Mafia Fire in the Garden: Kanto Starters Mafia: Endgame, Bulbasaur Victory

[Zexy]

I know I have been jumpy too, this has not been one of my best games, I am taking a while to get back to used to playing, but my jumpiness is like... more uniform and early phase

Piko jumpiness started low and keeps ramping up the more desperate he gets, it is a whole other kind of jumpy

 

[LICH KING]

You know what, I suggest we make Mint Elv and Snowy the major wagons for today.
If Snowy flips mafia, feel free to mislynch me next, I will show no objections.

Summing it up because my post style might be overwhelming for some players
Townier
Jamie (unless Raven is scum)
Snowy (unless both Piko/Mido are town and Caps is scum)

Man you contradict yourself, why do you want to vote Snowy when you think he is a Townie?
Or did he become a Townie just because he subbed out?

Vote: Zexy.

 

[LICH KING]

Just realizing that this was posted! Look Piko, LICH KING did mention the kill on dawn dusk. Even gave a little analysis too.

Taking the post out of context and Zexy liking the post, pretty much sums it all.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Man you contradict yourself, why do you want to vote Snowy when you think he is a Townie?
Or did he become a Townie just because he subbed out?

Vote: Zexy.

For someone who tries to call me out for taking posts out of context, this argument is completely out of context. Those posts were made HALF A GOD DAMN DAY APART. Guess what? Reads can change.

I’m sorry to be a little harsh - i know you’re a new player, and i’m glad you’re playing here on Bulba in a game. Genuinely, I’m serious. Also I take social deduction maybe a little too seriously sometimes, that’s just how I am. But yknow what I’m getting kinda tilted that you have been tunneled in on the same two reads on the same two players this whole game and refuse to acknowledge literally anyone or anything else.

It seems like you have some mafia experience though (I mean I wouldn’t know for sure because you’ve ignored like the three times people have asked you about that) so i’m gonna be frank with you. If you are town, PLEASE get your head out of your ass and do the following

• Use quotes from Zexy’s posts to show me his progression (or lack thereof) on his read from snowy scum/good lynch -> snowy town/not a good lynch. Maybe you are right - there is none! Great. Show it. Put in the work.
• Explain your read on Pikochu, what you think his alignment might be and why, and why you think Zexy is a better lynch today than Pikochu.

Let me make it clear: I CAN SEE WORLDS WHERE ZEXY IS SCUM. I have been wary as fuck of him all game and have called him out several, several times. I do not like his endless likes as they feel like pocketing (I know Zexy well, and know this is truly NAI, but it still FEELS that way to me). I do not like the way he tried to apply “pressure” earlier this phase. I do not like that he just straight up abandoned his case on LICH KING earlier this phase. And I very VERY much do not like that, after all of this, he joins the wagon I start, relatively middle of the phase, once again. No matter how much I believe in my case it still gives me some piece of doubt that he knows I’m a townie who knows absolutely nothing and he is stringing me along so he can chop me tomorrow.

But you know what? I don’t care. Because guess what? At this point people have put their tunnel blinders on and have associated scum!me with a town piko flip (reasonable) and a scum Zexy flip (incredibly unreasonable and I have explained why). So now in 50% of outcomes I will have to defend myself anyway.

 

[Midorikawa]

I'm really not liking that you are non-commiting to a wagon and I'm suspecting you're trying to either pin this mainly on me and/or Caps. You have been pushing pretty hard for a wagon on A/B, and then when you are being prodded you withdraw. Then you decided to ask Caps about Caps/Piko That reeks you and Caps being potential scum buddies trying to score a mislynch on me.

Funny how I’ve been saying this stuff and pointed it out. How about looking at my case I originally built on him that no one has properly looked at because he’s trying to make it seem like my case is built around him and snowy when you can erase anything snowy related and my case is still there.

This probably gonna look like an OMGUS; these posts raised serious red flags that I'm willing raise a Zexy/Caps wagon. I'm not just not seeing how Zexy is putting Caps as a lower priority target. I'm also not seeing much alternative wagons not involving I think these two are having the game focus too much on WIFOM on finding scum. Kinda makes me think that Zexy and Caps are potential scumbuddies trying to focus solely finding mafia and not figuring out who may be town also.

Why would it be OMGUS? It would only be that if you called him scummy for voting you. If you present a proper case with proper evidence it’s just scumhunting.

Push the exact same agenda just shuffled around. Like 90% sure one of them will have to copy the other's vote before day end, no matter where it finally lies.

What exact same agenda? Read my posts. I have pointed out your inconsistencies and say one pointed out how the wagon was a mislynch waiting to happen and the horrible logic I’ve been seeing.

Also just making something else clear before Mido jumps on me even more.

