Speculation General Remake Discussion

[Silktree]

I think that BW will get ILCA remakes that fans will inevitably complain about, while Johto will get the Legends treatment (in addition to GSC being added to Switch Online). The former will have some B2W2 features, namely the Ghetsis/Kyurem battle with a twist (like Giratina in BDSP).

BDSP and PLA sold well (about the same as LGPE, and PLA has potential for more), but I don't think that having so many Pokemon in common helped. At any rate, HGSS are older than BW, and Kanto+Johto Pokemon are more popular than Unova ones. And let's not even get started about Johto lore being more accommodating of a Legends game than Unova lore.

 

[JollyYoshi]

I don’t want any more Pokémon Chibi remakes. I think an ILCA remake would destroy the original feel of Pokémon Black and White. (I’d say the original feel was cool and emotional)

We’re just better off getting a reimagining of Unova from GameFreak or just an outright remake (like ORAS) if at all possible.

 

[Pigrider09]

I don’t want any more Pokémon Chibi remakes. I think an ILCA remake would destroy the original feel of Pokémon Black and White. (I’d say the original feel was cool and emotional)

We’re just better off getting a reimagining of Unova from GameFreak or just an outright remake (like ORAS) if at all possible.

I really do not care what happens with unova remakes. I really only care about the region itself being there, available for a new generation of players. I feel like there are some people (not you jolly yoshi, your cool) who will never be satisfied:

Person: OMG1!!11!!!1! SwSh doesn't have the national dex! Worst games ever!1!!1!
Same person: EW!!@!12!1!!! BDSP chibi graphics are so bad! Worst games ever!!!1!
Same person... again: UGH!!@!@!12!11! LA and SV have bad graphics on launch! No I don't care that they are open world! They SUCK! Worst games Ever!!!!!!!!1!!!1!!!
Like bruh. Not everything is going to be Platinum. And even that had its faults! (I'm looking at you hms) Accept the faults and enjoy the game.
The only thing that would make me somewhat upset about the predicted remake is if they do not include B2W2s expanded range of pre-league pokemon. This was a major fault of BDSP in my opinion. Other than that, I am very excited for this new opportunity to experience the unova region! Also I am very sorry if none of my crap makes sense.

 

[nickdt]

If you don’t consider it a remake, it’s kind of hard to explain what it is then. It isn’t really a reimagining because the locations are the same except for some changes and graphics. It also can’t really be considered a “spin-off” because it’s heavily based off of the original red and blue game. (Same locations in the same condition, same gym leaders)

Aside from the let’s go mechanics and lack of postgame, LGPE is the superior version of Red and Blue. But in all honesty, when looking at the game, the let’s go mechanics don’t destroy the game for me.

If we do get a Johto remake, we’re better off not having it be a let’s go game probably.

It cannot be a remake for the simple thing not all events are the same....

Like for example Green appears in the game... which she doesn't in the Originals and Red and Blue have already started their journeys. Archer also appears in the game and he doesn't appear until Johto canonically.

For me... if the story and characters are not the same... i cannot see the game as a remake (And that is not taking into consideration the mechanics like the catching and the Mega Evolution for example, since if i take the mechanics into account, ORAS isn't really a remake either).

 

[Bolt Strike]

I really do not care what happens with unova remakes. I really only care about the region itself being there, available for a new generation of players. I feel like there are some people (not you jolly yoshi, your cool) who will never be satisfied:

Person: OMG1!!11!!!1! SwSh doesn't have the national dex! Worst games ever!1!!1!
Same person: EW!!@!12!1!!! BDSP chibi graphics are so bad! Worst games ever!!!1!
Same person... again: UGH!!@!@!12!11! LA and SV have bad graphics on launch! No I don't care that they are open world! They SUCK! Worst games Ever!!!!!!!!1!!!1!!!
Like bruh. Not everything is going to be Platinum. And even that had its faults! (I'm looking at you hms) Accept the faults and enjoy the game.
The only thing that would make me somewhat upset about the predicted remake is if they do not include B2W2s expanded range of pre-league pokemon. This was a major fault of BDSP in my opinion. Other than that, I am very excited for this new opportunity to experience the unova region! Also I am very sorry if none of my crap makes sense.

Just because someone has a complaint about the game doesn't mean that they hate it (it might, but not always). I for one do like most of the Switch games (except for LGPE, which I utterly loathe for being the exact opposite of what I want in a Pokemon in almost every way, and BDSP, which feels a bit lazy for a $60 Switch game), but that doesn't mean they're immune to criticism for those issues.

