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Mafia Fire in the Garden: Kanto Starters Mafia: Endgame, Bulbasaur Victory

Raven is also another I would look into, he did vote for me to hopefully get more on me but when he saw Piko is on 4-4 he took the vote back. Keeping the No Lynch would look bad on him, going Piko would look too bus, simply removing would be the best lay low option.
I don't think he breaks the tie in your favor if he's buds
If he was scumbuds he'd probably take the chance to bus piko instead of just hopping out
 
If your town then this is your absolute worst town game ever.
I just got a scum lynched (even though Caps did more), but I pushed it in a way that made him desperate post for quite a while, through which we can get future reads. What successful case have you made really?
Also why is Minish included in that? Because she voted Piko after reading the thread some? Piko went after Snowy too.
Minish is included because Snowy has a meta of subbing out when scum and Minish has a meta of bussing when scum. Also because you look bad after this lynch, and you tried to make that slot look scum only if I am scum too. Hoping that when I flip town, the case on that slot is dropped.

Caps and Raven include Minish too, why, to you, is it a problem just because I also do?
……..dude the guy just got an activity warning. You shouldn’t feel anything on him
Piko really wanted to know if Jamie is my visitor. So they his buddies kill off the power role. This makes me town lean him now.
Zexy please stop acting like a child. That’s all I’m seeing from you at this point. Honestly if you’re going to play like a child whose feelings are hirt because someone found you scummy then I absolutely will not respond to you or acknowledge your posts because it’s a distraction in the game. I will concentrate on players that aren’t acting like butthurt children. You literally cannot go a post without saying something like “watch Mido turn this into this”.
Did you not see that I was the other wagon on our first flipped scum on this game? Where were you when that happened? Voting me, instead of him, actively hindering his lynch, pushing mine instead.

...

OK, how about we do this a different way?

Do not reply to me at all, if you want to. I may also not reply to you again if you want that. But please try to make a good enough case for everyone else's sake to act on, how can I really be buddies with Piko. Do you really believe 2/3 of the scum played THAT bad you personally just solved 2/3 of the game as soon as d2? If you are town, are you that arrogant? Do you believe only you (and LICH) can play that well? Go on, make the elaborate case on how I staged all this with Piko. Let us see how many other people can you convince (except LICH).

You say I am butthurt, but are refusing to accept others managed to catch scum with a different method that does not involve multi quoting every single line one says. You think only your method is the best. And are just as butthurt it did not work when a different approach worked.

I know Caps started the case, but I envisioned a mafioso's (maybe the most active one's?) entire game plan from start to finish. And got it right (for the most part, we cannot be sure about every detail). Not saying it in an arrogant way, just as a thing that happened.
 
Huge props to Caps. But keep in mind that at his first case it was a single (yet elaborate and very right) post/vote. I was the one who when I had 2 votes, made it a wagon (a combination of defending myself, offering a sus option, that only really got susser later).

So, accoriding to Mido, scum!me would have to look at myself at 2 votes and getting lots of flak even from Caps at the time (which could potentially make this 3-0 and let Piko scot free) while Piko was at 1 coasting just fine (that could go 0 if I tried to parrot Caps more on purpose just to get off him and onto me) and be like "yeah it is a GREAT idea to put ALL the spotlight on BOTH of us". Instead of, you know, admit I was playing a messier game, let him bus me while I make a flimsy case on some other rando or maybe an OMGUS on Mido herself to make her look bad after my flip, while I let Piko do his strategy that worked better (at the time).

I guess her rebuttal will just be "WIFOM" lol
 
Just to make clear why I insist on this with Mido.

She must be convinced to drop the case on me and actually start reading other people (not Caps) AND commiting there. With Piko she was like "yeah I see the point but at the same time am actually committing to the exact other side vote wise". Which if not scum, is the kind of town that does not get us somewhere tomorrow.

What we NEED for maximum info is Mido Minish LICH etc to be FIRST in suggesting cases tomorrow (especially Mido who is high active too). It should not be Caps or I guiding them.

Have them all commit on each other.

