Review "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens" & "Pikachu and Eevee Friends"

[Sweet Veil]

To keep myself from blowing a gasket, I'm gonna refrain from replying to further belittlement of children's intelligence.

It's not putting down the brains of young children, Adamant's points are very much valid. Two years is a sizable gap between the airing of the original movie and the premiere of the new one, a large amount of the target audience probably haven't seen that Johto special either.

 

[FANG-TAN]

It's not putting down the brains of young children, Adamant's points are very much valid. Two years is a sizable gap between the airing of the original movie and the premiere of the new one, a large amount of the target audience probably haven't seen that Johto special either.

There was more than a two-year gap when they actually showed Kasumi in the show, yet they didn't mind slipping her into non-speaking cameos in the recent episodes and ending. Heck, the Mewtwo special itself had a two year gap between it and the first movie, yet the relationship between them was obvious and they weren't afraid to hide a thing. There are kids that stick to the fandom for more than two years...

I'll drop it after this post, but it's honestly strange to me. Using that logic they shouldn't acknowledge *anything* past a year old. And using that logic, they should just make an entirely new series because the new viewers wouldn't care. An assumption is an assumption, unless he can give me some statistics that says "most of" the kids that are watching this show now have just recently entered the fandom as of this year, he has no place to say his assumption is more right than others. He's free to think what he wants, but really?

The intelligence comment wasn't directed at him by the way, but in general.

 

[Garren]

If you think about it though, I imagine the Anime staff didn't have exactly a choice in the matter completely...if Gamefreak created a new Mewtwo Forme, than they probably more or less wanted the Anime to promote it as well. I guess they chose the lesser of the two evil, imo, and created a new Mewtwo to showcase it as opposed to drudging up the old one. Of course, I guess your opinion on whether or not they did a good job is subjective, but I don't really think they did this out of spite for Shudo or anything.

 

[Dogasu]

I'm surprised no real picture of "Orotto" have surfaced yet.

People have learned their lesson from all that went down with the Victini reveal at the end of the Zorro'ark movie. Nobody's stupid enough to try taking a picture of the movie screen and then uploading it to the Internet.

 

[Silktree]

In the movie... well, to me, who listened to it once as it played on live TV, the line did not sound like it had the intonation of an outright question. To me.
Take it for what it's worth.

I'm pretty sure that the kiddies you've been talking about wouldn't see it as anything but a question. Ash looks completely dumbfounded.

 

[Garren]

I'm surprised no real picture of "Orotto" have surfaced yet.

People have learned their lesson from all that went down with the Victini reveal at the end of the Zorro'ark movie. Nobody's stupid enough to try taking a picture of the movie screen and then uploading it to the Internet.

Everyone's looking forward to your artistic interpretation of it when (if?) you see the movie, Dogasu.

 

[Fennekin]

I'm surprised no real picture of "Orotto" have surfaced yet.

People have learned their lesson from all that went down with the Victini reveal at the end of the Zorro'ark movie. Nobody's stupid enough to try taking a picture of the movie screen and then uploading it to the Internet.

I'm sorry, but I don't recall what happened with the Victini reveal. Care to elaborate?

 

[ArginX]

I've yet to see the movie but I've seen plenty of extended trailers. But many things merit comment so far.

First off, what a gorgeous movie. There's so much to cry about here, and yet I feel as if I'm crying in a Ferrari, as the expression goes. Granted, the reason I'm crying is precisely because of the Ferrari being revealed to have the engine of a car from the 1950's, but still... what a way to end BW!--a beautiful (although it screams Isshu-nception) depiction of Manhattan featuring a speed battle between different badass manmade Pokemon. Even the soul-crushing reality of this being a different Mewtwo can't completely take away everything this movie seems to offer in the way of gorgeous scenery and badass legendary battles. I know that many here are claiming that these two things don't matter in a Pokemon movie, but that seems silly.



Now, on to Mewtwo... I know it's been said but it is just simply impossible to even begin to understand at all. First off, let's remember that they've been reusing old Pokemon since 2005 with Mew. Doesn't the entire plot of the first movie break down, back to the Rocket Gang even being in South America to find Mew in the first place, if this 'ultra-elusive South American Pokemon' was actually widely known to reside virtually two or three towns away from Sakaki's Gym HQ? If you think about it this is basically just as huge a plot hole as this Mewtwo, which is saying quite a lot. However, its story was otherwise executed so effectively that it's almost hard to even care.

Contrast that to this Mewtwo. In any scenario the existence of a second Mewtwo would be dubious, but like M08's Mew its existence could be justifiable (or even semi-justifiable) by virtue of being part a unique and well-told story in its own right. But instead they decided to base the entire movie and its plot around a location that the original Mewtwo ended his story at. Yeah, 'New Tork City' is a convenient pun cause the speed theme, but that theme that was pulled out of their ass from the get-go, because neither Genesect nor Mewtwo has ever been known for 'speed' outside of this movie, and if we're to trust MageLeif's rumors there's a second, non-speedy Mewtwo forme anyways. There was no particular reason why NYC made sense as a location if this movie featured 'a' Mewtwo... and yet this location makes almost too much sense in the case of the movie featuring the Mewtwo. Because Mewtwo was there. In the end of Mewtwo: I am Here, he was standing on top of a building looking out at a city which clearly was NYC. I don't need to extrapolate. The bricks had all been fucking set up more than a decade earlier, and by sheer lucky chance at that.