It cannot be a remake for the simple thing not all events are the same....

Like for example Green appears in the game... which she doesn't in the Originals and Red and Blue have already started their journeys. Archer also appears in the game and he doesn't appear until Johto canonically.

For me... if the story and characters are not the same... i cannot see the game as a remake (And that is not taking into consideration the mechanics like the catching and the Mega Evolution for example, since if i take the mechanics into account, ORAS isn't really a remake either).

HGSS replaced Kris with Lyra and added more detail and lore to the legendary events. ORAS added Zinnia and changed Magma/Aqua's motivations as well as changed the Groudon/Kyogre battle so they Primal Revert. Even by the logic of "the storyline has to be the same", HGSS and ORAS don't fit that definition. The only remakes that do are BDSP and FRLG if you don't count the events of the Sevii Islands.

 

[RileyXY1]

Just because someone has a complaint about the game doesn't mean that they hate it (it might, but not always). I for one do like most of the Switch games (except for LGPE, which I utterly loathe for being the exact opposite of what I want in a Pokemon in almost every way, and BDSP, which feels a bit lazy for a $60 Switch game), but that doesn't mean they're immune to criticism for those issues.



HGSS replaced Kris with Lyra and added more detail and lore to the legendary events. ORAS added Zinnia and changed Magma/Aqua's motivations as well as changed the Groudon/Kyogre battle so they Primal Revert. Even by the logic of "the storyline has to be the same", HGSS and ORAS don't fit that definition. The only remakes that do are BDSP and FRLG if you don't count the events of the Sevii Islands.

Even FRLG changed something. Namely it changed the item you needed to get in order to get the guards to let you into Saffron City. In the original games, you had to buy a drink from the Celadon Department Store rooftop. In FRLG they changed it so that you needed to get a Key Item called Tea located in one of the apartment buildings in Celadon. Although this was a necessary change due to the fact that held items were now a thing, which made it possible to trade items between players which would mean that had they left it the way it originally was someone could trade one of the drinks to the player and allow them to reach Saffron much earlier than they were supposed to.

 

[Nicolas721]

This subforum lives

The Electrum leak may have been fake but something about it in my opinion nailed GameFreak's way of thinking, I think some kind of high-quality Johto sequel might be on the works since Johto's very popular. As a companion piece we could see a shiny remaster of HGSS by ILCA. Let's Go doesn't really feel that necessary now, through it could use the recently announced Pokemon Go Plus+ in some way. In the extremely unlikely case Game Freak admits SV was rushed and therefore wants to completely focus on Gen X they'll go for ILCA's HGSS.

Unova...feels too soon imo. Its Pokemon and characters (besides N) aren't that popular compared to Sinnoh's, I doubt it's that big of a priority. Also, it's possible that the 2024 game is the final Switch game so they'll likely go for something easy to adapt.

 

[JollyYoshi]

Another problem I see with making Unova soon is that then the time to remake Kalos which I feel like is a very hard creative decision. Like for Kalos, what can really be improved to make it feel more modern? Lots of time needs to pass before Unova is remade so that a Kalos remake will feel good. (But who knows if they’ll even make a remake)

I think if Pokémon wants to bring the original Black and White games to the Switch, they should just port them somehow. Though, I’m not sure how they’ll do it as you probably know.

When looking at the remake situation for Unova, I just want Unova with something new whether it be gameplay or graphics

 

[Bolt Strike]

Another problem I see with making Unova soon is that then the time to remake Kalos which I feel like is a very hard creative decision. Like for Kalos, what can really be improved to make it feel more modern? Lots of time needs to pass before Unova is remade so that a Kalos remake will feel good. (But who knows if they’ll even make a remake)

One thing I've noticed with Nintendo is that when it comes time to re-release an older 3D game, they trend more towards remasters over remakes. It seems like it's quicker and easier for them to take the original and getting it running at a higher resolution instead of remaking it from the ground up. I suspect future remakes of 3D Pokemon games might do the same, they might just take XY, make it look prettier, and plop it on the new hardware with little to no changes.

 

[Pigrider09]

Just because someone has a complaint about the game doesn't mean that they hate it (it might, but not always). I for one do like most of the Switch games (except for LGPE, which I utterly loathe for being the exact opposite of what I want in a Pokemon in almost every way, and BDSP, which feels a bit lazy for a $60 Switch game), but that doesn't mean they're immune to criticism for those issues.

