Easy games or smarter players?

[Greninjaman]

This is a question I came across: Are the games really getting easier, or are players just smarter and/or more experienced?

I think this is an interesting question. I think it's a matter of perspective. The games only SEEM like they are getting easier. What is happening is that the experience and knowledge of the player is what's making one think that. After all, a seasoned player would go at Milo with a team of of Flying/Bug/Fire/Poison/Ice types or a combination of those types. Meanwhile, a new player would not know what Pokemon to use against him.

What do you guys think?

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

SWSH DLC can be difficult. I struggle against Klara and Mustard.

 

[Greninjaman]

SWSH DLC can be difficult. I struggle against Klara and Mustard.

Well, the DLC is very new, so I'm not surprised.

 

[Daren]

Even ignoring us old folk being smarter than we used to be and the internet making looking up information easier I'd argue the games are getting easier.

Sw/Sh is interesting in that regard; it made a ton of changes intended to make getting a competitive team easier, but this also makes the game easier (it's sad there's little good post-game battling content like the Frontier in the games where making a team for one is easiest). The always-on XP share breaks the level curve very easily, then just to make sure the Isle of Armor gives you an XP booster to shatter it into even fewer pieces.

I also feel like most of the new mechanics help the player more than their opponents. It was most obvious with Mega Evolution because only some of your opponents used it.
However the big flaw it shares with Dynamax is; the AI always reserves it for their last Pokémon. This is a huge tactical advantage for the player for a few reasons. Firstly, you don't have to worry about sudden Dynamax throwing off your strategy, or the bosses Ace coming out early and throwing a wrench into things.
Secondly, it can stop the opponent from using the proper check to whomever you currently have out. I've mentioned this before, but my Salamence knocked out five of Diantha's team after Dragon Dance because her counter for it--Gardevoir--was scripted to be last, allowing the rampage to run unhindered.

 

[CynthiaLover]

This is actually an interesting concept. Frankly, to me, it's kind of a mixture of both.

On the one hand, the games are getting easier, especially due to how linear they've gotten. This is so new players can pick up the games more easily. Not to mention the fact that you now have the ability to acquire certain Mons prior to the battles where they'd be useful (ie: you can find Carkol, a Fire-type, in Galar Mine #1, which is just before Milo, a Grass Gym, and, likewise, one can find a bevy of Water Mons in Galar Mine #2 just before Kabu, a Fire Gym). The fact that the games also tends to hand the player valuable info, items, or even Mons on silver platters at certain points when they'd be really useful (ie: Korrina's second Lucario) also makes the games easier. This trend seemed to really kick in after Gen 5, as BW/B2W2 are much harder than XY (especially since Gen 5 was, in essence, a soft reboot of sorts). Not to mention newer mechanics tend to fall into the players' laps and benefit them more than the AI. Megas tend to be reserved for only select few NPCs (mainly big ones like villain team leaders and rivals) and Z-Moves are restricted to mostly Kahunas, rivals, and the occasional random NPC. Dynamaxing and Gigantamaxing are in the same boat, especially since they tend to be reserved for aces. However, as soon as the player gets their mitts on even just one piece of said mechanics they can run rampant with them virtually unrestricted. So, on one side of the spectrum, the game are getting easier, especially since GF is getting a bit more "generous" in where certain Mons can be found prior to big battles where they'd be very useful or handing out special mechanics to the player like Halloween candy as early as possible.

However, at the same time, players have gotten smarter over time. In the early days (especially before the Physical/Special split), players didn't have as readily accessible information to help them, so they had to figure things out for themselves (and we're not going to include the glitches that cropped up in earlier gens, since that throws another massive Omniwrench in the works). Sure, strategy guides existed but that was extra money spent, and while the internet did exist it wasn't the super treasure trove of info (and other content) that it is today back then, so it wasn't a massive (or even easily accessible) resource to most at the time. People eventually got the hang of things and managed to "evolve" their strategies from there, thus players are now much smarter than they were back in the first three gens, where everything, including info and resources, were more scarce. And once the Physical/Special split came into play players had to, in essence, relearn everything again, which only upped the player's brainpower as they learned the soon-to-be streamlined mechanics in later gens. And even when the Fairy type was introduced the players had gotten smart and resourceful enough that its impact was mostly a bump in the road and not a large pothole like it would've been a few gens back. As a result, players are more resourceful, have better access to information, and have smoothed out their strategies to better accommodate the new stuff introduced.