@TheCapsFan what do you think on this? If you or I suggest something first it will just be too easy for low active scum to follow the flow, be it mislynch or bus. What if we let them all do the first/second votes and actually open up our cards last?
 
mom dad please stop fighting :cry:
Don't worry, we both will still love you :)
Really tho I think we both town read you right now and that might be like the only thing we agree on all game lmao
I mean this is not the first time it happens, Meta Mislynch Shipping was a thing (with marriage and divorce papers filed for husband disappearance), just go ask ME.
Although this time it is slightly worse, I did get more argumentative in the years I was gone, Twitter does that to people...
 
... Perhaps we should also throw any ideas on who the Worry Seeder should target?

There is no point to target who you think is gonna be killed because they would be too ded to tell us.

An idea is to perhaps target someone else who is likely to also claim they were targetted by this. Without any way to predict if scum have roles and what they are, our best bet is to use it as a fruit vendor.

Or just target Mido, ruin her dreams of lynching me /sarcasm
 
we should not throw ideas and rather just trust them in hopes they catch a scum, discussing what a singe role should do is pointless since mafia can coordinate around

I'm not even sure if it's that much of an useful role/ worth coordinating because if the person who gets affected by the worry seed gets targeted for a kill it's not like they'll be around to tell who visited them for the hit
 
All your points are fair, I do have a reason for asking though, hope the person this was actually adressed to got the message.
 
I claim vanilla
Joke

let me guess, realized ur also vanilla?
Joke.
I just realized everstone might actually be a thing and prolly mafia or indept-leaning since it's neg utility
….Proof that someone did not fully read the rules….
which players did not confirm? can anyone check that for me rq?
Laziness.
oh, Dawning actually told us who confirmed and who didn't
@Mint Elv stop being overworked and come kick scum butt
Do your own scum hunting. I’m ISOing you because you have less posts than others.
sounds good to me

Vote: Wissen
Light voting Wissen after LICH saying that Wissen did not confirm. Likely a joke vote.

Assuming all town players have equal chance of getting certain roles, what is the optimal strategy for us?
Stalling so we get as many people to evolve as possible? Although that would also mean mafia gets stronger roles, hmm.
I would say town lean on this. He’s clearly looking to start discussion while also trying to work with town to the best of town’s ability.
Unvote

Think everyone confirmed then? Let's get this ball rollinggg


I'd normally agree with you but the way this setup is made makes so town is likely to get stronger each night. Specially considering town seems to have the same odds of evolving as them.

The main disadvantage is that mafia is able to go after players they consider more skilled, but having a developed set of mechanical roles might be much more important for town since it makes it mechanically threatening for mafia. As an example having few extra people through some cycles can mean the difference between having two extra cop shots (or even other roles that can provide info/disrupt mafia), which is much more menacing than losing a mafia member, since it can expose the entire team via PoE.
Again discussion and attempting to plan using the mechanics. I believe it was Piko who later on complained about this, and as I said at that time, why shouldn’t Light talk about this. Seeing it I stand by it more. He’s clearly trying to come up with a plan against mafia.
I get that, but it doesn't change the fact that everstone might be a neg utility item in the game lol
………If only he read the rules and paid more attention.
what you mean we don't know evolution chances, OP says it's 25% chance every phase
….Now you read the rules?
@DawningWinds
vote count please?
NAI
Why'd tell people you're still a vanilla? Assuming this isn't a WIFOM this just increases mafia's odds of killing a power role.

:confused:
Not really alignment indicative but definitely not helpful or anything. There is no way to know if anyone is lying about their role or not. And considering that the game completely starts vanilla and evolution isn’t announced publicly, it doesn’t really narrow the field.
I'm unsure as to why jaison was lynched instead of wissen.

If wissen was telling the truth, he'd be mafia himself. If he was lying he's either a troll or mafia pulling a shitty gambit, which is more than enough for a lynch.

Regardless of which faction their behavior leans towards, I am in favor of policy lynching that compromised slot or ask mafia/vigi to shoot them, and save the host the stress of having to go around running in circles asking for someone to sub in. I've had plenty of games inactive/ subbing out compromised the situation for town as we got many players, and I'd like to avoid this here if possible.
I agree with this. I didn’t agree with the lynch at all in the first place, but Jaison being lynched over Wissen never made sense when the case was Wissen revealed his mafia buddy. By that logic Wissen being lynched would have been much more informational, and saved DW trouble, especially since Elieson seems to have gone poof.

