SwSh Dynamax: Thoughts, Feelings, or Concerns

[Myth]

Post-Dexit, no one's asking them to remember all of them. Doing so is now a pursuit solely for the sake of itself - the only reason to have to remember all of them when you're not going to be seeing them in-game is to be a trivia buff.

Besides that, new generations roll around every three years or so. Hypothetically, one new Charizard form per gen would give us a whopping total of 6 by 2028. That's a decade from now. There will be hundreds of new fans by then who have no clue what a Mega or Giga Charizard is who will get along just fine. You know how many more overall Pokémon we'll have by then when we're already about to hit 900? And it's the 6 Charizard that will be the problem? I mean, we're already getting 40+ Alcremie in the same game that we're getting this 1 Charizard. Pikachu now has 13 variants over the last 5 years, and a generational burst is responsible for all of 1 of them.

The burst modes are not causing the bloat.

Although I do agree I would not find it hard to memorize 6 Charizards, I still think it would be messy. Especially because Charizard isn't the only one which could be getting multiple gimmicks and forms throught generations if the trend continues. But honestly, better agree to disagree. We had talked about something similar before. Doesn't look like we will reach a consensus here.

Getting rid of the generational burst modes is not going to make new generation games any less of a fresh start, because feeling like a fresh start is a very deliberate goal.

I do disagree, but I didn't even say that getting rid of bursts mechanics would make new generations feeling less like a "fresh start". You seemed to argue for getting rid of old burst mechanics and always introducing new ones of them because "every generation is a start from scratch"? And I just said that that's exactly one of the points being criticized here, how the series has been dealing with its continuity. That deliberate goal was being criticized (but indirectly, since the only one complaint here is about how they're dealing with previous mechanics).

Go on...

Do you would like to know my ideas? In any way, I meant, the only change they made was that about the time their speeds would change when Mega Evolved, and some nerfs. Nothing would stop them from making deeper changes later if they wanted to.

Do we even know if Gigantamax Pokémon have better stats than their regular Dynamax counterparts? If not, then the difference is just in the effect of the Max Move, and there could still be situations in which the Max Move would be more useful than the G-Max Move. Similarly, if that's all it is, then a Dynamax Pokémon could take on a Gigantamax Pokémon without being at a significant disadvantage like a Pokémon that has no access to Mega Evolution going up against many of the ones that did.

Do we even know if they don't though? But okay, let's consider they don't. They are still giving them to a small portion of Pokémon, and it's clear to me that some Pokémon that wouldn't even need a new form will gain one. But the point is that this gimmick limits the Pokémon movements. So, what will set them apart? They will be: its stats first and foresmost, its types, its abilities and its Max or G-Max moves. We already know most of the Max moves, and most of them (with the exception of a few, like Fighting and Water coming to mind) seems to have inferior side effects if compared to those of G-Max moves (remembering that G-Max moves also causes damage). Also, Gigantamax Pokémon will also be able to use some Max Movements, so even the most interesting ones can still be used by many Gigantamax Pokémon.

Of course, you will have many specific occasions when that will not happen, I'm trying to address it generally.

As I've said in this thread before, I too think they're are much more balanced than older burst mechanics (compared to how they were). But it seems clear to me that the main goal behind them wasn't to create a more balanced mechanics, but a way to try to promote the new games, etc. They are just taking the opportunity to create more balanced mechanics this time, but that is clearly not the goal that led to their creation. Otherwise, when dealing with these mechanics, they would avoid mistakes they already made with past mechanics.

Which is where division of labor comes in. The people like Iwao and Morimoto who do the battle planning are not generally the same people who do character and creature design. There might be some overlap, but it's not like there's only ten people who have to manage everything at once. We already know that their staff just doubled in size for these games, too.

If the division of labor argument is so important to you, why did you raise the argument that they are cutting dex to introduce new features?

Anyway, as you said yourself, many employees have multi-tasking. Not only that, but when it comes to creating new burst mechanics, it's not just the competitive department that need to deal with related tasks, but also the design, modeling, and even the story one. Unlike models, which have a department solely to create them within Creatures, Game Freak should not have an "exclusive burst mechanics department", it's just a cooperation between several of them.

But just to remember my point: yes, I believe the amount of Pokémon can prevent them from developing new features, as well. I happen to believe that the time and energy required to create everything related to a new burst mechanics is far greater than that spent just introducing old Pokémon into the game, at least for Game Freak. And even if it wasn't, I think having all the Pokémon in the game is much more important for Pokémon games than any new feature they could implement. In short, I don't think new burst mechanics are as important as.

That's not really the point. There's a whole team of artists that are responsible for designing Pokémon, and from what we've been told, getting designs into the final product is a pretty rigorous process - but not for lack of ideas or productivity. James Turner recently gave us an estimate that only 2 or 3 out of every 10 designs makes it into the finished game, because getting a design approved requires the artist to justify their work in a way that makes sense for the setting and the overall game. Seems pretty wild to me to assume that the reason you're not getting the Galarian Qwilfish and Klink and Stantler and Croagunk you want is as simple as "But Gigantamax is also a thing that they make designs for!"

I disagree. I knew what James said, but there are many points to be adressed here: If the designs were not meeting the requirements, I would not say that it would not be lacking ideas or productivity. I also wouldn't say that it would be lacking either. We just don't know. Second, as you have seen (or read) in James's message: 1) Artists are often required to make monsters. If they are busy making the monsters they have been asked for, for some reason, then that would be preventing them from making other monsters, for any other reason. 2) If I remember correctly, James also says that a monster often meets the requirements but doesn't get into that specific game because "that slot" can be already occupied by other.

edit: (mechanics*).