So, really, while it does boil down to one's own perspective, I feel that it's actually a mixture of both, especially for more "veteran" players compared to the newbies. The games have gotten easier due to most things being handed to the player on a silver platter while the players have also gotten smarter over time to better accommodate the new mechanics and changes that each gen (or even between game) adds. That's my 2 cents on the subject.

 

[Greninjaman]

This is actually an interesting concept. Frankly, to me, it's kind of a mixture of both.

On the one hand, the games are getting easier, especially due to how linear they've gotten. This is so new players can pick up the games more easily. Not to mention the fact that you now have the ability to acquire certain Mons prior to the battles where they'd be useful (ie: you can find Carkol, a Fire-type, in Galar Mine #1, which is just before Milo, a Grass Gym, and, likewise, one can find a bevy of Water Mons in Galar Mine #2 just before Kabu, a Fire Gym). The fact that the games also tends to hand the player valuable info, items, or even Mons on silver platters at certain points when they'd be really useful (ie: Korrina's second Lucario) also makes the games easier. This trend seemed to really kick in after Gen 5, as BW/B2W2 are much harder than XY (especially since Gen 5 was, in essence, a soft reboot of sorts). Not to mention newer mechanics tend to fall into the players' laps and benefit them more than the AI. Megas tend to be reserved for only select few NPCs (mainly big ones like villain team leaders and rivals) and Z-Moves are restricted to mostly Kahunas, rivals, and the occasional random NPC. Dynamaxing and Gigantamaxing are in the same boat, especially since they tend to be reserved for aces. However, as soon as the player gets their mitts on even just one piece of said mechanics they can run rampant with them virtually unrestricted. So, on one side of the spectrum, the game are getting easier, especially since GF is getting a bit more "generous" in where certain Mons can be found prior to big battles where they'd be very useful or handing out special mechanics to the player like Halloween candy as early as possible.

However, at the same time, players have gotten smarter over time. In the early days (especially before the Physical/Special split), players didn't have as readily accessible information to help them, so they had to figure things out for themselves (and we're not going to include the glitches that cropped up in earlier gens, since that throws another massive Omniwrench in the works). Sure, strategy guides existed but that was extra money spent, and while the internet did exist it wasn't the super treasure trove of info (and other content) that it is today back then, so it wasn't a massive (or even easily accessible) resource to most at the time. People eventually got the hang of things and managed to "evolve" their strategies from there, thus players are now much smarter than they were back in the first three gens, where everything, including info and resources, were more scarce. And once the Physical/Special split came into play players had to, in essence, relearn everything again, which only upped the player's brainpower as they learned the soon-to-be streamlined mechanics in later gens. And even when the Fairy type was introduced the players had gotten smart and resourceful enough that its impact was mostly a bump in the road and not a large pothole like it would've been a few gens back. As a result, players are more resourceful, have better access to information, and have smoothed out their strategies to better accommodate the new stuff introduced.

So, really, while it does boil down to one's own perspective, I feel that it's actually a mixture of both, especially for more "veteran" players compared to the newbies. The games have gotten easier due to most things being handed to the player on a silver platter while the players have also gotten smarter over time to better accommodate the new mechanics and changes that each gen (or even between game) adds. That's my 2 cents on the subject.

That absolutly makes sense. I do agree that it is a bit of both. Mon placement does have an impact on the difficulty of the Gyms. For example, Vermillion City's Gym is electric, but there is a cave with the ground type Diglett inside. Cinnabar Island's Gym is (obviously) on an island. The island is surrounded by Water Types which will handle the fire types easlily. There's also the nearby Seafoam Islands which has more Water types.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

After all, a seasoned player would go at Milo with a team of of Flying/Bug/Fire/Poison/Ice types or a combination of those types. Meanwhile, a new player would not know what Pokemon to use against him.

Strong disagree with this example. A new player should already know that Grass is strong against Water and weak against Fire, that's the whole point of the starter type trio. The player will have almost certainly already encountered Gossifleur by then, too (unless they're making an effort to avoid any battles, which would be weird for a new player), so they'll also have the type-effectiveness displayed in-battle.

Plus, speaking as someone who chose Sobble... you can still take out Gossifleur by Dynamaxing and using Max Geyser, and do a fair amount of damage to Eldegross, too. So even if a player was totally inept at type matchups, Milo wouldn't be a hard fight.