I also prefer taking the stress from the host over lynching someone who is posting in case of the need for any future sub outs.
idk doesn't sound like mafia caps
A response to Lich Who said he read caps as mafia trying to cut down town numbers. Obvious meta. Meta bad.
mido did you roll mafia you sound mafia-ish
:(
No I’m town. Just grumpy. You’re seeing me trying to behave despite being grumpy a lot. Don’t ask how many sarcastic comments I’ve wrote and then deleted.
not really, just gut feeling
…..gut feelings are not good reasoning ever.
that seems like a random thing to be told
just visited?
Outside of a watcher role someone being told someone was visited is weird, unless the role is meant to cause chaos. I would honestly say it is mafia aligned and the supposed person who visited was not the actual one who visited but rather a fake. Unless Zexy is a watcher which makes announcing it weird.
Seems weird that it would just tell you you got visited but not mention who did that.

It does literally nothing as it is. I'm not sure what a fruit vendor-like role adds to the game when out movement investigative roles are likely to be scarce.i
We clarified this was a misunderstanding of what Zexy was claiming. Assuming the role is mafia I would say this implies that Light is not mafia. It also is clear he had nothing to do with it.
If they as simply visited you that's NAI and non-investigative.
NAI
You worry seed seem to theorize they gave you some sort of temporary thing that allowed you to know the details of people who interacted with you, but that's a pretty big speculation considering you don't seem to have had anyone else visiting you to support that?
Agreed. I like that he’s just not accepting a theory, and is questioning it. This is townie to me. Mafia I think would either let town run around with theories in hope of self destruction.
I'd prefer if you did not reveal their identity and instead let them use said role again, assuming it wasn't n-shot. Although, again, if it was just a loud visitor of sorts it's a pretty NAI role maybe.
This a good post. It’s not pushing anything unnecessarily nor trying to come up with theories. It’s looking for facts and certainty.
If you believe in your worry seed theory, wouldn't that be the very same person who targeted you with it...
Way Again he’s questioning a theory. It reads as though he’s looking for facts not theories.
Oh you addressed it.
NAI
Vote: wissen schaftler

placeholder policy lynch
….I don’t understand this. This is a mafia lean. Jaison flipping town proved that the theory that Wissen is mafia that outed his mafia buddy was wrong. I see no reason for this vote Over scumhunting and finding a real target. Sure in cases like the Wissen-jaison lynch, Wissen was the better option in every way, but with a new day there is no reason to policy lynch him.
"I don't like the idea of voting someone that can't defend themselves out"

"So I'll instead vote one of the few people who have been active and trying to contribute instead"
So these are both in response to Zexy voting Light. I’m assuming he did the quotes as a translation of Zexy. Idk about them honestly.
How is trying to discuss what is the optimal strategy for town + trying to see if we can get any useful info from the claims made in thread is scummy?

I already explained my stance on the previous day lynch, and I think it's bizarre this is being ignored while Zexy's hypocrisy in voting out someone barely active D1 is bring rewarded with a town lean.
In response to Piko. I‘ll say NAI to keep personal bias out. Since he was responding to Piko s read on him it just seems like your run of the mill. I like that he shows he paying attention to the thread, but it’s about himself so that’s why I say NAI
I'm dead in all other games I'm playing, so I'm playing mainly this one. P busy with college stuff and it doesn't help that more than half of the people here either get inactive or hostile when I try to discuss anything.
In response to Caps read on him. NAI
If it was NAI why would you assume this is the reason why they're being voted?


yea my bad, missed that
Town lean. This was in response to Snowy voting me, but it could have been anyone. It is light questioning Snowy’s reasoning since snowy was making an assumption about why I voted for Zexy, instead of asking why. Light on the other hand acknowledged that I might have more than just some claim.
I am the player with most posts and that interacted with you the most. I'm not sure what else you expect me to do or say when I've already said my opinion on D1, made a case as to who I want policy lynched, and have been actively trying to interact with others in the thread by either poking them or throwing out ideas that I deem worth discussing.

