Favorite Pokemon season

[Hellion]

To some people quality is what matters over quantity,.

Yes, like the quality of the writing that's been getting better as the series progressed

and while newer regions has their share of anime only things,its undeniable that older seasons were sticking less with games

Except for Orange Islands, the anime pretty much stuck with the game format, i.e. Ash does Gyms, Ash defeats regional vilain team, Ash goes to league...

In the games, there's no rivalry like that of Ash and Paul, there's no pokemon ping pong, no contest circuits, the Main girl didn't challenge a gym leader or an Elite 4 member, etc. Sinnoh has strayed from the games plenty of times to reduce the number of Johto-like filler episodes and build stronger storylines.

aswell providing two subplots with Misty being involved with two gl(Danny and Rudy).Not to mention to most people fillers,and league itself were unpredictable liking this change of routine

So, your argument is "It's only good and unpredictable if Misty's in it..." I smell bias, a lot of bias. The Orange Island were good and unpredictable, they're actually my favourite part of the original series...

True most of gym bages in Kanto Ash won under unusual circumstances but thats exactly why people liked this.

Understatement of the century. And for your info, even to fans of the Original series (which I am by the way, I'm not saying it's crap, it's what got me hooked, but still there was a lot of imperfections when I look back on them now.) those "gym battles" (if they can truly be called that) were one of the weaker points of the Kanto Saga.

People have different tastes and there is nothing wrong with them prefering older seasoins over new ones.

There's definitely nothing wrong to them preferring the older seasons to the newer ones. When I first quoted your post, I didn't talk about your "subjective" arguments, meaning the ones that rely solely upon your personnal preferences, cause that you can't really debate. But when you say, the new sagas are too predictable cause Ash always battles for his badges now and they follow the games too closely. Well, that's more of an objective arguments cause you can compare game storyline with anime storyline, while it's true that more and more the gym battles follow the games, the the rest of the episodes stray from game storyline a lot and introduce things to the anime that aren't part of the game like Tag Team Tournament, like Pokeringer, like Pokemon Orienteering, like Pokemon Cosplay, like Pokemon Ping Pong, etc.

But I agree with the above poster, every region has its good points and its low points, there's no real clear "better region or saga"

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

In the games, there's no rivalry like that of Ash and Paul,

How about HG/SS/G/S/C player character and HG/SS/G/S/C rival?

 

[pokemon fan 132]

and the devolution of Misty and Brock.

As characters they didnt devolved in any way with them being moreor less the same being funny,having share of good battles and moments.Lack of enough developoment,not focusing enough on their storylines is another thing being mainly result of riters unexperience not knowing how to handle some things right.

Yes, like the quality of the writing that's been getting better as the series progressed

In some areas,not all.There is reason why some people prefer older compared to new series due to lack of humpor,lack of proper interaction between members of main cast(Brock and Dawn in comparison feel more like strangers than friends),aswell storyling sticking with games too much nowdays.

Sinnoh has strayed from the games plenty of times to reduce the number of Johto-like filler episodes and build stronger storylines.

Older seasons had strong storylines too,and while Sinnoh is straying to an extent from games its still alot less when its taken into account how things worked back in older days.

So, your argument is "It's only good and unpredictable if Misty's in it..." I smell bias, a lot of bias.

What does Misty have to do with this?Her role in said episodes was mentioned as being one of things contributed to said subplots unpredictabillity,but i also meant how those battles for badge in OI were something completely new organizing pokemon races,practice of shooting,combination of dancing and tehnicques making it different than usual gym battles.

Understatement of the century. And for your info, even to fans of the Original series (which I am by the way, I'm not saying it's crap, it's what got me hooked, but still there was a lot of imperfections when I look back on them now.) those "gym battles" (if they can truly be called that) were one of the weaker points of the Kanto Saga.

Not to everyone,and those who do complain still liked those gym battles,and mini storylines liking their concept.

But when you say, the new sagas are too predictable cause Ash always battles for his badges now and they follow the games too closely. Well, that's more of an objective arguments cause you can compare game storyline with anime storyline, "

And my point stands.Compared to older seasons Sinnoh is following games alot closer than it used to be case before,following route of plot which is present in games,introducing more characters from games,introducing more areas which are coming from games etc.

