• Hey guys! Have you heard? We now have popup
    Yes, Popups!
    messages for your forum posts. Learn more about it here!
  • To keep up with the hype driven by Sword and Shield's release, we are taking applications for new moderators in our Current Events: Sword and Shield as well as Anime and Manga sections. Applications are due by November 26th.

    For more information, see this thread.We hope you all consider joining our team!
  • We hope you're enjoying Sword and Shield so far! So that everyone can enjoy it and not be spoiled, please keep the all story spoilers and any images from the games in the appropriate sections or in spoiler tags until January 3rd.

    Since spoiler tags are not allowed in signatures, please do not put images from the games in your signature either. You can list the names of new Pokémon if you want to list your team in your signature.

Generation IV Remake Speculation

Will there be remakes in Gen VIII?


  • Total voters
    147
Only 79 new Pokemon?
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
559
What luxray need more than anything else is better physical stab.

Volt tackle would be a start.
 
Destroyer of Fairy, Steel and Ice types.
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
2,239
Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus should not be Ultra Beasts. Their dimensions is not the same as Ultra Space. I prefer they stay pokemon.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
1,220
What luxray need more than anything else is better physical stab.

Volt tackle would be a start.
thunder fang.

@mega converstation
There should be no megas in sinnoh unless its a sequel or are found underground or else people will get upset again with scyamores throwaway line.

Honestly even if gamefreak had intended to not remake hoenn yet (which they were it was in the works since 2012 right?) why include that line when they knw full well it'll be in future regions.

Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus should not be Ultra Beasts. Their dimensions is not the same as Ultra Space. I prefer they stay pokemon.
Ultra beasts are pokemon.

Stop being so close minded to everything :\ if nothing else its interesting in theory and it would explain were Arceus comes from.
 
Destroyer of Fairy, Steel and Ice types.
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
2,239
Ultra beasts are pokemon.

Stop being so close minded to everything :\ if nothing else its interesting in theory and it would explain were Arceus comes from.
Yes but they come from Ultra space. Those four don't. I am not being close minded, I am being realistic here.
 
Only 79 new Pokemon?
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
559
thunder fang.

@mega converstation
There should be no megas in sinnoh unless its a sequel or are found underground or else people will get upset again with scyamores throwaway line.

Honestly even if gamefreak had intended to not remake hoenn yet (which they were it was in the works since 2012 right?) why include that line when they knw full well it'll be in future regions.



Ultra beasts are pokemon.

Stop being so close minded to everything :\ if nothing else its interesting in theory and it would explain were Arceus comes from.
You think a 65 BP move is considered better STAB?

Before you bring up but wild charge! That's also not a good enough move. 90bp with recoil is also mediocre.
 
Memeber
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
762
Reaction score
405
Stop being so close minded to everything :\ if nothing else its interesting in theory and it would explain were Arceus comes from.
Yeah stop being closed minded, especially around the guy with a type advantage :p

Jokes aside. I agree that the Creation trio and Arceus should not be retconned into Ultra Beasts. For one thing, I think that would have the opposite effect by making the chicken and egg scenario even more apparent. For another thing, these three are pokemon with control over time and space, I think that would place them on a different level from the Pokemon world and Ultra Space.

With that said. I think incorporating the Ultra beasts in Sinnoh would be an interesting twist, and had wonder what might happen if Cyrus (who wants to eradicate all spirit) gets influenced by Nhielego (whose toxins remove inhibitions, leaving only base desires and instinct)
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
1,220
Yes but they come from Ultra space. Those four don't. I am not being close minded, I am being realistic here.
Close minded is not opening your mind to a possibility. Cosmog and the box legends despite being ultra beasts are pokemon legendary pokemon that come from another dimension. We don't know the dimension on the other side of palkia and dialgas worlds but we know they don't reside in sinnoh they reside in their dimensions, in sinnoh cyrus had to call them to our world and in oras they appear from hoopas hoops. Realistically its possible to even be ultra space as it was never exactly stated that it wasn't.
 