First of all, you do realize that is almost half of the games on the switch right?
Second of all, I know that these games are not perfect. BDSP, one of the main talking points of this thread, is definitely lacking in several areas. I personally think they would have benefited from having the platinum dex and hopefully giving flint some actual fire types. But I can recognize that they were challenging games due to said lack of pokemon and difficult elite four and champion. All I'm saying is that remakes should be accepted, even with their faults.

 

[Bolt Strike]

First of all, you do realize that is almost half of the games on the switch right?

Yes, but 3/5 games still qualifies as "most".

Second of all, I know that these games are not perfect. BDSP, one of the main talking points of this thread, is definitely lacking in several areas. I personally think they would have benefited from having the platinum dex and hopefully giving flint some actual fire types. But I can recognize that they were challenging games due to said lack of pokemon and difficult elite four and champion. All I'm saying is that remakes should be accepted, even with their faults.

No, no one should be obligated to "accept" a game they don't like. If they don't like it, they don't like it. I for one and not interested in spending $60 on a game that's nearly identical to the original game I've played before and is horribly lacking compared to the new and original games built from the ground up. LA is much closer to the type of experience I'd like to have with older regions on newer hardware.

 

[Pigrider09]

No, no one should be obligated to "accept" a game they don't like. If they don't like it, they don't like it. I for one and not interested in spending $60 on a game that's nearly identical to the original game I've played before and is horribly lacking compared to the new and original games built from the ground up. LA is much closer to the type of experience I'd like to have with older regions on newer hardware.

Yeah... but you are not the intended audience for these games. I was unable to play any games pre switch (until recently anyway as I came into the possession of a gameboy advance). Nintendo has to balance pleasing several fanbases. LGPE and BDSP are for the more casual players who are trying to get into the games or experience a region new. The hardcore players of the world just have to deal with these games and hope for a game that is more suited to them.

Side note: While I enjoy debating this subject, I do not want this discussion to affect our opinions of each other. We cool?

 

[Norzan]

All I'm saying is that remakes should be accepted, even with their faults.

When remakes are just worse versions of an existing third version like Platinum, i won't accept it. And i wouldn't consider BDSP challenging in the slightest, the only reason people even struggled with the Elite Four is because the main game is so braindead easy due to the Exp. Share and affection mechanic that it lures the player into a state where they think they don't have to try. It's the same with Ultra Necrozma in Ultra Sun and Moon, the game is far too easy for most of the playtime that a small difficulty spike like Ultra Necrozma seems like a mountain.

Me personally, i'm sick of pokemon remakes and it's kind of disheartning that a lot of people just accept them because "it's a tradition". Instead of getting actual new games akin to Legends Arceus, we are getting the same game but with a different coat of paint and actually worse in some ways than the game it's remaking, that's when i know they have ran their course. Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee made it worse to me because it's a remake of Generation 1 again.

Yeah, i can just not play them, but my time in this earth is finite and i don't want to wait too long for actual new games that offer new takes on older regions.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Honestly, I would just prefer either more Legends games, or sequels to games released in previous regions at this point. Anything to add something that's a lot more different than just graphics. The fact that BDSP couldn't even have new forms for Dialga and Palkia just because those forms were in Legends Arceus instead only hurt the remakes in the long run, considering ORAS already have new forms for their mascot legendaries.

So yes, Unova would do a whole lot better with another sequel, or a Legends game, both of these options are much better than the remake option at this point.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Yeah... but you are not the intended audience for these games. I was unable to play any games pre switch (until recently anyway as I came into the possession of a gameboy advance). Nintendo has to balance pleasing several fanbases. LGPE and BDSP are for the more casual players who are trying to get into the games or experience a region new. The hardcore players of the world just have to deal with these games and hope for a game that is more suited to them.

For LGPE, I would argue that the target audience for that game was a poor choice. The target audience they wanted was not the audience that's interested in the Switch and based on how the sales compare to both other Switch games and past remakes, it seems that the game largely failed in its goal of attracting Go players to the Switch. It sold well, but about the same as other remakes so most likely the game was simply being bought by longtime fans that tolerated the simplifications and a regular old Kanto remake most likely would've sold about the same. It was an experiment, it failed, and I see no justification to repeat it.

For BDSP, remakes have two target audiences:

1. Players that were too young to experience the original game
2. Players that have nostalgia for the original game and want to re-experience it

I fit more in the latter category. I did like DP for its time. I also like Platinum for its time and they did little to appeal to that which is another issue. But I have issues beyond even that. The key phrase here is "for its time". There are issues with all three games that would've been difficult or even impossible to fix during the DS days that are perfectly fixable now, and that ruins the sense of nostalgia. Nostalgia only works if it recreates the positive memories, if you remember the flaws alongside it, you'll come out of the game feeling like it wasn't as great as you remembered and your impression of the game will be forever ruined.