I honestly think it's the reverse situation- the games are getting easier, but people don't notice as much because it happens over a long period of time, so it's generally brushed off as people just getting better at the game. I know this example comes up a lot, but it bears repeating- Wulfric, the final gym leader in Kalos, uses only one more Pokemon than the first gym leader. The same is actually true for Drayden of BW and Marlon of BW2 (unless you replay the game on challenge mode). Raihan actually breaks a tradition by having four, which is two more than Milo. For comparison, in the Kanto games, Giovanni has five Pokemon, which is three more than Brock.

More numbers isn't necessarily more of a challenge, of course, but if the player is given two Pokemon to every gym leader's one, there's definitely some missed opportunity for a challenge there.

That said, though, I don't really think harder/easier is the solution to Pokemon's difficulty so much as the lack of an easy way to change it. Everyone has their own opinions on what the best difficulty is, after all, they should have choices to pick from.

 

[Minya_Nouvelle]

I think that objectively, the games are getting a bit easier, but mostly because newer games have more options as the series grows. Pokemon have larger movepools with access to more coverage; TMs/TRs aren't as rare anymore, there are way more TMs , and the regional dexes are larger and there's more variety of pokemon to catch. I think the last one is most important.

Let's look at Gen 2, for example. I remember that Claire used to be a real pain as a final gym leader. Kingdra was only weak to dragon. Which basically meant it wasn't weak to anything. Prior to the gym, you can't even catch a Dratini; not that it would help because it can only learn dragon rage. Meanwhile, in SwSh; there are a plethora of Fairy and Dragon types you can encounter prior to Raihan's gym and a whole lot more; non-fairy or dragon pokemon that can learn moves that are super effective against his team.

Thing is, I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. It's just not as easy to recreate the some of the difficulty the old games used to have. Though, honestly, aside from a few battles here and there, I don't really think the old games are all that difficult.

Edit: I also wanted to add that there are also more options to circumvent Claire's evasion tactics that didn't exist in gen 2. There are moves that remove stat increases; abilities that ignore stat increases; abilities like No Guard; abilities like Keen Eye; and more attacks that have guranteed accuracy. I think Gen 2 just had Swift, Lock-On and Mind Reader. I can't think of anything else.

 

[FelipePR]

While Pokémon was never a hard game, the newer games are pushover. Come on, in XY you have a Mega lucario before the 3 gym, while in Ruby/Sapphire remakes you have a Mega-Latio(a)s of nothing. After this, and even before, none of these games offer a challenge. On the other hand, it is truth that the internet, the easier access to information and the fact that there are more ingame options (large movepool, better itens, more and infinite TMs, etc...) has also contributed for the fall of the difficulty.

Yet, instead of increase the game base difficulty or give the player difficulty options, game-freak does the opposite .

Thing is, I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. It's just not as easy to recreate the some of the difficulty the old games used to have. Though, honestly, aside from a few battles here and there, I don't really think the old games are all that difficult.

It is not quite hard too, there are a plethora of hard room hacks to prove the point. A superior team moveset composition plus a slight better IA is, usually, enough. And the actual Pokémon games IA is vastly superior to the 3th generation, for instance.

 

[Greninjaman]

Also, Sword and Shield can be considered easier because the wild area has a MASSIVE variety of Pokemon. There's also the fact that you can access the Isle of Armor before the first Gym if I recall.

 

[Shib]

I’m of the opinion that the biggest issue for the perceived lack of difficulty in newer games is largely down the the reduction of grinding. Real difficulty comes more from smarter ai than just higher levelled opponents. Increasing the level just means more time grinding for levels and annoying grind makes for a worse experience in my opinion.

 

[Puddle]

Understanding type matchups, the difference between physical and special moves, and having a rough idea of each Pokemon's stats definitely makes the games easier for me, because it informs the choices I make in battle. I'm not a competitive battler and don't know every Pokemon's stats off by heart, but I can usually guess just by looking at the Pokemon. For example, I had a hunch that Obstagoon would have high defence because of its bulky design. I check my Pokemon's two offensive stats to see whether they're better at using physical or special moves.

Experienced players can also make the game even easier by choosing Pokemon with beneficial natures, EV training them, or giving them held items that they synergise well with, but I don't usually bother with these things during the main story.

 

[Neyo]

I’m of the opinion that the biggest issue for the perceived lack of difficulty in newer games is largely down the the reduction of grinding. Real difficulty comes more from smarter ai than just higher levelled opponents. Increasing the level just means more time grinding for levels and annoying grind makes for a worse experience in my opinion.

I agree with this 100%. It really helps that Sword and Shield basically give us staggering amounts of Exp. With the Exp. charm and candies, you can cut grinding down significantly.