Under unpredictabillity of Sinnoh in my earlier post i meant return of some old characters which werent expected to be seen again(like return of Gary,Jessibelle etc),Ash getting for first time dragon type,his whole team having more evolutions etc.

 

[Hellion]

,following route of plot which is present in games,introducing more characters from games,introducing more areas which are coming from games etc.

And that's a bad thing how ??? Oh wait according to you it's not since you listed this as one of the reasons Sinnoh was good.

gym leaders being properly introduced,whole E4 being showcased for first time etc.

I mean, I don't get your point here. The gym leaders have always been part of the series, so have been members of the Elite 4 (bruno in Kanto, Lorelei in OI, Lance in Johto) so it's not like the Original series was SO ORIGINAL (except for Orange Islands, which was a filler saga). I mean, important game characters that well defined are replacing the generic COTD that plagued the Johto filler and you're complaining! I don't get this at all... Like, it's pokemon, it means Pokemon battles, Ash is a pokemon trainer wanting to become a pokemon master, that means battles... If Ash was a wannabe firefighter, I would gladly concede that saving a Gloom from a fire was an interesting plotline, but he's a trainer. If he was a wannabe comedian, I would gladly concede that using a Haunter to make someone laugh is a good storyline, but HE'S A TRAINER... You're basically saying "I hate the show now cause Ash actually has to use his pokemon to battle".

Look at your argument, you listed as one of the reasons why the original series was good was

having many unique arcs not sticking with games so close like its case now in DP.Like whole St.Anne thing fom Kanto,different kind of gyms in OI,Whirl Cup(it wasnt from games),

St Anne is a game location that has been adapted by the anime into something different than what it is in the games, you know like... The Galactic arc, Pokethlon, Contests, Battle Frontier... All of them adapted while not following game mechanics and simply being an inspiration to the anime writers.

Whirl Cup was one of the very few good parts of Johto, but if you're looking for competitions that aren't from the games... Pokeringer, Pokemon orienteering, Pokemon Triathlon, the Hearthome Tag team tournament, Pokemon Cosplay, the Twinleaf festival, Summer school arc, again the list of anime specific things introduced in DP goes on. Cause the writers have always done that throughout all of the series.

Her role in said episodes was mentioned as being one of things contributed to said subplots unpredictabillity

If that logic is true, then you must also find the fact that Dawn challenged a gym leader as unpredictable and interesting...

Look, you sound like you're trying to hate Dp for the sake of hating it (probably has a lot to do with the fact that a certain character wasn't shown in it...) but at least be objective and fair in your arguments... You're contradicting yourself a lot here.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

And that's a bad thing how ??? Oh wait according to you it's not since you listed this as one of the reasons Sinnoh was good.

No its not a bad thing at all,but it takes away from things being little different than its case with games providing to audience sense of not knowing what to expect.

There are people who prefer more when anime goes more of route not going with games too closely.

I mean, I don't get your point here. The gym leaders have always been part of the series, so have been members of the Elite 4 (bruno in Kanto, Lorelei in OI, Lance in Johto) so it's not like the Original series was SO ORIGINAL (except for Orange Islands, which was a filler saga). I mean, important game characters that well defined are replacing the generic COTD that plagued the Johto filler and you're complaining! I don't get this at all... Like, it's pokemon, it means Pokemon battles, Ash is a pokemon trainer wanting to become a pokemon master, that means battles... If Ash was a wannabe firefighter, I would gladly concede that saving a Gloom from a fire was an interesting plotline, but he's a trainer. If he was a wannabe comedian, I would gladly concede that using a Haunter to make someone laugh is a good storyline, but HE'S A TRAINER... You're basically saying "I hate the show now cause Ash actually has to use his pokemon to battle".

