Generation IV Remake Speculation

[Bolt Strike]

The only new addition I could see to the Sinnoh Dex is Sylveon, since Eevee was in the Platinum Sinnoh Dex and all its evolutions were as well. Platinum already had a relatively big regional dex, I don't see the need to add to it. Just do what they did for Hoenn in ORAS, add evolutionary relatives (in this case, sadly, there's only one).

1. Platinum's dex isn't "relatively big" by modern standards, dex size has been creeping up larger and larger over time. GSCHGSS had the largest regional dex for a while with 251 (256 in HGSS), but then BW2, XY, SM, and USUM have all gone bigger than that. SwSh's dex is probably going to be massive too because of Dexit, probably even record breaking (It wouldn't be too unreasonable to expect something in the range of 500-600). Sinnoh's is actually slightly below average now.
2. Remember that now everything that's in the game needs to be in the Sinnoh Dex. Those 211 Pokemon would be the only ones you can catch period. That would cause a lot of major issues such as a lack of Pokemon to fill in post game areas, a lack of variety of Pokemon to use in competitive, lack of team building options, and more controversy in the fanbase.
3. Under the current policy, DPPt's Sinnoh Dexes would both be around 450 since there were over 200 additional Pokemon in the post game. So this game would be significantly worse than the original in terms of available Pokemon.
4. If you're bringing up Hoenn comparisons, Hoenn only added 9 Pokemon to its regional dex but it also added 244 Pokemon to its post game. So under this policy the Hoenn Dex would be 480 in ORAS.

211 just isn't enough for a satisfying roster and it would be the least amount of Pokemon we've had in every game except RBY, RS, and LGPE (and keep in mind that 2 of those are older than the original DPPt and had less Pokemon to choose from and the third was banking on nostalgia). So I can't see them doing that. There's just too many issues with too little for them to gain.

 

[Tood]

As far as new additions go, I figure they'd have to also add the gen 5 and 6 fossils to the game, assuming the Underground makes it into a remake somewhat intact.

Regarding Wild areas, perhaps they can expand already existing routes and landmarks and turn them into Wild Area-like spaces as well. Like Eterna Forest, the Great Marsh, Mt. Coronet, the route leading to Pal Park south of Sandgem, the snow-filled route on the way to Snowpoint... I don't want them to slap some big empty field in the middle of Sinnoh and call that the Wild Area. Sinnoh has a decent amount of variety in its locations, and I can't see why they couldn't just make several of them around the region.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

1. Platinum's dex isn't "relatively big" by modern standards, dex size has been creeping up larger and larger over time. GSCHGSS had the largest regional dex for a while with 251 (256 in HGSS), but then BW2, XY, SM, and USUM have all gone bigger than that. SwSh's dex is probably going to be massive too because of Dexit, probably even record breaking (It wouldn't be too unreasonable to expect something in the range of 500-600). Sinnoh's is actually slightly below average now.
2. Remember that now everything that's in the game needs to be in the Sinnoh Dex. Those 211 Pokemon would be the only ones you can catch period. That would cause a lot of major issues such as a lack of Pokemon to fill in post game areas, a lack of variety of Pokemon to use in competitive, lack of team building options, and more controversy in the fanbase.
3. Under the current policy, DPPt's Sinnoh Dexes would both be around 450 since there were over 200 additional Pokemon in the post game. So this game would be significantly worse than the original in terms of available Pokemon.
4. If you're bringing up Hoenn comparisons, Hoenn only added 9 Pokemon to its regional dex but it also added 244 Pokemon to its post game. So under this policy the Hoenn Dex would be 480 in ORAS.

211 just isn't enough for a satisfying roster and it would be the least amount of Pokemon we've had in every game except RBY, RS, and LGPE (and keep in mind that 2 of those are older than the original DPPt and had less Pokemon to choose from and the third was banking on nostalgia). So I can't see them doing that. There's just too many issues with too little for them to gain.

