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SwSh GameFreak is dis-encouraging breeding by taking egg moves off of certain pokémon and encourages tedious grinding for Watts and TRs instead

TheHungryBox

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I was doing a bit of research on Serebii but then i noticed a problem, GF is giving breeders the middle finger

Notable examples of no longer being egg moves:
-Hydreigon lost Earth Power
-Tyranitar lost Dragon Dance, Iron Head and Stealth Rock
-Tsareena lost Play Rough
-Charizard lost Flare Blitz, Crunch and Dragon Pulse
-Blastoise lost Fake Out, Dragon Pulse and Aura Sphere
-Venusaur lost Giga Drain and Sleep Powder
-Machamp lost the Elemental Punches and Knock Off
-Gardevoir lost Encore and Misty Terrain
-Milotic lost Dragon Pulse
-Arcanine lost Close Combat and Burn Up
-Roserade lost Giga Drain, Synthesis and Sleep Powder
-Haxorus lost Iron Tail
-Chandelure lost Heat Wave
-Noivern lost Tailwind
And that's only a few examples

Even if said Pokémon can still learn via TRs (which as i said before, are tedious to grind for) or level-up, you now have to grind for watts to teach pokémon said moves

Egg moves were part of the charm of making breedjects and especially egglockes, but now that's gone, then what the hell is the point of breeding then?

Not to mention, it's making Egglockes less interesting

Be honest
Would you rather grind for egg moves or grind for watts to get one-time use TRs?
I would the prefer the former, but hey at least the fixed the one problem with pokémon who evolve via stones
 
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Notable examples of no longer being egg moves:
-Hydreigon lost Earth Power
-Tyranitar lost Dragon Dance, Iron Head and Stealth Rock
-Tsareena lost Play Rough
-Charizard lost Flare Blitz, Crunch and Dragon Pulse
-Blastoise lost Fake Out, Dragon Pulse and Aura Sphere
-Venusaur lost Giga Drain and Sleep Powder
-Machamp lost the Elemental Punches and Knock Off
-Gardevoir lost Encore and Misty Terrain
-Milotic lost Dragon Pulse
-Arcanine lost Close Combat and Burn Up
-Roserade lost Giga Drain, Synthesis and Sleep Powder
-Haxorus lost Iron Tail
-Noivern lost Tailwind
And that's only a few examples

Even if said Pokémon can still learn via TRs (which as i said before, are tedious to grind for) or level-up, you now have to grind for watts to teach pokémon said moves
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if I try to breed a Hydreigon with another Hydreigon that knows Earth Power, their offspring will not have Earth Power as an egg move? Or are you saying that the Pokemon that could pass down these egg moves are no longer in the game (ex: the Garchomp line, which normally passed down Earth Power to Dieno), are not in these games?

So after doing a little research on Serebii, it turns out that yes, these moves have been removed as egg moves. I am going to post my response in another post just to make it less confusing.
 
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Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if I try to breed a Hydreigon with another Hydreigon that knows Earth Power, their offspring will not have Earth Power as an egg move? Or are you saying that the Pokemon that could pass down these egg moves are no longer in the game (ex: the Garchomp line, which normally passed down Earth Power to Dieno), are not in these games?

I think it's more of the latter than former, at least from my observations, but I'm not 100% sure, as I haven't really dabbled much into the subject. However, something came to mind while reading this thread. Since TRs act like old-school TMs, maybe you can teach a TR to a Mon and have it bred the move down like it did in earlier Gens? So, for example, you breed a female Hydreigon that knows Earth Power via TR and/or another compatible male Mon that knows it via TR, and the resulting Dieno will have Earth Power upon hatching. Like I said, I haven't actually dabbled into yet, but maybe you can pass down TR moves the same way you used to pass down pre-Gen V TMs to compatible Mons, therefor limiting the need to grind for Watts/TRs. I'm not sure, as I just thought of it just now, but maybe you can use TRs the same way as old-school TMs worked pre-Gen V? It's worth a shot.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention this. Probably the reason why Machamp can't get the Elemental Punches via breeding anymore is because they're now regular, store-bought TMs, so there is no need to breed for them when you can just buy the needed TM to teach the move to it. Just FYI.
 