 

[Matthew Clerkin]

I don’t want to be pandered to; I’m not a child. I don’t want Turtonator to be exclusively favored to the point where it becomes grating. Yes, I would really like to see it in the spotlight for once but that doesn’t necessarily mean I want it to benefit from (almost) every new gimmick as well as put in everything.

Agreed. I want Sceptile to get better but I don't want to have him be forced into every single region and mechanic

 

[Knightwolf09]

I don’t want to be pandered to; I’m not a child. I don’t want Turtonator to be exclusively favored to the point where it becomes grating. Yes, I would really like to see it in the spotlight for once but that doesn’t necessarily mean I want it to benefit from (almost) every new gimmick as well as put in everything.

Since when is something you like getting love and respect considered childish? Anyway why bother getting upset at someone else's favorite getting attention when you don't want yours to get much?

 

[Rainami]

you know, I'd be a lot more okay with gigantamax if it was just gigantamax and no dynamax. Dynamax is just jigglypuff using puff up in smash bros; it's cute with certain pokemon, but certainly not very threatening looking or interesting. Unless you're jigglypuff. Gigantamax actually changes the pokemon's design and gives its moves special abilities. Gigantamaxed pokemon actually can look like somefin out of godzilla or monster hunter. And not be boring.

my other main problem with gigantamax is that it replaced mega evolution. And z-moves, I guess, but mostly mega evolution. Why couldn't they just coexist? Why not have a restriction where if a pokemon mega evolves in the battle, you can't use gigantamax. Or vice versa. It could make sense from a story perspective too, they could say that mega evolution and gigantamax are related to each other in some way. It would even be an opportunity to flesh out more backstory on mega evolution, because we all know the lore relating to that is lacking.

another problem I have with gigantamax is that so far, most of the designs look boring and uninspired. Let me show you what I mean.

Gigantamax Drednaw: it's certainly imposing, I'll give it that. But I don't like it, I think it's ugly. And that's coming from someone who thinks regular drednaw is okay.
Gigantamax Corviknight: it's just regular corviknight but a lot bigger and with glowy bits. And with flying needles following it. It's boring. Plus, I don't like the additions to its armor.
Gigantamax Alcremie: I actually love this one. It's funny, cleverly combines aspects of all of alcremie's variants into one design, actually plays on the giant theme, and, like regular alcremie, it's adorable (although regular alcremie is even cuter).
Gigantamax Pikachu: it looks stupid, but that's just because it's pikachu. I certainly can't blame them for doing this, to appeal to the nostalgic people that like fat pikachu. It doesn't bother me.
Gigantamax Eevee: this one bothers me. Basically all they did is make its fur get really fluffy. So uncreative and dull. I will give it credit for being slightly cuter than regular eevee, though.
Gigantamax Charizard: I hate charizard, but this thing is actually acceptable. I don't like its design, per se, but it reminds me of like an elder dragon from monster hunter. That's a good thing. I don't think charizard should be getting another form in the first place, though.
Gigantamax Meowth: I find this thing amusing, yet....it's still kind of boring. Alolan Exeggutor did the same thing but was also different and interesting in other ways besides height.
Gigantamax Butterfree: I disliked this one at first, but it started growing on me. I don't like how its main body stays the same, but its wings are pretty, and I like its luminescent scales which have noxious properties.

basically, I think adding two new types of forms for old pokemon in the same game is a bit much, and if I had to choose just one, I'd definitely pick galarian forms....but....I'd be able to tolerate gigantamax if the designs were overall more interesting and inspired, and if mega evolution could stay along with it. And also if dynamax didn't exist, of course.

 

[Phosphene]

Since when is something you like getting love and respect considered childish?

Since when is pandering "getting love and respect?" It's not, in my opinion.

As for why pandering is childish... it's hard to put into words, but I've always felt that pandering is just appealing to the lowest common denominator for the sake of getting attention. "Look! Your super awesome favorite has a super special form in Sword and Shield!!!1!! Don'y you love it? Don't you want to buy these games??" It's childish in the same sense that poop and fart jokes are. Or, for a more accurate comparison, it's childish in the same sense that sexy, scantily clad women in movies/video games are. It's easy and simple and basic and pretty much done for either no reason or money.

Anyway why bother getting upset at someone else's favorite getting attention when you don't want yours to get much?

Disappointed, not upset. As for why bothering being disappointed with the constant Charizard pandering, well, I feel that it's become excessive and has robbed other Pokemon from their chance in the limelight. There's 800+ Pokemon, but Charizard receives quite a lot of attention. I mean, it's one of the only two Pokemon with two Mega Evolutions. Doesn't that seem unfair? What about the many other Pokemon desperately in need of something like a Mega Evolution? What makes Charizard so much better than almost every other fully-evolved Pokemon that it warrants being granted special privileges like that? Nothing. There's nothing about Charizard that makes it intrinsically better than every other Pokemon except for Mewtwo. The only reason it gets these privileges like two Megas is so that TPCi can sell more merchandise.

 

[Esserise]

I do disagree, but I didn't even say that getting rid of bursts mechanics would make new generations feeling less like a "fresh start".