I am not saying that the way Mido presents arguments is sus, the only sus things about her are pushing me (but I avoid revenge voting based only on things like that) and indirectly agreeing with sus Piko on pretty much everything, a 3/3 exact match IS sus!

I would not advocate for a Mido vote first, that is only to be reserved (and top priority) if and only if Piko actually flips scum.

Pushing you is sus? What? There is absolutely nothing that indicates you as town. It’s called scumhunting. Don’t complain and try to lie because you’re my chosen target with my limited time.

Piko (if scum, then Mido, if town, then Caps)
LICH (if town, then Caps)
Mido (if Piko scum)
Caps (if Piko or LICH town)
Raven (if all the above are town and I have that much of a skill issue)

Jamie (unless Raven is scum)

Snowy (unless both Piko/Mido are town and Caps is scum)

Why is so much of it dependent on other players alignments? You really like ignoring that day one lync don’t you and your filth logic in it.

So, Piko... you seem to care more about me admitting if Jamie town lean is because of the visit than actually using it as a case against me, don't you? Sorry to break it to you but I will not fall for that.

…What? Why do you keep ignoring peoples points and just picking and choosing the weakest ones to try to make our cases seem like they have nothing to them when they have more than anything you have presented.

you really are town, please do not let him use you. He is parroting all 3 reads of yours and making this a 2-2 with his plan B being that he flips scum and we throw shade at you next for being too much like him. If you really are town, make it 1-3, and if he flips town feel free to HAMMER ME hard next day. If you do not do this, Piko flips, and I die, everyone will assume you are scum too, you do not want that now do you?

Who the heck is using me? Are you kidding me? Stop blatantly lying and misconstruing posts.

Early on, uses Raven's idea on voting either wissen or jaison to vote wissen. WIFOM here, either wissen is his buddy and he wanted him saved, or he hoped we would target wissen after his flip for this as a Plan B

And you and half the thread didn’t?

Overall not contributing much else d1 despite seeming active

Half the thread wasn’t.

Could have decided to make the scum kill on dawn dusk based on info from wissen, in fact he had the potential to set this up as much as Caps

WIFOM. This is conjecture again.

Makes a somewhat sloppy case on Snowy

Quote it and prove it’s sloppy.

Sees Caps trying to push a case on him.

So what? Should he ignore it?

Sees Mido trying to theorize I am buddies with Snowy, considers it quite convenient, after this he does start to throw shade on me. Tries to make his reads align as much with Mido as possible, against Caps Snowy and I

Conjecture and again ignores our actual content.

Also sees Caps saying he believes both Mido and I are town despite his best efforts to keep equal distance between us and hoping we get on each other's throats more, is forced to take a stance

BS. What neutral stance. Caps has been your little buddy.

Says he would not OMGUS me but then does it. Only after Caps points more flaws in his arguments, I point the similarities with Mido, he gets more desperate. I believe his original plan was to start shading me based on what Mido said but not actually vote for me this phase, but catching him and pressuring him made him haste it up.

More baseless conjecture. And it’s not OMGUS. He actually gave reasons, you’re just twisting them.

Tries too hard to fish out who my visitor is, first by making it a bigger deal than it is when it comes to his read, then trying to find out if it is Jamie (it is not).

Quotes. You’re trying to convince people to follow you but you don’t provide the quotes in a easy to read format.

I know I have been jumpy too, this has not been one of my best games, I am taking a while to get back to used to playing, but my jumpiness is like... more uniform and early phase

Piko jumpiness started low and keeps ramping up the more desperate he gets, it is a whole other kind of jumpy

…what? Also this is pikos first game back too. This is just an invalid excuse.

Man you contradict yourself, why do you want to vote Snowy when you think he is a Townie?
Or did he become a Townie just because he subbed out?

Vote: Zexy.

Literally what I have been saying the whole day phase.

@TheCapsFan @RavenRaziel98 @Pikochu I would like for you guys to actually look at my post with my case on Zexy and respond to it because none of you have even actually acknowledged anything I’ve been saying while buying the BS Zexy has been vomiting.

@Elieson Dude where you at?

 

[DawningWinds]

@Minish is subbing for Snowy. Please confirm once you receive your role.

 

[Midorikawa]

Also for the record I have not quoted anything from the previous day phase. All quotes are strictly from this phase.

 

[TheCapsFan]

@TheCapsFan @RavenRaziel98 @Pikochu I would like for you guys to actually look at my post with my case on Zexy and respond to it because none of you have even actually acknowledged anything I’ve been saying while buying the BS Zexy has been vomiting.

Nah. Maybe when you acknowledge my case that I made completely independently of Zexy that you’ve been ignoring for 24 hours because it’s more convenient to your argument to call me “Zexy’s little buddy.” When it’s really Zexy who’s been following me all game.