 

[FelipePR]

I’m of the opinion that the biggest issue for the perceived lack of difficulty in newer games is largely down the the reduction of grinding. Real difficulty comes more from smarter ai than just higher levelled opponents. Increasing the level just means more time grinding for levels and annoying grind makes for a worse experience in my opinion.

The issue is that the actual AI is very smarter than the old ones, however the developers rarely use the AI to its full extent. And worse, when they use it they don’t always make a good employ.

Yet, despite the greater difficulty of leveling up and the greater scarcity of ingame options to build up your team, the old games are easily completed without much grind. Battle ever trainer in game is more than enough to level up your team to finish the journey. And even if your pokemons are a few levels behind, you will most likely win.

In third generation, if you train six Pokémon surely you will be a few levels behind, but if you train four you will be evenly. And, sincerly, four is enough to beat the game. Now, with the new Exp Share and easier access to Lucky Egg, you are always overleveled even with six Pokémon.

Summing up, in old Pokémon games you could grind to face a challenge, in modern games you skip battles to have a challenge. New RPG mechanic, Lol.

 

[Norzan]

The thing i do dislike with the newer games and why they feel easier to a lot of people is the fact they just give you broken stuff for no reason. Getting a Mega Latios/Latias before the sixth gym in ORAS was complete insanity.

I know i can just not use it, but it still feels wrong to be just handed out broken stuff. Can i at least earn the broken stuff through a tough challenge?

 

[RK9]

I think it's a bit of a mix of both.

While yes, people can get smarter/more experienced/internet can help you, there's also stuff like XY throwing a Mega Lucario (Who is one of the better Megas around) at you while also giving you a Mega Stone for the Kanto Starters (Who all 3 in the story, definitely aren't bad). Or ORAS giving you a Latios/Latias at a not too far-in point.

In terms of AI, I think it could definitely be improved a bit. In the Galarian Star Tournament there were numerous times for them to Dynamax but they reserve it for their ace/giga sot he chance goes away while you're just wrecking it with your own Dynamax and stacking bonus effects to snowball into a sweep.

 

[Bolt Strike]

So I was playing Crystal on 3DS VC to prepare for the Bank shutdown and something really stuck out to me (well really I remember this being the case, but I don't remember this being as bad as it is). Some of the Pokemon movesets were just straight up terrible compared to more recent games, especially their level up movesets. There were some that didn't have decent STAB moves or even any STAB moves. For example, I'm training up a Crobat and a Scyther. Crobat's only attacking moves by level up are Leech Life, Bite, and Wing Attack. That's it. You get 1 60 BP Flying move and no Poison STAB at all (heck even TMs don't help you with that, the only Poison type move Crobat can learn period in GSC is Toxic, but even if it could learn Sludge Bomb back then you'd still need to commit to using your one copy of that TM in the entire game on Crobat, so that might not help you much). Compare that to its level up moveset in SwSh and BDSP where it has Cross Poison, Absorb, Astonish, Poison Fang, Air Cutter, Bite, Venoshock, Air Slash, and Leech Life (which is now significantly buffed). Far better. Same thing with Scyther, by level up it only gets Quick Attack, Pursuit, False Swipe, Wing Attack, and Slash in Crystal, again no Bug STAB whatsoever (just Fury Cutter via TM) and just Wing Attack for Flying. But then fast forward to SV and it's added Fury Cutter, Double Hit, Air Slash, and X-Scissor. You see some similar situations with multiple other Pokemon's level up movesets. Ledian is Bug/Flying but only learns Normal type moves. Arbok's best Poison type move is 40 BP Acid. Sandslash gets no Ground type moves by level up. Forretress' strongest move that doesn't hurt or KO itself is freaking 35 BP Tackle. It goes on and on and you can find numerous examples of this littered throughout the older games, especially the first 2 generations.

This right there I think is a major factor in the difficulty being lower than it used to be. Forget the EXP Share leveling up your Pokemon like crazy. Forget getting stronger Pokemon earlier in the game. Heck, even forget that TMs are now either infinitely reusable or infinitely buyable/craftable. If these Pokemon had even just the level up moves they have in 8th/9th gen (or even as far back as 5th gen) way back in older games like Crystal, you could tear through just about anything that doesn't resist those types easily.

 

[Salmancer]

EXP Share for all Pokemon and EXP Candy for leveling without battling make it easier to keep pace with the campaign or even exceed its level expectations, but I will raise some other notes.