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After breeding a Roserade with a Vileplume that knows Giga Drain (a TM now, not a TR, I would like to note), I can confirm that these moves are no longer egg moves.

Egg moves were part of the charm of making breedjects and especially egglockes, but now that's gone, then what the hell is the point of breeding then?
While I am very, very upset and disappointed about this, I don't think that breeding is completely invalidated now. Yes, Pokemon now have less egg moves and therefore the diversity of breedjects is reduced significantly, it does not change the fact that egg moves are still a thing.

Even if said Pokémon can still learn via TRs (which as i said before, are tedious to grind for) or level-up, you now have to grind for watts to teach pokémon said moves
Would you rather grind for egg moves or grind for watts to get one-time use TRs?

Watt/TR grinding isn't as tedious as you make it out to be, though I will admit it is still somewhat tedious. After the post-game, when you will most likely do most of your breeding, each non-raid den grants 200 watts while an active raid den grants 2,000 watts. From my research, there are 99 dens in total. Even if no den was active, you would obtain 19,800 watts just from interacting with each one. However, in reality, at least some of the dens will be active so you will be able to get even more watts. Not only that, you can get these TRs as rewards from the Max Raid battles, along with other goodies that make them worthwhile such as nuggets or HA 'mons. So you get TRs as you grind for them, along with other benefits.

I would say that makes watt/TR grinding about as tedious as breeding. I spent a lot of time trying to get Turtonator's four egg moves, for example, more so than grinding raids. And at least it doesn't cost money to fight in a Max Raid battle. I've lost over 100,000 dollars in Omega Ruby to the daycare.

Would it have been better if GameFreak kept these moves as egg moves? Definitely. Is the current system any more tedious than the last? Does it completely make breeding irrelevant? No.
 
I was doing a bit of research on Serebii but then i noticed a problem, GF is giving breeders the middle finger
Notable examples of no longer being egg moves:
-Hydreigon lost Earth Power
Because it was a chained Egg Move courtesy of Pokemon who aren't in SwSh. Seeing as how the Nursery now allows Pokemon to tutor other Pokemon of the same species moves, passing down Earth Power is still there in spirit should you want to do that outside of a TR.
-Tyranitar lost Dragon Dance, Iron Head and Stealth Rock
Hmm; only Dragon Dance would be passable, so I'm unsure why they didn't keep it...The other two moves follow the Hydreigon reasoning.
-Tsareena lost Play Rough
Same as Hydreigon as Comfey aren't in these games.
-Charizard lost Flare Blitz, Crunch and Dragon Pulse
The Charmander line still learn Flare Blitz by level-up. Although Crunch and Dragon Pulse should still be doable...again, unsure why they didn't keep it.
-Blastoise lost Fake Out, Dragon Pulse and Aura Sphere
Fake Out and Dragon Pulse should have been doable, although Aura Sphere was only viable by the now nonexistent Clawitzer.
-Venusaur lost Giga Drain and Sleep Powder
Venusaur still learn Sleep Powder via level-up; as Giga Drain is a limitless TM now, it's no longer an Egg Move. They've done this since Gen 6, where TMs are no longer Egg Moves.
-Machamp lost the Elemental Punches and Knock Off
Elemental Punches are all TMs now, so refer to the Venusaur example. The Machamp line learns Knock Off via level-up.
-Gardevoir lost Encore and Misty Terrain
Who uses Misty Terrain on a Gardevoir? Encore can't be learned as the Gulpin line aren't in the games; Misty Terrain is a level-up move for Gardevoir.
-Milotic lost Dragon Pulse
Another oddity as there are still parents who could breed the move for the baby Feebas.
-Arcanine lost Close Combat and Burn Up
As someone who used Arcanine in these games, I felt the loss of Close Combat. Arcanine learns Burn Up via level-up.
-Roserade lost Giga Drain, Synthesis and Sleep Powder
Giga Drain and Synthesis are level-up moves, Sleep Powder is still an Egg Move.
-Haxorus lost Iron Tail
The Aron line isn't in the games to provide it.
-Chandelure lost Heat Wave
A chained Egg Move, no longer possible due to the absence of the Macargo line.
-Noivern lost Tailwind
The Noivern family learn this via level-up.