 

[DawningWinds]

@Minish is subbing for Snowy. Please confirm once you receive your role.

In order to allow Minish and Elieson time to catch up, I am willing to extend this phase by 24 hours, if other players are okay with that. If this is to occur, Day Two would end at 4 PM CDT on June 10.

 

[TheCapsFan]

I am okay with a phase extension.

 

[Midorikawa]

Nah. Maybe when you acknowledge my case that I made completely independently of Zexy that you’ve been ignoring for 24 hours because it’s more convenient to your argument to call me “Zexy’s little buddy.” When it’s really Zexy who’s been following me all game.

Point me to the post.

Also I legit forgot Exlight is in the game.

But I have limited time. I’m going to be trying to ISo people. But we hired two new people at work so I have to concentrate on training them at work.

And then my cyborg mother is guilt tripping me into cleaning this weekend, and my champions game starts Monday. So I make no promises in more than what I notice as I read during catch up. But point me to specific posts and I’ll respond accordingly.

Also vote phase extension.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Point me to the post.

Also I legit forgot Exlight is in the game.

But I have limited time. I’m going to be trying to ISo people. But we hired two new people at work so I have to concentrate on training them at work.

And then my cyborg mother is guilt tripping me into cleaning this weekend, and my champions game starts Monday. So I make no promises in more than what I notice as I read during catch up. But point me to specific posts and I’ll respond accordingly.

Also vote phase extension.

Post 1
Piko’s response 1
Piko’s response 2
My response 1
My response 2

I think Piko has posted since then but i don’t think he responded to me at all.

And yes, i will look at your case on Zexy, part of why i voted for phase change. I have a busy day today though so it may have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[ExLight]

Vote Phase Extension

 

[Zexy]

Please extend the phase.

Will try to reply to the above as soon as possible.

 

[ExLight]

Tell me how this is basically not parroting? That's where I thought this was basically essentially a parrot on Snowy's part.

I agree, that Snowy post is very much parroting lol
To be fair Snowy parrots often regardless of alignment, hopefully Minish has something more to add maybe.

WIFOM but...Bro I would have just killed you or Mido. Specifically you probably. Removing the most active player from a game that's already incredibly inactive could have let me control the narrative as the second most active person by posts.

smh the strategy of the WEAK

Since when is 1 vote any pressure? I also don’t like that “maybe later in the phase” and the fear of having more than one vote on snowy. As though you’re confident he’ll be lynched.

I agree with this looking bad, it pinged me a bit when I read it too but I thought I was overthinking it

So your entire case is that I might be buddies with Snowy? Why not vote for Snowy then instead? He has more votes than me, could be an easier case for you to push.

Yeah, now that we know jaison flipped town, wissen was a troll. Before the flip there was no way to know if it was troll or scum slip.

Simply because Snowy is less likely to respond and entertain a fruitful discussion than you, I'd assume.
I'm a bit confused about the usage of the word troll here. Do you think they're scum or not?

….what? Why the inactives? How does that help?

I don't like inactives crippling a game, regardless of my alignment.

If you know he’s being a hypocrite then why not vote him with me?

Honestly? I might, ngl
I'm still waiting for me to notice a major red flag, but I admit it's a bit hard since I have 0 experience playing with him

Thing is your kind of activity is a bit... Passive. You talk a lot, mostly about setup, but avoid making the hard decisions when it comes to voting. Which is slightly sus.

Honestly? yea I could be more committing to voting but I haven't found a very comfortable place to sit on yet
currently rereading the events of D1 to see if I can find something to set my mind on

Coz according to your hypothesis, Wissen is a scum who outed his scum buddy...

thisssssssssss

That hypothesis is now wrong
Jaison was not scum
Please stop using this argument, it just does not hold anymore as a reason for wissen to be more scum than anyone else

I'm unsure as to how this changes the fact wissen was and still is more likely to be scum
I legit don't understand why Zexy is so vehemently defending this slot, and if Zexy or Wissen (Ellieson) flips mafia I'll definitely be vocal about lynching the other

 

[Elieson]

So, I may have simply forgotten that I subbed into this game.


Playing catch-up in about one hour.

 

[ExLight]

Even if wissen is town/indep though, I am not a fan of jaison's generalised lackluster arguments anyway, and genuinely believe their flip will help us get reads on lots of people (in conjunction with who the mafia chooses to kill), including Raven Mido Caps me, maybe even Piko and Lich King.

yea?
what did his lynch help get reads on those individuals? Can you elaborate?

 

[Zexy]

Quick reply to ExLight so they have something to work with for now

When I said wissen might have been a troll I meant it in a NAI way

Also jaison lynch makes Piko look much scummier (especially if Elie is also scum) and Caps just a bit more, but only really if Piko is town.