You didn't really say anything. The person that I was responding to (who was speaking in for yet another person, Cute Charm, who was actually the person I was responding to in the first place) said "focusing on one gimmick instead of adding new gimmicks each generation, it does feel like we are not over bloating the series with different gimmicks or starting from scratch every time a new gen rolls around." That designates the continual new mechanics as the reason why it feels like we're "starting from scratch every time." To which my contention was that it would feel like that anyway because everything gets soft-rebooted with a new gen, regardless of burst modes. Then you came along and told me "that's what's being criticized" and are now saying that what Matthew Clerkin said Cute Charm said was actually a part of some larger criticism about the nature of generations as a whole feeling like they're starting from scratch, but that's really not how I read Matthew Clerkin's post.

You seemed to argue for getting rid of old burst mechanics and always introducing new ones of them because "every generation is a start from scratch"?

That's not what I said. I said that every new generation was a start from scratch. The implication being that it would be this way with or without things like Mega Evolution and Gigantamax. I'm not arguing for them so much as I am questioning the blame being laid at their feet.

Do you would like to know my ideas?

I am curious, yes. How would you address the fact that only a certain number of Pokémon have access to Mega Evolution, when creating Mega designs for every fully-evolved Pokémon is prohibitively impractical? And how would you adjust the mechanic to better balance the "use it or lose it" aspect of needing to activate it right away in order to fully take advantage of it? How would you do this without adding an alternative mechanic, and without changing Mega Evolution so much that it feels like something else?

And what sort of additional gameplay ideas could you derive from it? Dynamax offers a gameplay feature that Mega Evolution would not translate over to quite as well, in the form of Max Raid Battles.

As I've said in this thread before, I too think they're are much more balanced than older burst mechanics (compared to how they were). But it seems clear to me that the main goal behind them wasn't to create a more balanced mechanics, but a way to try to promote the new games, etc. They are just taking the opportunity to create more balanced mechanics this time, but that is clearly not the goal that led to their creation. Otherwise, when dealing with these mechanics, they would avoid mistakes they already made with past mechanics.

I think it goes without saying that they don't do anything for truly noble reasons. Obviously the ultimate goal is always to make money and move units off of shelves. But if they can learn from past efforts and make sharper decisions about the game design within that paradigm, well, that just seems like the process is working healthily to me.

If the division of labor argument is so important to you, why did you raise the argument that they are cutting dex to introduce new features?

Anyway, as you said yourself, many employees have multi-tasking. Not only that, but when it comes to creating new burst mechanics, it's not just the competitive department that need to deal with related tasks, but also the design, modeling, and even the story one. Unlike models, which have a department solely to create them within Creatures, Game Freak should not have an "exclusive burst mechanics department", it's just a cooperation between several of them.

The previous point I made about the Dex cutting was intended for Matthew Clerkin, who proposed that by not focusing on these battle mechanics, Game Freak could dedicate more time toward developing new Pokémon as well as new modes of side-content. What I was getting at there was that what Game Freak have said is that the swelling number of Pokémon actually tends to get in the way of new features, so wanting them to stop focusing on one kind of feature in order to focus on making new Pokémon and new features is essentially wanting them to remain stuck in what they've found to be an impasse. It's one thing to want a different kind of feature than Mega Evolution or Dynamax if it's going to mean fewer Pokémon in the game, but you're still going to get the tug-of-war between adding Pokémon and adding features.

As far as my division of labor point for you goes, what I'm saying is that although there is a cooperative element, the bulk of the planning work for something like Dynamax probably isn't going to be handled by the art department - they do have their part to play, when it comes to creating designs for the niche group of special Gigantamax forms, but that's a small task in comparison to their own higher priority of designing the new Pokémon for the region. It's taking up some of their time, sure, but I'd be surprised if it required an obstructively large chunk of it.

1) Artists are often required to make monsters. If they are busy making the monsters they have been asked for, for some reason, then that would be preventing them from making other monsters, for any other reason.

That just shifts the responsibility over to whoever's setting the quotas. At the end of the day, somebody with authority probably has a general idea of about how many Pokémon, regional forms, and/or Gigantamax forms are wanted, and instructs the team to produce appropriate designs for those roles. If a design meets that somebody's criteria, then it moves forward. If not, maybe it goes back to the drawing board until it satisfies, or it doesn't, and is then consigned to the bottom drawer. I'd be surprised though if it were the somebody with authority who had to adjust their goals to account for a lack of acceptable designs more often than the artists having to revise their work until the goals are met.

2) If I remember correctly, James also says that a monster often meets the requirements but doesn't get into that specific game because "that slot" can be already occupied by other.

Yeah, but that's really vague. In general, I don't quite see how poor Galarian Corsola is likely to get ruled out for stepping on Gigantamax Drednaw's toes - the two would surely be meant to fill different "slots" from the outset, given that they're designed around two very different mechanics.

 

[Phosphene]

I wonder if Gigantamax Meowth will be good for farming money. Give it an Amulet Coin and then spam G-Max Gold Rush. And considering five out of the nine Pokemon capable of using Happy Hour are in the game, you'll be able to have at least one Happy Hour Pokemon.

 

[venusboi79]

My issue with Charizard getting so much attention is that he’s part of a trio; while it may be the most popular, the other two have very solid fanbases. Even when it comes to merch or the anime, the Kanto starters usually gets equal treatment.

Yet in the recent main games, Charizard is the one who gets the attention. Its not like a vocal minority complaining that they can’t find a ton of merch featuring Remoraid or something; its one member of an iconic trio. Even the Eeveelutions get treated as part of a set (not including base Eevee itself) and they’re the only other big “choice” based set that carries over multiple generations.