Lastly, the notion that there need to be separate games for hardcore and casual gamers is a poor strategy. The reality is every game should appeal to a mix of casual and hardcore gamers to succeed. You need the casuals because that audience is a much bigger pond to help drive your sales. But you also need hardcore gamers because they're more likely to engage with your game and market it for you through word of mouth. There are good reasons to have different styles of gameplay for the same IP, even among the main series, but casual vs. hardcore is not one of them.

 

[Pigrider09]

For LGPE, I would argue that the target audience for that game was a poor choice. The target audience they wanted was not the audience that's interested in the Switch and based on how the sales compare to both other Switch games and past remakes, it seems that the game largely failed in its goal of attracting Go players to the Switch. It sold well, but about the same as other remakes so most likely the game was simply being bought by longtime fans that tolerated the simplifications and a regular old Kanto remake most likely would've sold about the same. It was an experiment, it failed, and I see no justification to repeat it.

For BDSP, remakes have two target audiences:

1. Players that were too young to experience the original game
2. Players that have nostalgia for the original game and want to re-experience it

I fit more in the latter category. I did like DP for its time. I also like Platinum for its time and they did little to appeal to that which is another issue. But I have issues beyond even that. The key phrase here is "for its time". There are issues with all three games that would've been difficult or even impossible to fix during the DS days that are perfectly fixable now, and that ruins the sense of nostalgia. Nostalgia only works if it recreates the positive memories, if you remember the flaws alongside it, you'll come out of the game feeling like it wasn't as great as you remembered and your impression of the game will be forever ruined.

Lastly, the notion that there need to be separate games for hardcore and casual gamers is a poor strategy. The reality is every game should appeal to a mix of casual and hardcore gamers to succeed. You need the casuals because that audience is a much bigger pond to help drive your sales. But you also need hardcore gamers because they're more likely to engage with your game and market it for you through word of mouth. There are good reasons to have different styles of gameplay for the same IP, even among the main series, but casual vs. hardcore is not one of them.

Yeah thats fair. Agree to disagree?

 

[JollyYoshi]

One problem I see with BDSP is that it was basically priced as if it was Pokémon Legends Arceus, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Mario Odyssey, BOTW, etc. Some flat-out remasters are or just barely are worth $60. I feel like BDSP should’ve been $50 (at MSRP) at most when you really look at it.

 

[Poke Dragon]

One problem I see with BDSP is that it was basically priced as if it was Pokémon Legends Arceus, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Mario Odyssey, BOTW, etc. Some flat-out remasters are or just barely are worth $60. I feel like BDSP should’ve been $50 (at MSRP) at most when you really look at it.

Better yet, they should've just cost as much as DP when they first came out on the DS. I have bought DLCs that are worth much more than BDSP (like Octo Expansion for Splatoon 2, which adds an entire single-player campaign).

 

[Zexy]

Both Johto and Unova are regions with rich past that would make for great candidates both for an ILCA remake and for a PLA style game. It is about time we see the original Kyurem, and since Black/White 3 or Gray are not happening, perhaps this is what is needed. Johto needs some rework with the level curve but is otherwise fine, although getting to see the birth of Raikou, Entei and Suicune in game would be awesome, especially if they originally were past regional variant Eeveelutions.

 

[Kallyle]

All I'm saying is that remakes should be accepted, even with their faults.

I accept the fact they exist. However, this doesn’t mean I have to like the direction they went in, even with several factors regarding limited dev time and story restrictions. For one thing, there were several improvements Platinum made that weren’t an expanded roster and the Battle Frontier:

• The Pokétch’s interface; would it really kill them to have two buttons that go back and forth between the different apps?
• Stark Mountain could have had textures akin to Platinum’s that actually make it look like a volcano. Surely such a purely aesthetic change wouldn’t change anything plot-wise, right?
• There was added dialogue between Prof. Rowan against the Team Galactic grunts in Jubilife. I don’t see why they couldn’t have added those lines in, as it didn’t have an affect on the plot; it was just a nice bit of characterization.
• The Team Galactic HQ should have had the interior of Platinum instead of keeping it like every other regular building.

Let’s also not forget that they neutered Super Contests to not just one move, but made them into a rhythm mini game where the Pokémon themselves don’t even move despite the fact they’re supposed to be dancing. And they for some reason kept the sheen thing as-is despite it all!