Speculation General Remake Discussion

[Bolt Strike]

I’m aware. Tell that to my 2017/18 self who was desperate for more Pokémon games lol.
I know ORAS didn’t have the Emerald content. It makes me sad, but I still fully accept it.

I take it you're a relatively younger fan that was not around for FRLG and HGSS then? Because I think most of the people that were used to older remakes never would've expected that in the first place. I did hear a few people here and there talk about wanting a WaterBlue version but it never materialized, and HGSS was too busy knocking it out of the park with Crystal content and so much more for anyone to say they wanted a Crystal remake. So after that point I think most of us felt we had a pretty good idea of what to expect from a remake and I don't think the thought of a Delta Emerald releasing even crossed our minds, most of us just expected ORAS to handle the Emerald content like HGSS did with Crystal.

Yeah, 6th gen was a sad time all around, it feels like a string of disappointments and missed opportunities and what we were left with felt mediocre. Even I never completely got over XY remaining a relatively barren game with almost no extra content, no third version or sequel to flesh it out, and ORAS not having Emerald content. Every time I look back to 6th gen all I can think about is what might've been because what we actually got didn't impress me much.

 

[DigitalGen6]

I take it you're a relatively younger fan that was not around for FRLG and HGSS then? Because I think most of the people that were used to older remakes never would've expected that in the first place.

I was around for HGSS (along with most of the fourth gen) but it took me until around a few months after XY to get into Pokémon for the first time.

I did hear a few people here and there talk about wanting a WaterBlue version but it never materialized, and HGSS was too busy knocking it out of the park with Crystal content and so much more for anyone to say they wanted a Crystal remake. So after that point I think most of us felt we had a pretty good idea of what to expect from a remake and I don't think the thought of a Delta Emerald releasing even crossed our minds, most of us just expected ORAS to handle the Emerald content like HGSS did with Crystal.

Yeah, and they totally said, “I can’t wait until the Pokémon WaterBlue game drops in 2011!” /s
And in all seriousness, I agree. HGSS was so well done, it’s like we don’t even want a Crystal remake at this point considering how great the Johto remakes were.

Yeah, 6th gen was a sad time all around, it feels like a string of disappointments and missed opportunities and what we were left with felt mediocre. Even I never completely got over XY remaining a relatively barren game with almost no extra content, no third version or sequel to flesh it out, and ORAS not having Emerald content. Every time I look back to 6th gen all I can think about is what might've been because what we actually got didn't impress me much.

Same, actually. No Pokémon Z, no X2Y2 (you’ve probably already heard me say it, but X2 and Y2 were trademarked, and planned at some point; I found that out at TCRF. I think I found OR2/AS2 or something there too, but idek), no ORAS with Emerald content. It’s sad. I like Gen 6 but at the same time, I’m also disappointed. At least (in my opinion at least) the anime was a bit better, more or less.

 

[Poke Dragon]

In fact, I'd argue that the entire 3DS line of Pokemon games just wasn't that great, too much experimentation is the problem here. That and also because they are so slow to adapt to new Nintendo consoles, which is a part of the problem because it gives them less time to actually develop the games properly.

If Gen 7 was completely on the Switch instead of mostly on the 3DS, so many problems could've been avoided since Gen 6 would get the Kalos sequels it needed, Sun and Moon as well as their Ultra versions wouldn't have been such laggy games when it comes to having more than 2 Pokemon on one screen, which would've led to an overall better quality for both generations.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention that Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon would've been DLCs had Sun and Moon released for the Switch rather than the 3DS.

 

[Norzan]

Well, the bad Pokedex and the Gym/Elite 4 roster issues couldn't just be solved by shoving them into the post game

Never said to put it in the postgame, i said to have everything from Platinum outside of Giratina showing up at the end and that includes the better pokedex and gym leaders rosters from platinum.

 

[RileyXY1]

BDSP also made the E4 unreasonably hard, mostly to compensate for the always on EXP Share and the affection boots being tied to happiness, but still.

 

[DigitalGen6]

BDSP also made the E4 unreasonably hard, mostly to compensate for the always on EXP Share and the affection boots being tied to happiness, but still.

Then, I guess I’m gonna have to train really hard if I want to defeat the E4 and Cynthia.
How hard is Cynthia anyway? That’s what I have always wondered.

 

[RileyXY1]

Then, I guess I’m gonna have to train really hard if I want to defeat the E4 and Cynthia.
How hard is Cynthia anyway? That’s what I have always wondered.

Basically they decided to give all the E4 Pokémon held items and they basically behave like competitive Pokémon players.

 

[Pigrider09]

No, no more Sinnoh, we already got out in 2022 and it took away focus from Galar which needed it more (and no, I’m not saying I hate Sinnoh, it’s one of my favorite regions).

Ha Ha. I know we got a sinnoh overload and probably shouldn't get another game in that region until the 2030s. I was referring to the meme where extreme lengths were taken to predict a sinnoh game. I too love the sinnoh region and hope it gets a modern open world game (far) in the future

 

[RileyXY1]

It's weird that we could potentially have a game where Pikachu is completely unobtainable. Not even by transferring from another game. I'm of course talking about possible Unova remakes and how there's a good chance that the Pokémon obtainable in the originals (without trading) are the only Pokémon physically in the game.