Listed examples are one of reasons why people find way in which Ash got to aquired badges being unique and interesting.True he didnt won badges from Erica or Sabrina by fighting but whole story behind geting them was done in quality way.Like group heading to Lavender to catch ghost type since at that time psychic types were portrayed as being very hard to deal with while using other types,or Ash saving Gloom from gym in fire showing how there is more than one way to win a badge.

Back than Ash was still newbie,and im glad that whole conceot was done in unusual way.

You dont need to like it,but some people really enjoyed in this.

St Anne is a game location that has been adapted by the anime into something different than what it is in the games, you know like... The Galactic arc, Pokethlon, Contests, Battle Frontier... All of them adapted while not following game mechanics and simply being an inspiration to the anime writers.

Exactly St.Anne arc was modified being different,and followed on with group ending on desrt island with giant pokemon.

Sinnoh had its arcs,but to this day many people are finding St.Anne arc one of Kanto highlights and best arcs ever,prefering it over most arcs provided in later regions.

Whirl Cup was one of the very few good parts of Johto, but if you're looking for competitions that aren't from the games... Pokeringer, Pokemon orienteering, Pokemon Triathlon, the Hearthome Tag team tournament, Pokemon Cosplay, the Twinleaf festival, Summer school arc, again the list of anime specific things introduced in DP goes on. Cause the writers have always done that throughout all of the series.

Just like original had:Seaking catching contest,tournament for grass types,races with pokemon like one which Ash won with Rapidash or later one with Bayleef,Breeding contest which Brock entered with Suzie,competition from episode "Ultimate Test" etc,etc.

As i said DP has been introduced anime only things,but if you want to compare original with nowdays series list of anime only things is bigger.

If that logic is true, then you must also find the fact that Dawn challenged a gym leader as unpredictable and interesting...

And it could be said it was,but im not sure whats the point of this.

Look, you sound like you're trying to hate Dp for the sake of hating it

What are you talking about?When did i showed in any way that i hate DP???Im just stating reasons why me and other people prefer original series compared to new ones.
I like DP,but i prefer older seasons more.Geez your making it like this is crime or something.

You're contradicting yourself a lot here.

You sure?So far i didnt contradicted myself at all,its more the case that you annotated some things i wrote in wrong way.

Im not sure whats the point of this discussion?
Its a well known thing that DP is following games more than original series,with people listing reasons why they prefer them over new ones.

 

[Duckgon Z]

As characters they didnt devolved in any way with them being moreor less the same being funny,having share of good battles and moments.Lack of enough developoment,not focusing enough on their storylines is another thing being mainly result of riters unexperience not knowing how to handle some things right.

I guess that's what I meant. They fell by the wayside for the most part. Besides the Whirl Cup and the odd episode here or there devoted to them or their Pokemon, Brock went down a slippery slope he's never recovered from. And Misty was about as dull as Kenny and Zoey are now, friendly friend friends and calm mother are about the same in my book: Not compelling characters or TV for the most part.

But again, that's just me. Some people like Kenny and Zoey, some liked Misty in Johto, some liked one region/saga more than others. To me they're all sort of the same with good and bad in their own way.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

And Misty was about as dull as Kenny and Zoey are now, friendly friend friends and calm mother are about the same in my book:

Well thats your opinion.However Misty is definitely more complex having going more for her than its case with Zoey or Kenn,being more interesting.

Talking about Mistys personality in Johto from what i noticed she was fine as character still being funny,witty,hothead just with less fire not showing temper so often like she used to(contrary to some belief she still had alot of life in her,shining when getting a chance).She had some achievements in Johto too(like Seaking Contest,Whirl Cup,helping nurse Joy over her fear etc).It just happens writers were unexperienced at that time not knowing how to handl some things right,not fousing enough on her.However its noticeable that she was treated better than Brock did durng that region.
Most of complaints i encountered from people were coming from her not doing enough with iutself pulling not interacting much with others,battling etc.However as far as persona goes theyvfinded her interesting,liking episodes where she did something.Some o them lik "Totodile Duel","Hook,LIne and Stinker",Whirl arc,"Some like It Hot" are one of best episodes focusing onher showing how good she is.

But to each their own i guess.

