• Hey guys! Have you heard? We now have popup
    Yes, Popups!
    messages for your forum posts. Learn more about it here!
  • To keep up with the hype driven by Sword and Shield's release, we are taking applications for new moderators in our Current Events: Sword and Shield as well as Anime and Manga sections.

    For more information, see this thread.We hope you all consider joining our team!
  • We hope you're enjoying Sword and Shield so far! So that everyone can enjoy it and not be spoiled, please keep the all story spoilers and any images from the games in the appropriate sections or in spoiler tags until January 3rd.

    Since spoiler tags are not allowed in signatures, please do not put images from the games in your signature either. You can list the names of new Pokémon if you want to list your team in your signature.
  • We're launching a brand new series on the official Bulbagarden YouTube Channel! Watch here as AussieEevee attempts the Nuzlocke Challenge in HeartGold.
  • The forums' software will be updated on December 9th, 2019 and may be down for several hours to multiple days for this process. Thank you for your patience, we hope this update will improve your experience here.

    Why not join us over on discord during the downtime?

Episode N: Did the anime do the arc justice?

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
295
Reaction score
4
For the most part I think that the arc was handled very well. I was surprised to hear the anime bring up the whole idea about humans and pokemon being separated, especially with N's sisters. N himself was also handled very well although he could be a bit reckless at times (jumping in front of an attack and such.) Colress was the best thing to come out of that arc. I loved his entire character.

The things I didn't like as much were
1, the random filler episodes thrown into the arc. Those episodes could have easily gone anywhere else in BW.
2, Not going more into Ghetsis' and N's relationship. In the games Ghetsis is N's father but that's not mentioned at all in the anime. In fact the two didn't really speak that much anyway.
3, The fact that Ghetsis barely did a thing. All he really did was awaken Reshiram. It was Colress who was doing pretty much all of the work.
4, No mention of the other Seven Sages besides in a brief flashback, and even then they weren't mentioned, just shown.

Overall, Episode N was pretty much the best arc to come out of BW. It did feel really rushed towards the end but at least they actually gave N an arc of his own instead of just not showing him at all.
 

G50

Night Owl
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
6,083
Reaction score
102
One thing I felt was done really well, was showing N's background and the way he was viewing Pokemon and battles when being with Ash and his friends. Colress and Ghetsis' personalities were displayed as very creepy, and I felt that it boded well for their characters.

I agree, Ghetsis could've used more appearances and involvement. Instead of mainly being used for the last couple of episodes and scolding everyone when they failed each time.
 
NCIS Special Agent
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
134
Not as well as it could have, mostly because it got tacked on after the main BW adventure. I know TPTB had planned to do more, and Mother Nature threw a monkey into the wrench on that. Otherwise, we could have actually seen the conflicts that would drive N and Team Plasma apart, instead of relegating it to backstory. It would've also given more time to show N's beliefs changing with the aforementioned conflicts.
 
Rainbows everywhere
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
403
Reaction score
3
I just wanted N to get animated, so I couldn't really be mad about the results. For someone who doesn't watch the anime often, I thought it was pretty good, and fulfilled my expectations (they weren't high though). Colress was honestly the standout, and his choice faces in the later episodes were hilarious. I also wish Ghetsis got more screentime too, but I thought it was fine for what it was.

One other thing though is that I wish they animated N better. I swear he looked awful for most of the scenes he was in.
 
ロケット団よ永遠
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
10,840
Reaction score
1,623
DracoMan said:
I know TPTB had planned to do more, and Mother Nature threw a monkey into the wrench on that.
Nope. There is absolutely no evidence that the producers of the animated series had anything planned for the Plasma-Dan after the banned two-parter.
 
The Coolest Character in the Worst Series
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,356
Reaction score
2,334
Not really. It was like the Producers just wanted to put N and Team Plasma on the show for sake of having them appear. There was a lot more they could've done with this storyline, but they treated it like busy work and/or pandering (which they didn't even do as much of as they should have).

The fact that the arc was so short in favor of moving onto Dregolore almost feels like evidence they were half-assing it...
 
Last edited:
NCIS Special Agent
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
134
DracoMan said:
I know TPTB had planned to do more, and Mother Nature threw a monkey into the wrench on that.
Nope. There is absolutely no evidence that the producers of the animated series had anything planned for the Plasma-Dan after the banned two-parter.
The banned two-parter is what I was referring to. That's more, right? Though there is no way to know what else might've been planned.
 