Destroyer of Fairy, Steel and Ice types.
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
2,239
Close minded is not opening your mind to a possibility. Cosmog and the box legends despite being ultra beasts are pokemon legendary pokemon that come from another dimension. We don't know the dimension on the other side of palkia and dialgas worlds but we know they don't reside in sinnoh they reside in their dimensions, in sinnoh cyrus had to call them to our world and in oras they appear from hoopas hoops. Realistically its possible to even be ultra space as it was never exactly stated that it wasn't.
Cosmog and it's evolutions are new pokemon. Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus are not so they should be changed that way. They are quite fine the way they are.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
1,220
Cosmog and it's evolutions are new pokemon. Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus are not so they should be changed that way. They are quite fine the way they are.
Alright, just saying it would be a unique way to tie it into gen 7...

Also off topic but can I ask why you're the destroyer of ice steel and fairy when dragon is weak to ice and fairy and resisted by steel?
 
Destroyer of Fairy, Steel and Ice types.
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
2,239
Alright, just saying it would be a unique way to tie it into gen 7...

Also off topic but can I ask why you're the destroyer of ice steel and fairy when dragon is weak to ice and fairy and resisted by steel?
Because I have Flamethrower and Flash Cannon at my disposal. My Arceus can have more than Dragon moves you know. Whatever gen 4 remakes brings, it is sure to be good.
 
Memeber
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
762
Reaction score
405
There is another possibility for a gen 7 tie in.

There is some stuff that pointed out that Aether Foundation traveled to Sinnoh for research on the Creation Trio (Specially Arceus for Type:Null and Palkia for its control over space, like for the same reason as Cosmog) Perhaps The Gen IIV remakes would serve as prequels of a sort to Aether's plot in SuMo. Showing what they were doing while researching the legendary pokemon there. And maybe with Lusamine working behind the scenes to use both the player characters and Team galactic to get to Palkia for an easy way to Ultra Space only to fail for some reason?
 
Last edited:
Am I getting dabbed on by a Stunfisk?
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
5,730
Reaction score
14,982
How would you guys feel about dialga palkia giratina and Arceus being retconned into ultra beasts? Maybe with a form that resembles the odd alien like designs like the ultra beasts we do know?
Anything that de-emphasizes their "divinity" and plays up their dimensional theme/alienness will get a very warm reception from me. So warm, that I'll be greeting it at the door with a cup of hot cocoa and offering to let it nestle down by my fireplace while I take its coat.

I really, really bloody hate "God Pokémon," and I really, really like Ultra Beasts.

Plus, it's a convenient way of explaining away the "lol but I thought Mew was the ancestor????" thing. It'd mean that Arceusfam aren't descended from Mew, but they didn't just pop out of thin air, either. It gives them some nice context. Although strictly speaking, there's no immediate reason to think that the claims about Arceus or Mew being the "progenitor" of Pokémon are necessarily true/accurate.

Although, what about Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf, and the Unown?

There is another possibility for a gen 7 tie in.

There is some stuff that pointed out that Aether Foundation traveled to Sinnoh for research on the Creation Trio (Specially Arceus for Type:Null and Palkia for its control over space, like for the same reason as Cosmog) Perhaps The Gen IIV remakes would serve as prequels of a sort to Aether's plot in SuMo. Showing what they were doing while researching the legendary pokemon there. And maybe with Lusamine working behind the scenes to use both the player characters and Team galactic to get to Palkia for an easy way to Ultra Space only to fail for some reason?
The Aether Foundation wasn't said to be researching Palkia. Burnet was, because its Dex entries mention other dimensions, and thats what she studies.
 
Last edited:
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
1,220
Anything that de-emphasizes their "divinity" and plays up their dimensional theme/alienness will get a very warm reception from me. So warm, that I'll be greeting it at the door with a cup of hot cocoa and offering to let it nestle down by my fireplace while I take its coat.

I really, really bloody hate "God Pokémon," and I really, really like Ultra Beasts.