Later on as we get to see in cameos and hosos after departure Misty is now more selfconfidend in herself,being more responsible.Of course main traits about her were kept being hothead,sarcastic,having fear from bugs,being funny etc,aswell erupting when provoked enough its just she is more grown up girl at this point and time(just like its case with ASh,May etc).This means she developed as character which is good thing giving her more depth making her morerealistic and enjoyable to watch.

.l

 

[Hellion]

What are you talking about?When did i showed in any way that i hate DP???Im just stating reasons why me and other people prefer original series compared to new ones. I like DP,but i prefer older seasons more.Geez your making it like this is crime or something

It's not a crime to prefer older seasons, but you're listing things that made you like the older seasons more and you're acting like they're specific to that series... I'm only saying they're not.

Exemple 1: You're using the Whirl Cup as an example that the anime invented something that wasn't in the game. I'm saying that's true, they did that a lot in the original series, but they also did that a lot in AG and in DP (especially hear as the lack of filler can testify), pointing out that your argument doesn't apply to one region solely, but to all regions.

Example 2 : You're using the fact that Misty was involved in the storyline of two Gym battles in the Orange Islands in pointing out that the anime was more unpredictable then. But, when it comes to pointing out that May was also involved in the Petalburg Gym storyline, that Paul was involved in the Oreburgh gym storyline or how Dawn took a huge part in the Veilstone gym stroyline, you're mysteriously silent.

I'm not saying Don't like the original series (cause I love it despite its flaws, as I love AG and DP), I'm saying be fairer when you compare the two and realize that some of your arguments apply to all series, not just to the original.

You sure?So far i didnt contradicted myself at all,its more the case that you annotated some things i wrote in wrong way.

It's called a quote, I quote your words that you've written. If you say something in a post then say the opposite in the next, it's on you.

Its my opinion that DP is following games more than original series,with 2 people listing this debatable idea as one of the reasons why they prefer them over new ones

Fixed . Just cause you think it does not make it a universal fact.

 

[Izumoshep]

I personally enjoyed the First season but I didn't like the Orange Islands because of Tracey. But my favorite season or series would have to be the current one, D/P.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

It's not a crime to prefer older seasons, but you're listing things that made you like the older seasons more and you're acting like they're specific to that series... I'm only saying they're not.

I cant recall that i tyed those events specifically to older seasons.I just said older seasons were going more off game route.

Exemple 1: You're using the Whirl Cup as an example that the anime invented something that wasn't in the game. I'm saying that's true, they did that a lot in the original series, but they also did that in AG and in DP, pointing out that your argument doesn't apply to one region solely, but to all regions.

And if you readed my post you would notice how i confirmed how it appplies to all regions,it just happens original series taking into account whole Kanto,OI and Johto was sticking less with games.

Not sure what is to debate here,since its true.

Example 2 : You're using the fact that Misty was involved in the storyline of two Gym battles in the Orange Islands in pointing out that the anime was more unpredictable then.

You missed the pooint here.
Again she was just brought up as one of components being meritorious for adding to unexpected twists.

Other factors were gyms being done in different way not eing involved with usual battling style(like races fot example).Those kind of things werent present in new regions.

I'm saying be fairer when you compare the two and realize that some of your arguments apply to all series, not just to the original.

I never denyed that,talking about something else.

Fixed . Just cause you think it does not make it a universal fact.

Eh,good debater doesnt resort to changing people posts.Judging by poll results its definitely more than 2 people prefering older seasons over new ones,with many people which i finded online or in real life sharing same opinion.

Also ask anyone and they will tell you how DP compared to original series is following games more.Thats not even opinion,but fact.

Seriously,when we take into account in what way some gym were done in Kanto,whole OI saga being nime only,aswell taking into account arcs from all 5 seasons and different storyline being followed math is quite simple resulting in Older series sticking less with games which equals being less predictable.

 

[Hellion]

I cant recall that i tyed those events specifically to older seasons.I just said older seasons were going more off game route.

Here, I'll show you...

this show wasnt following games so much like its case(in these days you dont see whle sagas coming out from only writers imagination or anime made arcs like St.Anne, gym leaders who doesnt battle, Whirl Cup etc)now adding more to this anime unpredictabillity not expecting what to happen,etc.