I guess I need to clarify, I never meant that ONLY Sinnoh Dex Pokemon should be in the game period, and no, they don't HAVE to put all Pokemon available in the Sinnoh Dex. Even in the Gen 7 games, Pokemon not in the Alola Dex simply aren't registered to the Pokedex and don't have a visible Pokedex number. I think quite a few games have done this but that's the example that comes to mind first. 211 Pokemon in the game? No. 211 Pokemon in the main game? Yes. 400ish including post-game? Yes. If they HAVE to buff the regional dex to that it'll feel very forced and artificial since 400 Pokemon aren't meant to be in the main story. Adding 200ish as unregistered Pokemon would be fine, however.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I guess I need to clarify, I never meant that ONLY Sinnoh Dex Pokemon should be in the game period, and no, they don't HAVE to put all Pokemon available in the Sinnoh Dex. Even in the Gen 7 games, Pokemon not in the Alola Dex simply aren't registered to the Pokedex and don't have a visible Pokedex number. I think quite a few games have done this but that's the example that comes to mind first. 211 Pokemon in the game? No. 211 Pokemon in the main game? Yes. 400ish including post-game? Yes. If they HAVE to buff the regional dex to that it'll feel very forced and artificial since 400 Pokemon aren't meant to be in the main story. Adding 200ish as unregistered Pokemon would be fine, however.

GameFreak’s new policy is that Pokemon not in the regional dex won’t appear, period, though. So anything appearing in the Sinnoh remakes will be in the Dex.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I guess I need to clarify, I never meant that ONLY Sinnoh Dex Pokemon should be in the game period, and no, they don't HAVE to put all Pokemon available in the Sinnoh Dex. Even in the Gen 7 games, Pokemon not in the Alola Dex simply aren't registered to the Pokedex and don't have a visible Pokedex number. I think quite a few games have done this but that's the example that comes to mind first. 211 Pokemon in the game? No. 211 Pokemon in the main game? Yes. 400ish including post-game? Yes. If they HAVE to buff the regional dex to that it'll feel very forced and artificial since 400 Pokemon aren't meant to be in the main story. Adding 200ish as unregistered Pokemon would be fine, however.

Yes, they do have to put all of the available Pokemon in the Sinnoh Dex. Game Freak has stated that going forward, only Pokemon appearing in the regional dex will be programmed into the game. So those 200ish post game Pokemon have to be in the Sinnoh Dex to be usable. The regional dexes don't simply define which Pokemon will be usable in the main story anymore, they define all of the Pokemon that are in the game altogether.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Yes, they do have to put all of the available Pokemon in the Sinnoh Dex. Game Freak has stated that going forward, only Pokemon appearing in the regional dex will be programmed into the game. So those 200ish post game Pokemon have to be in the Sinnoh Dex to be usable. The regional dexes don't simply define which Pokemon will be usable in the main story anymore, they define all of the Pokemon that are in the game altogether.

If you say so bud.

 

[RileyXY1]

There's also the problem of bloating the dex, especially considering that Sinnoh was built with the DS in mind, not the Switch, and many of the old methods of acquiring non-National dex Pokemon, such as PokeRadar and the Dongle method, will be gone.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

There's also the problem of bloating the dex, especially considering that Sinnoh was built with the DS in mind, not the Switch, and many of the old methods of acquiring non-National dex Pokemon, such as PokeRadar and the Dongle method, will be gone.

If they add the external method Pokemon to the Sinnoh dex itself things can work, and new methods can be created.

I remember @Bolt the Cat making elaborate posts on increasing availability in a balanced manner with each and every area in Sinnoh.

 

[RileyXY1]

If they add the external method Pokemon to the Sinnoh dex itself things can work, and new methods can be created.

I remember @Bolt the Cat making elaborate posts on increasing availability in a balanced manner with each and every area in Sinnoh.

That would essentially be the equivalent of having the Sinnoh dex contain every single Pokemon that existed at the time of the original games.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

That would essentially be the equivalent of having the Sinnoh dex contain every single Pokemon that existed at the time of the original games.