 

[Matthew Clerkin]

You didn't really say anything. The person that I was responding to (who was speaking in for yet another person, Cute Charm, who was actually the person I was responding to in the first place) said "focusing on one gimmick instead of adding new gimmicks each generation, it does feel like we are not over bloating the series with different gimmicks or starting from scratch every time a new gen rolls around." That designates the continual new mechanics as the reason why it feels like we're "starting from scratch every time." To which my contention was that it would feel like that anyway because everything gets soft-rebooted with a new gen, regardless of burst modes. Then you came along and told me "that's what's being criticized" and are now saying that what Matthew Clerkin said Cute Charm said was actually a part of some larger criticism about the nature of generations as a whole feeling like they're starting from scratch, but that's really not how I read Matthew Clerkin's post.



That's not what I said. I said that every new generation was a start from scratch. The implication being that it would be this way with or without things like Mega Evolution and Gigantamax. I'm not arguing for them so much as I am questioning the blame being laid at their feet.



I am curious, yes. How would you address the fact that only a certain number of Pokémon have access to Mega Evolution, when creating Mega designs for every fully-evolved Pokémon is prohibitively impractical? And how would you adjust the mechanic to better balance the "use it or lose it" aspect of needing to activate it right away in order to fully take advantage of it? How would you do this without adding an alternative mechanic, and without changing Mega Evolution so much that it feels like something else?

And what sort of additional gameplay ideas could you derive from it? Dynamax offers a gameplay feature that Mega Evolution would not translate over to quite as well, in the form of Max Raid Battles.



I think it goes without saying that they don't do anything for truly noble reasons. Obviously the ultimate goal is always to make money and move units off of shelves. But if they can learn from past efforts and make sharper decisions about the game design within that paradigm, well, that just seems like the process is working healthily to me.



The previous point I made about the Dex cutting was intended for Matthew Clerkin, who proposed that by not focusing on these battle mechanics, Game Freak could dedicate more time toward developing new Pokémon as well as new modes of side-content. What I was getting at there was that what Game Freak have said is that the swelling number of Pokémon actually tends to get in the way of new features, so wanting them to stop focusing on one kind of feature in order to focus on making new Pokémon and new features is essentially wanting them to remain stuck in what they've found to be an impasse. It's one thing to want a different kind of feature than Mega Evolution or Dynamax if it's going to mean fewer Pokémon in the game, but you're still going to get the tug-of-war between adding Pokémon and adding features.

As far as my division of labor point for you goes, what I'm saying is that although there is a cooperative element, the bulk of the planning work for something like Dynamax probably isn't going to be handled by the art department - they do have their part to play, when it comes to creating designs for the niche group of special Gigantamax forms, but that's a small task in comparison to their own higher priority of designing the new Pokémon for the region. It's taking up some of their time, sure, but I'd be surprised if it required an obstructively large chunk of it.



That just shifts the responsibility over to whoever's setting the quotas. At the end of the day, somebody with authority probably has a general idea of about how many Pokémon, regional forms, and/or Gigantamax forms are wanted, and instructs the team to produce appropriate designs for those roles. If a design meets that somebody's criteria, then it moves forward. If not, maybe it goes back to the drawing board until it satisfies, or it doesn't, and is then consigned to the bottom drawer. I'd be surprised though if it were the somebody with authority who had to adjust their goals to account for a lack of acceptable designs more often than the artists having to revise their work until the goals are met.



Yeah, but that's really vague. In general, I don't quite see how poor Galarian Corsola is likely to get ruled out for stepping on Gigantamax Drednaw's toes - the two would surely be meant to fill different "slots" from the outset, given that they're designed around two very different mechanics.

There is a huge difference between side content being reset and a mechanic that improves Pokemon being reset. Playing with people's desire to saw their favorites succeed breeds discontent.

How does Dynamaxing address the "use or lose" problem that megas have. With every Pokemon being able dynamax and the boosts being percentage based, most people are gonna gravitate towards the strongest Pokemon that can deal with largest number of threats. You can't add a Pokemon that is poor without Dynamaxing to team a team because it will become detrimental if you need to dynamax earlier. At least with megas, weak Pokemon could potentially receive big boosts of power through stat optimization.

If GF couldn't balance 50 megas, how is dynamax gonna balanced for the 200+ final stage evolutions that will be in the game? And no, having to dynamax your own Pokemon to counter dynamaxed Pokemon for those 3 turns is not a good defense for the mechanic.

Max raids are looking really bland both visually and mechanically. Within a few raids it's all gonna blend together and feel the same due to the specialized nature of Max Moves.

Finally, I am sure that having a bunch of Pokemon could limit potential features, but they could also just limit what Pokemon you could use with potential features to regional Dex Pokemon. Sure that would piss people off, but I'd rather have that then Pokemon being removed. They could also stop releasing games annually to give time to develop those features, hire some passionate fans to get new blood into the series, and stop cutting features from games within the same generation, but killing off Pokemon is the best answer in their eyes.

Regardless of development problems, Game Freak finds new ways to cater to Gen 1 fans, at the expense of the Gen 8 so it is hard to feel too sorry for them at this point.

 

[Matleo]

If Venusaur and Blastoise get those G-forms imagine that.
Hmmm Venusaurs could activate leech seed that traps the oponent (Vine forest) and Blastoise activating Whirlpool(Ocean Typhoon)
Would realy add to Charizards move to burn down terrains and entry hazards, or add removing entry hazards to Blastoise.
Both would desrve a type change by the way when G-forming, Blastoise water/electric? or water/steel? Venusaur could grass/ghost?
Weird that they didnt used it to make Charizard fire/steel actually looking at it....