I can act like the majority of the players and drop a random readslist full of stretches and paranoia (if even that) to CWAC; or I can do what I have been doing and discuss the setup to optimize our odds + information provided in attempt of finding a contraction, which is actually useful but apparently frowned upon.

So I'm not sure why you and other players are so busy worrying about pressuring me, who's been in this thread at any given chance, when scum is likely to have a couple inactive players just lurking because they're too coward.
The fact mafia didn't bother shooting a more inactive player + the piling accusations of me "not contributing enough" makes it obvious that scum's strategy is to cripple the game activity even if it compromises the healthiness of the game. If anyone here knows my metagame as scum they're aware that I often insist in nightkilling the extremely low activity players first because I vehemently despite a game being compromised due to lack of participation, and this is like a basic moral standard I set, there isn't even WIFOM to be discussed here.
This is in response to Zexy saying Light hadn’t been contributing. I wouldn’t call this alignment indicative, but I do think this genuine frustration since Light has been contributing. He doesn’t have the quantity but he has quality.
Wait for what? Regardless of what jason's alignment was, the fact was that wissen is either a troll or a mafia. I don't see what reason ANY town has to go after jason first and I'd appreciate if they clarified their thought process instead of just saying stuff like "damn im sorry for jumping the gun"


Mido doesn't go around lynching inactives as scum ime because her votes are always justified on analyzing the posts of whoever she's voting.
As I said me feeling she's off is gut feeling. I could try reading more into her posts in an attempt of justifying why I'm feeling like that, but honestly without a clear red flag that just leads to confirmation bias.


I agree Mido bussing wissen would be a possibility.


Yea and I don't like a slot that is just there being dead weight giving the host the headache of looking for a sub after steering a mislynch and breaking a rule.


From my understanding, at the end of each phase each player has 25% chance of evolving and gaining a role. If you gain a role you already had, it gets discarded and another one is randomly picked. The previous roles don't get randomized.

I'm assuming these roles can be n-shot or unlimited. If someone had "Worry Seed" (the role that targeted Zexy), then they should still be able to have access to it in the following nights, where the only exception is if it was a 1-shot, so they wouldn't have any other left.

We can simply confirm such person/ ability exist by it targeting someone else again in the following night, which was my point in that message.
Town. He’s analyzing and contributing. Everything is thought out and level headed. Probably more than a good portion of us got during the phase (myself included.)
I find his read on me frustratingly deceptive and I'm surprised you agree with it
Can you elaborate a bit more on detail on what exactly you're expecting from me?
More genuine frustration. Person after person seems to ignore the fact that he has been contributing. I believe it shows how many people are apparently equating quantity with contribution.
I'm actually townleaning Pikochu because him voting me over a vanilla claim D1 sounds like an honest instinct reaction to countervote someone with the same role (even though he worded as it was a joke), before he realized everyone started as vanilla, which I think is less likely to happen if they were mafia.


Snowy sometimes becomes more active, so prolly not him; but would definitely go after Wissen or Jamie first.
With the Piko lynch this post comes off scummy. It takes what should have been a joke, and turns it into a town tell. There is also the wanting to lynch inactives again, as though that was not a mess the previous day. The way he tries to avoid snowy in favor of those who haven’t posted/are being subbed out. Based solely on the fact that snowy sometimes becomes more active.
you didn't, it's all good lol
I'm also frustrated from the low posting
Sorry people have lives.
Hi ellieson
please catch up asap
NAI
what have I come back to omfl
NAI
Yet when Zexy does it you give them a green lean mkay
This is the second time he made this type of comment about Zexy. Not sure if it means anything but I think it is worth.
@DawningWinds are the roles randed for town and mafia from the same list? or does each faction have their own list of possible roles?
NAI
Vote Phase Extension
NAI
I agree, that Snowy post is very much parroting lol
To be fair Snowy parrots often regardless of alignment, hopefully Minish has something more to add maybe.


smh the strategy of the WEAK (n)(n)


I agree with this looking bad, it pinged me a bit when I read it too but I thought I was overthinking it


Simply because Snowy is less likely to respond and entertain a fruitful discussion than you, I'd assume.
I'm a bit confused about the usage of the word troll here. Do you think they're scum or not?