Replying to Caps/Mido is gonna take a bit longer, sorry.

 

[ExLight]

how about LICH KING, can you refresh my memory on your read on them?

 

[Midorikawa]

omg, profound. Players need to evolve in order to visit people! An incredible revelation that was definitely not at all obvious before now.

While yes a no duh post, that’s not the issue with it. It’s more disturbing that he’s so positive they’re more likely town.

We have some information, if that person who visited Zexy wants to share, but also - person who visited Zexy? You probably shouldn't share that information & should keep it to yourself."

Well the post is confusing… I reread so many times.

My bigger issue is him saying nothing more can be gained from RVS. I do remember that pinging me but can’t remember if I responded. Now I want to know why he wants to avoid talking about rvs. Anyone who wants to avoid talking about anything is an instant ping in my book.

This is a funny read. There are plenty of valid reasons to scumread me in this game - "jumping from accusation to accusation" is not one of them. I was pretty firm in my convictions yesterday and pushed lynching jaison and my theory both him and wissen were scumbuds hard. So far today I haven't accused anyone - i put out some reads earlier today, but none of them were "accusations" in the strongest sense where I felt comfortable voting. So I don't really know where this is coming from.

Agreed. And honestly jumping isn’t scummy. It’s spreading the love unless none of the jumping has substance or is just taking stuff out of context, or just lies.

How is Snowy parroting?? He found Mido's vote on Zexy to make 0 sense and then voted her. I don't think anyone's really voiced suspicion over that,

… I did. Granted it was because there was other stuff in thread that just seemed to coincidental with it. Parroting is definitely a weird choice of words though since he wasn’t sheeping or parroting or anything. He just voted me on his own. Now if there’s a deeper meaning to the vote then we’ll see later, so at a base it wasn’t suspicious. I also couldn’t care less about the vote and it was on me.

Why is it suspicious to vote last minute? Specifically, why is gentlefeather suspicious for doing this? She was trying to prevent someone from coming in at the last minute and tying the votes.

It can be suspicious depending on the reason but the reason you give here is agreed not suspicious.

Why is gentlefeather suspicious for voting last minute, but JamieIsBored isn't even given a read, despite him voting for the same player that gentlefeather tried to vote for, actually preventing a tie, and sealing jaison's fate yesterday?

Agreed

Was gentlefeather really being "swayed" by anything? They came in with confusion over the situation at the end of the day and tried to vote with the explicit reason of trying to prevent a tie.

Gentlefeather was not being swayed. Actually they had really good posts towards the end of the phase. So agreed

Why is LICH KING specifically being targeted here regarding not analyzing Zexy's claim? Plenty of players have popped in without really analyzing Zexy's claim. I wouldn't say I analyzed it. I wouldn't say Snowy analyzed it. And besides, hasn't it already been analyzed quite a bit already? I thought you didn't want people to parrot ideas

Agreed.

And - regarding the dawn dusk kill, like Zexy said, the most interesting interactions with dawn dusk happened between LICH/jaison/wissen (all of which you want to ignore since it was prior to wissen being subbed out) and between myself and dawn dusk, and LICH already scumreads me for...some reason. So how is this productive to LICH, anyway?

Agreed. Also I just want to say I think LICH is either new or their first language isn’t English. That’s the feel I get from their posts, but I do think though they post less they’re at least being straightforward with them.

So I disagree with Pikos analysis of them. They don’t seem like a mess, just struggling with language maybe.

Hoho, more incredibly profound stuff from pikochu. There is DEFINITELY one scum in half the game (oh yeah maybe a second) and there's another one in the other half that I didn't list! groundbreaking stuff, really.

I don’t count this as points against him rather as just pointless. This type of stuff has been spouted so much in this thread. Idk the point of it period at this point in the game.

And we close with a pressure vote on Snowy. I do agree that Snowy has been coasting a bit, and I'd like to see more from him, but I don't like the vote, because I don't think Pikochu's reasons for scumreading Snowy make sense. I would have preferred a vote on ExLight or Raven here, or even myself if you're going for pressure. Of the three, personally I think ExLight would be the best option for pressure at the moment, I think.

this is disagree with. For starters 1 vote isn’t really pressure but regardless I don’t see anything wrong with pressure. Even if the reasons are bad, the reactions may not be, and that can tell a lot. Though honestly a vote for just pressure at this point is pointless I think. We can start building cases.

Overall a lackluster post, with plenty of contradictions, from a pretty lackluster slot so far. It seems like Pikochu is tripping over his words a bit and his thought process doesn't make much sense.

Is Piko a mess in the post? Yes. Is he contradictory? No. But there are definitely some red flags in the post.

Also I’ll do these posts one by one because it’s easiest method for me.