Even if only for "3 turns"... both realy should have gotten those extra megas in the past by the way.

How would it be if G-forms would gain 50% of hp and 3 stages+ for other stats during transformation?
That would not be to OP in my opinion if they become slower 1 stage after G-forming?

Note one thing the avoided abilities this time showing new G-forms. Charizard still could get something like maybe Magma Armor, would make that ability absorb stealth rocks and reduce rock damage by half and allow to un-freeze a turn after getting frozen, and reduce freezing chance.

Gengar... if they make it move make a Curse without loosing hp... or for a other ghost typa such a G-form then splendid.

Alakazam? this one would be tricky... would make it Disable a oponents move.

Causing Nightmares and putting to sleep with G-moves will be perfect. Maybe we will get new pokemon with maybe better abilities to put to sleep now? setting 3 layrs of spikes or toxic spikes? spider web? infestation? perish song? even instruct? mirror coat and counter as extra effects to moves?

G-move that freezes a oponent interesting what ice type should get that? Avalug?

Now that I think of it, G-Wobbufet could use a G-move that is both a counter and mirror coat but as a version of shielding move???
G-Mirror Counter Shield, normal typed?

would be great, protecting from damage and activating counter and mirror coat at the same time. (3 turns, you could always use status moves, try to switch or something, taking that Wobbufet will be able to use a fairy and psychic Max-move to damage oponents regulary probably)

would not be to op taking that some moves will break through like through the shielding moves? (what abilities and moves aren't acivating them? Feint??? a ability like Infiltrator and ...)

One thing is for sure we may get G-moves that add Trick Room and do other stuff... Imagine a G-move that switches oponents out every turn after it was used?

Psychic type Max-move will summon Psychic terrain? should G-max activate rooms? would be get 3 G-psychic types with forms in future?

Ghost type D-Max-move maybe will cast Curse? Maybe flinch the target or switch the target out?
Destiny Bond added as a extra effect to a G-move also would be cool for a ghost type.

Weird that they don't allow G-forms get regular Max-moves, if a pokemon would have 2 moves of the same type that will be their G-move , then only one should be a G-move and one a Max-move in my opinion... to allow them some weather casting.

Hope that we will get some more of every type because I see potential here.

Ps. imagine a battle between a regular Pikachu using a Z-move and one that uses G-form? Or a Raichu?

Hmmm Z-moves had a 25% chance of breaking through Protects, maybe Max move have a 50% chance or 100%? then semiinvulnerable moves will need to come in.

Ground and rock type G-moves will be interesting? activating rock blast? sand tomb? stealth rocks(G-Drednaw)? spikes? removing terrains?

Now seeing this I hope that if we get Generation 4 remake they make some new megas, allow Z-moves and give us some G-forms there too actually and showing that they can't all be used at once in many cases. (Gen 4 had gen 2 starters would be interesting to see how they go with them all in future)

Seriously a battle between G-Charizard and mega Charizards or Z-move Charizard would be a real thing now.
This way in future they can crate new megas, z-moves and G-forms from time to time then to focus to much on new overload of mechanics... make them still but smaller and for all and some other pokemon.
Hmmm D-max steelix could set sandstorm but Mega Steelix would gain from it.

Realy hope you can send a G-form pokemon in directly as oposed to Mega evolution in the past? Would help a lot.

Remaining types are ???

We got 18 exclusive Z-moves
(weird that Palosand, Turtonator, Drampa, Salazzle , Oranguru,Toxapex, Naganadel didn't get their respective ones there)
and regular 18 for types(+many buffs and changes related with them seperately like Splash, Teleport).
They write 29 on google, and that only 11 got it but that changed with Ultra Sund and Moon.
Rised power to Explosion power level and added a extra effect mostly.
Could be used more times during battle and get recharged and switched.
Allowed your full team to make surprise attacks during battles.
Not many actually. Like they could add them in future and buff some because they are Exclusive actualy.
Some should be possible to be obtainable in other gerions especially the Exclusive ones.
(No type changes via using moves during battle)

We got 46 pokemon and 48 mega forms...
100 bst stats rise, change of types(best thing about them) and abilities... use on one pokemon for full battle.

You could not mix Z and megas. probably the same will be with Y-rings in future.

Interesting that now every pokemon can D-max, 19 different Max-moves taking that Max-Guard is there too.
We can only Max one pokemon in battle. 3 turn limit form change. immunity to flinching.what more? hidden?
casting weather and terrains via damaging moves that normally would not do that.
8 G-forms curently and their moves with 100% effects...

makes me hope for 18 or 23 and then next games maybe some more.

all this takes a lot of time and effort when doing it actually. The thinking how to make it all work together takes time.
They realy went outside the box since gen 6, 7 and 8, when compared to previous 5 ones. Hope they don't overdo it with mechanics and try to balance it out a little in future.

__
Mew got a Z-move, Mewtwo got 2 megas, interesting what they plan for gen2 and gen4 legendaries?
G-forms would be perfect actualy for them.
Hmmm Hope they leave the trios out of it , D-max would be enough for them or a combo with a Z-move like the Tapus had.

 

[Matthew Clerkin]

If Venusaur and Blastoise get those G-forms imagine that.
Hmmm Venusaurs could activate leech seed that traps the oponent (Vine forest) and Blastoise activating Whirlpool(Ocean Typhoon)
Would realy add to Charizards move to burn down terrains and entry hazards, or add removing entry hazards to Blastoise.

