heft to the stadium battles, but I also don't want it to stick around after the fact. It's another ephemeral thing with a tiny pool of new designs and little in the way of significant changes for the species which can actually make use of GMax, so I can't foresee many broken hearts if it went the way of all things. Competitively, it's even more degenerate than Z-moves (do you have a Flying move? Do you also have a Fighting move? gg) and I can't wait for it to depart those environments.

I'm geninuely curious about what parts of dynamaxing people find "asethetically great", because dynamax's current aesthetics are one of the biggest things that I despise about the mechanic. The garish pinkish red aura is visually discomforting (especially in the raid areas) to look at and I can't unsee the three clouds above their heads as anything else but floating turds (or darumaka heat pad fuel for the cultured folks).

Am I alone or in the minority with this opinion, or is this a more common opinion that people don't like talking about?

 

[RK9]

Okay but hear me out.

Gigantamax'ed Megas.

 

[WyndonCalling]

I'm geninuely curious about what parts of dynamaxing people find "asethetically great", because dynamax's current aesthetics are one of the biggest things that I despise about the mechanic. The garish pinkish red aura is visually discomforting (especially in the raid areas) to look at and I can't unsee the three clouds above their heads as anything else but floating turds (or darumaka heat pad fuel for the cultured folks).

Am I alone or in the minority with this opinion, or is this a more common opinion that people don't like talking about?

I'm actually not keen on the hue myself, but I understand aesthetics as being more than purely visual - it's the scale, the sound, the vibrations, the explosions, the roar of the crowd, the gym leader animations. It's a broader... feel.

I'm also quite cool on raid battles. The stadium matches provide a good context for DMax, the raid battles feel very contrived.

 

[RK9]

I don't mind the aesthetics to be fair. I like that it has this ominous aura cause I mean, let's be real here. You're being stared down by what? 20+ meters creatures that do stuff like spit fire.

It's just a shame that it comes with very little design creativity and fluidness. It's all just standing there completely still.