There is virtually no way that this isn't in fact the very reason why NYC was decided as a location from the get-go, and perhaps even the very reason why Mewtwo's Awakened forme was chosen for the movie. Any doubt of this plain fact should be shattered if you look at the newest trailers--Mewtwo is standing on top of buildings in New Tork City, at night time, in the same pose! It is for this reason that the fact that this is a different Mewtwo is so utterly mystifying. Not only were the pieces there by luck, but the movie in its entirety is so clearly based upon the decision to exploit the convenience of those pieces! It seems almost as though we were deliberately set out to be trolled to the highest degree from the very beginning!

But the realistic conclusion is, in my mind, that Dogasu and FANG-TAN were correct in their speculation that Ichimura's availability was the determining factor here. Actually, I find it very likely that there was in fact an ongoing battle to get Ichimura back from the beginning, and that this led to Yuyama and co. being more cautious in finishing (or even announcing) the planning stages of the movie. Remember back in December, when everyone was so perplexed as to why the movie's title (Shinsoku no Genosect) seemed to leave out the possibility of a new Pokemon on what was clearly the eve of a new generation--something which has never happened before? (See M02, M09, and M13!) And when the full title was revealed, it seemed just as odd that the 'new Pokemon' on the eve of a new generation was in fact just Mewtwo, and that its part in the title was unprecendentedly tacked on and nonsequitorial. All of this could very possibly lead to the conclusion that the planning and making of this movie was far less successfully planned and carried out than has been the case in a long time, no?

I guess what I'm asking is, does Ichimura have a Twitter? Because I think if anything there's bound to have been some ultimately-failed attempt to get him to play the role, and what better than to ask him directly?

 

[Silktree]

Even the soul-crushing reality of this being a different Mewtwo can't completely take away everything this movie seems to offer in the way of gorgeous scenery and badass legendary battles. I know that many here are claiming that these two things don't matter in a Pokemon movie, but that seems silly.

I haven't seen anyone suggest that those things don't matter, but personally, I consider them wholly secondary to the story and characters. I have no motivation to watch a movie just for those things if the plot is barebones and/or contradictory.

First off, let's remember that they've been reusing old Pokemon since 2005 with Mew. Doesn't the entire plot of the first movie break down, back to the Rocket Gang even being in South America to find Mew in the first place, if this 'ultra-elusive South American Pokemon' was actually widely known to reside virtually two or three towns away from Sakaki's Gym HQ?

First of all, that point was barely made in the first movie, so it's only important in the context of the CD drama. As for Movie 8, I was somewhat disappointed that no connection to the original Mew was made, but suffice to say that the existence of a second Mew doesn't require a contrived explanation. It isn't hard to explain why Team Rocket didn't know about that Mew: It was a thing of legend that very few people knew about. Even if the rumor got out, Mew was extremely well protected in the Tree of Beginning, as the movie explained very well.

Above all, Movie 1 barely focused on Mew, and so Movie 8 made up for it (not fully, but I digress). In contrast, Movie 16 barely does anything with Mewtwo that hasn't been done before. We saw the original Mewtwo take the role of a protagonist in the TV special, and the new Mewtwo doesn't even get along with people, which would have been my guess for a new plot for the species. The Forme adds nothing story-wise as far as the movie is concerned (hopefully this means nothing for the games).

Remember back in December, when everyone was so perplexed as to why the movie's title (Shinsoku no Genosect) seemed to leave out the possibility of a new Pokemon on what was clearly the eve of a new generation--something which has never happened before? (See M02, M09, and M13!) And when the full title was revealed, it seemed just as odd that the 'new Pokemon' on the eve of a new generation was in fact just Mewtwo, and that its part in the title was unprecendentedly tacked on and nonsequitorial. All of this could very possibly lead to the conclusion that the planning and making of this movie was far less successfully planned and carried out than has been the case in a long time, no?

By December the movie was nearly done, so there is no way that the oddity of the title means anything. It would have been odd with any Pokémon, and I'm sure that Genesect was never going to be the only star.

I guess what I'm asking is, does Ichimura have a Twitter? Because I think if anything there's bound to have been some ultimately-failed attempt to get him to play the role, and what better than to ask him directly?

He doesn't seem to be on Twitter. Regarding his availability, it's not as if he was working on another project at the time, and he isn't sick or retired since he is now working on a movie that will be released next year.

 

[ArginX]

I haven't seen anyone suggest that those things don't matter, but personally, I consider them wholly secondary to the story and characters. I have no motivation to watch a movie just for those things if the plot is barebones and/or contradictory.