How would it be if G-forms would gain 50% of hp and 3 stages+ for all other stats during transformation?
That would not be to OP in my opinion.

Note one thing the avoided abilities this time.

Gengar... if they make it move make a Curse without loosing hp... or for a other ghost typa such a G-form then splendid.

Alakazam? this one would be tricky... would make it Disable a oponents move.

One thing is for sure we may get G-moves that add Trick Room and do other stuff... Imagine a G-move that switches oponents out every turn after it was used?

Psychic type Max-move will summon Psychic terrain? should.

Weird that they don't allow G-forms get regular Max-moves, if a pokemon would have 2 moves of the same type that will be their G-move , then only one should be a G-move and one a Max-move in my opinion... to allow them some weather casting.

Kommo-o's Z move gave it just 1+ to stats and that was enough to make it OU in USuMo so +3 would be disgusting.

 

[Myth]

You didn't really say anything. The person that I was responding to (who was speaking in for yet another person, Cute Charm, who was actually the person I was responding to in the first place) said "focusing on one gimmick instead of adding new gimmicks each generation, it does feel like we are not over bloating the series with different gimmicks or starting from scratch every time a new gen rolls around." That designates the continual new mechanics as the reason why it feels like we're "starting from scratch every time." To which my contention was that it would feel like that anyway because everything gets soft-rebooted with a new gen, regardless of burst modes. Then you came along and told me "that's what's being criticized" and are now saying that what Matthew Clerkin said Cute Charm said was actually a part of some larger criticism about the nature of generations as a whole feeling like they're starting from scratch, but that's really not how I read Matthew Clerkin's post.

I interpreted what Matthew Clerkin said as "...starting from scratch (with them) every time a new gen rolls around". In your answer, you said that every generation is a start from scratch. I thought you were trying to justify that, as if were saying "every generation is its own new thing and solely because of this that should be considered justified". Sorry, I misinterpreted you.

That's not what I said. I said that every new generation was a start from scratch. The implication being that it would be this way with or without things like Mega Evolution and Gigantamax. I'm not arguing for them so much as I am questioning the blame being laid at their feet.

I see. As I said, I misunderstood you. But to be fair, again, since Matthew Clerkin was talking about mechanics specifically, I understood that they were still referring to them, as "...starting from scratch (with them) every time a new gen rolls around". But only they can tell for sure.

I am curious, yes. How would you address the fact that only a certain number of Pokémon have access to Mega Evolution, when creating Mega designs for every fully-evolved Pokémon is prohibitively impractical? And how would you adjust the mechanic to better balance the "use it or lose it" aspect of needing to activate it right away in order to fully take advantage of it? How would you do this without adding an alternative mechanic, and without changing Mega Evolution so much that it feels like something else?

Oh, there would be many possibilities. I think one of them (and the easiest one to think about) would be to have created a lot of Megas for a lot of badly competitive Pokémon. As you said, it would be impractical to create one for everyone of them, but they could have been adding a lot of them gradually through the generations. Also, keeping the nerfs or making buffs when necessary.

They could have changed it and make its effects to be temporary too. They could have added some gauge/stamina system (other than PP), and cause the Pokémon's strength and speed to decrease throught the battle. I know you said "without adding an alternative mechanic" (although I'm not sure if you were referring to burst mechanics or overall mechanics, because why would not they introduce other mechanics?), but they could introduce it into the battle system of the game as a whole (and then, when Mega Evolved, Pokémon's movements could lose much more strength through the turns, or their speed could go slowing down faster. Or could be both), or they could just introduce those changes directly into the mechanics of Mega Evolution itself only.

One other thing they could do (that would be adding an alternative mechanic), that could affect the issue of how the player uses them as you pointed out, would be to add speed multipliers to the moves, as I suggested here. That would not only make speed stat more balanced, but also make it more important in the battle. So, Mega Evolutions that deal with speed decreases (Garchomp, Abosmanow...) could be used in different ways from then on (in addition to that, it would help to balance things if they changed the stats of some of them when necessary, as I said. I think some should have their speed reduced, and the remaining stats distributed in some of the less commonly used attacks. In fact, it would be even better if they broke the "+100 points" rule, but I'm trying to be as less drastic as possible).

They could use many of those methods at the same time, many different combinations of them, or even many others that don't come to mind now. And of course, I'm just thinking of ideas in the battle system ambit. But I can even thought of some in game universe-justifications too. (The most obvious one I could think of) It could be because "Megas consumes much more of the Pokémon energy". In fact, if their intention was to keep Megas around for generations to come, I believe it would have been better if their origin explanations were different or remade. But using what we have, as an example only, they could also say "In this region we are very far from the energy of Mega Evolution (whether it would be referring to Kalos or to Hoenn), so, it doesn't last throughout all the battle here".

And what sort of additional gameplay ideas could you derive from it? Dynamax offers a gameplay feature that Mega Evolution would not translate over to quite as well, in the form of Max Raid Battles.

Well, the Max Raids could have been made either way using something inspired by Totems and the giants legends inspiration, for example. But I didn't quite understand your question here, you would like to know kinds of gameplays that could derive from Mega Evolution? Because I don't think that matters much, and Z-moves weren't really part of any big other gameplay feature either (I mean, what do you mean by gameplay feature? I would not call this as a gameplay feature, but collecting the Z-crystals count? Because you could do a lot of things like that with Megas too. And if it doesn't count, then we go back to the point of Z-moves don't being part of any other gameplay feature).