Plus, it's a convenient way of explaining away the "lol but I thought Mew was the ancestor????" thing. It'd mean that Arceusfam aren't descended from Mew, but they didn't just pop out of thin air, either. It gives them some nice context. Although strictly speaking, there's no immediate reason to think that the claims about Arceus or Mew being the "progenitor" of Pokémon are necessarily true/accurate.

Although, what about Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf, and the Unown?



The Aether Foundation wasn't said to be researching Palkia. Burnet was, because its Dex entries mention other dimensions, and thats what she studies.
Mew and Arceus argument is solved already, first Mew doesn't learn any of their moves so it's not their ancestor.

Secondly God and common ancestor are different things Arceus would be God Mew would be Adam/ape that evolves into the other common Pokemon the other legends aren't related to Mew (save mewtwo and maybe ditto but he isn't a legend)
 
Destroyer of Fairy, Steel and Ice types.
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
2,239
Anything that de-emphasizes their "divinity" and plays up their dimensional theme/alienness will get a very warm reception from me. So warm, that I'll be greeting it at the door with a cup of hot cocoa and offering to let it nestle down by my fireplace while I take its coat.

I really, really bloody hate "God Pokémon," and I really, really like Ultra Beasts.

Plus, it's a convenient way of explaining away the "lol but I thought Mew was the ancestor????" thing. It'd mean that Arceusfam aren't descended from Mew, but they didn't just pop out of thin air, either. It gives them some nice context. Although strictly speaking, there's no immediate reason to think that the claims about Arceus or Mew being the "progenitor" of Pokémon are necessarily true/accurate.

Although, what about Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf, and the Unown?



The Aether Foundation wasn't said to be researching Palkia. Burnet was, because its Dex entries mention other dimensions, and thats what she studies.
Sorry but Ultra Beasts have nothing on Arceus and the others. I have belief that nothing will de-emphasizes their divinity in any way.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
1,220
Sorry but Ultra Beasts have nothing on Arceus and the others. I have belief that nothing will de-emphasizes their divinity in any way.
Right now this is 100% true but the question is if it is retconned.
retcon
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.

For example if you watch dragon Ball at all, vegito was said to be a permanent fusion and randomly unfused inside of buu, but in super it's retconned to an hour and explains their fission in DBZ it's a retcon but within the plot it still works under previously established events.

Same could be true IF gamefreak retconned dilaga and palkia into ubs since we have a case of legendary Pokemon still being ubs (cosmog-sol/Luna) and since they come from a different dimension we know nothing about it could work with the definition I gave above.

Know this is just a what if we're discussing for fun there's no need to just shoot everything down as not happening when we can have fun discussing the possibility.
 
Young Battle Trainer
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
6,333
I found another hint for Sinnoh remakes! And this time, it's on the Pokemon Center website, which is selling pins of all three stages of the Sinnoh starters. The description for them says that they are ready for a new adventure. Coincidence?
 
Am I getting dabbed on by a Stunfisk?
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
5,730
Reaction score
14,982
Mew and Arceus argument is solved already, first Mew doesn't learn any of their moves so it's not their ancestor.

Secondly God and common ancestor are different things Arceus would be God Mew would be Adam/ape that evolves into the other common Pokemon the other legends aren't related to Mew (save mewtwo and maybe ditto but he isn't a legend)
I realize that it can be "solved" simply by saying, "lol well Arceus probably just came first anyway, duh." But retconning Arceus to be an Ultra Beast (or Ultra Beast-adjacent) would provide a solution that's less of a shrug, and has more significance within the setting.

For my part, I don't really believe the claims about either of them - Mew obviously cannot, in fact, use every move (which was the in-universe scientists' original basis for the theory of it being an ancestor), and they certainly wouldn't have had access to Pokémon like Groudon or Dialga, which would make those sorts of Pokémon into unaccountable variables. Likewise, the myth about Arceus is from eons ago. There's really no way for anybody to prove that it created the universe. I think it's entirely possible that perhaps there were ancient people who witnessed its ability to create life (which as we see in HGSS, it does with the aid of the Unown) and simply inferred from there that it must have been some kind of god because wow, look at those powers.