I don't like inactives crippling a game, regardless of my alignment.


Honestly? I might, ngl
I'm still waiting for me to notice a major red flag, but I admit it's a bit hard since I have 0 experience playing with him


Honestly? yea I could be more committing to voting but I haven't found a very comfortable place to sit on yet
currently rereading the events of D1 to see if I can find something to set my mind on




I'm unsure as to how this changes the fact wissen was and still is more likely to be scum
I legit don't understand why Zexy is so vehemently defending this slot, and if Zexy or Wissen (Ellieson) flips mafia I'll definitely be vocal about lynching the other
This post just feels like it is playing all sides. Also this is like the third post of pointing out something about Zexy. It looks like he’s fueling the flames without being the one that would have to take the blame.
yea?
what did his lynch help get reads on those individuals? Can you elaborate?
Questioning reasoning on something. Town lean.
how about LICH KING, can you refresh my memory on your read on them?
Town.
gentlefeather seems pretty townie to me, I don't think scum tries to guarantee a mislynch last second like that? Even if their scumbud was among the other wagons?

Dawning, can you ping @gentlefeather outside of the thread?
NAI until we know gentle’s alignment.
Although it could be theatrics, but it doesn't seem something I'd expect someone with not so much mafia experience to do, considering it can draw attention to them?


Pretty good point, lol.
I also don't like the "lynch snowy, and if he flips mafia feel free to lynch me". If he flips town are we supposed to townread???? You (Zexy) were constantly suggesting to lynch him instead despite being defending that slot.

I'm pretty torn between Zexy and Piko for today's lynch
I also think that if Zexy is scum there's a decently high chance wissen is also scum, considering there seems to be some pretty desperate attempt to defend that slot that is barely active?
What I don’t like about this is I don’t think we saw Light say much against Piko, and I think there was more against Zexy. Which makes this one seem like he’s covering all bases.
Yes they do, it's likely to backfire and get their asses lynched instead.
Scum doesn't like to stay on the final votals because it's a common and intuitive way to analyze where scum might be.

Again, the getting late part to vote might be theatrics, but I am skeptical of gentlefeather purposely drawing attention to themselves over something that changes nothing in that day's lynch.
I feel like this is a matter of philosophy. NAI
I don't see a strong connection between Piko and Wissen, honestly.

You or wissen flipping scum makes me see the other as scumbud, and Piko as townier.
Piko flipping scum makes me see you as townier, doesn't affect my read on wissen.
Hmm. I feel like this is too many blanks to judge this one yet.
wissen affirmed jaison was mafia D1
Zexy and Caps then lynched jaison D1 and they were town

duskdawn died N1 and was indept
gentlefeather and JamieIsBored are fairly inactive rn
Raven's activity dropped significantly

Zexy claims they were targeted N1 by a role that made so he was aware of people visiting him

some friction between Midorikawa (Mint) and Zexy
Pikochu, Caps, Mido, and me seem to be the mainly active people atm
LICH has been popping up sporadically but not adding too much to the convo

Zexy has some interactions with Snowy, Caps has some with Pikochu
Still a bad run down :p
oh yea, wissen was subbed out for breaking rules (we don't know which one) and is being replaced with Ellieson
and u should prolly vote for phase extension cuz we could definitely use some time to rediscuss the day now that we have active people subbing in
NAI
I already explained it like twice or thrice that I do not like how people went for jaison, because if the logic was that "wissen might've outed his buddy" people should've gone for wissen, not jaison. If wissen was telling the truth we'd still get scum lynched; but if wissen was lying (which turned out to be the case) we'd still have a chance of hitting scum at best, and get rid of a townie town who doesn't care about hurting town at worst.