Egg moves were part of the charm of making breedjects and especially egglockes, but now that's gone, then what the hell is the point of breeding then?
Well, you have breeding for the sake of breeding. Then there's trading for other Pokemon, gifting people Pokemon, breeding for IVs, breeding for Abilities, breeding for Natures, breeding for Shinies, and the remaining Egg Moves Pokemon still have. I disagree that there's no point to breeding just because Pokemon have fewer Egg Moves to pass on.

Be honest
Would you rather grind for egg moves or grind for watts to get one-time use TRs?

To be honest, I don't mind the changes. I think it's fun getting TRs from completing Raid Battles as there is an incentive for playing; I've amassed plenty in my main play-through, before I beat the game. So, it isn't purely buying Watts for them like you seem to claim. Secondly, a lot of Egg Moves were streamlined into level-up movepools (I consider this a boon); it's easier for players to get them and not be redundant things to have in regards to breeding (I still don't understand why the Pumpkaboo line learn Trick-or-Treat three whopping times). For example, Lucario now learns Meteor Mash through level-up, so there isn't the hassle of having to breed one for it. There's also the fact that a lot of Pokemon, like Charmander, had a huge Egg Move pool; you couldn't possibly put all of them into the 4-spot move slot; maybe that's another reason they didn't feel as bad chopping some moves off. And lastly, I imagine the cases where the Pokemon could have the Egg Move but no longer do was done in an attempt to get people to do more Raid Battles and interact with the Wild Area more.
 
Because it was a chained Egg Move courtesy of Pokemon who aren't in SwSh.
Same as Hydreigon as Comfey aren't in these games.
although Aura Sphere was only viable by the now nonexistent Clawitzer.
Encore can't be learned as the Gulpin line aren't in the games
The Aron line isn't in the games to provide it.
A chained Egg Move, no longer possible due to the absence of the Macargo line.

To be fair, GameFreak could simply make it so that a Galar-legal parent could pass these moves down.
 
I just experimented with my previous theory. Turns out, no, TRs cannot be passed down like old-school TMs. I used a cheap experiment by breeding a Galarian Weezing with a Gallade. I taught Gallade both Psybeam (via Move Relearner) and one of my 12 Shadow Ball TRs (yes, I have that many), since both Mons can learn it, to test and see if one or both moves get passed down. Hatched one of the resulting eggs, and I saw that the baby Koffing had Psybeam as an Egg Move but no Shadow Ball. So, yeah, it will be rather tedious to get certain moves now, but it's not as bad as before. Like @SpinyShell said, in the post-game, farming for Watts is easier, as unoccupied dens produce 200 Watts while active ones give 2000, at least quadruple what it was previously. That alone can buy two 1000 Watt TRs like Endure or one 2000 Watt TR like Toxic Spikes. Plus the Rotom Rally is a decent way of racking up cheap Watts for doing virtually nothing but running a course. But, as SpinyShell said, it's no more tedious than breeding as a whole, so it's not a huge issue. Annoying, yes, but not the end of the world.
 
I tried chain breeding once, and only once. I felt like it was kind of a waste of time for me, so I'm also someone who really doesn't care about chain breeding moves being removed, either.

It's not like they took away egg moves completely. If you were only using breeding for egg moves you were kind of doing it wrong anyways. Because there's a lot of stuff that still encourages breeding like late game pokemon and version exclusives. Also shinies and perfect IVs are also good reasons for breeding.
 
I have to wonder when Home is released, if a Hydreigon with Earth Power from the 3DS games will have that move deleted if it's transfered from Home to a Gen 8 game. Honestly, it would be a dick move if that actually happened.

Took a look at the moves in the OP and it seems a lot of them are technical records. I still wonder if a move a pokemon has in previous games that it can't learn in Gen 8 will get deleted.
 
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