Jacen the Robot Floatzel
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
1,782
Reaction score
323
Episode N was probably the anime's first attempt at an ongoing story arc that lasted several episodes and wasn't a tournament arc, and let's just say that it was, for a lack of better word, experimental at best. My only problems with it was that Team Plasma acted more like Team Rocket (outside the TRio) and little like they did in the games (BW1 or BW2), as well as ignored many aspects of them, the filler episodes that were shoehorned in for no real reason, Ghetsis barely having any focus, and his relationship with N barely being explained.

Had the original TR vs. TP episodes aired, Episode N may have been different, but we may never know at this point, for the damage has already been done, and Ash is already in Kalos, which has it's own villain team (let's hope Team Flare gets better treatment in the anime than Plasma did), so there's no going back at this point.

The anime should experiment more with ongoing story arcs in XY, which will help the anime improve from the repetitive tropes it's been trapped in for past seasons.
 
Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
128
Reaction score
2
No, it only made it worse. The arc was poorly written, and Team Plasma were nothing like they were in the games.
 
Lovely
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
14,109
Reaction score
3,556
It was a new attempt, and I'd say it was a good thing they experimented with Episode N, even if it wasn't well depicted in some ways. Some characters like Cheren and Ghetsis could had done more than just be there for the sake of existing. Other characters like Colress and N were well fleshed out (especially Colress, who reflected his game counterpart exceptionally well).

Episode N also shows how the Pokemon anime can be a good series with arcs focused around serious plots (Episode N was somewhat more mature in terms of topic) and still be popular with viewers of all ages. Moreover, bringing the game plot doesn't harm the anime in any way - in fact, it was refreshing to see plots and characters related to the main storyline of the games in the anime.


While it could have done better, Episode N was a good experiment done by them. I hope they experiment more and try new things often than just recycling old ways.
 
PokéJoker
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
44
Reaction score
0
The N arc was decent I guess...there was nothing that bad about it but there was nothing that great either.

The last episode felt a bit rushed though.
 
A deeper shade of blue
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
1,556
Reaction score
265
I liked the beginning and middle parts of it, but the ending was very rushed. I think it could have benefited from having a few more episodes and have the Decolora arc start a bit later.
 
I poke your snoot
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
1
I thought it was the best part of the BW series, albeit thrown in just for fanservice. (and that Charizard episode with the flashbacks was fanservice on top of fanservice!) Team Plasma and the episode stories were much more interesting and entertaining than most of the cheesy fillers with bland plots in other arcs. N was handled very well and the anime writers kept him very close to his game character. The only thing that was different about him was that he didn't battle or carry his own Pokemon.

I don't think Colress was portrayed accurately though. In the games, he's a multidimensional, amicable character who's only interested in science and doesn't really like Ghetsis. In the anime, he's just a mad scientist with a possession ray gun working closely with his boss. Count me among those who think the ending was rushed. Decolore really didn't need to be as long. I wish they did more about N and Reshiram's interaction besides saying a few words.
 
█ dragons
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
134
Reaction score
8
I felt like it was the best part of Best Wishes, partially because it felt more like the games that I played, rather than entirely different story. That's why Origins was so awesome to me, I like it when things follow the games more and pay them that respect. I think that N and Ghetsis's relationship could've been done differently, but at the end of the day.. they animated N's story, and some of the things surrounding it, and that was very cool to me. I was really glad they did it, so I tried not to judge it too harshly.
 
Call me Robert guys
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
845
Reaction score
4
Well since I could really care less about TP I would say it was okay.

The only thing I didn't like is that there wasn't even the Charizard vs Reshiram battle. Oh and I would of liked some more team updates and a few good battles for Ash.
 
Only 79 new Pokemon?
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
559
No!

The only reason I was even interested for it was the promise of Charizard vs Reshiram and the writers gave up a half assed plot that went nowhere and was solved by the same old fucking Pikachu friendship crap.
 
Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
551
Reaction score
2
I don't really think so. I thought the arc was pretty poorly put together in some places. I suppose the arc was supposed to streamline Team Plasma's plot by mixing together elements from BW1 and BW2 but it overlooks all the best aspects of Team Plasma. I really don't like their shtick of Pokemon liberation was nowhere to be found. I mean, anime Team Plasma is basically no different from Team Rocket. Minus Ghetsis manipulating N and Helena/Verbana, everything Team Plasma does in Episode N could be done by Team Rocket and nobody could spot the difference. Also, while freezing Ghetsis and friends solid and trapping them is kinda inspired, the show really didn't earn it. Ghetsis never even says one word to any of the main characters besides N. (But then again, the finale episode in general was disappointing)


I'll just quote another post I made about why I really don't like Episode N.
My answer got kinda long, so I put it in a spoiler. Brevity is not my strong suit.
First off, Pokémon Liberation. This is one of the biggest parts of Team Plasma, and what I found most intriguing, and to see it completely absent in the anime is kind of disheartening. Even before the seismic disaster, it looks like the writers had no intentions of adapting the liberation plotline. :(

I didn't find anime Team Plasma all that interesting. Their goal is to control Pokémon and use them to conquer. What about that stands out? If you took everything Team Plasma does in Episode N and had Team Rocket do it instead, how would it be any different or any less fitting?