I don’t remember the exact numbers, but how is it different from the extra Pokemon being obtainable but not just in Sinnoh dex?

(For example, purely hypothetical numbers)

Original scenario: 200 Pokemon in Dex. 50 out of Dex Pokemon: Total=250

Post Dexit Scenario: 250 Pokemon in Dex: Total= 250

No functional difference. The numbers on a larger scale would be the Platinum remakes.

“The Dex” is now just a list of Pokemon available in a game, irrespective of the methods for obtaining.

 

[Bolt Strike]

There's also the problem of bloating the dex

Again, 211 is fairly small by modern standards, so how is that "bloating"?

especially considering that Sinnoh was built with the DS in mind, not the Switch

Despite being made for the DS, Sinnoh is one of the largest regions in the series, especially in terms of the number of areas. There's 30 routes, the second most in a single region in the series, several of which have N/S or E/W halves with different distributions, a slew of caves and dungeons, and one of the largest batches of post game areas in the series. And they didn't exactly fill these areas to the brim either, a lot of areas have repeated species, so there's plenty of ways they could space out the distribution.

and many of the old methods of acquiring non-National dex Pokemon, such as PokeRadar and the Dongle method, will be gone.

We've been over this before, the Pokeradar doesn't need to go just because Pokemon show up in the overworld. Pokeradar Pokemon could just appear in rustling grass or pop out when you use the Pokeradar. The only method they can't reuse is the Dongle, but they could come up with a new method to compensate for that if needed.

That would essentially be the equivalent of having the Sinnoh dex contain every single Pokemon that existed at the time of the original games.

DPPt practically did have all of the National Dex Pokemon obtainable. You could obtain 451/493 of the existing Pokemon at the time with just those three games.

I don’t remember the exact numbers, but how is it different from the extra Pokemon being obtainable but not just in Sinnoh dex?

(For example, purely hypothetical numbers)

Original scenario: 200 Pokemon in Dex. 50 out of Dex Pokemon: Total=250

Post Dexit Scenario: 250 Pokemon in Dex: Total= 250

No functional difference. The numbers on a larger scale would be the Platinum remakes.

“The Dex” is now just a list of Pokemon available in a game, irrespective of the methods for obtaining.

I did an exact count. Here's my past posts for reference:

All right, so to drive the point home, I did an analysis of what some of the older dexes would be like if this policy were in place back when they were released:

FRLG: 151 Pokemon in the original dex + 71 Pokemon in post game = 222 Pokmeon
Emerald: 202 Pokemon in the original dex + 34 Pokemon in post game = 236 Pokemon
DP: 151 Pokemon in the original dex + 294 Pokemon in post game + 4 Pokemon needed to obtain 4th gen Pokemon (the Regis and Tangela) = 449 Pokemon
Platinum: 210 Pokemon in the original dex + 235 Pokemon in post game = 445 Pokemon (If you're wondering why Platinum is actually less, it's because the Trapinch lines and Clamperl lines are unavailable. Add those in and it would be 451)
HGSS: 256 Pokemon in the original dex + 198 Pokemon in post game = 454 Pokemon
BW: 156 Pokemon in the original dex + 313 Pokemon in post game = 469 Pokemon
BW2: 300 Pokemon in the original dex + 190 Pokemon in post game = 490 Pokemon
XY: 454 Pokemon in the original dex + 142 Pokemon in post game = 596 Pokemon
ORAS: 211 Pokemon in the original dex + 269 Pokemon in post game = 480 Pokemon
SM: 302 Pokemon in the original dex + 66 Pokemon in post game = 388 Pokemon
USUM: 403 Pokemon in the original dex +164 Pokemon in post game = 567 Pokemon

400-500 is about average for the total Pokemon in a game, so that should be the expected range for the Sinnoh Dex.

You know what? Screw it. I'm going to expand it to 500. And because a certain someone is concerned about the distribution, I'll give the encounter methods too.