From my brief reread of D1 Zexy was vehemently defending wissen and pushing for jaison, which is extremely odd to me. Them defending that we should stall wissen's lynch to allow the slot to be replaced and justify their actions (spoiler alert there's no justification, everyone was vanilla, either wissen was a toxic player or mafia pulling the shitiest gambit) also irked me quite a bit, which makes me think Zexy might be scumbuds buying time for that slot.


meanie :(

the best i could do without being biased as fuck + considering I have been putting a limited amount of time into the game lol
feel free to add more details
In response to me asking about him saying zexy defended Wissen. It is a good answer so town lean for a clear consistent answer. The choice of the word vehemently in contingency with zexy’s name is interesting to note.
I'm lost as to what you mean, his defense isn't a direct one. He acknowledged that wissen was scummy, but did so by redirecting the attention towards jaison instead of the root of the issue (which was wissen).
More of answering me asking about how it was a defense.
I might need older Zexy games to get a grasp of his playstyle.
When was the last time you played a mafia game @Zexy ?
No, no you do not. Everything you need is in thread.
Unvote
Vote: Pikochu


I'm really interested in seeing where these tied wagons will go
Again he‘s hardly mentioned Piko in a negative light vs how much he’s brought up Zexy excluding answering my direct questions. So this honestly looks like it comes out of nowhere. There was the small bit about talking about mechanics, and Piko s read on him, but he hasn’t really expressed any belief that screams “Piko could be mafia” or any intent to lynch him.
Zexy pushed for the jaison lynch + been a bit hypocritical regarding some stuff, I think Mint's post explain it fairly well. He's also been a core point of interaction, so his lynch could provide a pretty good amount of reads on other players.

Piko has been having extremely inconsistent with both reasoning + reads + votes, and been getting fairly overly defensive.
His explanation of the cases to Minish. The first we see of him being against Piko with anything more than a vote or “I’ll vote him”
you know what, I think zexy is townier to me at this point, I might stick with my Piko vote
No explanation, and again just considering his earlier posts it does come off strange.
I did not say that. If you didn't understand what I said ask me to clarify instead of putting words on my mouth.
I said that I though her attempt of vote was townie, because I don't think scum comes out of nowhere and tries to pile up on mislynch in a case like that where a mislynch was already decided through an extra vote that would do nothing but attract attention.
Response to Caps in regard to the gentle vote. Clarification. NAI
This was a response to Raven unvoting Zexy. If he think Piko is scum but not Zexy then why question it?
atm I have my eyes on LICH

I'm not sure who else could pair with Pikochu, maybe Jamie or one of the players that subbed in (Ellie or Minish)?
Minish is famous for bussing and subbed in for Snowy who did not make a strong impression on me. Ellieson subbed in for wissen which is still a very (??) slot considering the day 1 actions.

I'll try to recheck the interactions Pikochu had with all those players D1 maybe.
Took me a moment to understand why this was rubbing me wrong. It’s his choice of people. Just earlier in the day phase he was against Wissen and piko being paired and now he’s for it?
I don't think he breaks the tie in your favor if he's buds
If he was scumbuds he'd probably take the chance to bus piko instead of just hopping out
Interesting. I’ll explain below outside the spoiler.

Quick note i know there are more posts after this but this is all I had at the time I started.

Now Then. Light has a good solid start, and is pretty good in his responses. However I do think his place on the Piko lynch is strange. There were basically no signs, and half the signs you could argue about he had with others. It was like two signs.

Yet there were a lot of remarks towards Zexy and comments about him And his actions.

I think Light is mafia that bussed Piko. And his posts would put Raven as his partner.

The thread was hot so they had a chance to hop on both wagons to be able to try to ensure a mislynch or to gain town cred. When he asks Raven why he unvote, it looks like it might be a slip up, and that raven ruined the chances of them mislynching a townie, and Lights chance of jumping wagons. Both wagons had good cases (seriously don’t try to deny it people) so being on either wagon wouldn’t have been scummy, especially when one had me to hide behind.

The last post I quoted looks like a defense of Raven since it was in response to Zexy calling the unvote scummy. Whether he unvote or switched wagons, Pikos fate was sealed, and was more likely to die over Zexy since I had mentioned seeing the case on Piko. This means that Piko would have been the better lynch for mafia at that point, and they were better off lynching him.