Another thing I liked about game!Plasma was their interactions with N. Unlike the games, nobody in Team Plasma barring Ghetsis really interacts with N or feels strongly about him one way or the other. He is supposed to be their leader gone AWOL, right? His not being coronated shouldn't really change that. Also, in BW117 (the episode with the raging Haxorus), Team Plasma's secondary goal is to capture N. At the end of the episode, he's conveniently unconscious and heavily injured, and they just retreat. Um, what?

The storytelling I also found a little dissatisfying. The flashback episode really steps all over "Show, don't tell" in my opinion. We're given bits of backstory there and in other episodes that was also in the games (e.g. N being an ex-Plasma member, N and his sisters being misled by Ghetsis, N meeting lots of trainers and Pokémon along his journey, causing him to change his views) but I wish we would have actually seen this stuff like in the games instead of being crammed into flashbacks or exposition.

I feel like some things are unclear. For example, what exactly are Concordia and Anthea doing for Team Plasma? Are we to assume they're taking care of N like in the games? Granted, a lot of things character-wise with Team Plasma in the games is pretty unclear too, so I guess I can't really fault the anime writers for this. I thought the home in a magic fog dimension was kinda silly, but we've seen mystical elements before.

The Sages. What happened to them? Were they all burned alive by Reshiram in the flashback or something, and that's why they don't appear or are even mentioned at all outside of it? N does mention that he was "spared", but what does that mean, especially given that Ghetsis is A-OK after the whole ordeal? I guess the whole ceremony was supposed to be a nod to the games, but it just leaves me puzzled. Did Ghetsis fire them all or something? The writers had no problem not including the Shadow Triad, so I guess it's kinda weird that they included the Sages in what's basically a glorified cameo which raises questions about where they are now. They could have shown the Sages supervising operations or something like in the games. But I guess then they would have to actually design them instead of having them all look the same... [although the sages have unique designs in the games, so it shouldn't be a problem.]

I've mentioned this a few times already, but N acts like the Reshiram seen in that flashback and the one revived from the Light Stone are one and the same, which is a little impossible, so what's up with that?

Ghetsis bothers me. He doesn't really do anything before the finale. He just sits on his throne, talking with the underlings. He wants N re-captured for some reason. N doesn't further his plan, much unlike the games. When he summons Reshiram, he even talks about how he doesn't need N anymore. So why does he want N brought back to him? Also, none of the good guys bar N even talk to Ghetsis. Not one word!

For what he is, Colress is OK. I don't like how he's so one-note in that he focuses pretty much just on controlling Pokémon. What happens to his interest in many different potential methods of drawing out a Pokémon's power, like the bond between trainers and Pokémon?

Ahh, the finale episode. I didn't really like it. There are several points during the episode where Colress and Ghetsis just stand around doing nothing while Ash, N, Team Rocket and co. converse. That's probably my biggest flaw. That's just not how good villains work. You don't stand around and not use your unstoppable army so that the main characters can do stuff. I think that episode is poorly structured. Having control of Reshiram plus the army should have made Team Plasma completely unstoppable but the heroes won somehow. It's hard to get involved. It's like I'm watching two incoherent different conflicts: Ash vs. Colress and N vs. Ghetsis, and Ash is only there because he's the main character. Well, more like 1 and a half conflicts, since N doesn't really do anything besides talk to Reshiram. Ghetsis doesn't do much after he summons Reshiram, so, uh, one conflict? Hilda/Hilbert was one of the legendary heroes, so they had an important part in the conflict.

I guess this doesn't have to do with Team Plasma, but the absence of Zekrom is pretty noticeable too. Reshiram and Zekrom probably have the greatest connection of all legendary duos, but it's only explored in Movie 14. The TV series doesn't touch on it one bit.
I feel like the sequence we saw in Black and White was far more logical, meaningful, engaging, and climatic then what we got here. As for Black and White 2, I liked Team Plasma's role there less, but they were still pretty solid. Isn't it ironic how Team Plasma's presence probably has the greatest scope of all the villainous teams in the games, but their anime run doesn't reflect that at all?