Now those are your words...

Whole saga coming out only of the writers imagination... Battle frontier is the clearest example. While the Frontier Brains were game characters, the way the facilities worked was totally different from the games and the battles were different (unpredictable) from regular gyms cause you couldn't predict which pokemon Ash would choose what rules would apply

Arcs like St. Anne and Whirl Cup are also present in AG and DP as I've listed them before... If you could predict POkeringer and Pokemon orienteering in AG or the Hearthome Tag team competition, the Twinleaf Festival, the Wallace Cup, the Pokemon Summer school arc (including the pokemon triathlon), the Iron Island arc (exclusive to the anime)... well good on you cause they shocked the hell out of me...

And if you readed my post you would notice how i confirmed how it appplies to all regions,it just happens original series taking into account whole Kanto,OI and Johto was sticking less with games.

Johto follows the order of the gyms in the games, follows pretty much the games storyline except for the rivalry with Silver... OI didn't have game counterpart, but neither did the Battle Frontier (totally different from the anime)

You missed the pooint here.
Again she was just brought up as one of components being meritorious for adding to unexpected twists.

Yes, but then you need to point out that other characters (like rivals and the other main girls have also filled that role, even more extensively than Misty did.)

Other factors were gyms being done in different way not eing involved with usual battling style(like races fot example).Those kind of things werent present in new regions.

I'll give you that, they only did races in two gym, both of them were on the Orange Islands... That being said, Ash is a pokemon trainer, not a pokemon racer. Races make for nice filler episodes, like the ponyta one, the bayleaf one or the pokemon triathlon (see what I did, more than one region referenced) but gym battles are an integral part of the show...

Eh,good debater doesnt resort to changing people posts.Judging by poll results its definitely more than 2 people prefering older seasons over new ones,with many people which i finded online or in real life sharing same opinion.

Poll results indicate that more people prefered Original... Or, as it is my case, typed all three choices. but it doesn't indicate why, so using the post results as a clear shot way to prove that people support your arguments in that DP follows the games less than Kanto or Johto is fallacious (a good debater knows that)

Also ask anyone and they will tell you how DP compared to original series is following games more.Thats not even opinion,but fact.

All I have to say is your opinions don't equate universal facts. If you have an opinion, prove your point by defending it, not by flat out saying it's a fact and everybody thinks like you...

I give up, it's like talking to a brick wall, I'm done with this argument.

 

[Drakon]

I liked the first series because Team Rocket actually posed a threat. And the interaction between Ash, Misty and Brock is something that I really have not see replicated.

Not to mention there were some truly kickass episodes in that series.

 

[Trevenant]

I liked the first series because Team Rocket actually posed a threat.

Since when? The only time the JJM trio were even a threat were the first, like, two episodes. And the rest of Team Rocket showed up once in a blue moon and failed as epically as JJM. If fact, there are like two times I can remember them doing okay - with Mewtoo, though that totally bit them in the ass, and with capturing the Red Gyarados, which was also not very successful to say the least.

 

[Lysandre]

Since when? The only time the JJM trio were even a threat were the first, like, two episodes. And the rest of Team Rocket showed up once in a blue moon and failed as epically as JJM. If fact, there are like two times I can remember them doing okay - with Mewtoo, though that totally bit them in the ass, and with capturing the Red Gyarados, which was also not very successful to say the least.

Team Rocket, or at least Giovanni's motives as a whole, were extremely important with the first season through the first movie. Unlike every movie afterward, the first movie actually resolved the main plot instead of starting and closing a separate story. This is likely due to the fact the series was supposed to only last one season, though.

If Team Rocket had continued the way they did through the first season or the Adventures manga it would have been much more interesting. But, as it is, they've basically just followed Ash for his one Pikachu while failing miserable for the past seven seasons (except for the Red Gyarados thing), and Giovanni has been there for the sole purpose of letting Meowth show his bug-Pokemon-rape fantasies. Or at least that's my impression.