But nevertheless, I'm cooking up a theory. As we all know, in DPP, the Plates that change Arceus's type all contain inscriptions that recount Sinnoh's creation myth. And in that myth, of course, is this mysterious line: "When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate. The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."

It's been long-speculated as to what these "defeated giants" could be, especially since Arceus is purported to have "breathed alone" before the universe existed. And I've certainly offered my share of suggestions on this topic. But I want to focus on the other part of that line, about the Plates being "shards" of the universe, in light of recent changes.

In the post-game of SM, it is suggested that Z-Power is the energy that pours out of Ultra Wormholes. Ultra Beasts, upon entering the terrestrial dimension, surround themselves with the ambient energy from their wormholes in order to create their boosting aura. Additionally, the item descriptions for Z-Crystals state that they are a "crystallized form of Z-Power." So, in a way, it could be said that Z-Crystals are "shards" of Ultra Space - the raw Z-Power pours out of the wormholes and onto Earth, where it solidifies in the form of Z-Crystals.

You may be able to see where I am going with this. Arceus's Plates are said to be "shards" of this universe, from the moment of its creation, and they are infused with the power of "defeated giants." When you look at it, the Plates share a very similar principle with Z-Crystals - they're both items that any Pokémon can hold in order to enhance its elemental attacks. Except in the case of Z-Crystals, the power boost is far more substantial. But another, more important thing that they have in common is that they both work with Arceus's Multitype Ability. As of Gen VII, Arceus will change its type to be in accordance with any Z-Crystal that it holds, just as it would with a Plate. This works out extremely well if we think of Z-Crystals as being "shards" of Ultra Space, akin to the Plates being "shards" of the material universe.

(With that in mind, I wonder if the Adamant, Lustrous, and Griseous Orbs - which all operate exactly like Plates but specifically for the Sinnoh dragons' STAB moves - could be considered the material universe's version of individualized Z-Crystals like Snorlium Z and Tapunium Z?)

Arceus already has an Ability that is compatible with the manifested energy of Ultra Space. I think that retconning it into being an Ultra Beast, or at least, UB-adjacent, would be a logical progression from that.

Here's another idea. Maybe in the long-distant past, this universe contained the Unown, but the dimensions were closer together, and so Ultra Beasts would often spill over from Ultra Space with their Z-Power, and would wreak havoc. Perhaps the Unown, in self-defense, merged their own power with the ambient Z-Power in order to create Arceus, a being like the Ultra Beasts, in order to combat them? And so when the Plate talks about being "infused with the power of defeated giants," maybe it's talking about Z-Power - the Z-Power that was abundantly flowing from the wormholes back in those days, and was responsible for empowering the UBs that Arceus had to drive away. (I actually get a good chuckle out of this idea, because it means that the Aether Foundation unwittingly (or was it?) mimicked the Unown when devising a way of combating Ultra Beasts, since they used Arceus and its legends as a basis for Type: Full's design. In fact, the research materials that they collected from the Canalave Library would have almost certainly included the story that's inscribed on the Plates, since that's what, in Platinum, the historian hiker donates to the library after traveling around Sinnoh to learn about Arceus.)

Maybe when it's said that Arceus "shaped the universe," what's really meant is that is constructed firmer dimensional boundaries in order to prevent dimensions like Ultra Space from bleeding over so closely into the material universe (or rather, the Unown's territory).
 
Last edited:
Destroyer of Fairy, Steel and Ice types.
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
2,239
I don't want Arceus and the others retcon. They are better off with primal reversion or something.
 
Strongest Trainer
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
1,239
Reaction score
422
I agree with @Arceus the Dragon, They would just stick with giving new Primals instead of Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Arceus being Ultra Beasts, they could have some link to them, but not become one
 
Top