I think Team Galactic had the best run of all the anime villainous teams. Why do I think that?
Well, it helps that the anime didn't discard their major shtick. It doesn't hurt that every major character was worked into the story. A lot of aspects of Team Plasma are altered from the games [e.g. Cyrus' background, where's he a construction mogul instead of a robotics guy] and some are outright ignored [like Team Plasma's facade of looking for alternative energy, or their stealing Pokémon] but I feel all the changes work. Needing the Adamant and Lustrous Orbs to summon Dialga/Palkia? It makes sense, and gives them a purpose. Hiring Hunter J to capture the Lake Guardians? A great way to work her in.

You know what I really loved? How Cyrus actually did something. Besides Giovanni dealing with Mewtwo, he's really the only villainous boss to do anything of note before the big finale. [and then Giovanni's battling was off-screen in the Mewtwo special!]

In the Team Galactic finale, making Ash and friends connected to the Lake Guardians is really nice because it makes them an important part of the confrontation. Like I said, during the Team Plasma finale, I felt like I was watching two different fights! Ash vs. Colress and N vs. Ghetsis. Ash's interaction with Ghetsis is basically non-existant. Even though they didn't do much in the end, I definitely appreciated the attempt to make Dawn and Brock relevant! They and Cynthia definitely did more than Cilan and Juniper.

In fact, I'm kind of scratching my head wondering how Reshiram didn't instantly defeat all of the good guys. With Dialga and Palkia, the three Lake Guardians plus Cynthia's Godchomp were there to make sure Ash and co. didn't get turned to roadkill. During the Team Plasma finale, there's almost nothing stopping Reshiram from running over Ash and friends except the fact that the show would be over if it did. In addition, Cyrus and his underlings were focused on the creation of their new world, so it's pretty sensible that they wouldn't focus too much on the protagonists. A lot more justified than Colress and Ghetsis standing around doing nothing while Ash plots with N and Team Rocket.

I would have liked to see a proper battle between the Ash and friends and the Team Galactic Commanders, and I do wonder how the writers might have worked in the Distortion World like in Platinum if not for Movie 11, but I still found the finale to be pretty solid.
Don't worry, this isn't that long!
I like to think Decolora Adventure was the best arc of BW, if only because it didn't have too many big events to mess up.
 
Last edited:
Administrator
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
10,536
Reaction score
8,684
While Episode N probably was my favorite part of BW, I don't think that it was handled all that well either. They ignored everything that made Team Plasma the most interesting out of all of the evil teams for me and turned them into a generic group that wanted to control Reshiram because of reasons. To be fair, it would be kind of difficult to pull in enough elements from the B/W storyline at that point of the series and I think that the sequels being last minute decisions threw a wretch into the works, but it was really lackluster to turn the group into such a generic bunch. The organization didn't even feel that large, despite having the resources to revive a bunch of Genesect, considering they had the same grunts present in most of the Team Plasma episodes. Ghetsis was a pretty much inactive until the last episode and even then that wasn't much.

They did get N's characterization from the games pretty well, which was nice, but seeing more of his character development on-screen, instead of doing that primarily off-screen, would have been nice He had moments where meeting others while traveling with Ash and his friends affected his view point, such as realizing that the Pokemon in that harbor patrol wanted to save people instead of just doing what they were ordered to do, and if there were more moments like that, it could have helped to make the arc more interesting. Doing that mostly off-screen kind of weakened his potential though. Colress's characterization was also kept fairly well.

The pacing was a bit lackluster too. They rushed through the League to get to Episode N, but then rushed Episode N to get to the Decolore Islands arc. The ending was pretty anticlimactic, especially when Charizard didn't do anything significant after they made a big deal about its return. The arc had some good elements and if it had a bit more time and better execution, it probably would have been a much stronger arc than it actually was.
 
Get in the bag Nebby
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
1,603
Reaction score
993
No!

The only reason I was even interested for it was the promise of Charizard vs Reshiram and the writers gave up a half assed plot that went nowhere and was solved by the same old fucking Pikachu friendship crap.
This was 1 reason why I disliked it. Another reason is that Team Plasma was more like Team Low IQ and that Team Low IQ were back to being unfunny morons again. They should have used the BW1 Team Plasma plot instead of what we got and Team Low IQ should have never returned after Operation Tempest.
 
Administrator
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
10,536
Reaction score
8,684
This was 1 reason why I disliked it. Another reason is that Team Plasma was more like Team Low IQ and that Team Low IQ were back to being unfunny morons again. They should have used the BW1 Team Plasma plot instead of what we got and Team Low IQ should have never returned after Operation Tempest.
I would have liked to see them use B/W Team Plasma plot instead, but it was just far too late in the series to adapt that storyline, especially when B2/W2 had already been out for quite some time by then. Plus, I think that it would have been difficult to cover that plot in one arc, especially if it would have been as rushed as Episode N turned out.
 
Top