 

[Andyman]

Team Rocket (NOT JJM) was somewhat successful in the original series... only to end up being unsuccessful in the long run. Battle for Lugia, anyone? They succeeded in capturing the beast... but not taming it. Lugia's attacks proceeded to blow the hideout to smithereens and kill several grunts in the process.

Team Rocket's megalomaniacal style is what screwed them over - they got too arrogant and things ended up failing epically. Partially because the twerps showed up. Same goes for the Aquas, Magmas, and Galacticas.

JJM were only a threat when they attacked the Pokemon Center. Ever since then, they've been nothing more than fodderific villains, though they weren't overdone and annoying in the original series. Plus, they didn't spend money like mad back then. Now... they need to go.

Part of the reason why I like the original series so much is because it was the first one... and a lot of the gimmicks and characters that were awesome back then are not awesome now. Plus, a lot of the battles in Johto were just plain epic. Just wish that Kanto's gym leaders hadn't been so easy with their badges - Ash only legitimately beat Surge, Koga, and Blaine.

I wonder if DP would have been my favorite if it were the first series...

 

[double trouble!]

You want Team Rocket out? I'd quit watching the show.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Whole saga coming out only of the writers imagination... Battle frontier is the clearest example.While the Frontier Brains were game characters, the way the facilities worked was totally different from the games

There is your difference,.In Orange Islands gym leaders or champion for that matter werent coming from games,including fillers.
Compared to it BF was following games,simple as that.

Also to point out gyms were different from usual battling routine,while in BF battles were pretty much similar to gym ones.

Arcs like St. Anne and Whirl Cup are also present in AG and DP as I've listed them before... If you could predict POkeringer and Pokemon orienteering in AG or the Hearthome Tag team competition, the Twinleaf Festival, the Wallace Cup, the Pokemon Summer school arc (including the pokemon triathlon), the Iron Island arc (exclusive to the anime)... well good on you cause they shocked the hell out of me...

Are you purposely missing what i wrote?For last time im not denying how DP had unpredictable events,but when comparing with original sries its evidental how number of them is smaller,with some not bing so epic.

When was the last time that Ash won badge without battling,or for that matter because of gym leaders being created mini stories like its case with Sabrina?Nevertheless there are whole arcs,areas which werent coming from games etc which in end provides more than new regions did when talking about anime only things.

Yes, but then you need to point out that other characters (like rivals and the other main girls have also filled that role, even more extensively than Misty did.)

Some did,some were involved to lesser extent than she did.
Misty was just brought up as example regarding gym challenge unpredictabillity,nothing more.Im not sure why your clinging so much on this point,especially when i already said how this was case with some other characters too(though theur involvement was different than hers being more oriented toward romance showing interest in them).

I'll give you that, they only did races in two gym, both of them were on the Orange Islands...

Than theres the whole shooting practice from first gym,making slades with help of pokemon in second and implementing dance with pokemon techniques in third.

That being said, Ash is a pokemon trainer, not a pokemon racer.

Yes but people liked seeing for a change something else than usual gym battles.

Poll results indicate that more people prefered Original... Or, as it is my case, typed all three choices. but it doesn't indicate why, so using the post results as a clear shot way to prove that people support your arguments in that DP follows the games less than Kanto or Johto is fallacious (a good debater knows that)

Again not reading through whole posts.I also indicated how all over the net,on various pokemon websites or media ones(since its against the rules i wont mention which ones),i mostly encounter people talking about older seasons being highlight of this show.Same case is in real life,from my experience.

All I have to say is your opinions don't equate universal facts. If you have an opinion, prove your point by defending it, not by flat out saying it's a fact and everybody thinks like you...

Whole series are proof.When was the last time you watched Original series?
Now if you go by each season comparing number of anime only events with other ones,you would notice how number in older ones surpasses new ones.

I give up, it's like talking to a brick wall, I'm done with this argument.

Same can be said about you.

 

[Fatima Shadow Frost Witch]

Original Series (Kanto, Orange Islands, Johto)

^this is all that I'm saying about it

 

[Pidgeot]

I actually like the DP Series.