Health is a less valuable resource than it was in older games. For one, Pokemon Refresh and Pokemon Camp allow players to skip out on purchasing healing items when exploring the overworld, allowing for money to be saved for using items in Gyms, for TM purchases, or for powerful tools like Quick Balls, Poke Dolls, and Incense. Another mechanic is the Pokemon Box Link allowing for freely swapping Pokemon outside of Gyms. This reduces the need to retreat to a Pokemon Center or spend Potions on overworld exploration. It also makes tailor building teams for any challenge much more feasible, as you can use a team for fighting wild Pokemon, then bust out a 100% undamaged counter team for a Rival battle or evil team battle.

The newer TM systems generally also make the game easier. Here's a personal anecdote. I wanted to use Budew in early Sword to evolve it. To encourage myself to keep it on the team despite its struggles as a Baby, I used a TR I got from Max Raiding to give it Seed Bomb. That's an 80 power move... and I did this before the second Gym. (Which is Water type.) That's absurd. Being able to get powerful moves early on because they are drops from Raiding also contributes to a lower difficulty. For similar reasons, being able to use the Move Relearner without spending Heart Scales makes that feature more accessible and reduces difficulty. That means less grinding/exploration is needed to relearn moves, including strong moves that are Move Relearner exclusive.

Being older and more knowledgeable about Pokemon does make the game easier in its own ways. Being older makes the benefits of Held Items, Abilities, and field conditions more apparent, and building synergistic teams becomes more second nature. Weaker moves are more readily cut for stronger moves. Personally, I understand what "sweeping" means now, which makes opponents who can't put on pressure early easier if I feel like using a set-up sweeper. Plus, a better understanding of stats makes it easier for older players to maximize their Pokemon's potential and minimize battling capabilities of opponents. But I think that doesn't really compare with the QoL features in newer games giving those older players more resources to use against challenges.

(This isn't exclusively a new development. Quick Balls were introduced all the way back in Diamond and Pearl, and save players money, time, and HP by sometimes succeeding in turn 1 captures where other Poke Balls would fail.)

 

[mastermind lissi]

I think it’s mostly just people getting better at Pokémon in general. When I first started the series I played through shining pearl with difficulty due to my water dependant team with zero balance.

Then I played through sword. Again, I had a messed up balance on my team, but it wasn’t as bad as before. I still struggled through a lot of the gyms, and I don’t think I managed to beat any first try.

Then scvi came out. I like to think of myself as a semi experienced player now. I get stat moves and held items and everything now, and this time managed to one shot a few gyms, but I think the open world messed up my brain and sent me to some overleveled gyms.. anyways, It was easier than before, but I still had to take a few tries to beat most of the big people. I did build a team with better balance, but ended up with two ghost types because I needed Ceruledge and mismagius)

I think when the next game comes out it will be the same. I’m a lot better at Pokémon now, but I also don’t expect myself to one shot each gym next time (also I still don’t really care about Evs and Ivs in my normal playthrough) but I do expect myself to build a better balanced team and fare a bit better against the gym leaders.

This is just how I see it in my experience, not saying everyone’s like this

 

[colours]

hm.

i lean more on the side of people getting "older" and as such smarter when it comes to pokemon games rather than the games themselves becoming easier. that said, i can definitely see the perspective of a lack of difficulty in some of the games, because i can't exactly recall struggling much even back in my childhood days. a lot of the fights that are designed to be "tough" back then (with the exception of gen 4 cynthia, i suppose) you can probably brute force even with shitty movesets, they aren't exactly that difficult as long as you have some rough idea of the type chart and you weren't underleveled, idk.

speaking of the movesets themselves... in my childhood days, i used to think anything that wasn't an attacking move was a waste of time. i don't recall this setting me back in any gym fights in game, because aside from battle frontier, there wasn't anything that set back too much in this way of thinking. not sure what exactly occurred that caused me to change this per se but it must've been something because slapping four fire moves on a fire type isn't exactly the big brained strategy i thought it was, and eased more into learning status moves and learning how to use them strategically.

as far as recent pokemon games go? i... i dunno. there's an argument to be made that they are easier to a degree if you make them easier. i think the introduction of exp candies proves this, because if you really wanted to grind for exp candies and trivialize the game, you absolutely can and are able to even though recent games don't exactly intend for you to be at double the level of early gym leaders. there may be a bit more challenging if one were to choose not to go this route perhaps so their party would be on roughly the same level as the gym leaders and whatnot, but idk.

it's honestly probably a bit of both, even though i lean more towards people generally getting better at pokemon games.