And even Dynamax, it's part of just one other gameplay feature (which as I said could exist even without Dynamax existence). And nothing guarantees that next burst mechanics would be part of others gameplays features.

But trying to answer the question properly, there would be so many possibilities that it would be a very random thing to try to speculate about, since many other things would be different, as well. But again, I don't think that should matter for a burst mechanic.

I think it goes without saying that they don't do anything for truly noble reasons. Obviously the ultimate goal is always to make money and move units off of shelves. But if they can learn from past efforts and make sharper decisions about the game design within that paradigm, well, that just seems like the process is working healthily to me.

I think that may be the issue so. As consumers, people aren't directly interested in whether they are doing it for money. Usually people will want what they think is best for the game. They are judging that something could be avoided because they think it would be better for the game from their point of view if were did so. Saying that they are wrong because that isn't the best for the game (regardless of whether you were right or not) is different from saying "doing so (by introducing one new burst mechanics and pulling out the other one) they make more money", I think no one would deny that. They're very different arguments.

And of course, most of the time, people would still be against it. Because again, they will usually prefer what they think is the best for the game, not the most greedy way. And actually, even thinking economically, I think this approach will be less profitable for them in the long run, but that's just my opinion and that would be another matter altogether.

The previous point I made about the Dex cutting was intended for Matthew Clerkin, who proposed that by not focusing on these battle mechanics, Game Freak could dedicate more time toward developing new Pokémon as well as new modes of side-content. What I was getting at there was that what Game Freak have said is that the swelling number of Pokémon actually tends to get in the way of new features, so wanting them to stop focusing on one kind of feature in order to focus on making new Pokémon and new features is essentially wanting them to remain stuck in what they've found to be an impasse. It's one thing to want a different kind of feature than Mega Evolution or Dynamax if it's going to mean fewer Pokémon in the game, but you're still going to get the tug-of-war between adding Pokémon and adding features.

In fact, I think they should increase the staff (or, if necessary, the staff of the Creatures department that takes care of the models) or take longer breaks. So I would like to have new features, all pokémon and new ones, actually. But yes, let's stick to the current scenario for a while.

What I interpreted from Matthew's post was that they meant that the time and energy and everything else spent on all things related to each new burst mechanic could be directed to creating new features or even new Pokémon. So you pointed out what Masuda said about, supposedly, the number of Pokémon preventing them from including features in old games. So, I answered you by saying that although the number of Pokémon may possibly have prevented them from introducing new features, it doesn't change the fact that the time taken to create new mechanics and their new forms can also prevent them from creating other new features too (which seemed to be Matthew's point).

Now I got you meant that Matthew wanting new Pokémon and new features could be contradicting each other. But I don't think that's the case, I don't think that would be wanting them to remain stuck in what they've found to be an impasse either, because the problem Masuda pointed out was different. It wasn't about "creating new Pokémon", because they will create new ones anyway (and they consider forms like Gigantamax to be new one as well, as we could see). What Masuda pointed out was about the number of Pokémon in its entirety. It's different. In fact, (you don't said this but) if they were introducing a low number of Pokémon because they were really preventing them from introducing some features, for example, the dex cut, theoretically, should have acted as an incentive to them to create way more.

Matthew's point was that the time taken to create new mechanics and their new forms can also prevent them from creating other new features and (other) new Pokémon too. And this is right.

As far as my division of labor point for you goes, what I'm saying is that although there is a cooperative element, the bulk of the planning work for something like Dynamax probably isn't going to be handled by the art department - they do have their part to play, when it comes to creating designs for the niche group of special Gigantamax forms, but that's a small task in comparison to their own higher priority of designing the new Pokémon for the region. It's taking up some of their time, sure, but I'd be surprised if it required an obstructively large chunk of it.

Well, but that's your speculation. I believe that depending on the case, for the art department, for example, it should take a long time, actually. Since they know that specific Pokémon has a huge fanbase, so I think they would do their best to make sure the new design won't disappoint them. But anyway, you do agree it takes some time.

And here could also enter many other points. Some of them I've adressed before, like the "slot" thing (which I think we do disagree). The fact that I mentioned earlier, of them considering these forms as new Pokémon (they called the Gigantamax revealed today as new Pokémon too, early today in the anniversary live) could affect the number of Pokémon we have in many ways as well.

That just shifts the responsibility over to whoever's setting the quotas. At the end of the day, somebody with authority probably has a general idea of about how many Pokémon, regional forms, and/or Gigantamax forms are wanted, and instructs the team to produce appropriate designs for those roles. If a design meets that somebody's criteria, then it moves forward. If not, maybe it goes back to the drawing board until it satisfies, or it doesn't, and is then consigned to the bottom drawer. I'd be surprised though if it were the somebody with authority who had to adjust their goals to account for a lack of acceptable designs more often than the artists having to revise their work until the goals are met.

I don't know if it's such a rigid process, since we know about Mega Flygon, and about Sugimori detaching and joining some evolutionary lines freely at his will, for example. But okay, yeah, that should be closer. So I will agree with that, in that sense it should not really affect it substantially.

Yeah, but that's really vague. In general, I don't quite see how poor Galarian Corsola is likely to get ruled out for stepping on Gigantamax Drednaw's toes - the two would surely be meant to fill different "slots" from the outset, given that they're designed around two very different mechanics.