Spoiler

Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot- Rt. 229
Rattata/Raticate- Rt. 225, Rt. 226
Spearow/Fearow- Rt. 225, Rt. 226
Ekans/Arbok- Rt. 212S (Pokeradar)
Igglybuff/Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff- Trophy Garden
Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume/Bellossom- Rt. 230
Paras/Parasect- Great Marsh
Venonat/Venomoth- Rt. 229
Meowth/Persian- Trophy Garden
Bellsprout/Weepinbell/Victreebel- Rt. 230
Krabby/Kingler- Rt. 226
Voltorb/Electrode- Fuego Ironworks (Pokeradar)
Exeggcute/Exeggutor- Rt. 230
Cubone/Marowak- Rt. 228
Koffing/Weezing- Fuego Ironworks (Pokeradar)
Smoochum/Jynx- Snowpoint Temple
Pinsir- Rt. 229
Tauros- Rt. 210S (Pokeradar)
Lapras- Victory Road (post game area)
Ditto- Rt. 218
Omanyte/Omastar- Sinnoh Underground
Kabuto/Kabutops- Sinnoh Underground
Aerodactyl- Sinnoh Underground
Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres- roaming legendaries
Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite- Celestic Town
Chikorita/Bayleef/Meganium- Gift post game (maybe from the Hiker in Hearthome)
Cyndaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion- Gift post game (maybe from the Hiker in Hearthome)
Totodile/Croconaw/Feraligatr- Gift post game (maybe from the Hiker in Hearthome)
Ledyba/Ledian- Rt. 229
Spinarak/Ariados- Rt. 229
Natu/Xatu- Rt. 211E (Pokeradar)
Hoppip/Skiploom/Jumpluff- Rt. 205 (Pokeradar)
Mareep/Flaafy/Ampharos- Valley Windworks (Pokeradar)
Sunkern/Sunflora- Rt. 204N (Pokeradar)
Snubbull/Granbull- Trophy Garden
Slugma/Magcargo- Stark Mountain Interior
Skarmory- Rt. 227, Stark Mountain Exterior
Smeargle- Rt. 209 (Pokeradar)
Miltank- Rt. 210S (Pokeradar)
Celebi- Event Pokemon
Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile- Gift post game
Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken- Gift post game
Mudkip/Marshtomp/Swampert- Gift post game
Shroomish/Breloom- Great Marsh
Skitty/Delcatty- Trophy Garden
Sableye- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Mawile- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Aron/Lairon/Aggron- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Gulpin/Swalot- Great Marsh
Volbeat/Illumise- Rt. 229
Numel/Camerupt- Stark Mountain Exterior, Stark Mountain Interior
Lunatone/Solrock- Lake Verity, Lake Valor, Lake Acuity (Pokeradar)
Trapinch/Vibrava/Flygon- Rt. 228
Cacnea/Cacturne- Rt. 228
Lileep/Cradily- Sinnoh Underground
Anorith/Armaldo- Sinnoh Underground
Kecleon- Great Marsh
Shuppet/Banette- Rt. 225, Rt. 226
Spheal/Sealeo/Walrein- Lake Acuity (Pokeradar)
Bagon/Shelgon/Salamence- Rt. 210N (Pokeradar)
Regirock- Rock Peak Ruins
Regice- Iceberg Ruins
Registeel- Iron Head Ruins
Jirachi- Event Pokemon
Deoxys- Event Pokemon
Regigigas- Snowpoint Temple
Heatran- Stark Mountain
Cresselia- Full Moon Island
Phione- Breed Manaphy
Darkrai- New Moon Island
Shaymin- Flower Paradise
Arceus- Beginning Dimension
Snivy/Servine/Serperior- Gift Pokemon
Tepig/Pignite/Emboar- Gift Pokemon
Oshawott/Dewott/Samurott- Gift Pokemon
Purrloin/Liepard- Old Chateau (Pokeradar)
Roggenrola/Boldore/Gigalith- Oreburgh Gate, Ravaged Path (Pokeradar)