 

[Zexy]

It's weird that we could potentially have a game where Pikachu is completely unobtainable. Not even by transferring from another game. I'm of course talking about possible Unova remakes and how there's a good chance that the Pokémon obtainable in the originals (without trading) are the only Pokémon physically in the game.

I doubt they will dare that. Event distribution, transfer, maybe one gift in Castelia City if they really need to think of something.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I doubt they will dare that. Event distribution, transfer, maybe one gift in Castelia City if they really need to think of something.

I could actually see them limited BW remakes to just BW2's 300 (with only BW1's 156 in the main game and the BW2 additions in post game). It'd be extremely disappointing and yet another new low for remakes, but I can see them doing it. They've pretty much been allergic to including more than 400 Pokemon in a game now aside from DLC additions (think about it, regional dex size was mostly increasing over time but plateaued in 6th gen at 450, then after a slight drop to 300 in SM, USUM, base SwSh, and base SV were all 400), so I strongly suspect that they won't even be able to include the 649 Pokemon from 5th gen's National Dex and simply choose to cut it to BW2's 300. Pikachu not being part of those 300 is an interesting quirk, part of a bold move to make 5th gen feel like a soft reboot for the series, but seeing as how they don't want to make any significant changes to remakes anymore I could see them just ignoring Pikachu simply because they don't want to deviate from the originals like that and Pikachu being weirdly absent is part of the original experience.

 

[Poke Dragon]

I don't know why they are so afraid of having 800+ Pokemon accessible in a single set (or game). They don't necessarily have to have Pokedex entries in the game.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don't know why they are so afraid of having 800+ Pokemon accessible in a single set (or game). They don't necessarily have to have Pokedex entries in the game.

The Pokedex entries aren't the issue, those are just short blurbs that probably take them like, 5 minutes each. It's the Pokemon models that are the issue. They want to keep updating them because of constantly improving hardware and want them to look more detailed and realistic. And updating 3D models is notoriously more time consuming than 2D sprites, so doing so for 800+ Pokemon is a serious timesink and I don't think that's a realistic expectation (name another HD 3D game with 800+ character models).

 

[DigitalGen6]

The Pokedex entries aren't the issue, those are just short blurbs that probably take them like, 5 minutes each. It's the Pokemon models that are the issue. They want to keep updating them because of constantly improving hardware and want them to look more detailed and realistic. And updating 3D models is notoriously more time consuming than 2D sprites, so doing so for 800+ Pokemon is a serious timesink and I don't think that's a realistic expectation (name another HD 3D game with 800+ character models).

Pokémon Masters
And huh, no wonder I can’t use a Piplup in SwSh or Tepig or whatever in SV

 

[Greninjaman]

The Pokedex entries aren't the issue, those are just short blurbs that probably take them like, 5 minutes each. It's the Pokemon models that are the issue. They want to keep updating them because of constantly improving hardware and want them to look more detailed and realistic. And updating 3D models is notoriously more time consuming than 2D sprites, so doing so for 800+ Pokemon is a serious timesink and I don't think that's a realistic expectation (name another HD 3D game with 800+ character models).

Plus, would the switch be able to handle all 900+ Pokemon? If they were 2D Sprites, then maybe.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Plus, would the switch be able to handle all 900+ Pokemon? If they were 2D Sprites, then maybe.

The Switch is far more capable than the 3DS, if it can run huge open-world games with no crashes, then it sure can handle 900+ Pokemon in a single game.

 

[Greninjaman]

The Switch is far more capable than the 3DS, if it can run huge open-world games with no crashes, then it sure can handle 900+ Pokemon in a single game.

I agree with you about the switch being better, but I think having better models for a small group of Pokemon is better than having poor quality models for all of them. Why upgrade models for Pokemon that aren't even in the game?

 

[Norzan]

but I think having better models for a small group of Pokemon is better than having poor quality models for all of them

Why can't we have good models for every pokemon? Why does it have to be a compromise?

 

[DigitalGen6]

Why can't we have good models for every pokemon? Why does it have to be a compromise?

Yeah, it doesn’t have to be a compromise. We should be able to have good models for like, all Pokémon and not shut any out (and now I am going to sob about not having Tepig in Pokémon Scarlet-)

 

[Bolt Strike]

Pokémon Masters
And huh, no wonder I can’t use a Piplup in SwSh or Tepig or whatever in SV

I don't think Masters has quite gotten to 800, but even if it has, Masters is relatively cheap and simplistic, with the environments being static backgrounds that have little to no interaction while the bulk of the gameplay is in battle. I was thinking more along the lines of like... a 3D adventure game on console or PC.

Plus, would the switch be able to handle all 900+ Pokemon? If they were 2D Sprites, then maybe.

The total number of assets in the game has little to nothing to do with performance, that's more an issue with how many are rendered on screen at a time (which is why we don't have Triple, Rotation, and Horde battles anymore, the 3DS couldn't handle more than 4 Pokemon on the screen at once).

Why can't we have good models for every pokemon? Why does it have to be a compromise?

Because it's not feasible to create 800+ 3D models in 3-5 years. It might not even be feasible in 6-8 years. The sheer number is just not humanly possible without spending a ludicrous amount of time on them, 3D models take more time to render than 2D sprites, and we have twice as many Pokemon now as we did before the jump to 3D. That means they have 4 times the workload, maybe more.