I think it's much more complex. We know some Pokémon are made by story team requirements, others by requirements from the competitive department, others are just ideas people have and some artist came up with, others are made to fit the place the game is based on, and so on. And there's even an interview where Masuda says he organized the Pokédex by colors. What if he postpone some Pokémon because it had too many Pokémon from that color already and that Pokémon didn't look good recolored? We don't know. There are so many variants and overlaps that could happen. Better agree to disagree here.

But again, going back to the starting point of these two last quotes. For a bunch of already discussed reasons (that add to each other), it is entirely plausible to expect that in a generation where they don't produce burst mechanics we will have more regional forms and/or more new Pokémon.

 

[UxieLover1994]

If Mewtwo gets a Gigantamax form (if it's even in SwSh), then we have a serious issue.

But I would think that this is yet another experiment from Game Freak, and another testing ground for the Switch after LGPE, with more options (even if we can't have all 800+ Pokémon programmed here). If Dynamax provides to be a flop, it could be improved or even scrapped. We can also take note that Game Freak has made changes to the fans' benefit in the past, so there's a good chance Mega Evolution will return in a later game.

 

[Silktree]

Even when it comes to merch or the anime, the Kanto starters usually gets equal treatment.

Maybe you're right about merchandise (which is quite hard to measure), but the anime started the Charizard favoritism and that hasn't ever changed. Charizard has also received more cards than its counterparts have.

 

[nickdt]

I personally do not care about Gigantamax at all. For me, its the same as Dynamax, only with a form change, which makes the Gigantamax mechanic for me pointless. Especially the way you can obtain Gigantamax mons is extremely tedious, since during Max Raid Battles, you aren't even guaranteed to get the Pokemon in a group of four and only one gets a chance of catching the mon and to add to that, it seems those battles take longer than 20 minutes, and i don't wanna be stuck in one battle against a wild mon for so long, especially if you aren't guaranteed the capture. Most of the Gigantamax forms we have, are imo, also lazy/dumb designs Corviknight - Just a bigger one, Meowth - Stretched, Pikachu - Fat, Eevee - Similair as its Dynamax form, only the white fur is reversed + again Charizard is gonna make me hate the mechanic if Venusaur and Blastoise don't get it.

 

[Matleo]

how would people react if generations 6, 7 and 8 would be in a diffrent order?
like if gen 6 would have Galar , then gen 7 and then Kalos?
Or gen 6 would be Alola , then Galar and then Kalos?

How would you then think differently about this mechanics then and back now.
Not knowing the rest would happen?

I like all three mechanics and think they did a good job, could only do more and better from now on.

Hope that next generations try to do some more Megas, Z-moves and G-forms and other new mechanics on similar basis...
(Fussions could be like a new mega for old pokemon during double and triples battles, could allow to buff many forgotten pairs of pokemon adding type change, or a G-form after two pokemon unite)

 

[Cute Charm]

I think the problem most people have is the fact that Megas, Z-Moves, and soon to be Gigantamax have been a one generation deal. Because they're only in the spotlight for one generation, it's hard to flesh them out and make them something that people could truly give a crap about.

Like on one hand, they change up the competitive side of things by re-balancing the board, so to speak, every 3 or so years. But on the other hand...it also kills cool ideas and designs that otherwise could have been better had stuck around longer. Like for example if Megas stuck around longer than they did, more pokemon that weren't Gen I would have gotten new forms, more non-Gen I forms would have probably made more people accepting of the concept or the change in the battle structure. But nope, they never did that, and now it looks like they're pandering to Kanto mons because we never got that buffer.

It has nothing to do with the order they came in or anything. It has a lot to do with the limited amount of time they stick around for. Nobody is going to care about something that's going to be obsolete in a couple years.

 

[Knightwolf09]

I think the problem most people have is the fact that Megas, Z-Moves, and soon to be Gigantamax have been a one generation deal. Because they're only in the spotlight for one generation, it's hard to flesh them out and make them something that people could truly give a crap about.

Like on one hand, they change up the competitive side of things by re-balancing the board, so to speak, every 3 or so years. But on the other hand...it also kills cool ideas and designs that otherwise could have been better had stuck around longer. Like for example if Megas stuck around longer than they did, more pokemon that weren't Gen I would have gotten new forms, more non-Gen I forms would have probably made more people accepting of the concept or the change in the battle structure. But nope, they never did that, and now it looks like they're pandering to Kanto mons because we never got that buffer.

It has nothing to do with the order they came in or anything. It has a lot to do with the limited amount of time they stick around for. Nobody is going to care about something that's going to be obsolete in a couple years.

You can just try to have fun with it while it lasts? It's like a roller coaster, it does5last long but it's still fun to ride through at least

 

[Cute Charm]

I don't know. You can't really have fun with something you don't even know what your looking at. Let alone something as game changing as the changing battle gimmick mechanics were.

Like maybe if they changed the new battle gimmicks to every two generations, people would spend time with it and have fun with it while they get to know feel it out to see if they actually like it or not. As it is now, there's absolutely no time to get used to it or have fun with it without the battle gimmicks feeling pointless because by the time you start having fun it will all go poof in three years.

 

[venusboi79]

Maybe you're right about merchandise (which is quite hard to measure), but the anime started the Charizard favoritism and that hasn't ever changed. Charizard has also received more cards than its counterparts have.

You’re right; I totally forgot about the cards. As far as the anime goes, Charizard did start to get more attention, but for a good chunk of the early episodes, all three of them were shown as being important members of his team.