Drillbur/Excadrill- Oreburgh Mine, Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Audino- Trophy Garden
Timburr/Gurdurr/Conkeldurr- Oreburgh Mine, Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Tympole/Palpitoad/Seismitoad- Rt. 212S (Pokeradar)
Cottonee/Whimsicott- Rt. 224
Petilil/Lilligant- Rt. 224
Darumaka/Darmanitan- Stark Mountain
Dwebble/Crustle- Rt. 224
Yamask/Cofagrigus- Turnback Cave
Tirtouga/Carracosta- Sinnoh Underground
Archen/Archeops- Sinnoh Underground
Zorua/Zoroark- Old Chateau (Pokeradar)
Foongus/Amoonguss- Great Marsh
Karrablast/Escavalier- Great Marsh
Frillish/Jellicent- Sendoff Spring (Surfing)
Axew/Fraxure/Haxorus- Oreburgh Gate, Ravaged Path (Pokeradar)
Klink/Klang/Klinklang- Fuego Ironworks (Pokeradar)
Litwick/Lampent/Chandelure- Turnback Cave
Elgyem/Beheeyem- Rt. 211E (Pokeradar
Cubchoo/Beartic- Rt. 216, Rt. 217, Acuity Lakefront (Pokeradar)
Crygonoal- Rt. 216, Rt. 217, Acuity Lakefront (Pokeradar)
Shelmet/Accelgor- Great Marsh
Stunfisk- Great Marsh
Golett/Golurk- Snowpoint Temple
Druddigon- Victory Road (post game area)
Rufflet/Braviary- Rt. 226
Vullaby/Mandibuzz- Rt. 226
Heatmor- Stark Mountain Exterior
Durant- Stark Mountain Extreior
Larvesta/Volcarona- Stark Mountain Exterior (Pokeradar)
Reshiram/Zekrom- Celestic Town
Kyurem- Mt. Coronet
Bunnelby/Diggersby- Oreburgh Gate, Ravaged Path (Pokeradar)
Fletchling/Fletchinder/Talonflame- Rt. 227
Litleo/Pyroar- Rt. 211W, Rt.211E (Pokeradar)
Flabebe/Floette/Florges- Floaroma Meadow (overworld encounter post game)
Furfrou- Trophy Garden
Skiddo/Gogoat- Rt. 210S, Rt. 210N (Pokeradar)
Helioptile/Heliolisk- Valley Windworks (Pokeradar)
Tyrunt/Tyrantrum- Sinnoh Underground
Amaura/Aurorus- Sinnoh Underground
Binacle/Barbaracle- Rt. 224
Carbink- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Phantump/Trevenant- Eterna Forest (Pokeradar)
Goomy/Sliggoo/Goodra- Rt. 212S (Pokeradar)
Noibat/Noivern- Victory Road (post game area)
Diancie- Event Pokemon
Hoopa- Event Pokemon
Volcanion- Event Pokemon
Cutiefly/Ribombee- Rt. 205 (Pokeradar)
Crabrawler/Crabominable- Rt. 226
Rockruff/Lycanroc- Rt. 214 (Pokeradar)
Salandit/Salazzle- Stark Mountain Interior
Stufful/Bewear- Trophy Garden
Passimian- Rt. 229
Oranguru- Rt. 229
Sandygast/Palossand- Rt. 213 (Pokeradar)
Type:Null/Silvally- Gift from Saturn post game
Minior- Mt. Coronet (Pokeradar)
Mimikyu- Old Chateau (Pokeradar)
Drampa- Mt. Coronet (Pokeradar)
Cosmog/Cosmoem/Solgaleo/Lunala- Spear Pillar
Nihilego- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 213
Buzzwole- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 225
Pheromosa- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 228
Xurkitree- Ultra Wormhole in Valley Windworks
Kartana- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 224
Celesteela- Ultra Wormhole in Fuego Ironworks
Guzzlord- Ultra Wormhole in Ravaged Path
Necrozma- Spear Pillar after bringing Solgaleo or Lunala
Poipole/Nagadel- Gift from Ultra Recon Squad
Blacephalon- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 209
Stakataka- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 212N

 

[RileyXY1]

Again, 211 is fairly small by modern standards, so how is that "bloating"?