Fair enough. I do think that the plot is more canonically unsound than bad storytelling, although I definitely agree that it makes it even worse that this Mewtwo's story is basically a retelling. (I did make that point above, in part)

First of all, that point was barely made in the first movie, so it's only important in the context of the CD drama. As for Movie 8, I was somewhat disappointed that no connection to the original Mew was made, but suffice to say that the existence of a second Mew doesn't require a contrived explanation. As for why Team Rocket didn't know about that Mew, that can be easily explained by the fact that it was a thing of legend that very few people knew about. Even if the rumor got out, Mew was extremely well protected in the Tree of Beginning, as the movie explained very well.

Well in terms of canon, it's pretty relevant to the first movie as well considering that Mew was still found in the Andes in the beginning of the film. And I'm certainly not saying that I think the existence of a second Mew period requires an explanation in the least; it's just that I find it infinitely more feasible for the Rocket Gang to hear of a seldom-heard of thing of legend a few miles north of their HQ than for them to somehow miraculously hear of a seldom-heard of thing of legend from an ancient deserted village in the Andes. And remember they only wanted some DNA; they expressed no desire to actually capture the live critter.

By December the movie was nearly done, so there is no way that the oddity of the title means anything. It would have been odd with any Pokémon, and I'm sure that Genesect was never going to be the only star.

That sounds like an incredibly early time to already be on the finishing stages of the movie! And I'm hardly suggesting that Genesect was ever planned to be the only star, quite the opposite--I was suggesting instead that the fact that Mewtwo wasn't revealed alongside Genesect in December might say something about how ill-organized the production was and the reasoning behind it. It would have made more sense had the title been 'Shinsoku no Genosect to Mewtwo' from the get-go, and then revealed Awakened form in February alongside a title change to 'Shinsoku no Genesect to Mewtwo no Kakusei he'.

He doesn't seem to be on Twitter. Regarding his availability, it's not as if he was working on another project at the time, and he isn't sick or retired since he is now working on a movie that will be released next year.

Yeah, that's what's so strange about it. I suppose it is also possible that the movie staff planned in the initial stages to include Ichimura and wrote the plot based on a continuation of his Mewtwo's story, but then simply... changed their mind out of the blue. That it had something to do with an inability or reluctance to use him seems more sensible (if you can possibly use such a word in this context) though.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I think the first trailer (in February) is in line with what I just speculated, both due to Satoshi's recognition of Mewtwo and (far more significantly) h(...)er strange lack of any sort of speaking role in said trailer.

 

[Silktree]

it's just that I find it infinitely more feasible for the Rocket Gang to hear of a seldom-heard of thing of legend a few miles north of their HQ than for them to somehow miraculously hear of a seldom-heard of thing of legend from an ancient deserted village in the Andes. And remember they only wanted some DNA; they expressed no desire to actually capture the live critter.

The Birth of Mewtwo more or less answers your question:

One afternoon 20 years ago, a Rocket-Dan agent named Miyamoto (ミヤモト) made a report that gained the attention of the boss of the Rocket-Dan at that time, Sakaki's mother. She presents the boss with a tape made in the South American amazon with a highly sensitive microphone. The female boss stops her to ask how much the mic was, and Miyamoto replies that she got it for 50% off in Akihabara. She then tries to get the report back on track by explaining that the mic was set up in the amazon to capture the sounds of the pokemon in the area in hopes of being able to identify and locate any legendary pokemon who may be around. She then states that using this highly sensitive mic (which the female boss argues they should have gotten for 60% off instead), they were actually able to capture said pokemon.

This means that they weren't specifically looking for Mew and they probably weren't aware of its legend to begin with. Now, you could argue that they should have been looking for legendaries closer to home, but if they had no knowledge of the legends, it's completely understandable that they would look for exotic life in a faraway place.

Also, Miyamoto was looking for Mew itself. Team Rocket found the fossil many years later, and obviously the initial report justified the search in that specific place.

That sounds like an incredibly early time to already be on the finishing stages of the movie!

I meant the finishing stages of the script. Maybe someone else can provide proof of that being the case, but I recall reading it somewhere and it certainly makes sense. Seven months is not a long time in terms of production.

 

[garrison-san]

I understand that not everyone's happy with the decisions that have been made for this film, but, having said that, this was never intended to be a thread in which to rant and bicker for pages and pages about your personal grievances with the mere concept of there being a second Mewtwo. It's a REVIEW thread (or, at least, that's what it was intended to be), and the whole idea of a review thread is to discuss the actual product itself. Only a small minority of this forum will actually get to see the film during its initial Japanese release, of course, but that does not change the fact that discussion still has to pertain clearly to the film and to its contents. Frankly, this thread has long degenerated into an all-out debate about whether adding a second Mewtwo is palatable to one's personal view of the pokemon universe - the movie itself, and all the things that actually go on within it, have been pushed all the way to the back. This isn't a review thread any more.

Hence, I'm doing the humane thing and putting this poor, derailed thread out of its misery. A second review thread will follow shortly, though anyone who treats it as yet another opportunity to get on their soapbox about how they feel about the new Mewtwo without actually having anything to say about the movie itself will find themselves swiftly banned. Either start a new discussion thread or, if it's basically just a personal rant, take it to the blogs.

Anyone who may have posted a legitimate review in this thread will be welcome to repost it there.