”But Light voted Piko Friday”

Yes after the phase extension was brought up. No one was going to vote Against that extension. Thus he had plenty of time to change his vote if the opportunity presented itself. The vote was also after Caps gave me the Piko case. Light knows I don’t sit around and twiddle my thumbs if I ask for something like that. He can tell Piko is about be under more scrutiny.

I also personally know he’s excellent at scum theater. He and I have done and excellent job of it once to win a game.

ultimately his posts scream that he logically should have pursued Zexy (I’m not saying we should have lynched Zexy instead. Just pointing out what the logic says should have been a town members actions) who was a perfect mislynch. But instead he jumped on the Piko lynch despite not saying anything about it until that point. An it does read as though raven was his partner towards the end. Though I will ISO raven just to see what is going on with him on a deeper level.

Even if Raven is not Lights partner, that “why” to upvoting Zexy is still strange For someone trying to lynch Piko.
 
Wow, a Mido post that makes sense. I do not necessarily agree with everything especially since I do not know ExLight meta, and still town lean ExLight (for now), but the reasoning is solid and is fair to be looked at. It is the kind of case that does contribute, and should help us read Mido better in the future too, depending on if she actually commits to it, if she can also keep the narrative of this scenario up in Day 3, and of course what flip we get in the end.

I do not yet trust Mido, but I commend her for the case is well thought out for their wincon regardless of their respective alignments, and honestly if someone who did not agree as much with Piko made it I would trust it more. It also minimises the chance they both Mido and ExLight are scum, but she is cunning enough I would not 100% put it past her.

Although with the way this point is presented, Raven might be as valid of a case, if not more actually, a major part of the theory says ExLight/Raven scum together. Raven still looks scummier than ExLight to me based on the voting patterns, and if he flips mafia then yes we can definitely think this much harder.
 
for her wincon*
minimises the chances that*

My current dillema is if I should ISO Raven now (out of fear I get killed) or let it be for mid/late d3.

I still believe Caps and I should not lead any d3 initiative before others put at least two votes on someone. Let everyone else commit to wagons first.
 
Have you ever guys considered that I tried to create a tie, avoiding being on a mislynching wagon while also saving my scum bud?

My current dillema is if I should ISO Raven now (out of fear I get killed) or let it be for mid/late d3.
Probably based too much on wifom, but...
After this, I think it's fairly reasonable for you to expect getting killed anyway, so go ahead and do it now so people can use your thoughts for reference on D3.
 
Have you ever guys considered that I tried to create a tie, avoiding being on a mislynching wagon while also saving my scum bud?


Probably based too much on wifom, but...
After this, I think it's fairly reasonable for you to expect getting killed anyway, so go ahead and do it now so people can use your thoughts for reference on D3.
No need for him. I’m going to ISO you now.

Also he or I are the most likely night kills.
 
Mido as a night kill? I kinda doubt that. Caps is more likely.
Have you ever guys considered that I tried to create a tie, avoiding being on a mislynching wagon while also saving my scum bud?
... Yes? You even said yourself it does not really look good on you.

What are you trying to do here, an "if you suspect me, please consider suspecting me for this and not for something else"? How does that help town, if you are town?
 
Still been pretty busy with work so haven't gotten to catch up more. Have briefly read some of the recent posts though.

Just wanna say that yes, bussing is my meta. I'm not afraid to bus and do it a lot. But I feel like this situation is different. I subbed in and had no clue what was going on. If I were scum I could have easily used subbing in late as an excuse not to take a side or to even vote Zexy really. Or left it up to a tie because even town me loves a good tie. But I put Piko in the maj because just from my limited read he didn't sound townie to me.

Also, haven't caught up on the entire situation but I feel this doesn't exactly give Zexy town points yet either? I've seen a lot of times when there's only two major wagons that both are scum. Feel like it's more spread when there's town wagons. And it seems like Zexy possibly wasn't swayed on Piko til it seemed like his only option to live? I don't have a solid read on him yet, as what I've read on d1 I've liked some of his posts and some I thought were scummier. But I just don't want him to go under the radar now because of this lynch.

Midori's above post is good. And once again I find myself liking what she's putting down. I know she's really fucking good at mafia so I don't want to discount her being scum. But at the moment I think I'm just gonna town read her because we're thinking so similarly.
 
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