No, throwing 400+ Pokemon into Sinnoh without putting a vast majority of them into various methods of obtainment is bloating. The Sinnoh region was not made for this many Pokemon, and doing this would require a complete redesign of the region to better suit Sword & Shield's standards.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

No, throwing 400+ Pokemon into Sinnoh without putting a vast majority of them into various methods of obtainment is bloating. The Sinnoh region was not made for this many Pokemon, and doing this would require a complete redesign of the region to better suit Sword & Shield's standards.

I don’t even know how can you say this after a literal comprehensive list of every Pokemon with the counter rate was provided...

That’s a way to just dismiss a post that literally oozes effort. I doubt any one of us can come up with such a high-effort post just for the sake of a discussion. There’s also the decent possibility that the Sinnoh region will have a bigger scale in accordance with Sword and Shield's style.

No offence, just an observation but your posts literally seem like fear mongering about the Sinnoh remakes; (paraphrasing)
"The games will have an extremely restricted Pokedex."
"The gyms will all get designed into stadiums"
"Do you want Sinnoh to become a Galar clone?"
"You'll lose the gym leaders designs and elite four entirely"
"Sinnoh will lose it’s charm."

And most of all, you seem to be arguing that Sinnoh remakes won’t even be a thing.

I hope it isn’t accusatory, but I'm just curious why are you so pessimistic an for propagating an aura of fear and hysteria over literal hypothetical games.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Sinnoh has many environments suited to Pokemon from Gen 5 onwards, like Palpitoad being in the Great Marsh and Pyukumku on various beaches throughout the region. Adding Pokemon that weren't in the original Sinnoh Pokedex is totally possible and even better than leaving it barren by today's standards. Plus, if they want to keep full compatibility, that would mean they would add even more Pokemon to the Galar Dex. The more Pokemon available, the better, even in remakes.

Almost forgot to mention Deerling, the west side could have the Winter and Autumn forms while the east side could have the Summer and Spring forms.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Not to mention creative features like Island Scans and friend safari: a version could be created for Sinnoh.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

Another thing that makes me dislike dexit is how it made us fans think its necessary to squeeze in as many pokemon as possible into the region. I feel like it takes away from the uniqueness of each region in a way.

 

[RileyXY1]

Another thing that makes me dislike dexit is how it made us fans think its necessary to squeeze in as many pokemon as possible into the region. I feel like it takes away from the uniqueness of each region in a way.

And also now, certain popular Pokemon like Charizard, Pikachu, Eevee, Lucario, etc. will now be shoved into every regional dex from this point forward.

 

[prog rocker]

And also now, certain popular Pokemon like Charizard, Pikachu, Eevee, Lucario, etc. will now be shoved into every regional dex from this point forward.

It's not like it wasn't going to happen even without Dexit...

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

At least with the Curry concept, we now know how the Poffin system will work.

 

[Bolt Strike]

No, throwing 400+ Pokemon into Sinnoh without putting a vast majority of them into various methods of obtainment is bloating. The Sinnoh region was not made for this many Pokemon, and doing this would require a complete redesign of the region to better suit Sword & Shield's standards.

No, no it doesn't. Again, Sinnoh is one of the larger regions in the game in terms of number of areas. It has 30 routes- which is the second most in the series (remember that most regions only have about 20ish). It also has a ton of caves. And if you look at the encounter tables, they aren't really filled to the brim with unique species. There's so many Pokemon that are repeated throughout the game. The usual suspects like Bidoof/Bibarel, Starly/Staravia, Zubat/Golbat, and Geodude/Graveler are everywhere, but there's even stuff like, Budew/Roselia and Meditite/Medicham that appear frequently. They could definitely trim some of that down to fit in more unique species without overloading the encounter rates.